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Ishina Fel
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.07.14 16:35:00 - [1]
 

Now, people sitting cloaked in a system for hours on end is an issue that has been discussed over and over and over, with supporters for both sides of the argument. Frankly, while I am firmly of the opinion that EVE would be more fun without the cloaking feature existing at all, I recognize it as a game mechanic, and if people wish to spend their time annoying ratters by sitting around cloaked, then by all means, let them have at it.

However I've noticed a very disturbing trend:

It is becoming more and more popular to create alts for the specific purpose of dumping them in a 0.0 station system and letting them sit there cloaked all day. A recon ship, a probe launcher, a tech2 cloak, and a covert ops cyno generator - this makes you a major threat even if you never train anything else.

The disturbing part is less that it is possible, but more the way it is done. These alts aren't actually played for more than a few moments a day. No, they are left there with the specific purpose of simply just being there. Their presence alone is enough. They will be online 23/7, in every single station system in the entire region, and afk for at least 22 hours out of that.

For me, this crosses the line between playing the game and abusing the game. These things are to 0.0 space what macro miners are to highsec - mass-produced, afk-piloted throwaway characters that do nothing but ruin gameplay. Unfortunately, while macro miners are breaking the EULA & ToS, these guys aren't, since they're using legal game mechanics. It just happens that EVE does not actually provide legal game mechanics that counter this.

Therefore I propose a hopefully well-balanced addition to the game, which should effectively counter a cloaked ship whose owner is afk, without actually changing anything about how cloaks work at all, and without impacting those players that actively fly cloaked ships.

I shall dub it, the Tachyon Shockwave Emitter.

It is a starbase module. It would require a certain sov index (number subject to balancing) to anchor, and can be targeted and killed like all other external starbase modules.

An authorized player character (starbase password? specific roles? anyone in the corp?) can then access this structure and choose to emit a tachyon shockwave. This might or might not require some sort of fuel (just like jump bridges require liquid ozone), and can only be done every X minutes.

The tachyon shockwave emitted in this way will disrupt all cloaking devices in the entire system, instantly deactivating them. It will affect both friendly and hostile cloaking devices. With their cloaks no longer running, all previously cloaked ships can now be probed out using existing game mechanics.

Possibly there can also be a secondary effect of keeping players from cloaking (or re-cloaking) for a certain time, such as 30-60 seconds. Implementing such a function would give the module a role in active system defense rather than just being a way to decloak afk players who are not able to re-cloak themselves because well, they're afk. This is subject to game balancing and I'll just leave it as a suggestion, rather than a recommendation.

What are the advantages of this system?
- It provides a counter to a game mechanic that currently has none, which goes against the very nature of EVE
- It mostly works against people who are abusing the system while not actively playing the game, yet does not bother regular pilots
- It is an active defense, for those people who wish to fight to keep their home secure. It does not just disable cloaking automatically or make it tedious to fly a cloaked ship (like making it require fuel would).
- It is tied to the sov system, and is not a trained skill or a ship-fitted module. Therefore it does not allow random gatecamps to faceroll cloaked ships of any kind, or noobcorp alts designed to hunt down scouts.

Basically it is a module that says "this system is ours - afk here at your own peril".

darius mclever
Posted - 2010.07.14 17:41:00 - [2]
 

*sighs*

a single cloaker in your system really brings live in the system to halt? really?
maybe you should stop shooting that panda alt once in a while.

Amanda Tapping
Posted - 2010.07.14 18:21:00 - [3]
 

The idea would be great, as long as the cloakers could immediately recloak. If they are AFK, as you say, they wouldn't be there to press the button to recloak, leaving them exposed. People who are actually at keys though, would still be able to remain invisible (and should be able to).

I would love to see the system-wide blastwave effect that CCP would have to come up with. It should look really cool.

Balachura
Posted - 2010.07.14 18:30:00 - [4]
 

I have been thinking just the same thing, tho I haven't posted it, and haven't come up with a name like you did, grats for that.

My idea was similar to yours, except i took it into account that, the bigger blast wave you wanna produce, the more fuel would you need. I completely approve: this tactic is used and used over again, and there is no way to counter it.

