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blankseplocked Looking back : Learning Skills ( 2004 Player Request )
 
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Hoxillian Montgomery
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2010.07.11 12:33:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Hoxillian Montgomery on 11/07/2010 12:48:43

It's quite interesting how the playerbase had changed since...

Tanner Mirabel Posted - 2004.04.19 12:54:00
Quote:
I do love the skill system in EVE, its one of the things that drew me to it as it removes the Macro using power leveling aspects.

Link: 2004.04.19 - New Learning Skill

Players requesting for more Learning skills rather then asking for it to be remove!

CCP had reworked, tweaked, adjusted the Learning skills over the past few years. They also gave us the Traning Queue and the Attribute Remap. So I don't know where this rumour about CCP planning to remove Learning skills came from.

If they remove the Learning skills, it will be almost like opening a can of worms. Not just one but many many cans;

  • What will happen to the Attribute Remap?

  • Then you'd have players requesting Social skills to be removed next.

  • Then you will have players asking training time length be reduced.

  • All that plus all the skills directly / indirectly linked to attributes must be reviewed. Including items.

I'm not even talking about how CCP would need to identify ( one by one per character ) how much skillpoints had been invested, how much learning skillbooks cost at the time of purchased and other things that they need to look into in order to grant fair reimbursement once they implement removing the learning skills.

Now... I highly doubt CCP have the time to even start reviewing stuffs that are working. I'd rather them devote their time to a much much more important issues involving security and lag.

So why do you think people started asking for Learning skills to be removed? Are there any recently added mechanic / feature in game that is bothersome or causing problems? Or is purely rumour based on assumptions?

Jasdemi
Interstellar Whine Brewery
Monocle Overlords
Posted - 2010.07.11 13:14:00 - [2]
 

Not the players started this, CCP did. At fanfest '09 they said that learning skills were a mistake and best would be to get rid of them.

Hoxillian Montgomery
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2010.07.11 14:14:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Hoxillian Montgomery on 11/07/2010 14:18:13

Hmmmmmm in that case, that's a bit serious then. I can't imagine an actual CCP employee contradicting / not agreeing on their own game mechanic implementations and having the courage to publicly make a statement about it.

I guess it is up to CCP to clear it out publicly as more and more players, new ones especially would want to know if it's even worth it spending time on learning those skills if they plan on taking them out in the future.

That's assuming they / an employee of CCP did publicly critizized their own internal game design.

Unless of course it was CCP Hellmar that said it Laughing then it's a different story lol!

Tarasina
Posted - 2010.07.11 15:00:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Tarasina on 11/07/2010 15:01:52
Edited by: Tarasina on 11/07/2010 15:00:42

Tanner Mirabel Posted - 2004.04.19 12:54:00
Quote:
I do love the skill system in EVE, its one of the things that drew me to it as it removes the Macro using power leveling aspects.



Instead we might have the macro miners mining isk to buy chars. Nothing changed.
But also it says "skill system", not "Learning skill system"


"Players requesting for more Learning skills rather then asking for it to be remove!"

To speed up training, why else?
Real time is precious, the ships, isk etc in-game aren't. Getting more "Real time" is impossible but getting isk for ships? Tons of ways to do that.

Guttripper
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2010.07.11 15:16:00 - [5]
 

During a question and answer session, the Learning skills were brought up and Soundwave mentioned how CCP knows there is an issue involving these skills with new players. He used himself as an example how he started three accounts, began the Learning skill tree, and then went off to play Counterstrike for two months. CCP has considered three (?) different approaches to "fixing" the Learning skills, but can not decide which approach would annoy the fewest players. They added that it would be impossible to train them simultaneously with another skill, so that option is not available either. So CCP has left the Learning skills alone.

New players that enter the game are told the very first thing they must do is train the Learning skills over all other skills or they will be perpetually gimped. Since Learning skills do not offer anything in terms of instant advancement into a new module or new set of skills or new ships, many do not see their long term effects. And since new players seem to have trouble leaving the station since the same fools with the poor advice tell them they should not leave until they learn something. Thus new players' first impression is idling for a good month or two.

