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Cryptkiller
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.07.09 23:24:00 - [181]
 

I love you Zulu, its like you really get me.

Best change ever.

Eledran Drake
Caldari
CONQUISTADORS
Posted - 2010.07.09 23:24:00 - [182]
 

Edited by: Eledran Drake on 09/07/2010 23:28:37
Edited by: Eledran Drake on 09/07/2010 23:25:18
Edited by: Eledran Drake on 09/07/2010 23:24:53
I will give my two cents as a review of this new change to the plex system.....

Quote:
We will remove the restriction on undocking from a station with a PLEX in your cargo hold


Well, if you want to sell them you will redeem where you want to sell them, avoiding a suicide. And if you want to buy.... you will probably go Jita 4-4.
It will allow both:
  • People who redeem plex for the first time and make the mistake of not doing so at a profitable location to correct this.

  • Would allow some confident pvp-based players to give themselves a bounty as plex in their cargos.
  • [/list]

    This point = Intresting....

    Quote:
    We will remove the restriction that PLEX cannot be put into courier contracts


    I must disagree with this point. Ok, the collateral for plexes will be worth their value, but many will mix plex and other items on courier contracts, and the one carring out the courier cannot know the package contentains a plex untill he has agreed to do it.

    So I would suggest adding a warning of some kind if you are gonna accept a contract with plexes.

    Why? Becouse you will be a high-profile target. Many campers will probably only shoot to plex shippers.... Just because they will not shoot to someone shipping about 10M tritanium, as it is uncollectable by campers - they probably use combat ships at all times, not hauling veesels... But plex? Just one could be able to give back the value of all the ships at the camp..... and its low volume is a plus for the ganking.

    Ok, some blueprints worth more than that, but those are not let into couriers and probably carried by well tanked ships....


    About the rest.... a great change CCP, whatever I do not use ISK in order to keep my suscription....

Br0wn 0ps
Posted - 2010.07.09 23:33:00 - [183]
 

Edited by: Br0wn 0ps on 09/07/2010 23:36:00
Umm, considering we have to pay r/l money for these items, vs ISK for ships/items/etc., you are directly affecting items that people paid r/l money for, hence you are affecting r/l money. This is bad, imho. Lots of people will be a lot madder about this than say a capital ship loss.

Instead, why don't you allow us to apply them FROM ANYWHERE. So we can buy them via contracts or markets, and apply them from stations or space.

If you insist on going this route, then you might as well let us buy other ingame items for r/l money, or skillpoints, or characters...

Oh, and +1 for increasing r/l revenue potential by letting PLEX be destroyed....lol

Widemouth Deepthroat
Posted - 2010.07.09 23:45:00 - [184]
 

Edited by: Widemouth Deepthroat on 09/07/2010 23:45:57
:D

Was expecting some horrible news which meant I might have to cut back on the number of accounts lol.

edit: to above poster, you can apply from anywhere by right click the plex in assets.

Shinma Apollo
BURN EDEN
Posted - 2010.07.09 23:49:00 - [185]
 

This is a pretty **** change, it requires us to believe it's not a pure money grab that ccp won't tool the drop rate on these to DIAF every time so someone has to shell more money.

Mbainrot
Posted - 2010.07.09 23:52:00 - [186]
 

<3

Is all I can say :)

Thank you

Krod Mandoon
Posted - 2010.07.09 23:53:00 - [187]
 

Heh maybe it's time to start mfg cargo hold scanners, brutix's and medium t2 blasters to sell in empire... If I profit from suicide gankers buying my stuff am I complicit in their crimes? oh nevermind ...who cares anyway...now where did I put those BPC's?

I SoStoned
Caldari
Posted - 2010.07.09 23:59:00 - [188]
 

Edited by: I SoStoned on 10/07/2010 00:03:26
I strongly oppose the idea that PLEX may survive the destruction of a ship carrying it. To many players that's real money, not just mere ISK, and affects their gameplay directly by preventing them from making use of it, and rewarding suicide ganking directly. It's already a rather annoying problem as it is, but by dropping these items they are rewarded with free game time!

If a ship carrying one is destroyed it should never drop, period. It should be destroyed every time.

Big thumbs down on that idea.

Originally by: Br0wn 0ps
Instead, why don't you allow us to apply them FROM ANYWHERE. So we can buy them via contracts or markets, and apply them from stations or space.


This guy has the right idea. Eliminate the need to haul them anywhere and make them redeemable wherever the pilot chooses.

Also, all courier contract containers should allow the purchaser to view if there is a PLEX in the contract or not as well as the quantity. Otherwise there will be thousands of 1 tritanium courier contracts out there masquerading as PLEX couriers.

Heck, all courier contract contents should be viewable by the party choosing to transport them. The contents can already be scanned in cargo, so everyone except the hauling pilot can see what they contain.