Ishina Fel
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.07.14 18:31:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Ishina Fel on 14/07/2010 18:33:00

Originally by: darius mclever
*sighs*

a single cloaker in your system really brings live in the system to halt? really?
maybe you should stop shooting that panda alt once in a while.


Au contraire, my friend. We would very much like to START shooting that panda alt once in a while! Only we can't because it is cloaked and afk Razz

Also no, it does not bring a system to a halt; it just makes it extremely unsafe to operate in. It doesn't keep people from earning money either (we have plenty of upgraded places outside station systems for that purpose).

All that isn't the point. This is not about one alliance doing something to another alliance. This is cropping up in plenty other places as well lately, and as I described - it's a matter of principle to me. This game should not be played afk, period. I make this thread because I care about EVE, not because I am unable to earn money.

You are looking at a game mechanic that can legally be abused, because no counter exists in the game. It is the same situation as if, say, Caldari missile ships could launch missiles and then enter warp, and the missile would still do damage. They disabled that 'feature' for a reason.

darius mclever
Posted - 2010.07.14 18:54:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Ishina Fel
Edited by: Ishina Fel on 14/07/2010 18:33:00

Originally by: darius mclever
*sighs*

a single cloaker in your system really brings live in the system to halt? really?
maybe you should stop shooting that panda alt once in a while.


Au contraire, my friend. We would very much like to START shooting that panda alt once in a while! Only we can't because it is cloaked and afk Razz

Also no, it does not bring a system to a halt; it just makes it extremely unsafe to operate in. It doesn't keep people from earning money either (we have plenty of upgraded places outside station systems for that purpose).

All that isn't the point. This is not about one alliance doing something to another alliance. This is cropping up in plenty other places as well lately, and as I described - it's a matter of principle to me. This game should not be played afk, period. I make this thread because I care about EVE, not because I am unable to earn money.

You are looking at a game mechanic that can legally be abused, because no counter exists in the game. It is the same situation as if, say, Caldari missile ships could launch missiles and then enter warp, and the missile would still do damage. They disabled that 'feature' for a reason.


cloak comes with penalties (scan res, target delay, speed under cloak) or on relatively light ships. and as long the ship is cloaked it cant do anything to you. and once you locked it, it cant cloak anymore. so your claim "there is no counter" to it, is wrong.

but back to your proposal. the major gripe i have with all those "probe out cloaked ships", "anti cloak bomb/signal". they favor "blob the cloaky and then go back to careless carebearing".

and you got enough people out there who behave in 0.0 like it would be highsec already.

So I am still in favor of getting more creative to get the cloaky ship to aggress you. Or just ignore them. Rat in groups and such and make them leave bored.

True Sight
Deep Freeze Industries
Posted - 2010.07.14 19:01:00 - [7]
 

Its a reasonable suggestion I've thought of before, its difficult to impliment though, it shouldn't be usable in a hostile scenario (like for example when you know there's an active DIC flying cloaked towards your cap ships), so it would need to pulse randomly, and only once or twice a day.

The randomness would be good for the whole 'most likely afk pilot thing' but also less effective for the pilots who want to get rid of said AFKer.

Maybe make the pulse player-activated, but with a system-wide 60 second warning or something like "your sensors pickup a huge build-up in the sun's core".

Party Scout
Posted - 2010.07.14 19:28:00 - [8]
 

I would presonally remove cloak completely, and disable local unless you type there (like WHs). But that is another matter.

I kind of like the OPs idea. If the player is AFK, tough luck. If the player is on the keys, he can cloak back up (after the normal 30s cloak cooldown) and he can continue being an active threat.

I do agree the game should be played, and not AFKed. So also make mining an active profession! I can AFK mine, and it is boring and pointless. Does not feel like a game at all.

And no, cloak has no counter once it's engaged. The counters of targeting the cloaker, or getting close to him works before he activates the cloak. Once he activates, and goes to a safe spot on the system, there is NO counter. And that sucks, and does not fit with the rest of EVE.

Flesh Slurper
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.07.14 20:34:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Party Scout
I would presonally remove cloak completely, and disable local unless you type there (like WHs). But that is another matter.

