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Mynxee
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.07.09 20:34:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Mynxee on 12/07/2010 15:23:01
Just a quick status update about the Meeting Minutes:

2 July: CCP sent initial draft of the Minutes to CSM
4 July: CSM sent a substantially revised and expanded draft to CCP
9 July: CCP returned the draft with mostly minor edits
11 July: "Approved for publication" final draft sent to CCP
12 July: Published

I believe that CCP intends to publish the Minutes as early as possible next week. With any luck, that will be on Monday.

Some people question why this process takes so much time. I will point out that it is a 28 page document, that 9 CSMs plus CCP are contributing feedback to make sure it is right, and we all have jobs and other RL obligations that prevent us from spending every waking moment on this particular task.


Ban Doga
Posted - 2010.07.09 20:42:00 - [2]
 

Excellent service.

Dariah Stardweller
Gallente
NO U111 Enterprises
Posted - 2010.07.09 21:30:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Mynxee


Some people question why this process takes so much time. I will point out that it is a 28 page document, that 9 CSMs plus CCP are contributing feedback to make sure it is right, and we all have jobs and other RL obligations that prevent us from spending every waking moment on this particular task.


We understand that, but updates like this are realy useful. ppl don't mind waiting that much if they have an indication of when they are going to get what they want.

But ofcourse, you as CSM members know that already and will do your best to keep your public informed as much as possible Smile

Andrew Riviera
Caldari
The First Church of the Azure Carrot
Posted - 2010.07.09 22:01:00 - [4]
 

Many thanks for the feedback. Few things irritate me as much as the impression of being ignored, and thus updates like this are much appreciated. Now if only we could dispel that impression with regards to Ankh... Wink

Borun Tal
Minmatar
Space Pods Inc
Posted - 2010.07.09 22:22:00 - [5]
 

Thanks for keeping the communication alive, Mynxee. :)

Cearain
Caldari
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
Posted - 2010.07.10 03:54:00 - [6]
 

That's actually amazingly fast. Not so much because its 28 pages, but because you have to circulate it to so many people. Nice job csm.


Darth Vapour
Posted - 2010.07.11 06:29:00 - [7]
 

Thanks for the update. Looking forward to reading it and seeing how many of the 28 pages are CCP trying to justify Dominion has not horrible messed up everything it tried to do.

Zemkhoff
Posted - 2010.07.11 15:38:00 - [8]
 

http://www.theonlinerant.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/dilbert-status-report.gif

Mynxee
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.07.11 17:38:00 - [9]
 

Update in the OP, CSM edits to the Minutes are complete; ball is in CCP's court.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.07.11 17:43:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Mynxee
Update in the OP, CSM edits to the Minutes are complete; ball is in CCP's court.


Nice. <3 <3 Glad I voted for you and Sok. :)

-Liang

Loi Shaini
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2010.07.12 06:53:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Cearain
That's actually amazingly fast. Not so much because its 28 pages, but because you have to circulate it to so many people. Nice job csm.




Fait accompli's usually are handled quickly Wink

Meissa Anunthiel
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2010.07.12 15:05:00 - [12]
 


Helicity Boson
Amarr
The Python Cartel.
The Defenders of Pen Island
Posted - 2010.07.12 16:38:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Helicity Boson on 12/07/2010 16:53:47
TL;DR = We are going to keep shoving our half finished and unneeded features down your throat for at least a year and a half longer before we even consider fixing all our broken poo poo and non-functional core gameplay.

Hope that helps.

Edit: My hat is off to the CSM team for their hard hard work against these odds though. For this I salute you. o7

T'Amber
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2010.07.12 16:45:00 - [14]
 

nice work team.


Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.07.12 17:05:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Helicity Boson
Edited by: Helicity Boson on 12/07/2010 16:53:47
TL;DR = We are going to keep shoving our half finished and unneeded features down your throat for at least a year and a half longer before we even consider fixing all our broken poo poo and non-functional core gameplay.

Hope that helps.

Edit: My hat is off to the CSM team for their hard hard work against these odds though. For this I salute you. o7



"Lag will always be an issue however EVE, but EVE is now, from a technical standpoint, in a better state than it has ever been."

If it weren't so sad, I'd laugh.

Valtis Thermalion
Caldari
Posted - 2010.07.12 17:11:00 - [16]
 

-It was mentioned by CCP that the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells better than new features.

-CCP stated that once Incarna and Planetary Interaction/Dust 514 are fully implemented, focus will probably shift far more towards improvement of existing features.

