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Global Comms
Posted - 2010.07.13 04:01:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Global Comms on 13/07/2010 04:01:56
CCP have ruled out devoting any time to low sec for the next 2 years at least lol (read csm5 transcripts)

Its great to know having a pirate as the CSM chairperson had such an effect

I am assuming we will be having a protest resignation from said person in response to this?


Admiral Pelleon
White Shadow Imperium
Posted - 2010.07.13 04:08:00 - [2]
 

What is low sec?

Lana Torrin
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.07.13 05:48:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Admiral Pelleon
What is low sec?

Its that bit of space you travel through between running lvl4's in highsec and PvPing in 0.0.

Brea Tharen
Posted - 2010.07.13 06:13:00 - [4]
 

I could be wrong but I thought that your pirate CSM already got thrown out for being a punk.

If so, I'm thinking they probably were too busy trying to scam for themselves to actually help anyone.

Next time vote a Merc in.

Gladys Pank
Amarr
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
Posted - 2010.07.13 06:24:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Brea Tharen
I could be wrong but I thought that your pirate CSM already got thrown out for being a punk.

If so, I'm thinking they probably were too busy trying to scam for themselves to actually help anyone.

Next time vote a Merc in.


Are you dumb or just dumb and trolling.

It was a carebear CSM that got thrown out. Mynxee is an ex-pirate turned merc and is currently chairing the CSM.

GTFO.

Lana Torrin
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.07.13 07:48:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Lana Torrin on 13/07/2010 07:48:13
Lana has read Mynxees report, and well, I actually find it a bit encouraging.. Oh and its 18 months not 24..

So, why do I find it encouraging? Well, basically because CCP agreed with everything that was said, they just didn't have time to do anything about it right now. This give US (and the CSM) 18 months to mindcraft what we want lowsec to be. CCP is OPEN to the idea of changing lowsec, and they want us to do the work for them, AND I SAY WE SHOULD. Its our game, lets design it!

Edit: Yes I have taken my meds today.

Velocity Prime
The Greater Goon
Clockwork Pineapple
Posted - 2010.07.13 07:59:00 - [7]
 

What's wrong with low sec?


Gladys Pank
Amarr
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
Posted - 2010.07.13 08:10:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Velocity Prime
What's wrong with low sec?




I only see four kills in low sec for you and one of them was a cyno atron Rolling Eyes

Lana Torrin
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.07.13 08:14:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Velocity Prime
What's wrong with low sec?



The vast majority of it (which I shall call black rise and placid) is an empty wasteland filled with nothing. The odd pocket is filled with multiple PvP groups (most of which blob and have NAPs with each other) and can be quite fun.

The problem with it is that you could just turn it in to 0.0 space and most people wouldn't notice, and in fact some would welcome it. It has no identity of its own (unless you count being a vast wasteland an identity). It has no soul. It doesn't even really fit within the concept of eve.. Its empire space, but the empire doesn't care about it and refuses to defend it even one little bit... But no one else can take it over.. But there is no good reason for that as the empire just says it is theirs and that's good enough.

Dotard
Minmatar
Kernel of War
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.07.13 09:47:00 - [10]
 

Well there's plenty of good "roleplay" explanations: Not worth while devoting navy forces or police to because...not of strategic interest, no resources worth protecting, too dangerous (npc) pirates roaming about. Pretty much any reason will fit as long as the empire's resources and forces aren't unlimited.

More on topic: At some point they did bring BS rats to lowsec, since Dominion there are some really decent moons in low and PI brings in the occasional hauler as well. I'm not saying they shouldn't make lowsec more attractive for pve...but I see the whole concept of lowsec as a pvp concept. What use are stabbed/cloaked/nanod ratters and 1mil haulers in your lowsec when nobody wants a fight? I have no idea what it might be, but something needs to be done to bring pvp back to lowsec. I mean pvp, not blob warfare.
In addition to that imho lowsec is way too safe. Increase redocking delays, stop jumping games, maybe allow attackers to jump without having to wait...these are just ideas that came to mind right now, they kinda suck, but you get the general direction.


Andrea Skye
Caldari
Heavy Risk...
Posted - 2010.07.13 10:31:00 - [11]
 

As a player who has been living in low sec pretty much the whole time since I started playing...

I DISAPPROVE.

