open All Channels
seplocked EVE Information Portal
blankseplocked New Dev Blog: PLEX? In my space? It's more likely than you think.
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : ... 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 : last (12)

Author Topic

durazell
Posted - 2010.07.10 17:45:00 - [241]
 

Ban plex/isk conversion asap. Money can't be bought in the bank. You need to WORK for your isk/dollars or macro economics get seriously disturbed. Ingame or outgame.

Valkerias
Posted - 2010.07.10 17:56:00 - [242]
 

Originally by: Worn Xeno

Looking from the programming perspective it is always a nice thing to remove a special case. So it is good.



So there's going to be other items in game that can be redeemed for game time? Or other methods to generate PLEX than buying them with REAL currency?

Until either of those conditions is met, it IS a "special case" item. PERIOD. The timing of this "change" is at best suspicious. If CCP was a political party, this would be called a "pork barrel" project. That means something new and shiny so the "great unwashed" don't notice all the other glaring problems or issues. That STINKS, CCP. Fix the problems and issues first and THEN look at the "asthecics."

Rhok Relztem
Caldari
CGMA Synergist Syndicate
Posted - 2010.07.10 18:11:00 - [243]
 

Edited by: Rhok Relztem on 10/07/2010 18:25:05
Originally by: Valkerias
>SNIP<

Oh, and for those who think it's more economical to go subscription vs Plex.

Account 1: $15 USD/ month

Account 2: $50 USD/ month

Total $65 /month.

Two month ETC (converts to 2 plex in game) $35 USD. So why THIS change, why now? When there's so many other things to fix?

How are you paying $50.00 USD/ month for an account?

Subscription rates:
  • 1 month - $14.95 USD

  • 3 month - $38.85 USD

  • 6 month - $71.70 USD

  • 12 month - $131.40 USD

  • 2 month GTC (2 PLEX) - $34.99 USD

Subscriptions ARE cheaper. I have three accounts and all three use the 3-month plan... MUCH cheaper than PLEX (unless of course you make enough ISK ingame to buy your PLEX which then equals $0.00 USD - the best price by far Wink).

celebro
Gallente
Posted - 2010.07.10 19:22:00 - [244]
 

This is just a way for CCP to make more money. PLEX Prices will drop due to market competition and people will need to buy more for the same amount for RL money. There must have been a good reason to leave PLEX in station, why the sudden change.. again because they want more players to spend RL money.

PLEX is a special item in eve due to simple reason that you need RL money to get it, leave that way.

All players should just ignore these PLEX changes, and leave plex in station and show CCP we are the ones who are in control not them.

Azzma
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.07.10 19:27:00 - [245]
 

Great change.

If the Eve world is too harsh for you, then leave; 2 more people will hear about it and join.

celebro
Gallente
Posted - 2010.07.10 19:43:00 - [246]
 

This is not about the EVE world being harsh. Dont you realise they are letting you gamble ingame with RL bought items? Who said I was leaving anyway?



DeadRAM
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.07.10 19:45:00 - [247]
 

Lots of people are comparing real money to PLEX. Well, in that case, a Raven is worth about $10 US, a POS is about $30 US, etc... Losing a BPO could be upwards of $200 US. You can already lose real money if you lose anything in game. The "real" buyer of PLEXes will find his station, dock and redeem it, and sell it to a trader. The original purchaser will never be in a position to blow up. Then I will come to that station, and transport the PLEX to a place where I think it will sell really well. I will be taking the risk of losing money - in game money worth roughly the price of a PLEX... I will not be able to buy more PLEX with real life money, and the original purchaser has already made the money he wanted. Once I get to the target station I will sell the PLEX, and make a little profit. You will purchase the PLEX with your in game money, from the other side of the region, then fly your ship all the way back to earth and apply it to your account. You'll not risk anything when purchasing and apply the PLEX.

Simply put:
1) $10 USD is worth about 100,000,000isk
2) A PLEX worth 300,000,000isk and a POS worth 300,000,000 is worth about $30 USD and is worth the same, in game and in real life.
3) You don't need to risk anything buying or selling PLEX, the only risk is to people moving PLEX from station to station
4) Of the 5% or so of PLEXes that get destroyed, 5% will be the toon of the person who spent the real life money - the rest are traders like me, willing to risk it for profit.

--

I just assumed that $30 USD = 300m isk, if the numbers off it doesn't really matter, since the exchange rate is constant.

