open All Channels
seplocked EVE Information Portal
blankseplocked New Dev Blog: Iterative development and what's happening in 2011
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : ... 21 22 23 24 [25] 26 27 28 29 ... : last (66)

Author Topic

Digital Solaris
Posted - 2010.07.18 07:36:00 - [721]
 

Edited by: Digital Solaris on 18/07/2010 09:03:58
I am actually still waiting for CCP to sell me the concept on why I should even care about Incarna and EVE gate when EVE gate so far has been a waste of everyone's time and with Incarna around the corner, I wonder for all intents and purposes if the goal is to get players to socialize within EVE?

CCP.. dude.. If I want to socialize, I log off the computer, get up and go outside to drink a couple of beers with buddies.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.07.18 07:59:00 - [722]
 

Originally by: Epitrope
Originally by: Malcanis

One, Epitrope, has commented in this very thread that he has essentially given up on developing his very good, widely used application because he's been stonewalled by CCP for a year now. Other API app developers tell a similar story. Here is his post. The telling quote comes from the end:

Originally by: Epitrope

I don't understand this closed, everything-must-be-secret attitude by the decision-makers. They haven't, that I'm aware of, ever explained why they have this attitude, or even made clear who "they" are.





Hi. I didn't create EVE Metrics; Ix Forres did. I have nothing to do with it aside from being a happy user. From his post, he sounds pretty fed up, and reasonably so.

I'm willing to accept at face value the statement that there is no regret over the API or the data export. That doesn't, of course, translate to excitement over it, either -- I find the fact that no one will accept credit (or responsibility, or blame...) for working on the API recently to be a bit telling. Combine that with what seems to be an extreme shortage of dev time, and the result seems indistinguishable from an actual hostile attitude.

What CCP needs is another developer, like Garthagk, who is enthusiastic about the API and is willing and able to work on it full-time (without reinventing the wheel by changing everything over to SOAP or whatever). There is so much cool data locked up right now that we could do so much with, but we can't get to it. Instead, we get broken promises like EVE Gate being built on top of the same API that the players can use. It's so frustrating to wait and wait and wait (and pay and pay and pay...) and get so little back.


Gah sorry for the mistaken ID mate, it was pretty late when I posted that.

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.07.18 08:01:00 - [723]
 

Originally by: Kai Lae
Massive News

Seems word is rapidly spreading about CCP's "commitment to excellence" (you're smiling as you read that aren't you?). In the past if enough screaming was done CCP would reverse course. However IMO since incarna is required to develop technology for WoD MMO (IMO it's actually all about that game) I'm betting there is little chance of that this time.


Ahh... more bad light for CCP. As more and more of these not-so-flattering articles about EVE keep popping up, I'm not sure people out there will think about wanting to try out internet space ships. Neutral

Apocrapha had 300 developers. Now we are left with 54 to expand our universe. Dark days ahead... dark days indeed. ugh

Srialia
Misfit Toys
Posted - 2010.07.18 08:31:00 - [724]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Why not, be a part of the solution. Let me list the available programming positions in EVE Software (note that there are more positions available in EVE QA, EVE Game Design and Core Software):


I don't see, "Decision Maker" anywhere on that list. The people in charge of development priorities have made it abundantly clear that their main goal is to generate new accounts at any cost, rather than retain existing ones. So to that end you have a ton of people working on new shiny things, which will be released at various levels of completeness as fast as possible (which these days apparently means compressing the "testing" phase of development into as small a time frame as possible). At the end of the cycle you have at best a pale shadow of the shiny thing you envisioned, and at worse you introduce crippling bugs because you rolled out a half-finished, barely-tested feature.

Let me be clear. I don't believe this is a problem with the people actually working on the game. This is the executives or owners or whatever you want to call them, issuing proclamations from on high, and the developers going along with it in hopes that maybe one day they will be able to actually make their game great, instead of just a great concept with a terrible game built around it. If I'm wrong, if the programmers are the ones making the decisions, then you should be ashamed of yourselves.

You know what I like to do as a programmer? I like to make things that work, that meet a customer's needs and even exceed them. I take a great deal of enjoyment from seeing a problem and solving it, especially if I can solve it elegantly. I would love, love, to be a part of CCP and help realize the unparalleled potential that exists in this game and its philosophy. But your leadership would never let me do that. They would want me to bang out large quantities of half-finished garbage all day, something that would give me neither enjoyment nor fulfillment. I would get so depressed coming in to work every day, knowing how much better something could be if I were just allowed to get my hands on it, and at the same time knowing it would never happen.

If I were already working for you, I'm sure I would have changed my nickname to CCP Sisyphus by now.

arjun
Viziam
Posted - 2010.07.18 08:39:00 - [725]
 

Edited by: arjun on 18/07/2010 08:45:55
the costomer relations of ccp are really bad. i am promoting an overhaul of the trade ui for a couple of years now.
things like the separation of the cancel-order and modyfy-order buttons could be soooo eaysyly fixed.
lag and the closeness of said buttons costs thousands of players billions of losses every month.
ccp cant be arsed. who the feck cares for incarna? ccps wallet does. those 7 teams on loan from other projects are THE SUCK.
fix your game before luring more peole into this game with idiotic avatars. nobody except ccp wallet wants more people in this game with the lag issues.