This makes me sad.

Sol Mahon
Caldari
State Protectorate
Posted - 2010.07.12 17:19:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Sol Mahon on 12/07/2010 17:21:13
First time reading the CSM minutes, lost all faith in the entire process, CCP get the CSM to do more than the CSM get CCP to do, Didn't realise it worked the wrong way round.

The next 18 months of CCP's schedule are already accounted for before the CSM even gets to Iceland, and all of this time is CCP doing what "they" want to do... What's the point of the CSM except to give inside information to CCP?

Originally by: Valtis Thermalion
-CCP stated that once Incarna and Planetary Interaction/Dust 514 are fully implemented, focus will probably shift far more towards improvement of existing features.


By existing features they mean Dust 514 and Incarna (once implemented)

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.07.12 17:30:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Batolemaeus
Originally by: Helicity Boson
Edited by: Helicity Boson on 12/07/2010 16:53:47
TL;DR = We are going to keep shoving our half finished and unneeded features down your throat for at least a year and a half longer before we even consider fixing all our broken poo poo and non-functional core gameplay.

Hope that helps.

Edit: My hat is off to the CSM team for their hard hard work against these odds though. For this I salute you. o7



"Lag will always be an issue however EVE, but EVE is now, from a technical standpoint, in a better state than it has ever been."

If it weren't so sad, I'd laugh.


Yeah. There were some positives in there, I mean some stuff that was good and encouraging, but what the ****, Oveur, this is supposed to be the game that you love. EVE is supposed to be the game that you guys created because it's what you wanted to play? What the **** are you thinking?

Cortante
Posted - 2010.07.12 17:38:00 - [19]
 

As usual, the minutes show that the CSM did not present one issue to improve the game and rather presented a series of whines about the state of content. I feel bad for CCP having to listen to these people complain, complain and complain without presenting anything constructive.

Glad to see the minutes show that CCP is giving the due attention to the CSM that it deserves: Zero.

Darveses
Fantastulousification Inc.
Posted - 2010.07.12 17:40:00 - [20]
 

Thanks for posting <3 YARRRR!!

Helicity Boson
Amarr
The Python Cartel.
The Defenders of Pen Island
Posted - 2010.07.12 17:50:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Cortante
As usual, the minutes show that the CSM did not present one issue to improve the game and rather presented a series of whines about the state of content. I feel bad for CCP having to listen to these people complain, complain and complain without presenting anything constructive.

Glad to see the minutes show that CCP is giving the due attention to the CSM that it deserves: Zero.


sekrit ccp alt detected.


Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.07.12 17:58:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Cortante
As usual, the minutes show that the CSM did not present one issue to improve the game and rather presented a series of whines about the state of content. I feel bad for CCP having to listen to these people complain, complain and complain without presenting anything constructive.

Glad to see the minutes show that CCP is giving the due attention to the CSM that it deserves: Zero.


Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Lornnar
Posted - 2010.07.12 18:34:00 - [23]
 

"CSM remained unconvinced of CCPs commitment to excellence, even after Nathan's arguments were heard. CCP disagreed strongly with the claim that it isn’t committed to excellence and feels that the resources being used to constantly improve Eve Online are a clear sign of this commitment."

"The CSM suggested a dedicated ”polish team“ to be established, with players being informed as to what they intend to work on during each expansion. CCP´s answer to that is that there will be no polish patrol team for the next 2-3 expansions even though players feel there should be."

but they put as much ressources into EVE atm, ok^^

Dariah Stardweller
Gallente
NO U111 Enterprises
Posted - 2010.07.12 18:55:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Helicity Boson
Edited by: Helicity Boson on 12/07/2010 16:53:47
TL;DR = We are going to keep shoving our half finished and unneeded features down your throat for at least a year and a half longer before we even consider fixing all our broken poo poo and non-functional core gameplay.

That´s basicly what I got out of it yeah. Crying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sad

Delilah Wild
Posted - 2010.07.12 19:09:00 - [25]
 

As I read through these minutes, I see alot of hard work and good ideas.

Lets give this CSM the time it needs to start pushing change forward. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Delilah
friendsofeve.wordpress.com

Helicity Boson
Amarr
The Python Cartel.
The Defenders of Pen Island
Posted - 2010.07.12 19:12:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Delilah Wild
As I read through these minutes, I see alot of hard work and good ideas.

Lets give this CSM the time it needs to start pushing change forward. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Delilah
friendsofeve.wordpress.com


If these minutes did not make it abundantly clear that there is no "pushing" to be had, you are seriously delusional.