A few weeks ago during their server migration, CCP's initial time frame went five times longer than they announced. The CSM group offered as advice a skill points bonus package instead of reduction of subscription fees for the lost time as a apologetic gift to the players. While CCP had the means to individually grant skill points to players on a one-to-one basis, to cover the whole subscription base, the gift package was "hot dropped" to the front of production.

Thus began the rumors that since CCP (Soundwave) danced around what to do with the Learning skills followed by CCP "programming" the means of spreading skill points, therefore it was deducted the Learning skills were to be removed. Now depending upon which side of the fence you sit concerning these skills, your stance seems to be as followed:

Against learning skills - pilots that trained the skills will have their skill points returned, along with ISK credit for the purchases of the skill books. Because there are so many skills in the game and it is a race to get them all done yesterday, each and every pilot will be granted +10 attributes per stat, along with a 10% skill speed. Some radicals went so far to suggest every pilot should get +5 implants because using a third party program like EveMon has shown without a doubt this ideal set-up would pay for itself within months. Many of these players are subtle min/max type players and since other games allow you to reach the "end game" within a fairly short time of grinding, then the sandbox of Eve should be altered to fit this play style too. Their rally cry is worrying about the new players spinning inside the station for months on end, doing nothing but train the Learning skills.

Pro learning skills - I am biased here since I am one of these people. We state that a new pilot does not, and should not, stay locked in a station training one set of skills over any other, voiding out fun for efficiency. While we have offered compromises, some have gained a bit of traction, but most are passed over since they do not grant the instant gratification of +10 attributes. Many of us are considered "cranky old vets" since we are labeled as rambling about going through that grind, therefore everyone else should follow suit; translated to keeping down new players in fear of them growing up to usurp us. While we want to keep the "cold, harsh universe" of old going, unless we submit and grant new players a silver platter of +10 attributes, they'll leave in droves and this game will die. Of course, there is no justified answer how Eve has expanded with these skills in tow, but I digress. Our radicals state to remove the skills and nothing more - let people crawl through training.

So there you go, a brief history of this rumor.

Pantload
Gallente
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Flatline.
Posted - 2010.07.11 15:33:00 - [6]
 

*edit*
To the OP:
Sense of entitlement and overwhelming drive for near-instant gratification is rampant among a great many of the newer players. Most likely reason is they are fairly recent converts from World of Whinecraft.

Thanks for posting that link. It's very interesting to look back and see that at one point in time the learning skills were a welcome addition to the game.

Trolling removed. Zymurgist

Tarasina
Posted - 2010.07.11 15:54:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Tarasina on 11/07/2010 15:54:55
Originally by: Guttripper


*snip snip*

Pro learning skills - I am biased here since I am one of these people. We state that a new pilot does not, and should not, stay locked in a station training one set of skills over any other, voiding out fun for efficiency. While we have offered compromises, some have gained a bit of traction, but most are passed over since they do not grant the instant gratification of +10 attributes. Many of us are considered "cranky old vets" since we are labeled as rambling about going through that grind, therefore everyone else should follow suit; translated to keeping down new players in fear of them growing up to usurp us. While we want to keep the "cold, harsh universe" of old going, unless we submit and grant new players a silver platter of +10 attributes, they'll leave in droves and this game will die. Of course, there is no justified answer how Eve has expanded with these skills in tow, but I digress. Our radicals state to remove the skills and nothing more - let people crawl through training.




What I see as the problem is the fact that "vets" don't seem to like change. While in reality, everything changes, all the time.
It's like saying: "When I turned 18, I got a car that went 20 MPH, now theres cars that go 100 MPH, I don't like it. Remove the new cars. You should suffer, as I did." If everyone thought like this, there wouldn't be hospitals of any kind or improvement in any field.

Ask any old person about what they think about todays real world. I bet 99% say we have it easy compared to them.

