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Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.08.01 07:53:00 - [1801]
 

Edited by: Malcanis on 03/08/2010 13:35:20

Originally by: Malcanis
16 days since this devblog, and the ensuing player response.

Still awaiting the Transparent™ response with great interest.

Tarasina
Posted - 2010.08.01 09:04:00 - [1802]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Edited by: Malcanis on 01/08/2010 07:54:08
Originally by: Malcanis
16 days since this devblog, and the ensuing player response.

Still awaiting the Transparent™ response with great interest.



CCP staff must have an awesome holiday scheme. Really, I'm jealous.


How so? I don't know about Iceland but where I am from, we have 5 weeks per year of vacation.

US has 2?

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.08.01 09:33:00 - [1803]
 

Yeah I get 25 days, but I have to make sure someone is available to cover my workload while I'm away. Getting a day off is pretty easy. Longer holidays are exponentially harder to arrange.

Of course, I'm in daily contact with my customers, and our whole organisational structure is devoted to making sure that they get as close to exactly what they want as is humanly possible, or failing that, an immediate report of exactly what we're failing on, why, and for how long.

Ressiv
Massive PVPness
Posted - 2010.08.01 21:28:00 - [1804]
 

You can make that kinda comparison when CCP charges you per hour, what they charge you for 2 months now.

They dont charge us for answering questions that have in most cases already been answered, or can not be answered due to how software development works.

A lot of stuff that people are going on about is 10/10 trolling gone rampant. Other things have been answered, but not how people would have liked it.

CCP as well as the playerbase are aware that LAG makes it unplayable at times. Not fixing that would probably drive a lot of people to leave the game, if only for a while.

That would in turn make a mess of Dust, as an empty world to connect to, how cool is that Rolling Eyes

Thinking that CCP is not aware or serious about the issues that they are facing atm is not using your brain, or only using it selective.

Demanding that they explain to us, holy players of EVE, when they will fart and what smell they are aiming for, and how they try to accomplish that, in order to please the NERD-factor in some of us, or just because we are used to getting things done how we command them, is surprisingly childish for a community that prides itself for how much smarter then the 'whining gb2w carebear rockhumping n00blets' they are that they often picture in wow or other mmo's, but bear very close resemblance to.

Now shutup already and train patience to lvl5.

Jiks
Caldari
Prophets of Doom
Posted - 2010.08.01 22:24:00 - [1805]
 

Quote:
Thinking that CCP is not aware or serious about the issues that they are facing atm is not using your brain, or only using it selective.


The reason there is a 61 page thread is because CCP, via Zulupark's blog, have stated clearly what resources they are dedicating to fixing these issues and what resources they are spending on other things. Most people appear to believe that the fixing of Eve and indeed Eve in general requires more support and there has not been anything coherent coming from the CCP bunker to reassure. Don't mistake genuine concern for trolling, the difference is fairly obvious I would have thought...

Gogela
Freeport Exploration
Posted - 2010.08.02 00:23:00 - [1806]
 

Originally by: Ressiv
Now shutup already and train patience to lvl5.


This.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.08.02 04:42:00 - [1807]
 

Edited by: Malcanis on 02/08/2010 04:42:42
Originally by: Ressiv
You can make that kinda comparison when CCP charges you per hour, what they charge you for 2 months now.

They dont charge us for answering questions that have in most cases already been answered, or can not be answered due to how software development works.

A lot of stuff that people are going on about is 10/10 trolling gone rampant. Other things have been answered, but not how people would have liked it.

CCP as well as the playerbase are aware that LAG makes it unplayable at times. Not fixing that would probably drive a lot of people to leave the game, if only for a while.

That would in turn make a mess of Dust, as an empty world to connect to, how cool is that Rolling Eyes

Thinking that CCP is not aware or serious about the issues that they are facing atm is not using your brain, or only using it selective.