Takseen
Posted - 2010.07.18 09:00:00 - [726]
 

Originally by: Shinzui Khan
As far as this entire thread goes , I am personally happy to see so many different CCP employees in here replying to people's posts and trying to set things straight and getting ideas and everything else.

How many companies actually have as much contact with their customers as CCP does when it comes to the mmo world? I personally haven't seen any. And I have been playing mmo's since 1999 during the Everquest and Ultima Online days, hell I have played EQ , EQ2 , UO , LoTRO , WoW , AoC , Warhammer , Shaiya , Aion , Lineage 1 and 2 , and countless others. How many of those companies would have allowed us to respond to a thread like all of us have and not give us an instant ban or instantly deleted our post/reply/thread ? I would personally say it takes quite a nice set of balls to allow your customers to basically thrash you on your own website. (and yes i said thrash , not trash.).




I wouldn't get too excited about the communication you get from the Devs here, since its almost always a one way affair, even with the CSM. Not having your posts deleted isn't much to shout about if you get the impression that they're unwilling or unable to address any concerns people raise here.

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.07.18 09:21:00 - [727]
 

Edited by: Tres Farmer on 18/07/2010 10:13:52
Originally by: Hoinus
All the people complaining about too much team working on Incarna and that it is not 3x as important needs to realize Incarna is pretty much adding another "game" to this and is probably much more work than adding a few feature to something that exist already.

Oh come on.. this is old. Learn to read.
The people driving this thread aren't riding that horse.

This is about CCP (management probably) signing on a feature for an expansion, hype it up, put all kinds of efforts and visions into it, then rush it out the door with axed features that resemble maybe the 'must haves' and after 1-2 bugfixes right after it get's abandoned and never touched again.
Most of us 'Vets' have witnessed this way too often and got used to it, yeah.. we don't even expect anything different by now from CCP.
> POS
> T3
> Sov
> FW
> Corp roles/management
> Probing
> Epic Arcs
> PI (most recently we got told, that the team keeping to work on PI after Tyrannis was out would keep adding features to it, to make it Planetary INTERACTION.. what do we get? They work on the PI<>Dust link. LOL!)

What brings out the rage right here right now is CCP blatantly saying that there won't be ANY resources at all for the next 18 months to do even some little tweaking/buffing/nerfing/fixing to stuff. That's a new quality right there.
And we got the CSM.. they collect the opinion from the players, what the players would prioritize (well, the vocal ones that got supported assembly hall threads..) tell this CCP in the hope of some of it would be considered and added if not to the next, at least the expansion after that, just to get told that there is no resources free for this for the next 3! expansions.

What do you think about the skill-que?
Helpful, ain't it?

Ok, thats where we stand and now get this.
We will get Incarna over the next 3 expansions. And I bet 1000M isk that if this actual rage here has no impact on the workflow/managment of CCP you won't be happy with what you will get. After 3 expanions, featureing Incarna it will still miss some features you where told you would get and they 'will add them in a future expansion soon(TM)'.
Welcome to the club of 'Vets' (in 18 months).

Morkus Rex
Solar Spice and Liquors Company
Posted - 2010.07.18 09:23:00 - [728]
 

My few comments:

  • Incarna - I'm not interested.

  • Dust 514/EVE link - I'm not interested. PI has been very disappointing so far.

  • In-space features - Very interested! The PVE part of the game could use a boost.

  • EVE Gate - Nice feature, but I don't really need it.

  • The others! - This sounds like the most essential teams.


Kar Avon
Posted - 2010.07.18 09:23:00 - [729]
 

Perception is everything. CCP maybe saying that technically everything is good, but the current perception is that it is not. Would it not be simple to send a servey to everyone asking what they want eg:
Q1. Do you want Lag fixed.
Q2. Do you use Spacebook.
Q3. Do you believe that playability has improved/declined since Dominion.
Q4. Would you use Icarna/Dust.
Q5. Would you use Rockets if they were fixed.Wink

Yes, I understand that you can word a servey to get the answers want, but if as it seems that Zulu is unaware of the level of feeling towards this by the community this type of thing might open a few eyes.

Cryptkiller
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.07.18 09:38:00 - [730]
 

Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: Kai Lae
Massive News

Seems word is rapidly spreading about CCP's "commitment to excellence" (you're smiling as you read that aren't you?). In the past if enough screaming was done CCP would reverse course. However IMO since incarna is required to develop technology for WoD MMO (IMO it's actually all about that game) I'm betting there is little chance of that this time.