Pantload
Gallente
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Flatline.
Posted - 2010.07.11 16:08:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Tarasina
Edited by: Tarasina on 11/07/2010 15:54:55
Originally by: Guttripper


*snip snip*

Pro learning skills - I am biased here since I am one of these people. We state that a new pilot does not, and should not, stay locked in a station training one set of skills over any other, voiding out fun for efficiency. While we have offered compromises, some have gained a bit of traction, but most are passed over since they do not grant the instant gratification of +10 attributes. Many of us are considered "cranky old vets" since we are labeled as rambling about going through that grind, therefore everyone else should follow suit; translated to keeping down new players in fear of them growing up to usurp us. While we want to keep the "cold, harsh universe" of old going, unless we submit and grant new players a silver platter of +10 attributes, they'll leave in droves and this game will die. Of course, there is no justified answer how Eve has expanded with these skills in tow, but I digress. Our radicals state to remove the skills and nothing more - let people crawl through training.




What I see as the problem is the fact that "vets" don't seem to like change. While in reality, everything changes, all the time.
It's like saying: "When I turned 18, I got a car that went 20 MPH, now theres cars that go 100 MPH, I don't like it. Remove the new cars. You should suffer, as I did." If everyone thought like this, there wouldn't be hospitals of any kind or improvement in any field.

Ask any old person about what they think about todays real world. I bet 99% say we have it easy compared to them.




I have seen so many of these types of comparisons it makes me want to vomit. Learning skills don't have anything to do with suffering. Where did that term come from in this context? Why are all the newbs now somehow "suffering" from this?! I don't recall it ever seeming like I was suffering at any point while training skills. You know the skills train all the time right? Like even when you're logged out and even when you're asleep? Where's the suffering? You people love to throw that term around. That we veterans want you to suffer like we did. No, that's not it all. We want you to have to do something ( anything ) to earn the right to train at max speed. Why the hell are you entitled to a big fat free bonus?

The current proposal to remove the skill from the game and just give everybody a bonus as though they had them trained to max is nothing but a welfare program.

To the OP:
You see the sense of entitlement that I mentioned clearly at work here. Thanks to Tarasina for coming along so soon to illustrate what I meant about that.

Hoxillian Montgomery
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2010.07.11 16:22:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Hoxillian Montgomery on 11/07/2010 16:23:56
Originally by: Tarasina
Edited by: Tarasina on 11/07/2010 15:54:55
Originally by: Guttripper


*snip snip*

Ask any old person about what they think about todays real world. I bet 99% say we have it easy compared to them.



I can see your point. But I also see that "change" isn't the issue here. I think it's how CCP would handle the process of implementing the change. Both parties have a valid and interesting points. At one side you have players requesting the learning skill be removed for fast-paced gaming which I think is valid. Anything that would add fun to this game is a plus.

And on the other we have the "vets" who does not want the game to be dumb-down too much that it becomes just like your normal hack-slash MMO where you level up so fast that you'd soon get bored and starts wondering what to do next.

Change is good I agree. But when such change ( esp big ones ) is carried out without careful planning, it just ends into chaos.

EVE Online is a complex game that requires you to actually think and plan ahead. To me this is what makes EVE stands out compared to other MMOs in the market. Make it easy and you lose it's magic.

Quote from : Tortuga - Lacrimosa ( EVE Video )
Quote:
The most common phenomenon in evolution is when nature experiments. The measure of such is extinction...



Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
Posted - 2010.07.11 17:00:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Breaker77 on 11/07/2010 16:59:57
Originally by: Jasdemi
Not the players started this, CCP did. At fanfest '09 they said that learning skills were a mistake and best would be to get rid of them.


They said they were a problem, not a mistake

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1346813&page=1#17

Watch the video, and get your facts straight.

Tarasina
Posted - 2010.07.11 17:06:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Tarasina on 11/07/2010 17:15:12
Originally by: Pantload

*snipping*


Why the hell are you entitled to a big fat free bonus?

The current proposal to remove the skill from the game and just give everybody a bonus as though they had them trained to max is nothing but a welfare program. that.

*snip*



Big fat free bonus? Currently it takes 2.5 years for me to see any benefit of training learning skills further. Big? No. Fat? No. Free? I'd be satisfied if my attribs were kept where they are now.


