open All Channels
seplocked EVE Information Portal
blankseplocked New Dev Blog: Iterative development and what's happening in 2011
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... : last (66)

Author Topic

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2010.07.16 18:56:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Sturmwolke
Moral of the story is, you can have hundereds of MIT guys running around doing something, but it only takes one guy, one bright spark, one ephiphany to solve an issue.
Very true. Very Happy

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2010.07.16 18:57:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: OwlManAtt
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Where did the remaining 200+ developers go as I'm pretty sure it was over 300 working on Apocrypha?
They returned to their projects after Apocrypha.
The blog post accounts for 142 developers. I think he's asking where the other ~150 went?
Yes, they returned to their projects, such as DUST 514.

Arkady Sadik
Minmatar
Electus Matari
Posted - 2010.07.16 18:59:00 - [63]
 

What is the best way to make CCP either look at an issue, or make a serious statement on why you think it's not worth developer time? Because the CSM is not, as proponents of Factional Warfare related issues have learned.

Factional Warfare has been in a desolate state. There are a lot of problems with the design, but even ignoring that: There have been bugs for a long time (the "ghost timer" hasn't been fixed for over 6 months, and bug reports get closed because they're not reproducable - yet FW members experience it daily; there are at least three separate issues with faction standings that affect FW a lot, but they are deemed "working as intended"). There are issues that mean that a great part of the playerbase can't even seriously participate in FW (complexes in occupied territory spawn primarily during DT, due to the way the plex spawning works; usually, in such systems, all plexes are done and gone within a few hours, and the only time you'll find plexes again is after the next DT). This has been deemed as "working sufficiently well", and bug reports get closed because this is "by design". I'd like to talk with someone on why such a game mechanic is "by design" - how would I do that? (I can explain the problem in detail, and give rather extensive on-hands experience on the issue)

I realize that FW is only one part of EVE, and it's likely a pet peeve of mine. But really, the only other part of EVE that is as desolate as FW is 0.0 fleet fights, and there we at least get told that CCP is looking into it. I understand that not all bugs are easy or fast to fix, but at least the problem is acknowledged. For FW, we get nothing. No recognition of there being a problem. When the CSM brings up the issue over and over again, we first get told "working on it!", then "nope, not working on it" and now "won't work on it for another 18 months".

It's kind of frustrating.

Rhaegor Stormborn
BURN EDEN
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.07.16 19:00:00 - [64]
 

3 too many teams working on Incarna.
1 too many teams working on Eve Gate.

Morphisat
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
Posted - 2010.07.16 19:00:00 - [65]
 

Edited by: Morphisat on 16/07/2010 19:00:45
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Viper ShizzIe
Thanks for proving everybody right about how much you actually care about EVE Online.
I care deeply about EVE Online and so does everyone at CCP.


I am sure most, if not all of CCP do.

It's just that there is Eve the spaceship game, that the players regard as Eve, and not the walking in station bit. Incarna is mostly regarded as Fluff at the moment, and until we see some sort of demo / devblog that says it's more than that, it's hard to swallow that you dedicate so much resources to something that is irrelevant to the space game.

Viper ShizzIe
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.07.16 19:00:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Viper ShizzIe
Thanks for proving everybody right about how much you actually care about EVE Online.
I care deeply about EVE Online and so does everyone at CCP.


Seeing how many employees you still have left working on EVE, it's pretty obvious just how much CCP still cares about the game.

Aerilis
Gallente
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2010.07.16 19:02:00 - [67]
 

Thank you for this, at least we now know what's going on.

TBH, we should've had communication like this from the start. And that winter 2011 expansion should be NOW, not after Incarna.

But this is a step in the right direction, and I applaud you for that.

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2010.07.16 19:02:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Batolemaeus
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Regarding client performance then CCP Blaze wrote a dev blog recently about the client performance improvements we made in Tyrannis.
So a blackscreening client uses 80mb less.
We are actually actively working on the "blackscreening client" issue (which is most likely a server code service locking issue as far as we can tell) and those code changes are being tested on Singularity. Currently we are analysing the logs from the latest mass-test that we held yesterday, 15 July. At this point I can't promise that we've found the silver bullet but we are working on this issue.