Dakisha
The NomNomNom
Posted - 2010.07.12 19:14:00 - [27]
 

And here is what is wrong with the CSM:

Originally by: CSM Minutes

CCP responded that things do take time and although it might not look like it, CSM items in the backlog do get addressed and result in changes to the game when the timing is right related to development planning and resource availability


When it happens to fit nicely in to whatever you're currently doing.. As opposed to realising that these are the biggest issues that the players of eve have managed to get the CSM to bring up, and put dedicated resources on the job.

This is also why the CSM will continue to fail to gain the full support/trust of the playerbase. They were hobbled from the outset.

Dzajic
Gallente
Posted - 2010.07.12 19:18:00 - [28]
 

This is a disaster, I wouldn't expect ActiBlizz to act that foolish. We need a mother of all thrednaughts in GD.

CCP said that they won't fix/improve anything relating to LowSec, Faction Warfare and 0.0 for next year and a half at least. Nor will there be time to fix many minor bugs and issues nor for any improvements to UI.

Only thing to expect in next 18 months is minor tweaks to PI, and maybe something called "combat expansion" that if I understood correctly, isn't a major UI change but just improvements to combat notifications and stuff.

Everything that CSM pointed out is a critical issue has been completely ignored by CCP or brushed off with "not in next 18 months".

We need a mother of all trednaughts in GD and entire CSM resigning unanimously.

OK, Dust is separate game (even though it has taken critical amount of resources form EVE) and CCP invested a lot and will be ****ed if they don't get it out and recover at least some of money invested in it. They won't make money on it, console shooter market is oversaturated by AAA titles of big publishers that have marketing budgets higher then CCPs yearly totals. But still, maybe CCP will sell enough boxes to recover some of money spent on it.

But Incarna is for us, the EVE players, and no one really cared about it ever. It was a nice gimmick promised for distant future. Does anyone understand how insane does "nothing will be fixed or improved for at least next 18 months" sond?

CSM was supposed to be voice of players to CCP, CCP completely ignored it, what are we left with? :(

Dakisha
The NomNomNom
Posted - 2010.07.12 19:28:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Dzajic
lots of good stuff


Dust, a game PC owners wont even be able to play - and walking in stations, something players stopped giving a **** about years ago - are both taking all the dev time away from the real game.

Thus leaving CCP with no dev time to put into real issues affecting here and now.

Unfortunately CCP have their heads up their asses on this one and I don't see this changing. They've effectively commited to abandoning eve for the next 1 1/2 to 2 years because they've got so much tied up with dust/incarna - that much was made clear in the minutes..

They seem to think we can be won over with shinys - and to a degree, it is unfortunately true. Dust is just a shiny we're not going to have access to, so they seem to have forgotten that we're not going to be too happy that all the devs are ****ing around with that instead.

Do CCP really think we want WIS over fixing any one of the major issues they made vauge promises over in the csm? Try fixing what the players raise as issues instead of giving us half assed mini games (which is all incarna will be for a long time).

Helicity Boson
Amarr
The Python Cartel.
The Defenders of Pen Island
Posted - 2010.07.12 20:51:00 - [30]
 

Just for the sake of irony, I have lifted the following from the company page:

Quote:
ABOUT US

CCP was founded in the summer of 1997 with the goal of becoming a leading massively multiplayer game company. With the launch of EVE Online in May 2003, CCP has established itself as one of the leading companies in the field, winning numerous awards and receiving critical acclaim worldwide.

CCP is dedicated to the development of cutting edge massively multiplayer games. CCP is founded on the principle of pushing the envelope and breaking new grounds on all levels. CCP is not about making copycat products with compromised quality. CCP is about making dreams become a reality.


Massively multiplayer games are virtual realities. They are about creating experiences unattainable in any other form of media. A virtual reality is about true human interaction and true human emotions in a living and evolving world. It is CCP's belief that massively multiplayer games are the biggest revolution in computer gaming history and CCP is dedicated to make the dream of a true virtual reality come into being.

CCP's mission is to attract and retain customers by providing top quality online entertainment. CCP does this by establishing and nurturing a trust relationship with customers both in terms of quality of content as well as quality of service.

CCP encourages respect, dialog, interaction and cooperation on a deeper level between its employees and customers than is common in online games. By this and through this CCP provides a unique way for improving the quality of its products and creates an inspiring and challenging environment for talent to thrive.

We care more. We work harder



(emphasis mine)


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