And about the suffering:

If a new player finds the learning skills so detrimental that they will quit the game, I would say that they are suffering and not only that. The GAME itself is suffering.

Slidepott
Blackwater USA Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2010.07.11 17:10:00 - [12]
 

Here is how I would "fix" it.

1. Rank one skills remove Steps 1-4, Rank 3 skills remove Steps 1-3, leaving (1) Rank one skill available to skill (same time as a rank 1 level 5 skill), and (2) Rank 3 skills (same time as current rank 3 skills to train to level 4 and 5)

2. Start every new player with equivalent +7 skill points per 10 skills

3. Change the learning skill to 10% bonus for the now one level to train

4. "refund" every current player with the equal Skill points to having already trained those skill to apply where they choose

this reduces the immediate need to train skills, while rewarding those who have done so already. And still leave the choice to train skills or not.

meh. seems pretty simple to me

Kovcher Staklinch
Caldari
Universal Moose Federation
Posted - 2010.07.11 17:14:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Tarasina
Originally by: Pantload

Big fat free bonus? Currently it takes 2.5 years for me to see any benefit of training learning skills further. Big? No. Fat? No. Free? I'd be satisfied if my attribs were kept where they are now.


I think he meant bonus if CCP removed the learning skills and give everyone a boost. And FYI read the learning skill guide to see how it actually helps your attributes.

Secondly, how are learning skills different to other skills such as Social? These skills give bonus to increased standings and lp. Can we have it removed as well please?

And if you are satisfied with your attributes now, then don't train learning skills and be SATISFIED. Simple.

Tarasina
Posted - 2010.07.11 17:19:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Tarasina on 11/07/2010 17:19:57
Originally by: Kovcher Staklinch
Originally by: Tarasina
Originally by: Pantload

Big fat free bonus? Currently it takes 2.5 years for me to see any benefit of training learning skills further. Big? No. Fat? No. Free? I'd be satisfied if my attribs were kept where they are now.


I think he meant bonus if CCP removed the learning skills and give everyone a boost. And FYI read the learning skill guide to see how it actually helps your attributes.

Secondly, how are learning skills different to other skills such as Social? These skills give bonus to increased standings and lp. Can we have it removed as well please?

And if you are satisfied with your attributes now, then don't train learning skills and be SATISFIED. Simple.


Because social skills are only relevant to mission runners. They are not trained on every character, across the board.
And I am satisfied. Sometimes the world doesn't just revolve around me. Or you.

Kovcher Staklinch
Caldari
Universal Moose Federation
Posted - 2010.07.11 17:27:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Kovcher Staklinch on 11/07/2010 17:33:35
Originally by: Tarasina
Edited by: Tarasina on 11/07/2010 17:19:57
Originally by: Kovcher Staklinch
Originally by: Tarasina
Originally by: Pantload

Big fat free bonus? Currently it takes 2.5 years for me to see any benefit of training learning skills further. Big? No. Fat? No. Free? I'd be satisfied if my attribs were kept where they are now.


I think he meant bonus if CCP removed the learning skills and give everyone a boost. And FYI read the learning skill guide to see how it actually helps your attributes.

Secondly, how are learning skills different to other skills such as Social? These skills give bonus to increased standings and lp. Can we have it removed as well please?

And if you are satisfied with your attributes now, then don't train learning skills and be SATISFIED. Simple.


Because social skills are only relevant to mission runners. They are not trained on every character, across the board.
And I am satisfied. Sometimes the world doesn't just revolve around me. Or you.


Only mission runners??? Laughing Are you serious??? This is exactly why it is crucial that CCP think twice before changing anything major such as removing learning skills.

Included on those "Mission Runner Social Skills" that you mentioned is one of the most important mechanic of this game. The skill to increase the speed to get their standing up to be able to purchase jump clones faster. Without these social skills it will take double the time. Just like learning skill. It helps training other skills faster. You can choose whether or not to train them.

I admit that there are faster way to get a jump clone, but that is the actual beauty of it. People can choose their own path.