Ohmiri
Posted - 2010.07.16 19:04:00 - [69]
 

Quote:

...the EVE Gate developers are specialized web developers and don't have the background or expertise to performance profile the server code, such as the physics simulation and damage tracking code, in a fleet fight.


Are these the people working on the EVE API? Please note the support for enhancing the API that's being expressed in the Assembly Hall.

A correctly designed API would unleash the creativity of hundreds, if not thousands, of skilled developers to provide new ways to engage your customers and deepen some of the already deep gameplay. Perhaps real-time combat can never be supported, but all the other stuff that is currently shoehorned into a 1990's UI could be handled so much better, across platforms, including mobile.

Syekuda
Hell's Revenge
Posted - 2010.07.16 19:06:00 - [70]
 

Quote:
or my part, I felt the discussions were very constructive and I had great dialogue with the council members.

Maybe Im completely delusional and it didnt go that way at all, but theres definitely something broken in the feedback loop we have with the CSM and I will be working closely with them to enhance our collaboration. When two parties have such vastly different perceptions of the same event, something is wrong and needs to be fixed. We have some suggestions in mind and we will be exploring them in the fall. Im confident that with the CSMs help we can take this to the next level.


I don't mean to be insulting or just plain negative or just *****ing but do you mean firing more CSM Members that doesn't share your opinion ?

Why do I say that ? When I go on the forums and when I see lots of threads on "let go of Incarna and work on something else" dozens of time. I don't think its simply words throwing in the air here. The CSM teams basicaly tells you not only to listen to them but hear them as well. True Incarna and Dust is cool and all that but with the number of problems in Eve-Online I think it can wait a couple of more months. We've already waited for more than 2 years already anyway.

I feel that you don't care about the CSM because if you did, you would of heard what they said and actually work with them in the first place. Right now (although I'm not in the CSM team) I feel you've left them in a locker room and locked the door so you can never hear them or let them talk.

iP0D
Posted - 2010.07.16 19:06:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
silver bullet


Explorer, is Zulu following this thread? Several of the questions he poses are answered or at least partially answered in various posts already.

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2010.07.16 19:08:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Ohmiri
Quote:
...the EVE Gate developers are specialized web developers and don't have the background or expertise to performance profile the server code, such as the physics simulation and damage tracking code, in a fleet fight.
Are these the people working on the EVE API? Please note the support for enhancing the API that's being expressed in the Assembly Hall.
No, that team is not working on the EVE API. There are developers responsible for the EVE API overall but then individual teams add to the EVE API as a part of their work/features.

Unity Love
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.07.16 19:08:00 - [73]
 

Firstly Eve-gate=useless. I haven't had a 'status' update in months. I think you have the statistics to realise nobody gives a rat ass.

Secondly I am dumbfounded to your resource allocation of Incarna compared to Eve. Where did you get this idea that people want little stick figures walking around?

Honestly there must be something in the water, you guys at CCP are looneys.

OwlManAtt
Gallente
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2010.07.16 19:08:00 - [74]
 

I appreciate devblogs that keep us in the loop. That's something that I have always like about you guys: you communicate things that most game developers would keep internal. I like hearing about Tranquility's architecture and your development process; it makes me feel included.

This post has exposed you to (even further) flak, though. I thank you for sticking your neck out and giving us this information all the same. Many people are going to strongly disagree with your decision to dedicate the bulk of your people on developing Incarna instead of in-space EVE. But I'm not terribly concerned about that right now.

I want to pose a question to you, and I hope you'll answer it. You explain your current status in the post, but you *don't* say anything about lessons learned from the last year of development. From our point of view, you have committed to Incarna and DUST at the expense of maintaining the rest of EVE. Honestly, PI left something to be desired. I understand that you intend to iterate on this at some unknown point in the future, and I can appreciate that Incarna and DUST are both massive projects. I'll try to enjoy both when they're ready, and with what you're throwing at them, I sincerely hope they are breathtakingly excellent.

But the crux of the issue: will you commit to adding so many major features back-to-back again in the future? I would prefer you to add something and then flesh it out further. I would like for you to go back and re-design elements of the UI, rebalance ships, and do other maintenance tasks on in-space EVE. If this means you can only give us one expansion a year (or less), I am OK with that. I think the majority of forum posters are on the same page as me.