Ahh... more bad light for CCP. As more and more of these not-so-flattering articles about EVE keep popping up, I'm not sure people out there will think about wanting to try out internet space ships. Neutral

Apocrapha had 300 developers. Now we are left with 54 to expand our universe. Dark days ahead... dark days indeed. ugh


The numbers in and of themselves mean little. EVE is a robust, well-developed machine that needs constant maintainence in order for it to run well. The issue is not (imo) that only 54 people are working on it as much as what those 54 people are working on.

If the teams left working on EVE have in-depth knowledge of the code, the issues and complexities of game balancing, load balancing, etc. then there should be few problems. As long as the teams dedicated to EVE are teams dedicated to fixing the bugs, the inbalances and broken mechanics that irritate and drive away significant portions of a dedicated playerbase.

To echo what others have said, just a few people working on long-neglected bugs, exploits, etc. and providing a small monthly patch including the fixes would go a long way to reconnecting with your existing (paying) userbase. Show us some goodwill, we will reciprocate in kind.

Cromo Effect
Pator Tech School
Posted - 2010.07.18 09:59:00 - [731]
 

Originally by: Cryptkiller
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: Kai Lae
Massive News

Seems word is rapidly spreading about CCP's "commitment to excellence" (you're smiling as you read that aren't you?). In the past if enough screaming was done CCP would reverse course. However IMO since incarna is required to develop technology for WoD MMO (IMO it's actually all about that game) I'm betting there is little chance of that this time.


Ahh... more bad light for CCP. As more and more of these not-so-flattering articles about EVE keep popping up, I'm not sure people out there will think about wanting to try out internet space ships. Neutral

Apocrapha had 300 developers. Now we are left with 54 to expand our universe. Dark days ahead... dark days indeed. ugh


The numbers in and of themselves mean little. EVE is a robust, well-developed machine that needs constant maintainence in order for it to run well. The issue is not (imo) that only 54 people are working on it as much as what those 54 people are working on.

If the teams left working on EVE have in-depth knowledge of the code, the issues and complexities of game balancing, load balancing, etc. then there should be few problems. As long as the teams dedicated to EVE are teams dedicated to fixing the bugs, the inbalances and broken mechanics that irritate and drive away significant portions of a dedicated playerbase.

To echo what others have said, just a few people working on long-neglected bugs, exploits, etc. and providing a small monthly patch including the fixes would go a long way to reconnecting with your existing (paying) userbase. Show us some goodwill, we will reciprocate in kind.


Could not have said it better myself. Currently any lag issues are because of massive fleet fights. Things like Incarna and DUST will move people away from these scenarios and thus alleviate the lag. People need to actually engage their brain to understand this concept.

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.07.18 10:08:00 - [732]
 

Edited by: Tres Farmer on 18/07/2010 10:11:10
Originally by: Janus Nightmare
We, the current players, thrive in a game like this. The problem is that there are so few of us (let's face it, even half a million active accounts is paltry) that CCP is and always will be limited in its resources unless it finds ways to attract many, many more paying subscribers. And that is the key item that I think many in these forums are missing.

Incarna and Dust are not attempts at dumbing down the game. Nowhere in any discussion I've seen has CCP or anybody else suggested that the actual gameplay of Eve is going to be simplified in order to accommodate new players who subscribe as a result of either Incarna or Dust. In fact, it's possible, although I may be wrong but I doubt it, that both Dust and Incarna will open up entirely new avenues of exploitation for current Eve players. But only if we want to. Not have to. Want to.

But since I'm running out of room, let me say this. CCP is rightfully taking the long-term approach to addressing the issues that are constantly brought up here. They are opening avenues to attract new players, and most importantly, more players. This provides them with the income to hire more resources, hire more developers, and quite probably develop new technologies that will, in the end, make Eve itself an even better game. The mistake we make as a community is believing that Eve is being cast aside, whereas I'm a firm believer that all of these things, Dust and Incarna especially, are designed to help Eve grow well into the future.

I don't know where you have been the last years, but with the income provided by the 'few of us' CCP was able to:
- buy WoD IP
- replace and extend the servers in London completely
- increase it's employee base to 300+
- start a EVE server in China (collaboration with local company)
So in conclusion, don't tell us here that 'just a few' 'hackers, scammers and cutthroats' don't bring in enough revenue to keep this show running.

Also again this whole argument is pointless, as we're here to talk about CCPs management and why it:
- runs a community feedback council to bring up stuff the players want to be addressed, without ANY resources at all to get this done
- pushes out 2 expansions a year, with axed main features right to the 'must haves', promising to deliver the 'should haves' and 'can haves' in a sensible timeframe and fails to deliver (chases next expansion main feature instead)
- leaves 'easily and fast' fixable content like rockets/market cancel button/probe recall button and other such tiny things on the backlog for YEARS

It won't be any different with Incarna/Dust/whatever.
Thus the backlog grows and we're back to square one.
Welcome to Eve in 18 months.

