open All Channels
seplocked Assembly Hall
blankseplocked [Proposal]Fix Faction Warfare NOW, Introduce Incarna later(WIS).
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4

Author Topic

Mynx La'Rue
Royal Order of Security Specialists
Posted - 2010.07.17 13:37:00 - [31]
 

Supported .... i cant believe that FW, the entry forppl who wanna do pvp, is so continously neglected. That is MORE then frustrating, and that for a LONG time now.

Asthariye
Angry Mustellid
Posted - 2010.07.17 13:38:00 - [32]
 

If nothing else at least fix the bugs. Improvement of the mechanic as a whole would be better, but I'll settle for fixing what's broken...

Vechernyi
Ascetic Virtues

Posted - 2010.07.17 13:41:00 - [33]
 


Arkady Sadik
Minmatar
Electus Matari
Posted - 2010.07.17 13:54:00 - [34]
 

Yes please.

duct tayp
Posted - 2010.07.17 13:59:00 - [35]
 

The fix I think we can all agree needs to be made is to make system occupancy do SOMETHING. As of right now, occupying a system does nothing more than reduce the CPU and Powergrid useage of your robe and wizard hat, which is ridiculous. I think not allowing enemy faction ships to dock in systems occupied would be a welcome change, or at leats charging a docking fee. Another possible solution would be to increase the rewards from completing a mind numbing plex, or system takeover.

Drezdyn
Gallente
Murientor Tribe
Posted - 2010.07.17 14:04:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Drezdyn on 17/07/2010 14:04:25
CCP - it is clear from the CSM minutes that not only will you not devote developer time to fixing FW issues, but there is not a clear team or individual stakeholder for FW issues.

Another thing that is clear from this thread ( and many others ) is that there needs to be more concensus around _what_ and _how_ to fix before it can be fixed.

Assigning development talent to work on the issues doesn't have to happen right now, but we _need_ CCP folks to be looking at the issue, making plans, designing fixes _now_! Assign devs once they have the time, but to let these issues go unaddressed because you are busy developing products for new revenue is a slap in the face to your existing clients (read your operating income).

EDIT: Edited to support the OP.

ibanez0r
Minmatar
5th Australian Tactical Wing
Posted - 2010.07.17 14:13:00 - [37]
 

isnt it the pc players subscriptions that paid for all of this? they should be rewarded, not stupid console noobs :(

Garr Anders
Minmatar
The Red Circle Inc.

Posted - 2010.07.17 14:20:00 - [38]
 

supported!

+1

FW is still (even with broken mechanics) the best entry into PvP for new players.

So if you dont want to loose all those potential subscribers within the 14 day free trial, fix it!

Layla Aamiriya
Posted - 2010.07.17 16:35:00 - [39]
 

CCP I question your integrity. You take my money but you don't fix the bugs in the current version of EVE. I support the corrections for Faction Warfare. Fit it Now.

Captain Vaguy
Royal Order of Security Specialists
Posted - 2010.07.17 16:56:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Captain Vaguy on 17/07/2010 16:57:08
CCP we are paying customers. Treat us equally before other games take our interestExclamation

Kaito Kenshin
Ammo and Tag
Posted - 2010.07.17 18:26:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Kaito Kenshin on 17/07/2010 18:28:20
I decided fairly recently that I'm finished with faction war until it is fixed...or at least improved. After a year of trying to make the best of tired, ineffective game mechanics, I had to move on to find motivation to keep my account active. So in my opinion, yes--FW needs some fixin' in a very bad way.

I would like to point out something about FW that ought make it worth fixing to CCP: the fact that a great many FW players support their play by buying PLEXes. FW is an isk-sink like no other. People do it because they like to fight, not grind wealth...so lots of militia folk are frequently shelling out the extra thirty bucks to replace their losses. That is something that big alliance pilots and highsec corps don't have to do.

I know that since I've left the militia, the likelihood that I'll be paying dollars for any more plexes has become pretty much nonexistant. I simply don't have to pump that much money in to the game anymore.

My point is this: I would be incredibly surprised if the profit CCP is making off of pilots per capita involved in FW isn't significantly greater than that which they are making off of those who are not. (Yay woot convoluted sentence)

More simply, my point is this:
Crappy FW = less PLEXes bought with RL cash.