I kind of like the OPs idea. If the player is AFK, tough luck. If the player is on the keys, he can cloak back up (after the normal 30s cloak cooldown) and he can continue being an active threat.

I do agree the game should be played, and not AFKed. So also make mining an active profession! I can AFK mine, and it is boring and pointless. Does not feel like a game at all.

And no, cloak has no counter once it's engaged. The counters of targeting the cloaker, or getting close to him works before he activates the cloak. Once he activates, and goes to a safe spot on the system, there is NO counter. And that sucks, and does not fit with the rest of EVE.


The counter to a cloak is the cloak itself. You complain that you cant do anything to the cloaker when he is cloaked.. but wait! He can't do anything to you either. Plus you get the extra added advantage that you have local to know he is there, diminishing the "covert opsness" of his ship.

I would only support such a module if they removed local. Then its fair because cloakers will truely be covert, and then you can attempt to uncloak them if you *think* a cloaker might be in your system, but then they would just cloak back up. As the system with local is now, you have plenty of ways to deal with the cloaker and know hes there.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2010.07.14 20:37:00 - [10]
 

I think that removing Local would be a better idea.












Laughing

Party Scout
Posted - 2010.07.14 20:42:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Flesh Slurper
Originally by: Party Scout
I would presonally remove cloak completely, and disable local unless you type there (like WHs). But that is another matter.

I kind of like the OPs idea. If the player is AFK, tough luck. If the player is on the keys, he can cloak back up (after the normal 30s cloak cooldown) and he can continue being an active threat.

I do agree the game should be played, and not AFKed. So also make mining an active profession! I can AFK mine, and it is boring and pointless. Does not feel like a game at all.

And no, cloak has no counter once it's engaged. The counters of targeting the cloaker, or getting close to him works before he activates the cloak. Once he activates, and goes to a safe spot on the system, there is NO counter. And that sucks, and does not fit with the rest of EVE.


The counter to a cloak is the cloak itself. You complain that you cant do anything to the cloaker when he is cloaked.. but wait! He can't do anything to you either. Plus you get the extra added advantage that you have local to know he is there, diminishing the "covert opsness" of his ship.

I would only support such a module if they removed local. Then its fair because cloakers will truely be covert, and then you can attempt to uncloak them if you *think* a cloaker might be in your system, but then they would just cloak back up. As the system with local is now, you have plenty of ways to deal with the cloaker and know hes there.


I totally agree with you there. Local really sucks. And it is part of the problem why AFK cloaking sucks. AFK cloaking would be no problem with no local.

The problem with the AFK cloakers is that they can do a lot at any moment. Drop a Cyno, and you're screwed. You cannot keep hitting the scan button on your combat probes 23/7, but you can AFK 23/7 with no consequence. Kinda unbalanced right there. You say don't worry about the AFK cloaker until he hot drops 3 carriers on your ass. Then it's a bit late to worry.

But yeah, I would make it so cloaked ships disappear from local. That would be soooo much fun, and give people some peace of mind.... Kinda...

Admiral Perimeter
Posted - 2010.07.14 20:53:00 - [12]
 

Cloaking having no counter is a myth.

A cloaked ship can do nothing to you.

Nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Not a thing. It is harmless.

It does not require a counter.

The ship is only a danger once it has uncloaked. There are plenty of counters to any uncloaked ship.

AFK cloaking is merely psychological warfare and is perfectly fine imo.


Ishina Fel
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.07.14 21:51:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Admiral Perimeter
Cloaking having no counter is a myth.

A cloaked ship can do nothing to you.

Nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Not a thing. It is harmless.

It does not require a counter.

The ship is only a danger once it has uncloaked. There are plenty of counters to any uncloaked ship.

AFK cloaking is merely psychological warfare and is perfectly fine imo.


Careful with the strawman fallacy.

At no point in my post did I demand a counter to cloaking to be implemented. In fact, I invested a whole bolded paragraph underlining that my proposal leaves how cloaking works completely alone.

The presence of a cloaker being psychological warfare is true. Psychological warfare is fine - that, too, is true. The assertion I made is not that I disagree with these points, but rather that the battle is one-sided. The cloaker engages in a form of combat (psychological warfare) but himself is completely immune to all forms of combat (including psychological warfare). In addition, he can do this without actually playing the game, and I can't imagine a single reason why this should be intended or supported.