I understand that you are a business and you need to continue to grow your customer base. I can understand that you see the 18-month plan through to the end. That's OK by me. But will this performance be repeated again in the next 18-month plan? That's what I want to know and that's something the devblog should have addressed.

Nomistrav
Posted - 2010.07.16 19:13:00 - [75]
 

Right, so, is the next expansion coming out in Spring 2011?

If not, can we expect a winter 2010 expansion? What new features will that possess? What fixes will that possess?

Better question: Ams our ships get further nerf Confused

Kythren
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.07.16 19:16:00 - [76]
 

Edited by: Kythren on 16/07/2010 19:17:24
I happen to notice a certain increase of :ccp: activity on the forums(other than just changing embedded images to links and closing troll threads) since CSM 5, it appears Vuks lube was either empty or he didn't use it on purpose, hehe.

Anyway, I believe that there are more pressing web-design concerns than eve gate, although it is a neat feature, there are certainly other things which would be far more interesting. You do not need ten guys to run this place, why would you need ten to develop it unless you are uberpro and made it absolutely maintenance free, but CAOD taught us otherwise.

also: did you check if connections actually get dropped if one node doesnt answer for a while, thus you never load because you arent in queue anymore.(that would be my first guess, but since there is absolutely no transparency in that regard(understandable) you might have already considered that)

Finnroth
The Guardian Agency
Posted - 2010.07.16 19:16:00 - [77]
 

Cya back in 2012.

Loki Nahat
Skyforger
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2010.07.16 19:19:00 - [78]
 

Fair enough, at least we get information like this as opposed to other mmorpgs out there.

Nice to hear decision making processes, resource allocation (and trolls associated) will forever argue about the distributions and nuances.

I must say, I'm always looking forward to the next expansion, I will play Incarna, and most likely will have a go at Dust514.

If I might say the various potential expansions, and the shear amount of developers you have working on the projects, little things might get swept under the carpet from time to time.

Just to say


FIX ROCKETS AND AF


NOWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Loki

Koshiko Murakami
Posted - 2010.07.16 19:20:00 - [79]
 

So no one working on 0.0? Really?

Mistress Angelica
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2010.07.16 19:20:00 - [80]
 

screw incarna, screw dust, fix what we have.

id liek to jump into a system, not bloated with lag as there are 5 peopel in there. id like my moduals to work.

i pay for a spaceship game shooting space ships, **** station i can not shoot

Darth Sith
Genbuku.
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2010.07.16 19:25:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Where did the remaining 200+ developers go as I'm pretty sure it was over 300 working on Apocrypha?
They returned to their projects after Apocrypha.


Apocrypha = 300 devs and arguably one of the best expansions released

Then you send some of them back to "their projects" and we got Dominion, arguably one of the worst expansions. This was followed by Tyrannis, the 'Meh' expansion that has striken the player base with carpal-tunnel from the farmville click fest and 1 whole ship update!

I have been playing EVE for over 5 years, gone through the ups and downs, the quiet summer times, the GM screwups, but I have to say this is the worst shape I have seen the morale of the veterans in years.

And now we have the guy that foobar'd the supercapitals promoted? That volcano did more damage then I realized...


[WTB] - those 100 devs back for winter expansion.


the op
Amarr
Rabies Inc.
Posted - 2010.07.16 19:25:00 - [82]
 

Can we get a copy of CCP Warlock's presentation at PARA 2010?

"Examining the effects of communication constraints on large scale distributed applications such as the EVE MMO"

Also when's her first Dev Blog due?

Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.07.16 19:28:00 - [83]
 

Great dev blog. That's a lot of scrum teams.

Mr M
Posted - 2010.07.16 19:28:00 - [84]
 

I know this is a concept that is really hard to grasp.

But if CCP develop a graphic engine for walking avatars, it can be used somewhere else. Like in a certain vampire game that we can't speak of. They could even lease it to other publishers and that way CCP will get money that they can use on Eve.

Dust will attract FPS players who normally don't have an interest in Eve. They will pay money for Dust and that way CCP will get money that they can use on Eve.


Genya Arikaido
Posted - 2010.07.16 19:28:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Where did the remaining 200+ developers go as I'm pretty sure it was over 300 working on Apocrypha?
They returned to their projects after Apocrypha.


