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Serpents smile
Posted - 2010.07.09 07:27:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Zendoren
yo CCP Blaze, click on your name and see the error message that pops up! Embarassed


He's obviously a spy. Embarassed

Huhuhuhuhuhuh
Posted - 2010.07.09 08:05:00 - [92]
 

Edited by: Huhuhuhuhuhuh on 09/07/2010 08:10:01
Edited by: Huhuhuhuhuhuh on 09/07/2010 08:06:57
Edited by: Huhuhuhuhuhuh on 09/07/2010 08:05:55
Reading this dev blog made me extremely sad.
Spend some money on QA it really pays out.
At least true-pvper's wont be running around without any repercussions with stuff like in this picture:
http://i26.tinypic.com/2vvkytd.jpg

Saman Ayan
Minmatar
Lazy.
Posted - 2010.07.09 09:57:00 - [93]
 

Supporting to have an option for map caching, there are a lot of people who rely on the maps (especially the explorers) but don't need the performance improvement.

Please stop taking out useful features just to make the game a bit more stable. the widescreen option is a good example of this.

Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2010.07.09 12:13:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: CCP Blaze
Overview changes

During these Singularity tests, the top issues reported by players were that the overview was updating too frequently and felt too "jerky," and that the fleet window was causing client lag.
And you good folks at CCP only discovered this after the "mass" tests on Singularity? Your players have been reporting this problem on these forums since the launch of Dominion -- months before the coordinated testing on Singularity.

Originally by: CCP Blaze
Upon investigation, we found out that fleet changes were causing a lot more UI updates than were necessary. Every time a player joined or left your fleet, your flat fleet member list and the overview were reloaded, and, in addition, all the brackets were refreshed as well as all the overview entries.
See above. This was a well-documented problem that players in large fleets were experiencing.

Originally by: CCP Blaze
This was only discovered a few days before Tyrannis was released, so we did not want to change too much at the time.
Seriously? I call your bull**** and raise you two tons of horse****.

Dominion was released December 1, 2009. The Fleet window issues were starting to be discussed on these forums in December and more heavily in January, 2010. How is it that this issue was "discovered" by CCP's paid professionals over five months after it was documented in these forums by paying customers?

And, no, CCP Atlas's dev blog on Dominion issues addressed only the tip of the iceberg of actual documented player experiences (not to mention a complete lack of follow-up). The Dominion Debacle was never truly addressed by CCP in a timely and comprehensive manner in either words or deeds. And the repairs are only now trickling into the game with as much misdirection from CCP personnel as is possible.

Is this business as usual at CCP?

Master Rad
Posted - 2010.07.09 14:15:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: Dacil Arandur
Originally by: Clansworth
I think my favorite phenomenon in all of eve is the ability for players to see that Dev Team B (client coders, in this case) is doing a good job, and instead of saying good job, the most common response is "Why are you wasting time on this when you should be working on the stuff that Team A (server coders) is working on".


This.

Great job CCP Blaze and team!
As was mentioned in previous dev blogs, what many people perceive as lag is often local to their computer. Any improvements to the performance of the client are great, and we all appreciate it!

Thanks again for the hard!


bolded the fun part.

u have seriously NEVER ever flown in a big fight, because if that is true what ur saying
then that means that my i7 core, the dual gtx295 in SLI mode and my 8GB RAM is not enough to run my client lag free... YEAH RIGHT!
also i confirm its my PC crashing the server, because my client is soo laggy... oh wait!

back to the issue:
CCP a good job on fixing client performance, however as stated before thats not the prime issue (eventho its nice to get more performance).
What i want to add tho, server side main issues (according to CCP tanis' neat thread about the testserver) are:
- no grid loading (the only of the issues that rly is a main issue)
- overview updating to often (lol ok, i would say its a jumpy overview when hitting CTRL but ok, its not laggy just annyoing)
- fleet window causing client lag (fixed)

what i miss rly tho is following:
- module lag, command lag (its that thing that lets u warp 5 minutes after issuing the cmd and that makes ur guns go stuck)
- nodes crashing (prolly mix of module lag and grid load stuff)

now i dunno if that is included in the "no grid loading" issues, or if its even caused by it.
it would be nice to get (maybe CCP Tanis' can do that cuz hes awesome and good at it) like an issues list with details,
that breaks it up a bit.