Learning skill is the root of the actual EVE Skill System. Attributes is tied up to every skill. Every skill is linked to every items. Every items is linked to everything you do in EVE.

Felix Esperium
Lysergic Distortions Research and Development
Posted - 2010.07.11 17:31:00 - [16]
 

If everyone trains them, wouldn't that pretty much make them the most popular skills in the game?Shocked

Kovcher Staklinch
Caldari
Universal Moose Federation
Posted - 2010.07.11 17:44:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Kovcher Staklinch on 11/07/2010 17:54:59
Originally by: Felix Esperium
If everyone trains them, wouldn't that pretty much make them the most popular skills in the game?Shocked


Each skill has its own uses. It is there to help benefit each player. Learning skills and so is Social aren't just meant to be specifically tied to a pilot career. You can choose to ignore or train these skills.

Focusing and moaning about a set of skills and asking for an easy way is simply asking for an easy game. Learning skills aren't different from any other skills in the game. It helps to benefit those who choose to train it and deny it to the ones who chose not to. Either way, nothing is stopping you to play the game with or without it.

And if your reason is "Oh but if I don't train it then others that do will have a faster training time..." then train it and stop moaning.

If you say that you pay to play this game and not to stay docked and train, then I suggest you either read more about the game or play something else.

Star P'ergish
Posted - 2010.07.11 19:57:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Jasdemi

My first post is not true? I just posted what CCP said at fanfest '09, how can't it be true? It doesn't matter if they remove the learnings or not (although more speaks that they will). Fact is, CCP triggered this discussion. This makes my first post true, no darling?


No it is not true Darling.CCP hasn't triggered anything (if they wanted to they have official channels to do so).
Just few trolls like yourself started unsupported rumors disturbing community (look at the posts from new players asking if they should pass learning skills since you and others are telling them they will be removed)
Beware , you are going too far.

Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
Posted - 2010.07.11 23:17:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Jasdemi

My first post is not true? I just posted what CCP said at fanfest '09, how can't it be true?


Because you are completely full of ****!!

Nothing you have said is true. Read my reply to you earlier in this thread. You are wrong, as in not even close to being right.

Shaemell Buttleson
Posted - 2010.07.12 00:01:00 - [20]
 

The PPL that hated the learning skills back then said that ppl who maxed them were wasting their time as the payoff would take so long.

Now the ppl who hate them say that the ppl who did have the persistance to train them now have an unfair advantage and that they put new ppl off the game.

After years of seeing ppl's posts and posting on the subject myself i'm bored of it and TBFH I don't care anymore about them as long as I can train as fast if they are removed and that I can inject the 5 mil or so points I put into them into some other skill.


Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2010.07.12 06:20:00 - [21]
 

Hoxillian Montgomery said " Are there any recently added mechanic / feature in game that is bothersome or causing problems? Or is purely rumour based on assumptions?"
In the past you started with a decent amont of skill points and had limited choice's in which skills you started with. This meant you could start playing the game right away earning isk and training the learning skills.

Now you do not start with base skills so you cannot start playing the game right away. To get the most out of learning skills you need to start right away but that means you cannot play the game and have fun or earn isk.

So learning skills have not changed. But the starting condition of players has changed. learning skills have more problems with todays starting condition's over the older and some say better starting condition's.

Guttripper
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2010.07.12 07:15:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Pottsey
In the past you started with a decent amont of skill points and had limited choice's in which skills you started with. This meant you could start playing the game right away earning isk and training the learning skills.

Now you do not start with base skills so you cannot start playing the game right away. To get the most out of learning skills you need to start right away but that means you cannot play the game and have fun or earn isk.

So learning skills have not changed. But the starting condition of players has changed. learning skills have more problems with todays starting condition's over the older and some say better starting condition's.