Raithius
Caldari
Creep Fleet Inc
Hedonistic Imperative
Posted - 2010.07.10 00:45:00 - [189]
 

Originally by: Raiiden
ONLY CCP UNDERSTANDS ME! YARRRR!!YARRRR!!YARRRR!!


B Smoke's alt better watch his ass from now on rofl YARRRR!!YARRRR!!YARRRR!!

Global Comms
Posted - 2010.07.10 00:46:00 - [190]
 

Edited by: Global Comms on 10/07/2010 00:53:36
Pointless change if you can activate these remotley

YES! THERE IS A CHANCE OF AN ITEM DROPPING WHICH WILL NEVER LEAVE A STATION!!!

Also its irrelevant for suiciders as they could simply gank for items worth 300 mill and buy a plex if thats what they wanted

You wont have anyone sat out on a gate waiting specificaly for plex

Courier contracts wont be effected either - thats what the collateral is in place for. Hauling party needs only to double click on the package to see what hes hauling.

Even if you couldnt see - it dosent matter if your hauling a plex - or a 360 mill faction mod - Your a target carrying either and standard hauling saftey rules applye (hint dont go afk)

This thread is full of clueless folks, quite saddening really

SupaKudoRio
Posted - 2010.07.10 00:54:00 - [191]
 

Edited by: SupaKudoRio on 10/07/2010 00:56:17
Personally, I think this is a bad idea. Though I don't have all the facts and, besides, no one will be silly enough to undock with PLEX unless it's absolutely necessary... right?

Sorry, but I see no need for allowing that at all.

I predict reimbursement petitions will go up, as people lose them and (since they ARE special; no other item in EVE adds game time, they're completely unique and very valuable for that reason) try to claim them back.

Just allowing people to undock with special items doesn't make them less special. It just makes them FAR easier to lose (unless that's the intent for a little extra revenue, in which case, excellently played Laughing).

Haseo Arashi
Posted - 2010.07.10 01:09:00 - [192]
 

Edited by: Haseo Arashi on 10/07/2010 01:13:52
Originally by: Matalino

PS: Destroyed PLEX = free money for CCP. Makes good business sense as well as game balance sense. Wink


^This.

and if you are afraid of losing them. Use an orca.
or dont move it. if you are using it for pure game time then there is no need to change your daily operation. however the price of plexs vary greatly (sometimes 50mil+) between regions and tradehubs. so for traders this is an incredible chance at profit. and with an orca as previously mentioned the risk is pretty damn low.

NicklesBe
Posted - 2010.07.10 01:22:00 - [193]
 

Anyone else got the the feeling that this is going to destroy the value of plex? I highly doubt it will be worth nearly as much now. However Im sure it will still cost at least 30 bucks still IRL. However in game I doubt it would still be at the 300mil mark it is now. So this change will definitely put a huge dent in or kill plex trade all together.

Necromancy Black
Posted - 2010.07.10 01:34:00 - [194]
 

So I can still redeem a plex from anywhere in the galaxy,
In other words no one is ever forced to undock with a plex and can just leave them where they buy them.

So, we've got the exact same system as before except now we can move them around a bit and hopefully get some market differences happening.
The problem with this is what? It brings the item into line with pretty much everything else in EVE and you can still acquire and trade them just fine without ever undocking with one.

If they had removed the fact that you could redeem a plex anywhere this would be crap. They haven't so it's just added features without removing any of the old ones.

Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
Posted - 2010.07.10 01:41:00 - [195]
 

Guess this is confirmation that PLEX were putting undue pressure on CCP to chase new subscribers.

Hopefully with PLEX being blown up CCP will have breathing room to focus on fixing old code instead of being fixated on new users with each expansion.

qqwq3dsdw3
Posted - 2010.07.10 01:44:00 - [196]
 

this you spend time on , but fixing the current state of the servers and code that pretty much making the game unplayabel is not on the agenda !?

wake up and fix the damn server , that peeps can loose plex now just means more money to ccp , nothing else ...


Governor Arnie
Posted - 2010.07.10 02:47:00 - [197]
 

Edited by: Governor Arnie on 10/07/2010 02:49:51
So I guess everyone is saying they are all right with the fact that something that can be purchased with REAL money, can be lost in the game, destroyed, that is, when we are already paying $15/month. If that's the case, I will give out my paypal account, and you can just start donating $35/month there instead of losing it in game. It's CCP's way of making MORE money off a game that is still laggy and full of bugs after 7 years, I mean seriously, look at Tyrannis, Alienware computers now flash according to game events, yet how many bugs that have existed for 1,2,3 or more years still go unfixed. This isn't about making it a sought after item in ship ganks, its just a way for CCP to make more out of an already over priced game. I don't mind losing game items, it happens, life goes on, but a PLEX that was bought for $35, I think not.