PS: About this "CSM shouldn't have a say in what get's fixed/polished in the next expansion". I don't know where this angle of attack comes from here. Never did anyone assume that.. well, maybe morons. The kick in the butt here is one step further down the road. It doesn't matter what the CSM brings to be considered as without any resources for those proposals in the next 3 expansions there was no possible consideration in the first place.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.07.18 10:09:00 - [733]
 

Originally by: Takseen
Originally by: Shinzui Khan
As far as this entire thread goes , I am personally happy to see so many different CCP employees in here replying to people's posts and trying to set things straight and getting ideas and everything else.

How many companies actually have as much contact with their customers as CCP does when it comes to the mmo world? I personally haven't seen any. And I have been playing mmo's since 1999 during the Everquest and Ultima Online days, hell I have played EQ , EQ2 , UO , LoTRO , WoW , AoC , Warhammer , Shaiya , Aion , Lineage 1 and 2 , and countless others. How many of those companies would have allowed us to respond to a thread like all of us have and not give us an instant ban or instantly deleted our post/reply/thread ? I would personally say it takes quite a nice set of balls to allow your customers to basically thrash you on your own website. (and yes i said thrash , not trash.).




I wouldn't get too excited about the communication you get from the Devs here, since its almost always a one way affair, even with the CSM. Not having your posts deleted isn't much to shout about if you get the impression that they're unwilling or unable to address any concerns people raise here.


If the level and quality of communication we've had this weekend were the norm, rather than an exceptional crisis management event, then we'd have far few problems all round.

Cergorach
Amarr
The Helix Foundation
Posted - 2010.07.18 10:37:00 - [734]
 

Originally by: Cromo Effect

Could not have said it better myself. Currently any lag issues are because of massive fleet fights. Things like Incarna and DUST will move people away from these scenarios and thus alleviate the lag. People need to actually engage their brain to understand this concept.

Erm, no. Simply put Incarna and Dust514 (Dust is another property) are aimed at a new pool of players, there might be some overlap with the old, but I seriously doubt that it would impact large fleet fight significantly due to folks leaving fleet fights for Incarna or Dust514. It might actually have an even more negative effect on fleet fight lag. More players attracted to EVE due to Incarna and Dust514 might join Alliances and join in fleet fights.

Marko Riva
Posted - 2010.07.18 10:51:00 - [735]
 

Edited by: Marko Riva on 18/07/2010 10:59:07
1- realise that EVE is a continuous process (and cash cow), so stick to it
2 - drop the idea of Dust, you're asking ADHD console tards to play a single game for like, forever
3 - put WoD on ice, pet projects are for when you have free time&money, you don't HAVE that time (especially not the money)
4 - fire your current QA leader or the people responsible for the ineptitude of QA, in fact fire most of the management crap, if you're not a coder, designer or gameplay vision guy, get out
5 - lol china, lol atlanta. Get rid of that crap, keep it indoors. Take the best of those folks (and the ones actually willing) to Iceland
6 - drop the "look at me I'm so cool&funny" devs, focus on getting **** done
7 - set priorities (I'll help you a bit, try this order; lag, SOV, solving features, getting rid of the #$#$ing silly&sad circular GFX crap). Use 40% of your remaining staff for that
8 - use the rest for incarna, because Dust is now off the charts PI can go fck itself for a bit, the basics work
9 - get the old devs back and ffs start interaction better/more
10 - STOP THINKING THAT BIGGER IS BETTER, that's just managers and investors (read: people with no clue) talking out of their arses. Stop having growth as a primary goal, when you do that all of a sudden you'll find that you grow anyway, and in a better way

Seriously.


p.s: put someone in charge who is capable of making people excel and is allowed&willing to be very blunt/open/passionate about every little aspect of the game, it seems like CCP has been lacking a "this isn't good enough, you can do better" guy for a while now.


Campfore
Posted - 2010.07.18 11:03:00 - [736]
 

CCPís decision to integrate Dust 514 with eve puzzles me. From the trailers I have seen so far itís the type of console game that if you really like it you will play it for a few weeks then play something else. Around a year later if you havenít already traded it in you would log in to mess around with the other 12 players that still have it. CCP are going to integrate this with eve?

Cergorach
Amarr
The Helix Foundation
Posted - 2010.07.18 11:15:00 - [737]
 

Originally by: Campfore
CCPís decision to integrate Dust 514 with eve puzzles me. From the trailers I have seen so far itís the type of console game that if you really like it you will play it for a few weeks then play something else. Around a year later if you havenít already traded it in you would log in to mess around with the other 12 players that still have it. CCP are going to integrate this with eve?

Some folks thought the same about EVE Online in 2003 ;-)

The problem with most shooters is limited support, I suspect that CCP is a bit better in this, still patches and content upgrades seven years down the road, heck still servers up that allow multiplayer.