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2010.07.13 10:48:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Misanth on 13/07/2010 10:50:10
Lowsec is decent today. Yeah, it got issues (especially hard to find 'what is lowsec about'), but if we just get a fix to the unique low-sec lag then we're already on a good way towards a better place.

As long as CCP want 0.0 to be "endgame", lowsec will never be a profitable region for carebears, period. And spaceholding alliances want conquerable stations.

What lowsec got today, is the potential to find smaller groups of players who actually wants to fight. Unlike high- or nullsec. That's where the potential boosts should come as well.

So roughly;
* Don't ever make lowsec a 'rich' region (in fact, remove the moon mining from it kthxplx).
* Fix the ridicilously lag that only exist in lowsec.
* Take a look at station game mechanics, CCP have during the years nerfed stabs, nano, etc, all time saying players should "commit" to fighting. Force them to commit on stations too.

It's pretty easy to grind up sec from -10 today, and the markets in lowsec should be flourishing as long as there's people that want to buy stuff there. Killing carebears isn't "PvP" (ganking is damn fun, a good fight even more so).

Now that belt ratters are damn hard to find, most targets in 0.0 is either sitting in a blob, or an anomaly in a station system with gazillion friends and cynojammer + caps in system. It's not a great hunting ground. I find myself being drawn back to lowsec again, tbh. It isn't that bad really, as long as we keep the blobs outta there.

Jack Dant
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.07.13 10:54:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Velocity Prime
What's wrong with low sec?

While lowsec it's reasonably fine from a small gang PVP point of view, there is no motivation to be there (other than said PVP).

The good moons, where they exist, are owned by 0.0 alliances, because they have the resources to take and defend them. Mining is useless, missions hard to secure properly, and PI tends to be a solo activity that doesn't encourage any kind of defense op.

Added to that, lowsec PVP will shut you out of highsec, so it becomes really unappealing for highsec corps/alliances to move there.

It's a bit sad that most of my actual PVP in lowsec is essentially consensual (as in, someone is looking to fight pirates, some pirates go fight them).

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2010.07.13 11:03:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Misanth on 13/07/2010 11:03:24
Originally by: Jack Dant
Originally by: Velocity Prime
What's wrong with low sec?

While lowsec it's reasonably fine from a small gang PVP point of view, there is no motivation to be there (other than said PVP).

The good moons, where they exist, are owned by 0.0 alliances, because they have the resources to take and defend them. Mining is useless, missions hard to secure properly, and PI tends to be a solo activity that doesn't encourage any kind of defense op.

Added to that, lowsec PVP will shut you out of highsec, so it becomes really unappealing for highsec corps/alliances to move there.

It's a bit sad that most of my actual PVP in lowsec is essentially consensual (as in, someone is looking to fight pirates, some pirates go fight them).


That's exactly why lowsec is good. Razz

Consensual fights vs others with (hopefully) some sort of skill, and interest in fighting. Not too blobby, and no major interest from spaceholding alliances to go there.

Just get rid of the moon mining, fix the lag and station games, and we're spot on. YARRRR!!

ISK1machine
Posted - 2010.07.13 11:15:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Lana Torrin
Originally by: Admiral Pelleon
What is low sec?

Its that bit of space you travel through between running lvl4's in highsec and PvPing in 0.0.


No you dont really need to travel through since there are jump clones.Actually you dont even have to fly through when you first place a jump clone to 0.0.If your corp has an office you just suicide your self directlyCool

Jack Dant
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.07.13 11:22:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Misanth
That's exactly why lowsec is good. Razz

Consensual fights vs others with (hopefully) some sort of skill, and interest in fighting. Not too blobby, and no major interest from spaceholding alliances to go there.

Just get rid of the moon mining, fix the lag and station games, and we're spot on. YARRRR!!

Oh, I kind of agree, but if consensual fights are the purpose of lowsec, why am I getting sec hits for starting them? Not really complaining, being -10 is worth it, but it makes no sense.

But the moon mining doesn't bother me at all, it just gives me a chance to steal a tower every month or two. Which is part of the spirit of lowsec, really.

Dotard
Minmatar
Kernel of War
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.07.13 11:29:00 - [17]
 

Put a can out. Aggro the pirate. If it's really consensual it shouldn't matter. And once your sec is bad enough, you aggro anyway. =)

Beachura
Exiled.
The Kadeshi
Posted - 2010.07.13 11:36:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Lana Torrin
Originally by: Admiral Pelleon
What is low sec?