Dirk Smacker
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
Posted - 2010.07.17 18:27:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Ori Blake
Fixing FW wont attract new players.

I don't know. I'm fairly new and I really want to give FW a try in the near future. The problems I hear people talking about are the metagame being a bit borked and the FW community dieing off. Coming from WAR, I know that capturing objectives can foster cooperation. However, the places to be for the best PvP in EVE don't seem to be in FW.

If it was better, CCP could retain a lot more players that give the game a try.

Rikki Sals
Caldari
Posted - 2010.07.17 21:17:00 - [43]
 

The problem isn't that they haven't fixed Faction Warfare yet, it's that they haven't removed it yet.

Shalassason
Posted - 2010.07.17 22:30:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: Shalassason on 17/07/2010 22:30:13
Blowing up internet spaceships is serious buisness,

walking on boring stations however is not.

Kiram
Posted - 2010.07.17 22:33:00 - [45]
 

But I want a hairdresser and a bar you bastards!


Farelle
Gallente
Core Impulse
Posted - 2010.07.18 00:04:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Rikki Sals
The problem isn't that they haven't fixed Faction Warfare yet, it's that they haven't removed it yet.


why would you want a part of the game used by (if milita numbers are anything to go by) thousands of players, removed?

Ralnik
Alpha Squad
Posted - 2010.07.18 02:13:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: Ralnik on 18/07/2010 02:13:47
Originally by: Ori Blake
Fixing FW wont attract new players. I think people miss the point of Incarna, it's to get a lot of new players into the game, and ones that wouldn't try EVE otherwise. CCP has to attract new business it seems.


Incarna will be introduced with a whole new batch of bugs of it's own. If CCP can't fix the stuff that's broken now due to misplaced priorities. What makes anyone think they will suddenly prioritize these fixes 18 months to 2 years from now after a whole new host of broken features are added.

I support this topic not just for FW but low sec in general and to show CCP that they need to focus on the game we have today, not 2 years from now.

Usagi Hino
Posted - 2010.07.18 09:59:00 - [48]
 

Not supported. I don't engage in FW, and would like WIS/incarna. Furthermore, WIS/incarna in needed for DUST which is needed to bring more life in PI.

Rikki Sals
Caldari
Posted - 2010.07.18 19:21:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Farelle
Originally by: Rikki Sals
The problem isn't that they haven't fixed Faction Warfare yet, it's that they haven't removed it yet.


why would you want a part of the game used by (if milita numbers are anything to go by) thousands of players, removed?


I apologize, I did not realize participation in Faction Warfare was so widespread. ugh If amends to it could be proven to not only retain players currently involved in it, but grow participation from the rest of the playerbase, as well as attract new players to EVE, to a greater extent than Incarna and Dust 514, then yes, it certainly deserves more developer attention. However, I do not believe that this is the case.

I played Warhammer Online for the first year that it was out, and it was built from the ground up to be based on Realm vs Realm (Faction vs Faction?) pvp. It had many great mechanics for people to form ad hoc groups to accomplish both pve and pvp tasks; the progression of the greater pvp war was based on smaller pve objectives, any of which could quickly turn into pvp engagements (sound familiar?). The combat had a nice skirmish feel, and the game got a lot of things right. Warhammer Online is now also widely considered a massive failure. Its subscribership numbers dropped off a cliff. Smile

Why? In small part due to the normal implementation hiccups that almost all MMOs face; bugs, server problems, imbalance issues, etc. But what REALLY killed it was that from the very beginning the concept was flawed.

By dictating the players' opponents by an arbitrary choice at the beginning of playing (one more based on roleplay aesthetics, or so and so's side is or isn't the current underdog, etc.), rather than allowing all conflicts to be born out of individual player choices and interactions, the burden of giving pvp conflict any personal meaning went to the developers. So the developers would try to come up with more and better ways to dynamically reward/punish the victors and defeated with various game items/ranks/limitations/perks. These things soon get old, and people soon realize that such a system devolves into gaming the system itself, instead of each other.