Cergorach
Amarr
The Helix Foundation
Posted - 2010.07.18 11:30:00 - [738]
 

Originally by: Marko Riva
Edited by: Marko Riva on 18/07/2010 10:59:07
1- realise that EVE is a continuous process (and cash cow), so stick to it
2 - drop the idea of Dust, you're asking ADHD console tards to play a single game for like, forever
3 - put WoD on ice, pet projects are for when you have free time&money, you don't HAVE that time (especially not the money)
4 - fire your current QA leader or the people responsible for the ineptitude of QA, in fact fire most of the management crap, if you're not a coder, designer or gameplay vision guy, get out
5 - lol china, lol atlanta. Get rid of that crap, keep it indoors. Take the best of those folks (and the ones actually willing) to Iceland
6 - drop the "look at me I'm so cool&funny" devs, focus on getting **** done
7 - set priorities (I'll help you a bit, try this order; lag, SOV, solving features, getting rid of the #$#$ing silly&sad circular GFX crap). Use 40% of your remaining staff for that
8 - use the rest for incarna, because Dust is now off the charts PI can go fck itself for a bit, the basics work
9 - get the old devs back and ffs start interaction better/more
10 - STOP THINKING THAT BIGGER IS BETTER, that's just managers and investors (read: people with no clue) talking out of their arses. Stop having growth as a primary goal, when you do that all of a sudden you'll find that you grow anyway, and in a better way

Seriously.


p.s: put someone in charge who is capable of making people excel and is allowed&willing to be very blunt/open/passionate about every little aspect of the game, it seems like CCP has been lacking a "this isn't good enough, you can do better" guy for a while now.



So you want CCP to leave all it's eggs in one basket, keep being a small company, drop console games that are almost finished, fire half it's current management, close it's other offices, and ignore it's investors/owners (aka. not you)?

WoD is a good IP, perfect to launch in this market environment (have there ever been so many supernatural TV series on TV?). Dropping a property/game after years of development is a good idea? Closing down White Wolf is a good idea? You want to be tracked down and stacked by the Vampire LARP community? ;-)

Dust514 is an almost complete console game, console games generally sell reasonably well. More money for hardware and developers to work on EVE after Incarna and Dust514 are released...

CCP has the time and money to spend on WoD, Just because there are only 54+70=124 folks working on EVE Online content instead of the 300 that worked on Apocrypha, it is suddenly the end of EVE. How many folks do you think worked on eve releases 5 years ago. Just because you got a big ass release once doesn't mean that you have the right to that every time a release is planned. Heck, most MMO developers require you to pay money for the big releases, has CCP ever asked extra money for a (big) release? No! Now everyone is suddenly complaining that there are not enough folks working on EVE...

There is a dedicated team working on Lag, a dedicated team working on simulating lag, what the bloody hell more do you want. 200 developers staring at the same problem? I hope you understand enough of software development to release that it doesn't work that way. At a certain point you have your developers spending more time communicating with each other then actually fixing lag...

Lost Hamster
Hamster Holding Corp
Posted - 2010.07.18 11:46:00 - [739]
 

What I don't get it, as many times we see small gang fight laggy, which is because the system is not on dedicated node, so probably there is a high CPU usage on the machine itself. Then why not just buy two more enclosure, and fill it up with additional 16/32 blades.

That would mean that the average load would decrease, and the game would be more playable.

So please increase the hardware underlaying TQ!

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.07.18 11:52:00 - [740]
 

Originally by: Cergorach
There is a dedicated team working on Lag, a dedicated team working on simulating lag, what the bloody hell more do you want.

Just FYI, there should had been a team dedicated to add the features which where considered 'must haves' for PI this very moment. Stuff like:
- ecological polution
- planetary population
- trading on planets
The only team working on PI now is responsible for the DUST-PI-LINK.
Got it?

We don't want anything, except CCP to stand to it's words (at least telling us the truth what's going on) and EXCELL.
I want Incarna as much as the next guy who is sick of spinning his ship in a station, but I also would like that CCP does stay to it's words.

Cergorach
Amarr
The Helix Foundation
Posted - 2010.07.18 11:55:00 - [741]
 

Originally by: Lost Hamster
What I don't get it, as many times we see small gang fight laggy, which is because the system is not on dedicated node, so probably there is a high CPU usage on the machine itself. Then why not just buy two more enclosure, and fill it up with additional 16/32 blades.

That would mean that the average load would decrease, and the game would be more playable.

So please increase the hardware underlaying TQ!

I believe they are working on technology that allows for dynamically moving fleet fight systems to their own node. Throwing a couple of million against the problem in the form of additional servers might solve the issue, but it might create new issues with scalability (communication between so many extra dedicated nodes that do virtually nothing 99% of the time)...

Unawa
Caldari
Miskatonic The wee free men
Posted - 2010.07.18 11:56:00 - [742]
 

So many critical (constructive often, too) comments. I just want to throw my thoughts in, since a CCP employee has said that CCP is watching this thread.

I've been playing EVE for approaching 4 years now - so I'm one of those people that loves EVE for what it is now, and would keep playing without Incarna.

That said, I *really* want Incarna, and dislike the lack of hype-building, teaser videos/screenshots, blog updates, etc. More could be done here.

I am sceptical about the success of Dust 514, almost entirely due to the difficulty in keeping console players playing the same game for years. However, I am glad that CCP is trying this also, just to see if it can work.