He is therefore profiting from an imbalance in the game that needs to be adressed. The cloaker, upon deciding to go afk to apply psychological warfare without investing any personal effort, must in turn deal with the pressure of knowing that he may return to his keyboard later and find himself in an empire station with a politely worded clone activation notification in his inbox.

He can decide to take this risk, or decide to stay and actively fly his ship so he cannot be tracked down. He can also decide to sit in a sov-less system for the time he must leave the keyboard for.

Aerilis
Gallente
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2010.07.14 22:16:00 - [14]
 

Fully supported.

Hugo Smith
Posted - 2010.07.14 22:59:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Hugo Smith on 14/07/2010 23:01:08
Your topic name is inacurate. Afk cloaking is not a bug its a fully functioning game mechanic so "fix" is not the correct term. This would be more "Balancing".

These people who are "afk cloaking" are not using bots, They are paying for there accounts just like the rest of us, they are not bending rules and they are using the cloak mechanic to its full extent, which is to sit in a hostile system and scout out there infrastructure / movement of ships OR mayby he is just playing mind games with your corp by sitting there which in the case of you coming onto the forums and wasting X amount of time of your life posting this shows that he has succeeded(SP?).

If your that disturbed by a relativly harmless ship sitting in your system then go play WoW where there is no need for complex warfare such as cloaks... or mayby you might get a bit disturbed by a rogue?

Concubinia Scarlett
Posted - 2010.07.14 23:00:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Admiral Perimeter
Cloaking having no counter is a myth.

A cloaked ship can do nothing to you.

Nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Not a thing. It is harmless.

It does not require a counter.

The ship is only a danger once it has uncloaked. There are plenty of counters to any uncloaked ship.

AFK cloaking is merely psychological warfare and is perfectly fine imo.




Quite interesting this.

OK, lets take an example: A cloaker is AFK in a system with, for instance, about 20 asteroid belts and 50AU across.
The system has been upgraded to provide lots of rats and anomalies.
A lone battleship is ratting, either in an anomaly or a belt.
The cloaked pilot alt-tabs to his cloaky client, finds ratting BS on scan.
Pilot finds the BS, pops a covert cyno, bombers and recons jump in along with their black ops ship and pop the ratting fitted BS in about 30 seconds, safes up, gang bridges back out.
Cloaker goes AFK again for hours.

What are the counters to this?

Don't rat or use your upgraded system? -Complete waste of time/isk upgrading it.

Keep a defence fleet in-system? -Relies on undocking and warping to the attacked ratter in a very short amount of time, and keeping lots of people inactive but alert and ready in system 23/7.

Go ratting in groups? -Very low rewards, still easy targets, bombers will love em.

Fly a bait ship with help in space close by? - Any competent pilot should able to make a fair assumption on what is a bait ship and what isn't, and you can only effectively Admiral Ackbar someone the once before they get wise. Difficult to get pilots to participate due to possible long-term inactivity, and watching someone else rat and make ISK while you sit there cloaked and bored.

Fly in a group with a couple of proper pvp fitted ships / logistics in the gang? -Good luck finding pvp pilots who will spend their afternoon babysitting your raven in a home system.

Rat while alligned? -Not always possible. Overview lag FTL.

What would you suggest in this situation? I'm genuinely interested to know what a successful counter to this would be. Rendering an entire swathe of potentialy upgraded systems useless with a few throwaway AFK alts seems a bit stupid and borderline griefing.

In favour of the cloakers though, cloaking can (sensibly) NOT be trained on trial accounts, so someone is paying their subscription to sit AFK in a system, and I kinda think it's up to the person paying to determine how they want to spend their account time.



darius mclever
Posted - 2010.07.14 23:02:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Ishina Fel
Originally by: Admiral Perimeter
Cloaking having no counter is a myth.

A cloaked ship can do nothing to you.

Nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Not a thing. It is harmless.

It does not require a counter.

The ship is only a danger once it has uncloaked. There are plenty of counters to any uncloaked ship.

AFK cloaking is merely psychological warfare and is perfectly fine imo.


Careful with the strawman fallacy.