Demanding that they explain to us, holy players of EVE, when they will fart and what smell they are aiming for, and how they try to accomplish that, in order to please the NERD-factor in some of us, or just because we are used to getting things done how we command them, is surprisingly childish for a community that prides itself for how much smarter then the 'whining gb2w carebear rockhumping n00blets' they are that they often picture in wow or other mmo's, but bear very close resemblance to.

Now shutup already and train patience to lvl5.


You have a fine turn of phrase. I will use it the next time I'm asked to send a shortage report, and then I'll get back to you on how it turned out.

Oh and by the way:

Originally by: Malcanis
17 days since this devblog, and the ensuing player response.

Still awaiting the Transparent™ response with great interest.

Franga
NQX Innovations
Posted - 2010.08.02 07:29:00 - [1808]
 

Moar dev blog, kthxploxbai.

Hya Bam
Minmatar
It's Hammer Time
Posted - 2010.08.02 07:56:00 - [1809]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
The root of the issue here isn't the lag or the bugs or the aim towards a space theme park with incarna and dust.

The issue is with the inflexible distribution of development resources, leaving only a minor amount to fix the broken parts existing right now for adding more new features that will only add to the pile.

The issue is with CCP on one side claiming they value the CSM and on the other hand failing to have even a single developer dedicated to the ever growing backlog of accepted CSM propositions.

The issue is with leaving old features half finished or bare bones and then jumping to the next, falling for their own hype how unpolished shallow gameplay is yielding more profits than creating a whole, deep, coherent and immersive gaming experience.

The issue is with CCP throwing up smoke and mirrors from the PR team to distract from the issues at hand in an attempt to make the players belief the small fixes they're putting in are the solution to all those issues.


CCP needs to rethink its development strategy. Right now it's doing its best to overextend itself and have the game fall apart at its core, overladen with weak features that cannot sustain interest of the new players they hope to attract. It's like trying to keep someone with a belly wound alive by pouring in more blood to make up for the loss from the wound. It won't help if you don't stitch him up.

Right now, every core feature and profession can use several more iterations to add more detail, variety, options and choices to them. That does not mean, cutting something off and replacing it with something more shiny but equally shallow.

Every feature in EVE should be fleshed out deep enough that you can take the average WoW-tard and drown him in it.


Until CCP reevaluates its strategies and takes a less self-destructive course, I will stay away from EVE. Words and promises are not enough, actions speak louder than any marketing hype can. EVE has so much potential, I hate to see it all go to waste like that.

Quoting this mostly for the hilarious fact that it has been quoted quite a few times since it was posted, and everyone seems to agree with it.

As for the inflexible distribution of resources, CCP uses scrum teams precisely for their flexibility.

As for the dedicated developers issue, every developer and programmer is dedicated 20% to fixing old issues and bugs, and they do have people working on other projects besides the ones listed in the blog post.

As for the PR team smoke and mirrors bit, I would hardly see CCP Explorer as a PR lackey trying to calm down the riotous forum posters.

As for how shallow EVE is, I find it very deep, but if you find it shallow, that would be your opinion (not fact).

I think that their development strategy could use some work, but, to steal your analogy, stitching the guy up and waiting for the wound to heal before giving him more blood won't work either; balance is needed between bug fixes (good), iterating features (lacking), and new features (currently going overboard).

As for the professions in EVE, yes, some could use some work, but some are perfectly fine, so stay away from blanket statements there.

And it is in the interest of CCP, as a business, to have a certain amount of simplicity in their product to draw people into the more complicated aspects of EVE; while you should be able to drown inferior MMO players in the complexity, there should be some things that are basic and intuitive.

So while there is room for improvement, it is hardly the end of the universe scenario that you play it out to be. Even if you think CCP is so into PR and hyping up new products, and are ignoring the players posting in the forums, they can't ignore a loss in subscriptions. Threats mean nothing without the follow through.