I'm probably one of the rare people that are thinking "9 development teams on Incarna as of August 17th? I want more teams, and earlier start!" Incarna will immensely improve EVE if done right, as you already know - and there are many older players very much looking forward to this feature.

That being said, I would also love to see all the old features fixed, enhanced, and explored to a much greater depth than they have been. Faction warfare and Planetary Interaction, as two examples, feel like the starts of a project - maybe 10% of the way towards a completed feature. Still, I want Incarna first!

Also, I use EVE Gate, although so far it's almost just for evemails, and occasional looking up some stuff like characters or corps like I can do in-game. I think this will be a useful website as it is expanded.

Ebisu Kami
Posted - 2010.07.18 11:59:00 - [743]
 

Edited by: Ebisu Kami on 18/07/2010 12:06:51
Originally by: Cergorach
The problem with most shooters is limited support, I suspect that CCP is a bit better in this, still patches and content upgrades seven years down the road, heck still servers up that allow multiplayer.


Consoles may have HDDs these days, but they're still far from even beeing remotely as patch-compatible as plain old PCs are, so you basically have to have a finished and polished product from Day 1.
Expansions for console-games? LOL dude, LOL. An expansion for a console-game basically means, that the players have to buy a new game. Full-Priced, since it can hardly use the prior installation as like >90% of the required data are stored on a CD/DVD. Seeing CCP's track-record of releasing a finalized and polished product, I see a really serious problem coming up for Dust514...

Originally by: Cergorach
So you want CCP to leave all it's eggs in one basket, keep being a small company, drop console games that are almost finished, fire half it's current management, close it's other offices, and ignore it's investors/owners (aka. not you)?

[...]

Dust514 is an almost complete console game, console games generally sell reasonably well. More money for hardware and developers to work on EVE after Incarna and Dust514 are released...


Almost finished? Now that is a bold statement. May I demand any proof of your conclusion? Last thing I saw from Dust, was a simple video at Fanfest 2009 (a nice one, I need to admit). No tech-demo, no ingame-footage, no reference to it on the CSM-Summit and the fact, that CCP licensed the UT3-engine just early this year, after CCP China was supposed to work on exactly that for three years prior, plus the founding of CCP Newcastle are quite telling about the state-of-things for Dust514...

Originally by: Cergorach
WoD is a good IP, perfect to launch in this market environment (have there ever been so many supernatural TV series on TV?). Dropping a property/game after years of development is a good idea? Closing down White Wolf is a good idea? You want to be tracked down and stacked by the Vampire LARP community? ;-)

[...]

CCP has the time and money to spend on WoD, Just because there are only 54+70=124 folks working on EVE Online content instead of the 300 that worked on Apocrypha, it is suddenly the end of EVE. How many folks do you think worked on eve releases 5 years ago. Just because you got a big ass release once doesn't mean that you have the right to that every time a release is planned. Heck, most MMO developers require you to pay money for the big releases, has CCP ever asked extra money for a (big) release? No! Now everyone is suddenly complaining that there are not enough folks working on EVE...


Dropping a game after years of development? Dude... Incarna is the basic test-bed for the WoD-MMO graphics-enigne. Let me put that again, bolded:
Incarna is the basic test-bed for the WoD-engine and execution. We, the EVE-Onliners are the Beta-Testers for that thing.
There is no "years of development for WoD-Online" that could be dropped, since next to none of that happened as of yet. Get your facts straight!
And just to reassure it before the trolling accusations fly again: I welcome Incarna as an expansion and valueable addition to the EVE universe! I am looking forward to it and I am happy, if CCP can recycle it for more ways to raise funds outside of EVE (and yes, I'd probably even try WoD, if it blips on my radar as a quality product). But not at the expense of EVE development, fixing and reiterations.

Originally by: Cergorach
[...] what the bloody hell more do you want. 200 developers staring at the same problem? I hope you understand enough of software development to release that it doesn't work that way. At a certain point you have your developers spending more time communicating with each other then actually fixing lag...


But 70 people staring at Incarna is going to fix it from video to working in just 1.5 years? Good Luck.

Cergorach
Amarr
The Helix Foundation
Posted - 2010.07.18 12:00:00 - [744]
 

Originally by: Tres Farmer

Just FYI, there should had been a team dedicated to add the features which where considered 'must haves' for PI this very moment. Stuff like:
- ecological polution
- planetary population
- trading on planets
The only team working on PI now is responsible for the DUST-PI-LINK.
Got it?

We don't want anything, except CCP to stand to it's words (at least telling us the truth what's going on) and EXCELL.
I want Incarna as much as the next guy who is sick of spinning his ship in a station, but I also would like that CCP does stay to it's words.

Dust514 is going to be part of PI (on the EVE side of things), so that's part of the responsibility of a dedicated PI team imho. As for the other features, I would like PI to be somewhat more complex/interesting as well, but it isn't exactly a game breaker imho.