At no point in my post did I demand a counter to cloaking to be implemented. In fact, I invested a whole bolded paragraph underlining that my proposal leaves how cloaking works completely alone.

The presence of a cloaker being psychological warfare is true. Psychological warfare is fine - that, too, is true. The assertion I made is not that I disagree with these points, but rather that the battle is one-sided. The cloaker engages in a form of combat (psychological warfare) but himself is completely immune to all forms of combat (including psychological warfare). In addition, he can do this without actually playing the game, and I can't imagine a single reason why this should be intended or supported.

He is therefore profiting from an imbalance in the game that needs to be adressed. The cloaker, upon deciding to go afk to apply psychological warfare without investing any personal effort, must in turn deal with the pressure of knowing that he may return to his keyboard later and find himself in an empire station with a politely worded clone activation notification in his inbox.

He can decide to take this risk, or decide to stay and actively fly his ship so he cannot be tracked down. He can also decide to sit in a sov-less system for the time he must leave the keyboard for.


ok the cloaker sees 10 others in local. one solo BS on scan. mostlikely in a belt. so there are potentially 9 other people cloaked around that lone battleship that could potentially attack the cloaker when he decloaks.

<sarcasm>he totally has the total control.</sarcasm>

you know where the biggest problem is? in your head. you let him affect you.

XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
Posted - 2010.07.14 23:06:00 - [18]
 

lol BLAST

you guys are terrible

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2010.07.15 00:11:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: darius mclever
you know where the biggest problem is? in your head. you let him affect you.


This is what it boils down too, basically weak minded people.

Sigras
Gallente
Conglomo
Posted - 2010.07.15 00:25:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Flesh Slurper
The counter to a cloak is the cloak itself. You complain that you cant do anything to the cloaker when he is cloaked.. but wait! He can't do anything to you either. Plus you get the extra added advantage that you have local to know he is there, diminishing the "covert opsness" of his ship.


Gah! We must have this argument again! Again I sat, cloak is very well balanced, I would even say nerfed, and I would be in favor of buffing the module if there were a counter to it, but please don't confuse balance with a counter.

A counter would be something you can do to me that stops me from doing what I want to do; my X counters your Y. . . Here are some examples.

My warp scrambler counters your MWD.
My ECCM counters (kinda) your ECM
My ??? Counters your cloak?

Besides, it only takes one cloaking devoter to warp to you, pop a bubble and a cyno for a SC and three carriers to own whoever's in system. . . Rafting in groups only ends up with groups of dead people.

Now that things have been defined, I ask again, do cloaks have a counter?

Gecko O'Bac
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.07.15 00:46:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: darius mclever
you know where the biggest problem is? in your head. you let him affect you.


This is what it boils down too, basically weak minded people.


Afk cloakers aren't a big problem, but it is indeed true that with a covert cyno they are not really just "scarecrows". They can effectively stay at the keyboard for what, 2 mins a day? And still wreak a lot of havoc.

I have to agree with the op... The game must be played... A simple pulse that decloaks without doing anything else would be enough. Doesn't hurt players at keyboard.

Grarr Dexx
Amarr
Kumovi
The G0dfathers
Posted - 2010.07.15 01:46:00 - [22]
 

You know, with the tons of drops with our black ops battleships and bombers, I've always wondered why the hell you guys haven't tried baiting us yet.

Mike C
Caldari
MicroFunks
Posted - 2010.07.15 02:44:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Ishina Fel
Originally by: Admiral Perimeter
Cloaking having no counter is a myth.

A cloaked ship can do nothing to you.

Nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Not a thing. It is harmless.

It does not require a counter.

The ship is only a danger once it has uncloaked. There are plenty of counters to any uncloaked ship.

AFK cloaking is merely psychological warfare and is perfectly fine imo.


Careful with the strawman fallacy.

At no point in my post did I demand a counter to cloaking to be implemented. In fact, I invested a whole bolded paragraph underlining that my proposal leaves how cloaking works completely alone.

The presence of a cloaker being psychological warfare is true. Psychological warfare is fine - that, too, is true. The assertion I made is not that I disagree with these points, but rather that the battle is one-sided. The cloaker engages in a form of combat (psychological warfare) but himself is completely immune to all forms of combat (including psychological warfare). In addition, he can do this without actually playing the game, and I can't imagine a single reason why this should be intended or supported.