Stabin
Caldari
Posted - 2010.08.02 10:17:00 - [1810]
 

Originally by: Ressiv

Demanding that they explain to us, holy players of EVE, when they will fart and what smell they are aiming for, and how they try to accomplish that, in order to please the NERD-factor in some of us, or just because we are used to getting things done how we command them, is surprisingly childish for a community that prides itself for how much smarter then the 'whining gb2w carebear rockhumping n00blets' they are that they often picture in wow or other mmo's, but bear very close resemblance to.

Now shutup already and train patience to lvl5.


My heartfelt apologizes for having held this company back for all these years.

linedash
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2010.08.02 15:13:00 - [1811]
 

+1 on waiting for reply from ccp - the allocation of resources and devtime will directly affect if I bother resubbing or not.

Yeay Fritg
Caldari
Confrerie de Kaedri
Cluster Of Rebirth
Posted - 2010.08.02 15:16:00 - [1812]
 

Dominion Bugs

Hello,

I still have a Dominion CCP certified bug waiting for a fix.

Do you plan to Fix Dominion bug this year ?

Official Bug CCP Certified Attached to a Defect

Yeay

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2010.08.02 16:59:00 - [1813]
 

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 02/08/2010 17:07:17
The strategy CCP is going to follow is (for the first time) leading 3rd party developers away from investing more of their time and money in EvE.

I cannot but remind how EvE-Metric.com's developer stated his drop of interest at keeping his expensive (he has to upkeep a dedicated RL server) and time expensive site (statement at beginning of this thread).

I am also adding to his voice for my yet unreleased and expensive "work".

As per Linkage:

"Current EvE's management is also deterring. The lack of ability to solve showstopper game issues affecting the end game plus the released news that they are doing so little to fix the past (and released news about CCP considering new shiny feature > less PR & marketing fixing the broken bits) will not kill EvE.

But they hinder the commitment of players and player-developers (see the EvE-Metrics.com comments about stopping to "care" and evolve the platform) and are forming what I'd call a "divergent MACD" (ie the indicator points up but it shows sign of possible trend reversal) in players expectation / "faith" in the long term functioning of the game.

In particular I froze all of the development I was doing taking it off my vacation and did not subscribe the *dedicated server* plan (read: high and lasting RL $$ expenses) I needed to deliver my services.
"

When the guys ready to shell RL bucks and months of man work time into EvE's 3rd party sites / software stop caring or believing in CCP's direction, it's a telltale sign of game aging and fracture with the vision seen by CCP's brass.

Even if such guys had no factual and objective reason to believe so, a lack of credible statements off CCP are demotivating them like the game indeed was put on the backburner and beginning to decline.


Edit: I played many MMOs. One of the first signs of an healthy game are a forest of constantly updated 3rd party software and sites about it.
Ready to decline games start with sites that return blank pages, apps that are not maintained any more (so a pair of game patches makes them useless / broken).
What if you started seeing EFT or EvEMon not starting any more? What if Battleclinic put EvE in maintenance mode and stopped adding new stuff etc? What if EvE-Central closed up? What if a missioneer went to eve-survival.org just to see a "Not found" page?
(No, I am not forgetting Chribba's sites but if he ever closed down his sites I'd take it as a sign of EvE going under soon).

Cinori Aluben
Minmatar
Gladiators of Rage
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.08.02 22:18:00 - [1814]
 

I don't usually line by line peoples' stuff, but this just begged for it.
Originally by: Ressiv
You can make that kinda comparison when CCP charges you per hour, what they charge you for 2 months now.

Ever heard of class-action? (300,000accts x $15/mo)/(40hrs/wk*4.5wks/mo avg) = $25,000/hr [[depending on the strength of the euro vs dollar ofcourse]]. As a united group, this company gets a pretty damn good penny from us per hour.

They dont charge us for answering questions that have in most cases already been answered, or can not be answered due to how software development works.

It's not just about answering questions, it's about understanding and communicating with their client, and delivering what is actually desired vs what is perceived to be desired.