Marko Riva
Posted - 2010.07.18 12:06:00 - [745]
 

Originally by: Cergorach
So you want CCP to leave all it's eggs in one basket, keep being a small company, drop console games that are almost finished, fire half it's current management, close it's other offices, and ignore it's investors/owners (aka. not you)?

WoD is a good IP, perfect to launch in this market environment (have there ever been so many supernatural TV series on TV?). Dropping a property/game after years of development is a good idea? Closing down White Wolf is a good idea? You want to be tracked down and stacked by the Vampire LARP community? ;-)

Dust514 is an almost complete console game, console games generally sell reasonably well. More money for hardware and developers to work on EVE after Incarna and Dust514 are released...

CCP has the time and money to spend on WoD, Just because there are only 54+70=124 folks working on EVE Online content instead of the 300 that worked on Apocrypha, it is suddenly the end of EVE. How many folks do you think worked on eve releases 5 years ago. Just because you got a big ass release once doesn't mean that you have the right to that every time a release is planned. Heck, most MMO developers require you to pay money for the big releases, has CCP ever asked extra money for a (big) release? No! Now everyone is suddenly complaining that there are not enough folks working on EVE...

There is a dedicated team working on Lag, a dedicated team working on simulating lag, what the bloody hell more do you want. 200 developers staring at the same problem? I hope you understand enough of software development to release that it doesn't work that way. At a certain point you have your developers spending more time communicating with each other then actually fixing lag...



First of all, your whole post is one big straw man but I'll bite.

Since when is Dust "almost complete", apart from that they're trying to mix up a long term MMO with the ADHD console crowd, who notoriously switch from one game to the other after 1-3 months tops (that's why consoles and games for that do so well, remember). How many Dust players will there be left after, say, 6-8 months after release?

WoD being a good IP has nothing to do with it, the fact is that right now their cash cow isn't doing so well if you haven't noticed. Also the "all eggs in 1 basket" thing; that single basket has been doing well over the years, I'd use the "stick to what you're good at and is known to work" explanation.

The numbers you run on "working on EVE" are working on things that, right now, are not important because RIGHT NOW the game needs a whole lot of TLC, it doesn't need more PI, it doesn't need incarna. What CCP needs is focusing on their core product FIRST, and bling SECOND. Not the other way round.

Big 0.0 wars drive the game, partly because there's a whole bunch of people doing it but also because they affect demand for products, ships and whatnot. If you can't have big wars you have a problem. Fig lag, fix sov and the wars will happen again, increasing production and demand on items.

We're slowly moving into the Hello Kitty Online space simulator if the game simply doesn't allow for massive fights.


Deldrac
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.07.18 12:21:00 - [746]
 

So only about a quarter of the EVE online dev staff are working on EVE Online the space themed MMO. Awesome.

But hey, Factional Warfare is only broken and pointless, T3/wormholes only supports 4 ships, the sov system is both crap and entirely broke fleet fights, plus PI is the least interesting addition to the game since asteroid mining. At least CCP are focussed on what is important, pointless station bull****, integration with a ****ty console FPS (there is no other sort of console FPS), and irrelevant spacebook nonsense.

You guys crack me up.

Dzajic
Gallente
Posted - 2010.07.18 12:24:00 - [747]
 

Actually, there is lot of indications that Incarna most certainly isn't 2010 winter expansion. And devs and CSM reports say that it isn't either any of 2011 expansions.

Incarna coming earliest in 2012 is in full agreement with the "18 months" period mentioned so much.

I just wonder when is Dust coming out, because if its not on plans before late 2011 or 2012 why have people working on EVE - Dust interface at this time.

Cergorach
Amarr
The Helix Foundation
Posted - 2010.07.18 12:25:00 - [748]
 

Originally by: Ebisu Kami

Consoles may have HDDs these days, but they're still far from even beeing remotely as patch-compatible as plain old PCs are, so you basically have to have a finished and polished product from Day 1.
Expansions for console-games? LOL dude, LOL. An expansion for a console-game basically means, that the players have to buy a new game. Full-Priced, since it can hardly use the prior installation as like >90% of the required data are stored on a CD/DVD. Seeing CCP's track-record of releasing a finalized and polished product, I see a really serious problem coming up for Dust514...


The Xbox360 and PS3 all have relatively large HDs these days, installing a game on such a HD is possible and often preferred by gamers. Patching through an online service shouldn't be so hard, there are enough console games with DLC and patches.

Originally by: Ebisu Kami

Almost finished? Now that is a bold statement. May I demand any proof of your conclusion? Last thing I saw from Dust, was a simple video at Fanfest 2009 (a nice one, I need to admit). No tech-demo, no ingame-footage, no reference to it on the CSM-Summit and the fact, that CCP licensed the UT3-engine just early this year, after CCP China was supposed to work on exactly that for three years prior, plus the founding of CCP Newcastle are quite telling about the state-of-things for Dust514...


http://www.gamese****ch.com/2009/08/dust_514_footage_from_ccps_con.php
Looks like ingame footage to me...

Has been in development in 3.5-4 years, even if it takes another year to release date, I would think it's still almost ready.