He is therefore profiting from an imbalance in the game that needs to be adressed. The cloaker, upon deciding to go afk to apply psychological warfare without investing any personal effort, must in turn deal with the pressure of knowing that he may return to his keyboard later and find himself in an empire station with a politely worded clone activation notification in his inbox.

He can decide to take this risk, or decide to stay and actively fly his ship so he cannot be tracked down. He can also decide to sit in a sov-less system for the time he must leave the keyboard for.


Actually you did suggest a way to modify cloaking mechanics, despite being a quasi-limited way.

What people must realize is that the AFK cloaker is not utilizing Psychological Warfare. He is AFK. The Psychological Warfare is completely contained to the local users' ends. The PW argument is comparable to someone who wants to have power recepticles removed from school buildings because their mentally ******ed (Sorry, but it's the correct technical term) son/daughter/grandson/grandaughter stuck their tongue in one. No, the problem with AFK cloaking is only that one realizes someone is there. If local was changed to prevent AFK cloakers from appearing, the AFK cloaker argument would be solved However, carebears would complain. Why? Because they want safety, and are willing to lie out of their urethra to get it (just not pay for it).

Put simply, what carebears (primary supporters of broken change to AFK cloaking) want is not to remove the Psychological Warfare aspect of AFK cloaking, but to remove the AFK cloakers themselves, thus letting them WoW it up in peace.

THAT is an example of a Strawman Fallacy.

Time to sleep, work in the morning.

Saelie
Posted - 2010.07.15 05:07:00 - [24]
 

An AFK cloaker is as dangerous to you as a ham and cheese sandwich, really. Except that you might choke on the sandwich, or the ham might be bad, or something. It's when the cloaker isn't AFK that you start to have problems.

Caldari 5
Amarr
The Element Syndicate
Blazing Angels Alliance
Posted - 2010.07.15 08:21:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Sigras
Gah! We must have this argument again! Again I sat, cloak is very well balanced, I would even say nerfed, and I would be in favor of buffing the module if there were a counter to it, but please don't confuse balance with a counter.

A counter would be something you can do to me that stops me from doing what I want to do; my X counters your Y. . . Here are some examples.

My warp scrambler counters your MWD.
My ECCM counters (kinda) your ECM
My ??? Counters your cloak?

Besides, it only takes one cloaking devoter to warp to you, pop a bubble and a cyno for a SC and three carriers to own whoever's in system. . . Rafting in groups only ends up with groups of dead people.

Now that things have been defined, I ask again, do cloaks have a counter?


The trouble is that you have the cloak line backwards:
My Cloak counters your probes :)

darius mclever
Posted - 2010.07.15 09:04:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Concubinia Scarlett
Originally by: Admiral Perimeter
Cloaking having no counter is a myth.

A cloaked ship can do nothing to you.

Nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Not a thing. It is harmless.

It does not require a counter.

The ship is only a danger once it has uncloaked. There are plenty of counters to any uncloaked ship.

AFK cloaking is merely psychological warfare and is perfectly fine imo.




Quite interesting this.

OK, lets take an example: A cloaker is AFK in a system with, for instance, about 20 asteroid belts and 50AU across.
The system has been upgraded to provide lots of rats and anomalies.
A lone battleship is ratting, either in an anomaly or a belt.
The cloaked pilot alt-tabs to his cloaky client, finds ratting BS on scan.
Pilot finds the BS, pops a covert cyno, bombers and recons jump in along with their black ops ship and pop the ratting fitted BS in about 30 seconds, safes up, gang bridges back out.
Cloaker goes AFK again for hours.

What are the counters to this?

Don't rat or use your upgraded system? -Complete waste of time/isk upgrading it.



rat in group of 2-3 people. 2-3 people are way less attractive than the solo idiot.

Quote:

Keep a defence fleet in-system? -Relies on undocking and warping to the attacked ratter in a very short amount of time, and keeping lots of people inactive but alert and ready in system 23/7.



Ratting in pvp fit ships? ECM drones maybe? heavy neut on the spare highslot.