Ah, so this explains why Apocrypha was the last -solid- expansion for EVE. You actually had the manpower to do it right.

Ceq Lysander
Caldari
Posted - 2010.07.16 19:29:00 - [86]
 

Firstly, a thank you for the communication CCP! The more the better! Please keep giving us information!

I do feel a considerable building anger at the priorities. The rocket explosion velocity re-balance issue, I find hard to imagine will take an entire development team months to complete. Why can this "Bug" fix not be done quickly when so many players are complaining about it?

Incarna - yeah I see it as a probably core part of EVE in the future, but I like so many others play EVE to fly ships and watch other ships (particularly poor defenceless haulers! YARRRR!!) explode under my guns (Internet SPACESHIPS!)

Reading the CSM minutes, and reading the forums is rather depressing, and the numbers published in the Dev-Blog is not reassuring.

How many players would accept a further 6 month delay of Incarna in order to get a more rapid response to server based fleet lag, FW, Assault ship & rockets re-balancing, UI improvements and the other complaints/bugs/issues seen to? How many would sacrifice it completely?

CCP - Your player base is screaming for these things, and you seem to ignore this and steam on with Incarna/DUST when there is so little pull for them. Most of us aren't saying you don't care about EVE (of course you do care), but that we feel your ignoring us and giving us "a tractor when our car is broken"...

Ix Forres
Caldari
Righteous Chaps
Posted - 2010.07.16 19:29:00 - [87]
 

Edited by: Ix Forres on 16/07/2010 19:32:36
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Ohmiri
Quote:
...the EVE Gate developers are specialized web developers and don't have the background or expertise to performance profile the server code, such as the physics simulation and damage tracking code, in a fleet fight.
Are these the people working on the EVE API? Please note the support for enhancing the API that's being expressed in the Assembly Hall.
No, that team is not working on the EVE API. There are developers responsible for the EVE API overall but then individual teams add to the EVE API as a part of their work/features.


In the interests of transparency, which you seem to be trying to move towards here, could you detail which teams have contributed to the EVE API in, say, the last year?

In terms of additions to the API we've seen _one batch_, that is for the calendar, in the last half year. Before that we got a useless mail and notification API added. Before that... hell, I've given up. The API is not being actively developed and CCP need to acknowledge that. I have tried to raise this through the CSM; I am the author of the assembly hall thread; but when you make statements like that, we need evidence. From a player perspective, there might be one guy working on the API part-time, and he's been seriously neglecting it recently. That's how much work we've seen.

Myself and one other person have been working on http://www.eve-metrics.com/ for a while now. We just released a major, major update. We spent maybe 80 hours on it each, so call it 3 weeks of full-time work from a developer. We produced that. The 10 man team working full-time on EVE Gate produced something that does a fraction of the work in over a year. The 'API team' has produced _jack all_. I'm getting to the point of having a total sense of humor failure and giving up on projects like EVE Metrics, which I put significant effort and financial resources into, for free, for CCP and the playerbase. What do I get back? This.

Edit: I am pleased to CCP at least acknowledging the issue at hand but this is not anywhere near enough and raises even more cause for concern and outright outrage from the playerbase.

Charles37
Posted - 2010.07.16 19:30:00 - [88]
 

Is there a timeframe for when the AI "fleet fight in a can" achieves true sentience and takes over the Tranquility cluster?

iP0D
Posted - 2010.07.16 19:31:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: the op
Can we get a copy of CCP Warlock's presentation at PARA 2010?

"Examining the effects of communication constraints on large scale distributed applications such as the EVE MMO"

Also when's her first Dev Blog due?


+1


ElweSingollo
The Higher Standard
Posted - 2010.07.16 19:32:00 - [90]
 

honest question here given that the schedule for realease of the minutes was as follows.

Quote:
This is the exact schedule for how the Minutes got passed around:

2 July: CCP sent initial draft of the Minutes to CSM
4 July: CSM sent a substantially revised and expanded draft to CCP
9 July: CCP returned the draft with mostly minor edits
11 July: "Approved for publication" final draft sent to CCP
12 July: Published


Why in the five days you had for final revision were you unable to realise how unhappy these minutes would make people?


Pages: first : previous : 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... : last (66)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only