Originally by: Ebisu Kami

Dropping a game after years of development? Dude... Incarna is the basic test-bed for the WoD-MMO graphics-enigne. Let me put that again, bolded: Incarna is the basic test-bed for the WoD-engine and execution. We, the EVE-Onliners are the Beta-Testers for that thing. There is no "years of development for WoD-Online" that could be dropped, since next to none of that happened as of yet. Get your facts straight!
And just to reassure it before the trolling accusations fly again: I welcome Incarna as an expansion and valueable addition to the EVE universe! I am looking forward to it and I am happy, if CCP can recycle it for more ways to raise funds outside of EVE (and yes, I'd probably even try WoD, if it blips on my radar as a quality product).


WoD techdemo earlier this year:
http://www.massively.com/2010/03/20/video-shows-ccps-incredible-cloth-and-hair-simulation/

Of course Incarna is related to WoD, whether it's a direct progenitor, a twin, or a bastard to the engine WoD will use is still unclear to me (would like to hear from a Dev about this). Incarna has been in development for years, WoD MMO development would run parallel to this. In 2006 CCP aquired WW, the WoD MMO was already in the planning stages at the time. So yeah, I expect already (3) years of development. And I suspect that the graphics engine isn't the biggest issue of an MMO, it the server side, the system (game mechanics), the story, the world.

Originally by: Ebisu Kami

But 70 people staring at Incarna is going to fix it from video to working in just 1.5 years? Good luck.


There has been ingame footage for Incarna (previously Ambulation) for over three years:
http://www.tentonhammer.com/index.php?q=node/620

Incarna is also a bit of a bigger system, with lots of subsystems, then the fixing lag. Not to mention of a search team (lag) vs. a build team.

Cergorach
Amarr
The Helix Foundation
Posted - 2010.07.18 12:45:00 - [749]
 

Originally by: Marko Riva

First of all, your whole post is one big straw man but I'll bite.

Since when is Dust "almost complete", apart from that they're trying to mix up a long term MMO with the ADHD console crowd, who notoriously switch from one game to the other after 1-3 months tops (that's why consoles and games for that do so well, remember). How many Dust players will there be left after, say, 6-8 months after release?

WoD being a good IP has nothing to do with it, the fact is that right now their cash cow isn't doing so well if you haven't noticed. Also the "all eggs in 1 basket" thing; that single basket has been doing well over the years, I'd use the "stick to what you're good at and is known to work" explanation.

The numbers you run on "working on EVE" are working on things that, right now, are not important because RIGHT NOW the game needs a whole lot of TLC, it doesn't need more PI, it doesn't need incarna. What CCP needs is focusing on their core product FIRST, and bling SECOND. Not the other way round.

Big 0.0 wars drive the game, partly because there's a whole bunch of people doing it but also because they affect demand for products, ships and whatnot. If you can't have big wars you have a problem. Fig lag, fix sov and the wars will happen again, increasing production and demand on items.

We're slowly moving into the Hello Kitty Online space simulator if the game simply doesn't allow for massive fights.


I'm not made of straw, I'm made of 'Bikkel'! ;-)

Dust514 has been in development for 3.5-4 years, so yeah, I expect it to be almost ready...

As for the attention span of console players, I don't know, CCP has (had) a way of inspiring loyalty in a way that is completely alien to most console game developers. I even suspect that a lot of EVE players will play it and will make sure there are always 'enough' players online to play with/against...

I have to agree that it's a gamble, at least it will generate income from the initial release of the game, and will give CCP experience with console games. If it goes completely belly up, I'm certain that CCP will disentangle Dust514 from EVE. A possible problem could be what you think of as going belly up, what I think, and what CCP thinks...

A single basket has indeed worked for years, but CCP has become big enough for expansion and big enough that it becomes dangerous to gamble your company, your livelihood, a your employees livelihood on EVE staying a prosperous property for the next 5-10 years. We've already seen stagnation in the amount of subscribers (someone explained it far better earlier in the thread).

Fixing lag is being worked on for the next 1.5 years by two teams, fixing sov isn't currently on the menu, but might be part of the whole fixing lag effort. Who knows...

A hello kitty space simulator sells to a certain kind of people, chances are that they will also need new things, maybe not space ships, but maybe luxury cars, etc.

I'm still not convinced that 0.0 warfare is the lifeblood of eve, but let's agree to disagree on that point.

I still see 350k subscribers for EVE online, if in six months the number of subscribers is below 300k, I'll agree that EVE/CCP is doing badly. What I'm looking forward to is the amount of subscribers six months after the release of Incarna...

Jack Coutu
Gallente
Percussive Diplomacy
The Phoenix. Consortium
Posted - 2010.07.18 12:48:00 - [750]
 

keep this thread up, the news sites come here to read the ****-fest that CCP is allowing to occur and is still not promising to do anything about. Contact anyone you know that works at a game or MMO site.


Pages: first : previous : ... 21 22 23 24 [25] 26 27 28 29 ... : last (66)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only