Guttripper started July 2, 2006:

Electronic - 2
Targeting - 1
Gunnery - 4
Small Hybrid Turret - 3
Mining - 1
Missile Launcher Operation - 1
Rockets - 1
Caldari Frigate - 1
Spaceship Command - 1

My new pilot started January 1, 2010:

Electronics - 3
Engineering - 3
Shield Operation - 2
Gunnery - 2
Small Hybrid Turret - 3
Mining - 2
Mechanic - 2
Navigation - 3
Science - 3
Gallente Frigate - 2
Spaceship Command - 3

Guttripper was given an Ibis with its civilian gun and civilian mining modules, a kick in the ass, and told to find his way through the cold, harsh universe. My newest had an accelerate learning rate, two neural remaps from the start, and access to training missions that smothered with ISK, modules, and ships. Almost any question today could be answered either through the in-game tutorial, players, or through outside sources (web pages). Due to the nature of the market today, there is more ISK than ever and thus goods are cheaper than four years ago. A set of +4 implants today are cheaper than a set of +2 implants four years ago (if they were for sale). So yes, "the starting conditions of players has changed" - for the better.

So I guess today's new player has no desire to ~work~ their way up from nothing to make a name for themselves; though there are exceptions and those players will be the future of this game.

Jasdemi
Interstellar Whine Brewery
Monocle Overlords
Posted - 2010.07.12 10:31:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Guttripper
Originally by: Pottsey
In the past you started with a decent amont of skill points and had limited choice's in which skills you started with. This meant you could start playing the game right away earning isk and training the learning skills.

Now you do not start with base skills so you cannot start playing the game right away. To get the most out of learning skills you need to start right away but that means you cannot play the game and have fun or earn isk.

So learning skills have not changed. But the starting condition of players has changed. learning skills have more problems with todays starting condition's over the older and some say better starting condition's.


Guttripper started July 2, 2006:

Electronic - 2
Targeting - 1
Gunnery - 4
Small Hybrid Turret - 3
Mining - 1
Missile Launcher Operation - 1
Rockets - 1
Caldari Frigate - 1
Spaceship Command - 1

My new pilot started January 1, 2010:

Electronics - 3
Engineering - 3
Shield Operation - 2
Gunnery - 2
Small Hybrid Turret - 3
Mining - 2
Mechanic - 2
Navigation - 3
Science - 3
Gallente Frigate - 2
Spaceship Command - 3

Guttripper was given an Ibis with its civilian gun and civilian mining modules, a kick in the ass, and told to find his way through the cold, harsh universe. My newest had an accelerate learning rate, two neural remaps from the start, and access to training missions that smothered with ISK, modules, and ships. Almost any question today could be answered either through the in-game tutorial, players, or through outside sources (web pages). Due to the nature of the market today, there is more ISK than ever and thus goods are cheaper than four years ago. A set of +4 implants today are cheaper than a set of +2 implants four years ago (if they were for sale). So yes, "the starting conditions of players has changed" - for the better.

So I guess today's new player has no desire to ~work~ their way up from nothing to make a name for themselves; though there are exceptions and those players will be the future of this game.


LMAO. So that's it, you're just angry because the newbies may have an easier start. Easier learning curve.

Removed trolling and attacks - Adida

Guttripper
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2010.07.12 11:00:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Jasdemi
LMAO. So that's it, you're just angry because the newbies may have an easier start. Easier learning curve. Now I finally understand your way of thinking, selfish kid.

Looks like you never learned what evolution is. You want this game to stay broken. But that's your job obviously, pathetic troll.



The game has evolved and made it easier for new players as my example clearly shown. Many of the "hardships" I began with have been eased or phased out of the game. But you want instant gratification so you can feel as powerful as we cranky old veterans. You have yet to provide any evidence to your statements to anything you say but have the audacity to call me, and others, pathetic trolls.

- You claim the 2009 Fan Fest as proof, even though CCP stated the Learning skills are a problem, yet you keep rattling them as a "mistake".

- You have yet to present evidence that CCP will in fact remove them except to deduct that since they gave out a small token of apologetic skill points for an extended downtime, therefore the Learning skills are gone.

- You have yet to present evidence that CCP will in fact grant to everyone +10 attributes per stat once the Learning skills are removed.