Sire Magnus
Posted - 2010.07.10 02:53:00 - [198]
 

Originally by: TimT77
Edited by: TimT77 on 09/07/2010 17:42:52
Originally by: Quetazal
I am so against this move its unreal.

A destroyed plex is bad for the players - but to CCP it is a free 15$

I can see the business logic here (greed); playerA gets a plex destroyed, playerA replaces it and uses too; so they have (indirectly) paid CCP 30$ instead of the 15$ for one month Sub.

If Plexes could not get destroyed upon drop I would be all for this btw.

Greedy and a needless change from our overseers imo.


Good business sense from CCP.


The plex system is an exchange of real world currency for real world services. It is appalling that CCP is pretending that it's a game item just because they have given it an in-game representation.

EACH PLEX REPRESENTS CCP's OBLIGATION TO DELIVER 30 DAYS OF GAME TIME.

Failure to honor that obligation by any means or mechanic CCP controls can only be classified as THEFT or GAMBLING. CCP should go back and look at what happened to Linden Labs when the US government found out that in-game currency was being used in secondlife to gamble for things with real-world value. (for those who dont want to go look it up, gambling in game was banned in order for the game to stay available online in america)

Taladool
Minmatar
JIta-Hosting
Posted - 2010.07.10 03:08:00 - [199]
 

Edited by: Taladool on 10/07/2010 03:11:38
Originally by: Sire Magnus
Originally by: TimT77
Edited by: TimT77 on 09/07/2010 17:42:52
Originally by: Quetazal
I am so against this move its unreal.

A destroyed plex is bad for the players - but to CCP it is a free 15$

I can see the business logic here (greed); playerA gets a plex destroyed, playerA replaces it and uses too; so they have (indirectly) paid CCP 30$ instead of the 15$ for one month Sub.

If Plexes could not get destroyed upon drop I would be all for this btw.

Greedy and a needless change from our overseers imo.


Good business sense from CCP.


The plex system is an exchange of real world currency for real world services. It is appalling that CCP is pretending that it's a game item just because they have given it an in-game representation.

EACH PLEX REPRESENTS CCP's OBLIGATION TO DELIVER 30 DAYS OF GAME TIME.

Failure to honor that obligation by any means or mechanic CCP controls can only be classified as THEFT or GAMBLING. CCP should go back and look at what happened to Linden Labs when the US government found out that in-game currency was being used in secondlife to gamble for things with real-world value. (for those who dont want to go look it up, gambling in game was banned in order for the game to stay available online in america)


Its like this,

By undocking you agree to non-consensual pvp.
By undocking with a plex you agree to non-consensual pvp, and agree that the plex is no longer considered game time to you but it is instead considered isk by you, or you would have used it either by
A. Before you undocked
B. Remotely

Since it is considered isk, and not game time to you, its free game. If you still consider it game time, then you should use it and shutup, there is no good reason to move a plex around that you want to use for game time, just apply it and be done with it.

Now you might say you redeemed a plex and wanted to sell it somewhere else, well guess what, you have to take that risk or use the completely risk free method of moving yourself to the location you want to sell it before you redeem it.

Nothing has changed here, except, people can now choose to buy PLEX's off the market and move them to sell them in different regions for a higher margin.

How does that effect you as the original plex owner? It doesn't, And for the traders its the same risk they take every day with any other high value goods.

Don't fly (or transport) what you cant afford to lose and HTFU or STFU and GTFO


EDIT: Stupid sig, adding line breaks to move the sig away from the text in my post..


TheDoctorUK
Gallente
BSC LEGION
Split Infinity.
Posted - 2010.07.10 03:11:00 - [200]
 

Bad Bad Bad Idea, just make it so you put plex in the redeem items and then pilot moves and redeems item back to move it.

It is a subscription, it is a special item, stop giving more reasons to get more pilots on gates.

Its bringing RL money past the undock into the game world and allowing it to be lost in a gamble can I move that item and not get ganked. As like some above me posted that's a gamble. Linden Labs had to do stuff drastic to there currency.

On the other hand, I know how to buy a plex, you have 3 character slots, isk is tradeable, plex never leaves station.

dragonwrath2k8
Posted - 2010.07.10 03:25:00 - [201]
 

Edited by: dragonwrath2k8 on 10/07/2010 03:30:04
This will inevitably cause a drop in the value of plex's. I for one approve, as this will intern cause a drop in how much grinding i do to NOT pay to play. Thanks for the win ccp.

edit: though i do agree that you did it in your interest and not the players, you naughty capitalists Wink

Ms Doubrah
Posted - 2010.07.10 03:33:00 - [202]
 

Please, please, PLEASE CCP... allow PLEX to be redeemed in a POS at least, if not in the cargo hold. Do it for the peeps in w-space. Cool

Serpents smile
Posted - 2010.07.10 03:33:00 - [203]
 


Hmmm...
Think this is a nice moment to drop my carebear cloak.