SupaKudoRio
Posted - 2010.07.10 20:03:00 - [248]
 

Originally by: Kimsemus
PLEX weigh 0.01m3. Move them in an uber tanked Battleship.

Well actually no, I fully believe that many of the crying carebears in this thread can't fly a Battleship.


Transport ships > Battleships. You can't be scanned or shot at while cloaked.

Valkerias
Posted - 2010.07.10 20:22:00 - [249]
 

Edited by: Valkerias on 10/07/2010 20:37:58
Originally by: Rhok Relztem
Edited by: Rhok Relztem on 10/07/2010 18:25:05
Originally by: Valkerias
>SNIP<

Oh, and for those who think it's more economical to go subscription vs Plex.

Account 1: $15 USD/ month

Account 2: $50 USD/ month

Total $65 /month.

Two month ETC (converts to 2 plex in game) $35 USD. So why THIS change, why now? When there's so many other things to fix?

How are you paying $50.00 USD/ month for an account?

Subscription rates:
  • 1 month - $14.95 USD

  • 3 month - $38.85 USD

  • 6 month - $71.70 USD

  • 12 month - $131.40 USD

  • 2 month GTC (2 PLEX) - $34.99 USD

Subscriptions ARE cheaper. I have three accounts and all three use the 3-month plan... MUCH cheaper than PLEX (unless of course you make enough ISK ingame to buy your PLEX which then equals $0.00 USD - the best price by far Wink).


Your price schedule is true only on the first account. On the other accounts it's considerably higher unles you've got something "unusual" going with your financing or you've got an unusually long extension of the "power of two" promotion going. Last time I checked, the subscription options on a second and further account is $49.95 per month.

Oftherocks
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
Posted - 2010.07.10 20:46:00 - [250]
 

Originally by: Valkerias
Edited by: Valkerias on 10/07/2010 20:37:58
Originally by: Rhok Relztem
Edited by: Rhok Relztem on 10/07/2010 18:25:05
Originally by: Valkerias
>SNIP<

Oh, and for those who think it's more economical to go subscription vs Plex.

Account 1: $15 USD/ month

Account 2: $50 USD/ month

Total $65 /month.

Two month ETC (converts to 2 plex in game) $35 USD. So why THIS change, why now? When there's so many other things to fix?

How are you paying $50.00 USD/ month for an account?

Subscription rates:
  • 1 month - $14.95 USD

  • 3 month - $38.85 USD

  • 6 month - $71.70 USD

  • 12 month - $131.40 USD

  • 2 month GTC (2 PLEX) - $34.99 USD

Subscriptions ARE cheaper. I have three accounts and all three use the 3-month plan... MUCH cheaper than PLEX (unless of course you make enough ISK ingame to buy your PLEX which then equals $0.00 USD - the best price by far Wink).


Your price schedule is true only on the first account. On the other accounts it's considerably higher unles you've got something "unusual" going with your financing or you've got an unusually long extension of the "power of two" promotion going. Last time I checked, the subscription options on a second and further account is $49.95 per month.


Second and further accounts cost the same as first account crack head. I mean seriously, who would pay $50/month for a second account.Rolling Eyes

Cresalle
Posted - 2010.07.10 21:17:00 - [251]
 

Hmm...

Why didn't you just allow PLEX to be redeemed at player owned stations and outposts? The place isn't going anywhere and the PLEX can be interacted with remotely.

Anyway at least put a warning message on undock. Something along the lines of "Undocking with PLEX is a really stupid thing to do. Are you an idiot? (y/n)"

dcell
Posted - 2010.07.10 21:43:00 - [252]
 

Not sure that would survive a Credit Card Challenge if the PLEX got blown up. My bank requires proof of delivery of goods/services for items purchased. I know I would only consider the service delivered once I either sold the item on the market (transferring reciept of the item to someone else) or recieved the subscription increase.

The PLEX item is not the good/service that is purchased, it is simply an intermediary product. I don't think my Bank would side with you on the issue. Good luck anyway!

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.07.10 21:59:00 - [253]
 

Originally by: dcell
The PLEX item is not the good/service that is purchased, it is simply an intermediary product.
True. The GTC is, and you would have to have received that one (which would be proven by the fact that you had something to convert into a PLEX) in order for the goods/services purchased to be delivered.

Onixun
Posted - 2010.07.10 22:03:00 - [254]
 

Edited by: Onixun on 10/07/2010 22:06:07
Originally by: Meltan

- No, you wouldn't. Try starting with "Hello World".