Realms (factions) would occasionally achieve widespread cohesion and accomplish all of the goals dictated by the realm (faction) conflict mechanics, after which rehashing such accomplishment would become trivial faster than the devs could pile more new content or incentives on top of the heap. Each side would soon devolve into chaotic sparring against people they might rather be riding(flying) with (but hey, they're part of such and such faction, so we're SUPPOSED to kill them!) while wishing they could kill some of their very own realm(faction)-mates, or into cliquey semi-organized groups that effectively gamed the system for maximum profit, and then eventually got bored of it and quit.

TL;DR - Faction warfare as a larger concept is a dead end; many proposed improvements to it would make it LESS player driven and more dev driven, and there are way more compelling things for the CSM and devs to be spending their time on. (Revamping low sec, new features that will for a certainty result in playerbase growth, things that add on to the sandboxyness of EVE rather than spoon feeding more of it, etc.)

Ori Blake
Posted - 2010.07.18 19:58:00 - [50]
 

Quote:
Wrong, fixing FW will keep players playing it and will attract new players already playing Eve to go in fw so they can pvp.

For Incarna, the whole purpose is to make eve-online more socialising...nothing else. Theres seem to be a big boom in social tools and sites like twitter, facebook and all those useless ugly site. Why ? because people like to chat together and it's a big business oportunity. I mean they live in their mom's basement and they aren't respectful to each other. So they go online and socialize instead...ok nvm, I got off the track here lol.


More people would come into the game through Incarna than any FW fix. FW is horrible for new players because it tanks their standings with the opposing factions, and it teaches them the only effective PvP is battleship and up blobs.

Plus Incarna solves a real problem: the game is BORING half the time when you are waiting for skills to train. Currently its just grinding ISK and looking for trouble: this adds more things to do. Fixing FW doesn't: it's just to benefit the small number of people doing it.

Quote:
I don't know. I'm fairly new and I really want to give FW a try in the near future. The problems I hear people talking about are the metagame being a bit borked and the FW community dieing off. Coming from WAR, I know that capturing objectives can foster cooperation. However, the places to be for the best PvP in EVE don't seem to be in FW.

If it was better, CCP could retain a lot more players that give the game a try.


The metagame is as borked as the rest of the game's PvP. Plexing isn't much different than playing timezone games to nail a POS, or using spies, station games, and neutral alts/reppers.

Thing is there is no shortage of PvP opportunities in the game, and the fixes a lot of people mention for FW really wont get new people into it. If it can be fixed at all-metagaming will never be, and that's a large part of what makes FW bad.

Quote:
Incarna will be introduced with a whole new batch of bugs of it's own. If CCP can't fix the stuff that's broken now due to misplaced priorities. What makes anyone think they will suddenly prioritize these fixes 18 months to 2 years from now after a whole new host of broken features are added.

I support this topic not just for FW but low sec in general and to show CCP that they need to focus on the game we have today, not 2 years from now.


You wont have a game in 2 years if they waste time trying to fix unfixable things. They have to focus on what will bring in new people, because in 2010-2011 you are going to start seeing population in EVE decay even further simply because new AAA games are coming out.

Lowsec can't be fixed. Most of the "fixes" are harmful in general and would actually lose players. Like lowsec routes only between empires.

Some things can be fixed and polished, and there is a problem when they don't work on more basic things because of it. But lowsec/fw is impossible to fix imo.


Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
Posted - 2010.07.18 20:09:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Ori Blake
Baseless nonsense...

A troll? A clueless person? A player who's bitter that they invested time in a game they don't like?

You decide. Now back to your regularly scheduled program.

Ori Blake
Posted - 2010.07.18 20:31:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Jin Nib
Originally by: Ori Blake
Baseless nonsense...

A troll? A clueless person? A player who's bitter that they invested time in a game they don't like?

You decide. Now back to your regularly scheduled program.


I did FW on the Amarr side, and there is no way to fix the thing. Most of the problems with FW are metagame ones that wont go away: the militia channel being a refuge for alt spies, and the inability to make FW occupancy matter without it being exploited just like the FW level 4s are (look at Navy Slicer prices freefalling for an example.)