A lot of stuff that people are going on about is 10/10 trolling gone rampant. Other things have been answered, but not how people would have liked it.

So by your definition, dissention = trolling? Then plz describe your own post.

CCP as well as the playerbase are aware that LAG makes it unplayable at times. Not fixing that would probably drive a lot of people to leave the game, if only for a while.

Agreed. I even told people this in my CSM campaign, that nothing any one CSM rep can do will change the prioritization of the CCP in this regard. That doesn't take any amount of intensity from the feelings thereto however.

That would in turn make a mess of Dust, as an empty world to connect to, how cool is that Rolling Eyes

Thus part of our concern, that they'll ride their bike to the circus, but by the time they get there, the circus will have already picked up its tent stakes.

Thinking that CCP is not aware or serious about the issues that they are facing atm is not using your brain, or only using it selective.

No one says they're not aware. They ARE aware, that's a certainty, and in fact the more serious cause for concern. It's about how their choosing to (not) respond, or failing when they try (LAG - see the past few devblogs about this issue specifically).

Demanding that they explain to us, holy players of EVE, when they will fart and what smell they are aiming for, and how they try to accomplish that, in order to please the NERD-factor in some of us, or just because we are used to getting things done how we command them, is surprisingly childish for a community that prides itself for how much smarter then the 'whining gb2w carebear rockhumping n00blets' they are that they often picture in wow or other mmo's, but bear very close resemblance to.

This is conceded, as it is true that we demand the very same excellence that any other developer would provide. However, in contrast it has also been noted that CCP has generally in the past been more transparent than companies such as Blizzard and SOE.

Now shutup already and train patience to lvl5.

I chose critical thinking 5, patience 5 is in the queue tho Wink



Your response was increasingly naive the more I read, and showed very obvious signs of MMO hypnosis. I appreciate your loyalty to the game, and believe I share it, but we're simply trying to be honest with CCP before we just up and bail. We love the game just as much as you do, we just have concerns. The rudeness is not required.

Kunaria Harrington
Posted - 2010.08.02 23:03:00 - [1815]
 

Edited by: Kunaria Harrington on 02/08/2010 23:07:14
Originally by: Hya Bam
Originally by: Abrazzar
The root of the issue here isn't the lag or the bugs or the aim towards a space theme park with incarna and dust... (snip)


Quoting this mostly for the hilarious fact that it has been quoted quite a few times since it was posted, and everyone seems to agree with it.

As for the inflexible distribution of resources, CCP uses scrum teams precisely for their flexibility.

As for the dedicated developers issue, every developer and programmer is dedicated 20% to fixing old issues and bugs, and they do have people working on other projects besides the ones listed in the blog post.

As for the PR team smoke and mirrors bit, I would hardly see CCP Explorer as a PR lackey trying to calm down the riotous forum posters.

As for how shallow EVE is, I find it very deep, but if you find it shallow, that would be your opinion (not fact).

I think that their development strategy could use some work, but, to steal your analogy, stitching the guy up and waiting for the wound to heal before giving him more blood won't work either; balance is needed between bug fixes (good), iterating features (lacking), and new features (currently going overboard).

As for the professions in EVE, yes, some could use some work, but some are perfectly fine, so stay away from blanket statements there.

And it is in the interest of CCP, as a business, to have a certain amount of simplicity in their product to draw people into the more complicated aspects of EVE; while you should be able to drown inferior MMO players in the complexity, there should be some things that are basic and intuitive.

So while there is room for improvement, it is hardly the end of the universe scenario that you play it out to be. Even if you think CCP is so into PR and hyping up new products, and are ignoring the players posting in the forums, they can't ignore a loss in subscriptions. Threats mean nothing without the follow through.


Though I agree with most of what Abrazzar had to say I took the same issues as you.

The other issue -I feel- CCP has is communication problems, examples:

1- When CCP announced that the CSM would be given stakeholder status they did not define the term. This left the CSM and the general player base to make assumptions that were latter found out to be wrong, causing an uproar.