Har har... If you have even seen the State of GA in the USA, then you would know what I mean... CCP hires them for the lowest bidder. The state itself is cutting a 1/3 of it's budget for education, and the quality in such education is about as good as a Larry the Cable guy sketch (I WISH I was being sarcastic with that one...)

Point is, CCP found that people would literally farm the **** out of ISK if it meant for a free MMO game... The first solution would be to 'nerf' the industry side of EVE and make it 'risky'.. (actually, I think being a pirate is more safer than a being a miner in a PvP sense... the best ehp a Hulk can get is under 20k, which is nothing compared to the damage a few battleships can dish out before SOV. members or even Concord can come in and save...)

Since that didn't work, and more and more people resorted to contract scamming in-game, CCP decided to 'nerf' the product as a whole, hoping it would become too expensive for anyone to buy, and so that when it gets 'removed' from the game, not many people would miss it...

One of the initial things CCP said about PLEX was that the objects were 'evil'... many took that as sarcasm. People didn't understand, however, that each PLEX is another $15 or so not being put into CCP bank. Initially, this wasn't a problem, but with so many in circulation now, it's easy to 0.0 mine on alts and make enough for all the characters and turn up in the green for the player at the end of the month. CCP loses money from PLEX bought in-game because of the amount in circulation, because people don't have to empty their RL wallets to play, only their ISK ones {or other player's wallets}... (In jest, I guess you could say these little things are the killers of EVE after all, but that's going on a limb there...)

Basically, CCP is using pirates to accomplish a task that the company doesn't want to admit: we made a mistake, we are losing money due to it, but we don't want the players to think we are going back on our word. Clearly, someone with as little and low quality in education can see this, (capitalistic intolerance, maybe?) idk why it isn't as apparent to the other players as of yet...




Course how does anyone make a point anymore when it's followed by "lol, wut? you mad bro? look tis dude mad, lulz!" >.>

Shawna Gray
Gallente
Posted - 2010.07.10 22:30:00 - [255]
 

Originally by: celebro
This is not about the EVE world being harsh. Dont you realise they are letting you gamble ingame with RL bought items? Who said I was leaving anyway?





You dont have to gamble any items if you dont want to. You can blow up titans worth how many plexes, so why not plexes too?

RaWBLooD
Posted - 2010.07.10 23:58:00 - [256]
 

Originally by: Onixun
Edited by: Onixun on 10/07/2010 22:06:07
Originally by: Meltan

- No, you wouldn't. Try starting with "Hello World".



Har har... If you have even seen the State of GA in the USA, then you would know what I mean... CCP hires them for the lowest bidder. The state itself is cutting a 1/3 of it's budget for education, and the quality in such education is about as good as a Larry the Cable guy sketch (I WISH I was being sarcastic with that one...)

Point is, CCP found that people would literally farm the **** out of ISK if it meant for a free MMO game... The first solution would be to 'nerf' the industry side of EVE and make it 'risky'.. (actually, I think being a pirate is more safer than a being a miner in a PvP sense... the best ehp a Hulk can get is under 20k, which is nothing compared to the damage a few battleships can dish out before SOV. members or even Concord can come in and save...)

Since that didn't work, and more and more people resorted to contract scamming in-game, CCP decided to 'nerf' the product as a whole, hoping it would become too expensive for anyone to buy, and so that when it gets 'removed' from the game, not many people would miss it...

One of the initial things CCP said about PLEX was that the objects were 'evil'... many took that as sarcasm. People didn't understand, however, that each PLEX is another $15 or so not being put into CCP bank. Initially, this wasn't a problem, but with so many in circulation now, it's easy to 0.0 mine on alts and make enough for all the characters and turn up in the green for the player at the end of the month. CCP loses money from PLEX bought in-game because of the amount in circulation, because people don't have to empty their RL wallets to play, only their ISK ones {or other player's wallets}... (In jest, I guess you could say these little things are the killers of EVE after all, but that's going on a limb there...)

Basically, CCP is using pirates to accomplish a task that the company doesn't want to admit: we made a mistake, we are losing money due to it, but we don't want the players to think we are going back on our word. Clearly, someone with as little and low quality in education can see this, (capitalistic intolerance, maybe?) idk why it isn't as apparent to the other players as of yet...




Course how does anyone make a point anymore when it's followed by "lol, wut? you mad bro? look tis dude mad, lulz!" >.>


I am not sure if you are a ninja or simply unaware that every PLEX has to be bought with real money to get into the game.