Lowsec too: I've soloed in it most of the time that I've played. Most of the solutions here to lowsec break the game because for pirates to exist, you have to force hisec bears in there to lose their ships. Any other changes already are covered by wormholes better.

My point still stands: fixing both wont draw people to the game. EVE players have too much tunnel vision about the nature of the game being one way, and don't realize the benefits of Incarna bringing people in.

MythBlood
Posted - 2010.07.18 22:01:00 - [53]
 

fix existing game features now plz.

Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
Posted - 2010.07.18 23:01:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: Jin Nib on 18/07/2010 23:01:36
Originally by: Ori Blake

I did FW on the Amarr side, and there is no way to fix the thing. Most of the problems with FW are metagame ones that wont go away: the militia channel being a refuge for alt spies, and the inability to make FW occupancy matter without it being exploited just like the FW level 4s are (look at Navy Slicer prices freefalling for an example.)

Lowsec too: I've soloed in it most of the time that I've played. Most of the solutions here to lowsec break the game because for pirates to exist, you have to force hisec bears in there to lose their ships. Any other changes already are covered by wormholes better.

My point still stands: fixing both wont draw people to the game. EVE players have too much tunnel vision about the nature of the game being one way, and don't realize the benefits of Incarna bringing people in.
Yeah I think I trolled myself, that's a weird experience.ugh Anyways I agree, and am quite looking forward to Incarna, it should make the game a more interesting place and may lead to improvements in many places. Far more then any FW fix would manage.

Low-sec and FW as a subsection of low-sec (though some may not agree with me on that) however have a lot of opportunity to grow and improve. There is a lot of potential for fun game stuff that could be made with those two products. They aren't as hopeless as you make them out to be. Obviously not with forcing carebears to low-sec or something like that (and honestly who wants em anyways, let them rot in high-sec if that's their thing) but working with the nature of the area and the people who live there and emphasizing that.

Anyways I'm for letting them finish Incarna so when they actually start to improve the stuff they've already put in game they can actually focus on it properly rather than a bunch of band-aid fixes that bog the game down with nonsense. Also its likely that Incarna could also give them that ability to gather more resources overall assuming an influx of new sub's.

Alica Wildfire
Minmatar
Federal Investigations Agency

Posted - 2010.07.19 10:20:00 - [55]
 

I subscribe to fix FW as soon as possible. But don't waste effort that was put into Incarna for that. Incarna is important and has priority and people are waiting for that much too long now. This gets a bunch of new players, a bunch of new targets, profit and new tacklers for the own fleet. EVE really needs this, even if you are not in RP.

But FW is seriously broken. Fix it please. I subscribe for this but don't do it with a hot needle. I'd appreciate a serious overhaul of that stuff. Take your time, but do it. Please.

<<< with Cherry on top

Stoogie
Minmatar
Cadre Assault Force

Posted - 2010.07.19 11:00:00 - [56]
 


Diosas
Posted - 2010.07.19 11:23:00 - [57]
 

CCP always create a fanfare of this 'big' new features but as always they turn out to be half finished useless additions, that just get left. Bascially CCP think by adding a small item it satisfies the player base and thats all they need to do.

People go on about "but its a free upgrade!" yeah but its a useless upgrade! I would much rather PAY for a very good upgrade than have a useless one..


Argyle Jones
Minmatar
Ministry of Destruction
P I R A T E S
Posted - 2010.07.19 15:07:00 - [58]
 

I haven't played any FW since just after it came out. Back then it was all new and exciting, but quickly got uninteresting and I left to pursue some 0.0 PVP instead. As such I haven't really followed up on how it works today, but everyone here keep on saying saying 'fix the bugs'. Would someone care to enumerate what exactly is wrong with FW beyond simply being boring?

/AJ

Hori To
Masuat'aa Matari
Posted - 2010.07.19 17:01:00 - [59]
 

how much resources can a bone or two cost?

like LP for FW kills...

/supported

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2010.07.19 19:37:00 - [60]
 

Supported.

FW is by far one of the most enjoyable aspects of the game for me and I would LOVE to see some extra PvP-centric added... or at the very least a clean-up of certain longstanding "quirks."


Pages: 1 [2] 3 4

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only