- You have stated to have the Learning skills completely finished, only to retract once you were proven not to have Charisma done, thus defaulting you to one that lies to make a point.

- You have not and will not show any signs of a compromise from any of us that have presented potential examples of easing the Learning skills for new players except to constantly rattle that CCP made a mistake, they will remove them, and everyone will get +10 attributes similar to a spoiled brat that throws a tantrum until he gets his way.

Removed trolling - Adida

Pantload
Gallente
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Flatline.
Posted - 2010.07.12 13:18:00 - [25]
 

Scroll back through this post and go look at the big learning skills threadnaught. Find even one example of Jasdemi contributing anything meaningful to the discussion. Just one. If you do, it won't be any time recent. He's only just trolling at this point.

Jasdemi
Interstellar Whine Brewery
Monocle Overlords
Posted - 2010.07.12 14:30:00 - [26]
 

I appreciate your attention, guys, but you're supposed to discuss about learnings, not about me. Keep your love posts evemail exclusive and don't post it here in the publicity. I'm getting all embarrassed due to your lovely compliments.

There aren't/weren't any better suggestions than the +10/+10% and SP back. This is simple the best solution. Not my problem if you don't agree with me, it's MY opinion after all.

Pantload
Gallente
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Flatline.
Posted - 2010.07.12 14:48:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Jasdemi
I appreciate your attention, guys, but you're supposed to discuss about learnings, not about me. Keep your love posts evemail exclusive and don't post it here in the publicity. I'm getting all embarrassed due to your lovely compliments.

There aren't/weren't any better suggestions than the +10/+10% and SP back. This is simple the best solution. Not my problem if you don't agree with me, it's MY opinion after all.


Oh look who's decided it's time to get back on-topic now.

You should be embarrassed but not because anyone has paid you a compliment.

There are/were several better suggestions than the +10/+10 rebate welfare government stimulus bonus plan that you are so in love with. You have never acknowledged the existence of any alternate suggestions.

I'll give you an example of one and you can then feel free to poo poo on it ( This one has been officially proposed, btw )

Give all new characters Basic Learning skills to a 4 and Advanced Learning skills to a 3. This would give brand new players more than 70% of the full effect of learning skills right away, save them the cost of the advanced books and leave for them the choice later to train the last few levels or don't.

You should hate that suggestion despite how rational it is because it won't give you personally anything for free.

Xennifer
Posted - 2010.07.12 18:49:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Xennifer on 12/07/2010 18:50:36
Edited by: Xennifer on 12/07/2010 18:49:04
*facepalm*

How is this tired argument against learning reform still around?

The game is approching a decade old, there's absolutely no reason not to further acellerate the pace at which new accounts can see access to content. It already takes years to fly anything much larger than a cruiser perfectly. Why not cut down the time on that process by a few months? There is a lot more to being an EVE veteran than skill gap.

I trained all my learning skills to max on both accounts years ago, but I see absolutely no harm in change to them.

Jasdemi
Interstellar Whine Brewery
Monocle Overlords
Posted - 2010.07.12 18:59:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Xennifer
Edited by: Xennifer on 12/07/2010 18:50:36
Edited by: Xennifer on 12/07/2010 18:49:04
*facepalm*

How is this tired argument against learning reform still around?

The game is approching a decade old, there's absolutely no reason not to further acellerate the pace at which new accounts can see access to content. It already takes years to fly anything much larger than a cruiser perfectly. Why not cut down the time on that process by a few months? There is a lot more to being an EVE veteran than skill gap.

I trained all my learning skills to max on both accounts years ago, but I see absolutely no harm in change to them.

That's pretty pathetic, no? The vets even want to make newbies experience even worse as it is at the time. Selfish kids.

Hoxillian Montgomery
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2010.07.12 21:15:00 - [30]
 

Anyway, going back to the topic... It is quite clear that the removal of the learning skill are based on speculations built up due to an announcement made by CCP.

No formal / official announcement had been made regarding the removal of the said skill. If there is one, then it is not posted on an a official board / website supported by CCP.

It is safe to continue training learning skills.


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