Arquem
Posted - 2010.07.11 00:31:00 - [257]
 

I am wondering , doesnt CCP concider the use of a PLEX as a physical money loss? Did you guys get so big that lossing actual money is a no biggy?ugh

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.07.11 00:35:00 - [258]
 

Originally by: Arquem
I am wondering , doesnt CCP concider the use of a PLEX as a physical money loss?
Why would they?

Onixun
Posted - 2010.07.11 02:12:00 - [259]
 

Quote:
I am not sure if you are a ninja or simply unaware that every PLEX has to be bought with real money to get into the game.


First off... I don't understand half of the 'forum warrior' lingo you people speak, as I don't waste my time trolling "interweb" sites for 'fun'... (I also have a bad habit of speaking in paragraphs, so my points are usually disregarded due to people's laziness)...

Secondly... PLEX purchases do two things that hurts what CCP needs monthly in order to keep the game afloat: monthly payments, and sustained quarterly income....

What does that mean? Well, unlike EVE, money IRL is a bit harder to come by. CCP has to pay bills for several things each and every month in order to keep the game online (advertising, staff wages, taxes, building fees, etc.) Each month, CCP has bills like everyone else...

Alright, now let's assuming that the general population (let's be optimistic and say that number is 50,000) of EVE buys PLEX to top off their characters for the month, but lets also say that not only do they use it to pay for the next month, but the next 5 years...

So the math would be: 6 (PLEX's come in pairs) * 5 * $30 (rounded cost)

$900 per person.
900*50,000 = $45,000,000

Well, that's a big number, you say... here's the CATCH. That number is a stagnant amount. These players don't have to pay again for the next 5 years of EVE play. So CCP income has been based in one large payment. Per month, however, the number is less impressive...

45,000,000/(12*5 or 60) = $750,000 a month

That's about the income worth of about 15-20 qualified programers. That doesn't include advertising, marketing cost, and other media/job positions used with the game.



It's a bit of a flimsy theory, I know, but the point is, the PLEX 'buy-all-at-one-time' system messes with how CCP gains income in the typical MMO sense. While they all must the purchased in order to get into TQ, the fact that the amount of steady income gets changed drastically, as the player has the option of by-passing some of the hurdles of the normal subscribing system (granted, there is a 24 hour wait on each purchase, but if you buy 6 at a time for about a couple of weeks straight, you can reach this goal...). For a company (which works in quarters, not months) this looks bad in terms of investors, salaries, and other things needed to run the game...

I know there are other variables to consider, but at the moment this was my best explanation to what I said earlier about PLEX being a ****-up on CCP's part that they 'need to clean up'. Shotty, I know, but I know the PLEX system is greatly exploitable somehow and it's costing them money. Do forgive me if I don't know the exact specifics as of yet...

Sarah Moonshine
doMAL S.A.
Posted - 2010.07.11 02:20:00 - [260]
 

This. Is. Freaking. Awesome.

But we still won't let you gimp our carriers and mommies, Zulupark, so forget about it.

Blackstorms
Posted - 2010.07.11 04:01:00 - [261]
 

I just want to comment on a couple things.

1) PLEX are not like any other game item. It is the only item which can give you more subscription time. When my account is due, you want either $15 or a PLEX. It's not like I can give you a Rattlesnake BPC to cover my account for the month. The item is special; if you want people to be able to move them and have them be gankable, that's fine, but don't act like the item doesn't have a unique property.

2) This change, like everything else in Eve, is going to hit noobs the hardest. Not only do they lack knowledge about suicide ganking, but they have low skillpoints and will probably not have the ability to fly any kind of "safe" transport. You will have more than one new player throw these in their Iteron, undock, and get promptly blown up. Veterans know what to expect from the game, that dude who's been playing for a few months does not. As RL money is involved, expect very emotional responses.

Tread carefully.

Ramman K'arojic
Posted - 2010.07.11 04:08:00 - [262]
 

I am dubious about the benefits; but agree with the economics.

I STONGLY suggest that before you undock a warning message is to be displayed just like with contraband.