If CCP had, at least to the CSM, defined exactly what the "stakeholder" status was then these assumptions could have been nipped in the bud.


2- Incarna. Maybe a surprise to CCP, but the general EVE player base isn't excited about Incarna. We haven't seen any major updates to what Incarna will bring to EVE for a long time, Fanfest '08 if I remember correctly, so how could we be excited about it?

The lack of official updates on Incarna has left the player base to make assumptions based on what little information has been released. Maybe there will be more to Incarna, we just don't know. It's up to CCP to get us excited about Incarna by communicating with us what it'll bring to EVE.

-Assumption time: Since everyone else can make an assumption, here is mine. ;)

"Many of the fundamentals that need to be improved now were laid down by a handful of people a decade ago during my term as CTO 2000 – 2005 (I am currently CEO of CCP as of 2004)." CCP Hellmar

"Incarna

Most of the Incarna teams however (especially the seven that are on loan to EVE) are extremely specialized in either graphics programming or art creation. They could, in other words, not contribute a whole lot to anything else than those specific fields." CCP Zulu

From the statements above and namely the new ship modeling system Dev Blog. I wonder if Incarna isn't going to be a nearly total revamp of EVE's engine (DX10 or 11 support?) both the "Internet Spaceships" and the "Avatar in space stations".

This could explain the silence from CCP, the amount of 'artists' who are working on Incarna, the amount of developers, and previous delay/renaming of the project.

Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Posted - 2010.08.03 01:57:00 - [1816]
 

I think I would summarise the difference between Incarna/DUST vs fixing lag as follows:

Incarna/DUST might be awesome. But until they arrive, we cannot really know either way, despite what CCP will always tell us in the meantime.

Fixing lag will be awesome. We actually know this because, prior to it being unfixed, it kinda... was.

And "definitely" trumps "maybe" every time.

/Ben

Tarasina
Posted - 2010.08.03 05:09:00 - [1817]
 

Edited by: Tarasina on 03/08/2010 05:37:26
Edited by: Tarasina on 03/08/2010 05:33:02
Edited by: Tarasina on 03/08/2010 05:32:11
Edited by: Tarasina on 03/08/2010 05:18:43
Edited by: Tarasina on 03/08/2010 05:17:47
Edited by: Tarasina on 03/08/2010 05:10:44
Edited by: Tarasina on 03/08/2010 05:09:54
I'm reading about Scrum, how other game studios has experienced the Scrum-system.

This sounded familiar:

"It's easy to get hung up on the process rather than focusing on the quality of the game." - Anonymous

I don't know how easy it is to handle "the red thread" in scrum since you have 1-2 week sprints. I'm talking about the core. Core gameplay, core systems etc.
Feels like those should be outside the scrum-process.

Source: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4295/the_state_of_agile_in_the_game_.php

Check out page 2 etc, where the game industry devs comment on Scrum.

And when it comes to coding, I have an example from Simbin (I love their games, GTR1-2 etc). They have 2 coders working together but only 1 of them codes. The other one watches over the shoulder and comments if the first one does something wrong etc. Peer reviewed code essentially. The coders switch seats every day or so. One coder said that sure this type of development is slower than 2 coders coding away but the amount of bugs that get caught makes up for it in time. Something worth thinking about.

http://agilemanifesto.org/

Of particular note:

Individuals and interactions over processes and tools

Working software over comprehensive documentation

Customer collaboration over contract negotiation

Responding to change over following a plan

One last link, a video, Scrumbut

http://www.motionbox.com/videos/0a99deb71f13e2ca87

I assume CCP is well-informed of all of this.

Celia Therone
Posted - 2010.08.03 07:35:00 - [1818]
 

Had a couple of thoughts on fleet lag. They're very speculative but I figured it couldn't do any harm to write them down.