Where am I stationed again? Oh, Amarr.Shocked

Amarryarr...
YARRRR!!


To be honest, since there is no need, at all, ever, to fly around with a plex in your cargo, if you do, you're asking to get what you deserve. Laughing

Rhok Relztem
Caldari
CGMA Synergist Syndicate
Posted - 2010.07.10 03:43:00 - [204]
 

Edited by: Rhok Relztem on 10/07/2010 03:46:09
Good Lord people! Stop and think before going off the deep end and making idiotic assumptions and statements. The changes don't affect anything that is currently in place. You don't HAVE to move your PLEX and can redeem them from anywhere in the universe. If someone does actually decide to move their PLEX whether for the chance of greater profit by reselling or simply to store them someplace else, they do so knowing full well what the risk is - they could very well lose every PLEX on the ship. But to emphasize... YOU DO NOT NEED TO MOVE YOUR PLEX TO USE THEM!!! NOTHING CHANGES IN THAT REGARD! Geesh. Rolling Eyes

As for the fear (or hope) that the bottom will drop out of the market, it just won't happen. As much risk as there will be, there will still be those market players who will chance it. But they won't be moving all of their PLEX to the hubs. PLEX will start to show up at out of the way spots, in low-sec, and in 0.0, most likely at inflated prices, in the hopes of selling them to the outlaws and pirates who have difficulty getting to the hubs. The hubs' prices themselves will fluctuate up and down for awhile as the market players jockey for the best prices and quick sales, but due to more PLEX heading to the outer regions and only the most daring (or stupid depending on the situation) actually moving PLEX, the volume in the hubs may actually drop thus causing the price to eventiually settle higher than it is currently.

I noticed someone commenting about CCP spending time on this and not fixing the servers, bugs, etc. C'mon. Really. This is probably one of the easiest changes CCP has made in a long time. All that is being done is removing the special status restrictions from a few items. Nothing new is being added and very little code is being changed. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't doubt this was already coded and just sitting there waiting for the team to decide if and when to impliment it.

Finally, the idea that CCP sees this as a way to make a few extra bucks is ludicrous. I'd wager that very few PLEX will actually end up being destroyed since not many are going to risk moving them and losing them to gankers and pirates, and many that do get caught carrying them will almost certainly be willing to pay a handsome ransom rather than see their PLEX destroyed or looted. Granted, the few that do actually get destroyed is free money to CCP but it's just a drop in the bucket compared to all of the monthly subscriptions. So they make a few extra bucks. That's just more money that can go into developement and bug fixes.

Lederstrumpf
Posted - 2010.07.10 04:09:00 - [205]
 

Originally by: SupaKudoRio
I don't have all the facts


Yes.

Originally by: SupaKudoRio
besides, no one will be silly enough to undock with PLEX unless it's absolutely necessary... right?


No.

F90OEX
F9X
Posted - 2010.07.10 05:00:00 - [206]
 

I don't see what the big deal is about.

Mace Maddox
Posted - 2010.07.10 05:11:00 - [207]
 

Edited by: Mace Maddox on 10/07/2010 05:12:26
I dont see the big deal either in it. Not be able to undock with a plex in cargo was anoying. I would rather undock with it to get it to a different station to sell, or to pick up. But I would not like to see to be ganked with a plex in my cargo hold. Rather the plex should be destroyed then cause we already have alot of WoW gankers in Eve.

Myth Al'kar
ASCENTIS CORPORATION
Free Worlds Alliance
Posted - 2010.07.10 06:14:00 - [208]
 

Edited by: Myth Al''kar on 10/07/2010 06:16:24
WTF is a wow ganker?

Let's add more catchphrase without relevance!

It's a sandbox, so add more tritium and risk vs reward, so use hardners and as intended, pvp game, mine some ore htfu and jump clone to eve gate

Guyde
Posted - 2010.07.10 06:27:00 - [209]
 

Originally by: Callic Veratar
As long as there's a little warning that pops up that says:

"You're undocking with a plex, you're risking losing it by undocking with it."

I'm humming and hawing over this, but I think I'll support it. As a game, EVE tends to warn you the first time you try to do something stupid (e.g. shoot a gate in Empire), so a warning wouldn't be out of line. It should be the same as the other warnings in that you can choose to never see it again.

cBOLTSON
Star Frontiers
Posted - 2010.07.10 06:36:00 - [210]
 

I came in expecting something nasty.....and left with a big grin on my face!
Haha, CCP you guys really have an evil streak in you! This change is good imho :)


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