Just my 2 cents worth


Ramm

Gerard Deneth
Caldari
Pavlov Labs GmBH
Independent Faction
Posted - 2010.07.11 04:52:00 - [263]
 

Originally by: Onixun

(math stuff omitted)

It's a bit of a flimsy theory, I know, but the point is, the PLEX 'buy-all-at-one-time' system messes with how CCP gains income in the typical MMO sense. While they all must the purchased in order to get into TQ, the fact that the amount of steady income gets changed drastically, as the player has the option of by-passing some of the hurdles of the normal subscribing system (granted, there is a 24 hour wait on each purchase, but if you buy 6 at a time for about a couple of weeks straight, you can reach this goal...). For a company (which works in quarters, not months) this looks bad in terms of investors, salaries, and other things needed to run the game...



Which is interesting except that large functioning businesses have quite a few ways to actually smooth and account for somewhat 'irregular' cash flows like GTCs (which are what make PLEXes in the first place). One of them is to simply recognize income only as the GTCs are actually 'consumed' on the market, a theoretical implementation of how this is done is beyond the purpose of this post, but reasonably doable without melting minds. The second thing is that CCP is not beholden to its investors in any manner similar to that of a public company. CCP Hf is completely privately held, has a proven record of meeting cash requirements and management needs(the deal with White Wolf would otherwise not have occurred, and neither could the massive expansion have been funded).

Clansworth
Good Rock Materials
Posted - 2010.07.11 05:04:00 - [264]
 

I still don't really see the reason someone would choose to use PLEX over a cheaper subscription for their account. Though as a means of RMT, it does make sense. I'd rather regulated, controlled RMT in the game, than out-of-game nonsense that was starting to run rampant when the PLEX hit the scene. Also, even if I WAS going to use PLEX for my subscription, I still don't see a reason to ever leave a station with it.

Alice Celadon
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.07.11 06:00:00 - [265]
 

Originally by: Onixun


First off... I don't understand


Confirmed.

Any accountant one month or or econ/business major six months in knows why this is ridiculous bluster.

Here's a hint: There are assets and liability rows on the spreadsheet.

Second hint: To the outrage of libertarians, the IRS collects extra tax throughout the year, then refunds at the end. The IRS is f-bomb smart. Go figure out what they're doing, then please be quiet.

Caine Dreamwalker
Gallente
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2010.07.11 06:55:00 - [266]
 

That's awesome! ^__^
But still PLEX can be activated from any place by right-clicking on it in assets - so if you have it, you can make private contract to anybody and there will be no need to transport it. So, CCP, can you please also remove ability to activate it from any place and allow activation only when you're on the same station? ^^

Worn Xeno
Posted - 2010.07.11 08:50:00 - [267]
 

I see it this way:
CCP is taking the training wheels off.
If you are stupid (or daring) enough to leave station with a PLEX onboard - it's your own fault.
Nobody forces you to undock with PLEX in your cargohold.

Atmega
Caldari
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.07.11 08:57:00 - [268]
 

Massive newbee enoragequitting Crying or Very sad

Gimme Urstuff
Amarr
Iwant Urstuff Corp
Posted - 2010.07.11 10:17:00 - [269]
 

Edited by: Gimme Urstuff on 11/07/2010 10:17:50
I was just wondering, since y'all have incorporated in the good ole USofA if you actually hired any american lawyers? So, your going to put an item with a specific dollar value, sold by you, into your game, which your EMPLOYEES AND MANAGERS play, and let them steal it? I can't wait for the legal lulz.

But sure I'll steal some too. Just hope some demopublican prosecutor doesn't throw me in jail.

Twisted Evil


Sky Marshal
IMpAct Corp
Not Found.
Posted - 2010.07.11 10:54:00 - [270]
 

Originally by: Simon Boon
While I agree with most of the de-restrictions on plexes, their transportation and possible destruction troubles me greatly.

My concern is not for myself, but for all the young, naive, and stupid players out there. Unlike all other items in game, plexes are created by real life money. Therefore I think its right that players buying plexes get some protection from the various forms of nefarious play. While I think stupid players should have vast amounts of ISK exploded, taking, what equates to real life money, would seem a little cruel.

I'm also a little concerned about the reasons for CCP to make this change. Allowing plexes to be destroyed, means that CCP can remove game time that has been legitimately purchased, in good faith, using real money. A crude, real life example, would be a company ripping up your ticket before letting you in to a concert.

If CCP are serious about making plexes like other in game items, then there should be some way they can be created in game play, thus breaking the relationship between plexes and real life money.

I'm also a little confused about why resources have been allocated to this. There are many other in game problems that should get a far higher priority than this.

This blog has left a particularly bad taste Sad


/Quoted For Truth. It is the most rational statement available.


Pages: first : previous : ... 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 : last (12)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only