There seems to be a big problem with cynoing large numbers of people onto a grid that started in Dominion. In Apocrypha you could cyno 400 people onto a grid and play a somewhat laggy engagement. If you tried that in Dominion then your entire fleet would lag out and die horribly.

Thinking what might cause this I wondered if when you cyno into a grid the server might not, say, sort the ships present on the grid by distance and then send you the details of the closest ships first.

If in Apocrypha this was done with a quick sort then you'd expect it to take O(n * n log(n)). With a fleet of 400 that's a speculative 415,000 operations. Say those operations take 1 server minute.

Now what if in Dominion that quick sort got switched to a bubble sort? It'd now take O(n^3) or speculatively 64,000,000 operations. That might be 150+ server minutes. A couple of hours.

How might this have happened? Well, if they upgraded a linked library then the new version of the library might have used a bubble rather than a quick sort. It'd also be really hard to spot because diffing the code wouldn't show any changes (linked library with the same name) and testing with a few dozen people wouldn't show any significant delays because the O(n^3) only really kicks in as n gets pretty large.

Now obviously I know nothing about eve server code so I'm probably full of **** but it does seem interesting that this seems to be approximately the magnitude of the lag effect.

I could also see the fleet finder being guilty if it does fleet status changes when people enter/leave the fleet's grid. It seems like it'd be trivial to comment out any fleet update code and see if the servers still crashed and burned on mass cynos so I can't see how this wouldn't have been found already.

I guess the new sovereignty mechanics might cause it somehow too but I have no clue what they might be doing to do so. And it seems like you could rule that out as trivially as the fleet finder so again it seems unlikely not to have been caught if it was the culprit.

Ressiv
Massive PVPness
Posted - 2010.08.03 08:47:00 - [1819]
 

Originally by: Cinori Aluben

Your response was increasingly naive the more I read, and showed very obvious signs of MMO hypnosis. I appreciate your loyalty to the game, and believe I share it, but we're simply trying to be honest with CCP before we just up and bail. We love the game just as much as you do, we just have concerns. The rudeness is not required.



If there is one thing I dont have, it's loyalty towards a game or it's developers. At all.

The 'being honest' part, and the post you created, where not the things I reacted on with my post. I was adressing some of the people that have been in /rage mode for a while now, and stopped thinking while in the proces.

Yes, CCP gets a nice amount of cash from the subscription / GTC sales, but that money is not reserved in any way to get developers on vacation behind a computer and adress an issue that has already been adressed from every possible direction.

If you only read CCP's posts in the various threads, and piece all that together, you should have a pretty clear picture that says roughly this:

We, the developers, share your concern, but being in a corporate setting, there isn't all that much we can do about it now. We ARE bussy fixing the game, but atm, no dedicated teams are asigned to fixing issues that require revamping a system currently in place. LAG is the number one priority, but given the nature of fixing this, it will not help to assign more people to the task, as it wont be a task requiring all of their attention. We gave just about all private feedback we can atm, the rest of us is on vacation, hold your horses please.

The last week has just been a respawn of the same bullcrap about why people feel EVE has been/is going to be abandoned.

I certainly understand, even as just 1.5 y/o player, that it ****es people off to have to wait even longer after all the waiting some have been doing since dominion. That does not justify the way players demand 'action now' as if they all pay a lot more up to and including pamper service.

I didn't try to tell people to take their concerns, shove 'em where the dun don't shine, and take a hike. I merely tried to tell that some of the expectations are fitting for this MMO: out of this world.

I'm certain that in your line of work, the people on the workfloor are expected to communicate your managers line of thought to the client. No you say ? Then why expect it here ?

I lolled pretty hard at the critical thinking 5 .. didnt see that comming Laughing

MarcusMaximus Milius
Posted - 2010.08.03 09:37:00 - [1820]
 

Sad to see greed devastating a unique vision of entertainment (though not for the masses, but for those with passion for sciefi and a good portion of intelligence) and turning the coolest company on earth into just another money making machine.