Its that bit of space you travel through between running lvl4's in highsec and PvPing in 0.0.


Lana, marry me

The'Best Hellfury
Incura
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2010.07.13 11:39:00 - [19]
 

:welp:

Jack Dant
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.07.13 11:41:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Dotard
Put a can out. Aggro the pirate. If it's really consensual it shouldn't matter. And once your sec is bad enough, you aggro anyway. =)

You misunderstand, I'm -10, people can engage me whenever they want.

By consensual, I mean both sides are looking for a fight, and both get it. Not some lame arranged fight where you drop cans or whatever. If you bring a PVP gang to lowsec to hunt pirates, and a pirate gang baits and engages you, that's consensual PVP in my book YARRRR!!

Ava Starfire
Minmatar
Teraa Matar
Posted - 2010.07.13 11:52:00 - [21]
 

I like losec, more or less, just as it is. I find plenty of people to fight. I simply miss most of them due to my own mistakes, and ofc short scram range.

Giving people "a reason to come there" will just encourage big blobs of them to come. Better rats would be nice, but far from a requirement.

I think losec needs a player base not terrified of losing even one frigate. I sometimes wonder how many of us are playing Eve and how many are playing Killmails Online.

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2010.07.13 11:54:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Misanth on 13/07/2010 12:08:40
Originally by: Jack Dant
Oh, I kind of agree, but if consensual fights are the purpose of lowsec, why am I getting sec hits for starting them? Not really complaining, being -10 is worth it, but it makes no sense.

But the moon mining doesn't bother me at all, it just gives me a chance to steal a tower every month or two. Which is part of the spirit of lowsec, really.


That one is a tricky question tbh.

..then again, the lowsec lag is probably related to the constant sec updates and aggression calculations. It's hard to see what would replace it tho. The current scale gives a visibility and tool, and the below -5's have an actual advantage (!) to get people aggress them they normally wouldn't.

Overall I think the sec system is doing it's job alright, it just doesn't seem to work very well on a bigger scale. And perhaps the sec/aggro refreshes should be done less frequent (but that has its own implications and obvious abuse). And perhaps they shouldn't drop your sec at all if you get aggressed back, just give a normal 15min flag, and calculate the sec after the fight if the target didn't die?

Not easy solutions, but overall I just like lowsec better and better. Lowsec been less and less appealing to visit through the years, but imho, it's starting to change back to being good again.

Originally by: Ava Starfire
I think losec needs a player base not terrified of losing even one frigate. I sometimes wonder how many of us are playing Eve and how many are playing Killmails Online.


QFFT

(but that goes for most of EVE tbh, not just a lowsec issue)

Beachura
Exiled.
The Kadeshi
Posted - 2010.07.13 12:00:00 - [23]
 

You shouldn't be losing frigates in low sec, unless there is an arazu present, You are playing a game where you have a forcefield *shields*, armor and a structure level for a reason,

This is said time and time again, but people don't seem to see it

Once you leave a station, there is a risk to the ship your flying, in low security the risk is greater, Don't use it if you don't like it

What's the big problem? out here in stain you get nothing but bubbles and goddamn hotdrops, i miss low sec where you have half a chance of achieving warp

Gladys Pank
Amarr
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
Posted - 2010.07.13 12:09:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Beachura
You shouldn't be losing frigates in low sec, unless there is an arazu present, You are playing a game where you have a forcefield *shields*, armor and a structure level for a reason,

This is said time and time again, but people don't seem to see it

Once you leave a station, there is a risk to the ship your flying, in low security the risk is greater, Don't use it if you don't like it

What's the big problem? out here in stain you get nothing but bubbles and goddamn hotdrops, i miss low sec where you have half a chance of achieving warp


Congrats on missing the damn point that SOME PEOPLE LIKE TO PVP. WTB invulnerable frigates to take on every engagement provided there is no Arazu there Rolling Eyes

Fumitsugu Sylwia
Posted - 2010.07.13 12:17:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Gladys Pank
Originally by: Beachura
You shouldn't be losing frigates in low sec, unless there is an arazu present, You are playing a game where you have a forcefield *shields*, armor and a structure level for a reason,