Quote:
Go ratting in groups? -Very low rewards, still easy targets, bombers will love em.


really? works perfectly for us.

Quote:
Fly a bait ship with help in space close by? - Any competent pilot should able to make a fair assumption on what is a bait ship and what isn't, and you can only effectively Admiral Ackbar someone the once before they get wise. Difficult to get pilots to participate due to possible long-term inactivity, and watching someone else rat and make ISK while you sit there cloaked and bored.


baiting them from time to time, to make them take the losses definitely helps.

Quote:
Fly in a group with a couple of proper pvp fitted ships / logistics in the gang? -Good luck finding pvp pilots who will spend their afternoon babysitting your raven in a home system.


you are in 0.0. why do you need a whole gang to protect you?

Quote:
Rat while alligned? -Not always possible. Overview lag FTL.


sometimes you win, sometimes you loose.

Quote:
What would you suggest in this situation? I'm genuinely interested to know what a successful counter to this would be. Rendering an entire swathe of potentialy upgraded systems useless with a few throwaway AFK alts seems a bit stupid and borderline griefing.

In favour of the cloakers though, cloaking can (sensibly) NOT be trained on trial accounts, so someone is paying their subscription to sit AFK in a system, and I kinda think it's up to the person paying to determine how they want to spend their account time.


I am pretty sure that the OP is not complaining about a noob alt with cloak and frigate but rather about that falcon that is running around in fountain.

The solo cloaker in a system is one of the very few things that keeps people on their toes. but it seems most people dont want to be on their toes all the time. they want relax ratting like they would be in highsec. be prepared. dont rat alone. and the chance to get out alive goes up quite a bit.

darius mclever
Posted - 2010.07.15 09:09:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Sigras
A counter would be something you can do to me that stops me from doing what I want to do; my X counters your Y. . . Here are some examples.

My warp scrambler counters your MWD.
My ECCM counters (kinda) your ECM
My ??? Counters your cloak?

Besides, it only takes one cloaking devoter to warp to you, pop a bubble and a cyno for a SC and three carriers to own whoever's in system. . . Rafting in groups only ends up with groups of dead people.

Now that things have been defined, I ask again, do cloaks have a counter?


counter to cloak?
- fly close to it.
- lock it when it is decloaked (you can counter the cloak without even activating a moduleShocked)

what you dont need is a counter to the activated cloak. why? because he cant do anything to you. nothing at all. he is totally harmless until ... until he decloaks. then you can lock him shoot him, neut him, jam him, web him, .... if you are prepared for it. are you prepared?

Pra Etorian
Posted - 2010.07.15 09:54:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: darius mclever
Originally by: Sigras
A counter would be something you can do to me that stops me from doing what I want to do; my X counters your Y. . . Here are some examples.

My warp scrambler counters your MWD.
My ECCM counters (kinda) your ECM
My ??? Counters your cloak?

Besides, it only takes one cloaking devoter to warp to you, pop a bubble and a cyno for a SC and three carriers to own whoever's in system. . . Rafting in groups only ends up with groups of dead people.

Now that things have been defined, I ask again, do cloaks have a counter?


counter to cloak?
- fly close to it.
- lock it when it is decloaked (you can counter the cloak without even activating a moduleShocked)

what you dont need is a counter to the activated cloak. why? because he cant do anything to you. nothing at all. he is totally harmless until ... until he decloaks. then you can lock him shoot him, neut him, jam him, web him, .... if you are prepared for it. are you prepared?


I would add to the list of counters
-bombs
-smartbombs
-your own cloak.
-cans on warp-in points. Just use the junk from the rats you have been killing.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2010.07.15 10:20:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Gecko O'Bac
I have to agree with the op... The game must be played... A simple pulse that decloaks without doing anything else would be enough. Doesn't hurt players at keyboard.


Wrong, it does hurt the player at the keyboard, it will decloak him while he sets up a warp in on an enemy fleet.

These ideas are all the same, they are made by weak minded lazy 0.0 players.

foksieloy
Minmatar
Rockets ponies and rainbows
Posted - 2010.07.15 10:28:00 - [30]
 

I also have a simple solution for you if you are troubled by an AFK cloaker.

Move to highsec.
/thread


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