If there are still enough passionate Capsuleers in CCP, than stand up and kick the traitors out of their management chairs or at least die trying! Else eve will die.

Racknor
The Salty Dogs
Posted - 2010.08.03 10:59:00 - [1821]
 

Edited by: Racknor on 03/08/2010 11:01:05
Originally by: Ressiv
Originally by: Cinori Aluben

Your response was increasingly naive the more I read, and showed very obvious signs of MMO hypnosis. I appreciate your loyalty to the game, and believe I share it, but we're simply trying to be honest with CCP before we just up and bail. We love the game just as much as you do, we just have concerns. The rudeness is not required.





I'm certain that in your line of work, the people on the workfloor are expected to communicate your managers line of thought to the client. No you say ? Then why expect it here ?

I lolled pretty hard at the critical thinking 5 .. didnt see that comming Laughing


I think you both have fair points.

After the last couple of years, I think it's easy for people to think this company has forgot them and is going to forget about Null Sec to chase easy dollars. There recent comments haven't helped it this regard. I don't see how a concerned player can't act under these circumstances.

Still if you really think about it, this game was built on the antics of Null sec. Also, it's obvious that lag is killing that part of the game and getting worse.

There is simply no way that Dust and Incarna can ever carry this game the way Null Sec has, and they were never intended too. This is a real problem for CCP and it's pretty silly to think they can't see it. Furthermore, it shows a real lack of commitment to think they won't address it.

I do realize they have pretty much been a horses ass about this, but to be fair that's pretty much how I act every time I log in.

Maybe patience and critical thinking 5 go hand in hand.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.08.03 13:36:00 - [1822]
 

Originally by: Malcanis

Originally by: Malcanis
18 days since this devblog, and the ensuing player response.

Still awaiting the Transparent™ response with great interest.


Cindjin
Posted - 2010.08.03 14:03:00 - [1823]
 

It appears they will be running a test on Singularity on August 15th. (Fleet, etc)
Will you all be attending this test?

Marcus Vorenius
Caldari
Task Force 42
Posted - 2010.08.03 14:39:00 - [1824]
 

Edited by: Marcus Vorenius on 03/08/2010 15:54:59
Edited by: Marcus Vorenius on 03/08/2010 14:45:17
Originally by: Tarasina

http://agilemanifesto.org/



you missed the important part of the manifesto - it's not either/or, there is just more focus on the left column (or right side of brain)

Quote:
"It's easy to get hung up on the process rather than focusing on the quality of the game." - Anonymous

sounds like "Anonymous" is clueless - it's not about process, it's about features .. he should just ask in the next Scrum meeting

so, what was the point you were trying to make with your post?

Tarasina
Posted - 2010.08.03 14:46:00 - [1825]
 

Originally by: Marcus Vorenius
Originally by: Tarasina

http://agilemanifesto.org/



you missed the important part of the manifesto - it's not either/or, there is just more focus on the left column

Quote:
"It's easy to get hung up on the process rather than focusing on the quality of the game." - Anonymous

check your own quote of the manifesto - it's not about process, it's about features

so, what was the point you were trying to make with your post?


Think about it. Any communication I see from CCP is mainly about technicalities, the tech or Scrum-process etc...they don't mention quality as much and it sure is evident in-game (we can start with the QUALITY of the UI and go from there).

Scrum incorporates features in the process, let's say 1 feaure is 1 sprint for example. Now that feature IS the process. But given the nature of sprints, maybe it wasn't all fleshed out or made with quality in mind (The quality the player perceives, not codequality).

Marcus Vorenius
Caldari
Task Force 42
Posted - 2010.08.03 15:39:00 - [1826]
 

Quote:
Scrum incorporates features in the process, let's say 1 feaure is 1 sprint for example. Now that feature IS the process. But given the nature of sprints, maybe it wasn't all fleshed out or made with quality in mind (The quality the player perceives, not codequality

the idea behind Scrum is NOT to do the analysis first and then start coding - you start coding when you have a general idea of where you are going. Then you iterate from there, working closely with the guy who knows what he needs. It has been discussed in multiple threads - lets take the discussion there.