This is said time and time again, but people don't seem to see it

Once you leave a station, there is a risk to the ship your flying, in low security the risk is greater, Don't use it if you don't like it

What's the big problem? out here in stain you get nothing but bubbles and goddamn hotdrops, i miss low sec where you have half a chance of achieving warp


Congrats on missing the damn point that SOME PEOPLE LIKE TO PVP. WTB invulnerable frigates to take on every engagement provided there is no Arazu there Rolling Eyes


I lol'ed moderately

Global Comms
Posted - 2010.07.13 13:30:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Global Comms on 13/07/2010 13:32:43
Originally by: Lana Torrin
Edited by: Lana Torrin on 13/07/2010 07:48:13
Lana has read Mynxees report, and well, I actually find it a bit encouraging.. Oh and its 18 months not 24..

So, why do I find it encouraging? Well, basically because CCP agreed with everything that was said, they just didn't have time to do anything about it right now. This give US (and the CSM) 18 months to mindcraft what we want lowsec to be. CCP is OPEN to the idea of changing lowsec, and they want us to do the work for them, AND I SAY WE SHOULD. Its our game, lets design it!

Edit: Yes I have taken my meds today.



Firstly - the time scale given is 18-24 months.

Quote:
...Even though no action may be taken for 18-24 months...


24 months is two years. Truth be told, with CCP track record (see the backlog of agreed items CCP havent implented in three years) your really looking at 2years+, 3 years, 4 years.

I look forward to the changes that will come. May i suggest UI tweaks for Old Age Pensioners, as we will all be ancient and senile by the time they do anything.

So yeah - I would call on the chairperson Mynxee to be resigning publicly, informing all the MMO blogs, and online journals CCP love to tap up (bbc online, new york journal online) the reason being CCPs lack of support for the CSM they set in - if she really cares about lowsec, piract, and the CSM - this is the best course of action

RESIGN!!!!!


Velocity Prime
The Greater Goon
Clockwork Pineapple
Posted - 2010.07.13 14:06:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Gladys Pank
Originally by: Velocity Prime
What's wrong with low sec?




I only see four kills in low sec for you and one of them was a cyno atron Rolling Eyes


Hey, that Cyno Atron was asking for it!

Yeah, while I'm not sure that those numbers are accurate (battleclinic ftw) I can most definitely assure you that this character, that was the CEO of the largest ninja salvaging corporation in EVE .... which takes place in highsec..... didn't go to lowsec much....

And just because you choose to live in the slums, doesn't mean the city should fix them up. YARRRR!!

Troll has spoken. Discuss!


HMSBlueprint
Two Maidens One Chalice
Posted - 2010.07.13 14:11:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: HMSBlueprint on 13/07/2010 14:12:06
Originally by: Gladys Pank
Originally by: Beachura
You shouldn't be losing frigates in low sec, unless there is an arazu present, You are playing a game where you have a forcefield *shields*, armor and a structure level for a reason,

This is said time and time again, but people don't seem to see it

Once you leave a station, there is a risk to the ship your flying, in low security the risk is greater, Don't use it if you don't like it

What's the big problem? out here in stain you get nothing but bubbles and goddamn hotdrops, i miss low sec where you have half a chance of achieving warp

Congrats on missing the damn point that SOME PEOPLE LIKE TO PVP. WTB invulnerable frigates to take on every engagement provided there is no Arazu there Rolling Eyes


Yeah but you don't, your a trolling dirty little scammer, gtfo :)

(yeah i know, wrong char_

Seith Silverstein
Something Rotten
Posted - 2010.07.13 14:12:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Seith Silverstein on 13/07/2010 14:11:43
Originally by: Jack Dant
Originally by: Dotard
Put a can out. Aggro the pirate. If it's really consensual it shouldn't matter. And once your sec is bad enough, you aggro anyway. =)

You misunderstand, I'm -10, people can engage me whenever they want.

By consensual, I mean both sides are looking for a fight, and both get it. Not some lame arranged fight where you drop cans or whatever. If you bring a PVP gang to lowsec to hunt pirates, and a pirate gang baits and engages you, that's consensual PVP in my book YARRRR!!


HI JACK!

Pressing the "Undock" button is consensual PvP in my book Twisted Evil

Owen Drakkar
Bad...Karma
Posted - 2010.07.13 15:38:00 - [30]
 

pewpew


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