Cinori Aluben
Minmatar
Gladiators of Rage
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.08.03 16:48:00 - [1827]
 

Originally by: Ressiv

The 'being honest' part, and the post you created, where not the things I reacted on with my post. I was adressing some of the people that have been in /rage mode for a while now, and stopped thinking while in the proces.
...
I certainly understand, even as just 1.5 y/o player, that it ****es people off to have to wait even longer after all the waiting some have been doing since dominion. That does not justify the way players demand 'action now' as if they all pay a lot more up to and including pamper service.

I didn't try to tell people to take their concerns, shove 'em where the dun don't shine, and take a hike. I merely tried to tell that some of the expectations are fitting for this MMO: out of this world.

I'm certain that in your line of work, the people on the workfloor are expected to communicate your managers line of thought to the client. No you say ? Then why expect it here ?

I lolled pretty hard at the critical thinking 5 .. didnt see that comming Laughing

Good post, shows your sensibility despite your counter-rage haha. Goodonya, thanks, & touché. Very Happy
The truth is, my personal perspective, I'm just hoping to regain my reason to invest my time (and money) into playing the game. That's all. And I'm seeing other people aligned in their sentiments. It is CCP's company, and they can indeed do whatever they want with it - we'll just see if they're willing to compromise what they want with what we want.

ollobrains
5th Front enterprises
Chain of Chaos
Posted - 2010.08.03 19:44:00 - [1828]
 

There are quite a few mass testing events going on, but so far ccp havent well theyve fixed mega blob warfare but it would seem a lot of the rest of the game is being left to fall behind in the development cycles

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.08.04 07:01:00 - [1829]
 

19 days since this devblog, and the ensuing player response.

Still awaiting the Transparent™ response with great interest.

MissyDark
Posted - 2010.08.04 11:07:00 - [1830]
 

Edited by: MissyDark on 04/08/2010 11:09:04
@all the whiners in the "Sky is falling" bandwagon

1. OMG Lag! - Well, I remember when 100 people in a 0.0 system crashed the node. It's waaay better now since those days are over and you are still whining. Get a grip, servers aren't made of rubber. Stop blobbing = no lag. Wanna blob? Then lag is in the package, take it or leave it.

2. Oh noes, ccp catering to new players! - You, the old players have more skillpoints, more money, more ships, more contacts, more knowledge of the game. New player has pretty much nothing. And you whine ccp wants to make stuff for them to do. You are playing the best mmo on the market and still whine.

3. Hate Incarna, this is game about spaceships! - Well, it is not going to be any longer. It's a world and CCP gives new toys. You are afraid of change, you don't like change. Screw you I like change, I want incarna and maybe some day Battlefield-like pvp on surface/station/ship interiors. Don't like it? Nobody forces you to use it. You feel nobody wants Incarna and think this is waste of development hours? It is not. Many people want Incarna. I think it is the best thing that can happen to eve if done right as it will expand my favourite game.

4. Fix bugs! OMG rockets! - There are no game stopping bugs, Eve works fine. Yes there are some bugs. Nobody uses rockets, it's useless crap just like gallente weapons. Adapt or die, wasting time on rockets is just that - waste of time. Incarna > rockets.

5. OMG fix this ship! - You have hundred other ships at your disposal and one that you feel is broken. Go fly the other ships, leave the broken one alone. It's like with cars - you can buy a Fiat and complain it sucks or you can buy a Mitsubishi and enjoy your driving. Make a choice and live with it.

6. Class action lawsuits
It's a game. Nobody forces you to play it. Don't like EvE? Go play some other stuff.

7. Forum rush of whiners
You fill forums with garbage and then whine it is filled with garbage. Go die.


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