Also i rly admire devs doing blogs, tho i would prefer dev blogs that first roll out all the issues on a topic and then go into detail, not only about a part of an issue. In return i would accept if dev blogs wouldnt come out that regulary.

However, Server-Side lag has to be prime issue, testing PI and client side issues is nice, but we can do that later
i am prty sure if u guys at CCP would lay the focus for testing on the main issue and slam out a update on it, then u will
get more and more mass testers. Atm i feel somewhat used, i came to test for Serverside lag and had to test PI and client stuff...
NO THANK YOU!

hamon konakh
Posted - 2010.07.09 17:37:00 - [96]
 

So, albeit obvious: The Server side lage has been fixed?

C/D?

Or is this game still ****ed up?

Pr1ncess Alia
Posted - 2010.07.09 19:25:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: hamon konakh
So, albeit obvious: The Server side lage has been fixed?

C/D?

Or is this game still ****ed up?



Originally by: dev blog

All the changes mentioned in this blog are client-side only, and will not solve any server-client lag that might exist. However, that should make playing a more stable, faster and more enjoyable experience.



They don't even acknowledge the server issues.
Might as well let your subscription run out.

Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
Posted - 2010.07.09 22:57:00 - [98]
 

Edited by: Nova Fox on 09/07/2010 22:57:41
Please remember known and discovered are two entirely seperate things.

Known is faith based - They're taking your word on a problem that supposivily exists and there is a perchance it could be found, the more its reported the more likely its going to get looked into especially if its game breaking.

Analogy - You have a treasure map that has an X on it to mark the spot. You hear more and more rumors about the treasure being real so you set out to go find it. Small problem, you have no idea where that ice planet is described in the map, but you know its on a ice planet of some sort.

Discovered is factual - Seeing finding and actually being able to poke the issue and make it squirm.

Analogy - Lo and behold you actually hit the box with your shovel, and dug it out of its hole, now the problem is trying to open the box in an attempt to cause an accidental continuation of life as the box is heavily boobie trapped.

Taladool
Minmatar
JIta-Hosting
Posted - 2010.07.09 23:43:00 - [99]
 

Edited by: Taladool on 09/07/2010 23:44:26
Originally by: hamon konakh
So, albeit obvious: The Server side lage has been fixed?

C/D?

Or is this game still ****ed up?



Maybe if you moron-umm guys would take a minute to think, you would realize the people who program the client side rendering and gfx are not the same people who work on the server side. I wouldn't expect a part of the gfx team to know anything about the server team, the server or its issues.

Maybe you should be grateful that they are telling us anything at all. I mean everyone throws a ****fit wanting information about how eve works and what CCP is doing to make it better. When they give you what you want, what does the eve-online forum *****s do? they ****ing ***** about it and whine, why won't you fix my lag mister TECHNICAL GRAPHICS DEVELOPER!! Because you know, the guy working on the physics and graphics rendering would be a distributed network specialist am I right? RIGHT!!

Stop and think and be happy they tell us what they do. Rest assured there is more then one team working on eve, and throwing Graphics people on server issues, at lest to me, doesn't seem like a very good idea.


Edit: added a few line brakes to move my sig below the body of text.


Arin Fensfield
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.07.10 03:57:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: Taladool
<Above>


Here, here.

Lederstrumpf
Posted - 2010.07.10 05:34:00 - [101]
 

Edited by: Lederstrumpf on 10/07/2010 05:45:34
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=727
== snip ==
One of the most important things to keep in mind when you are in a system with heavy lag is that you should not hammer any buttons and you should try to execute as few commands as possible. If you are waiting for the grid to load the worst thing you can do is click buttons on the interface or chat in local. These actions will have a negative impact on your client's ability to recover (more to the point, on your session on the server). If you have an outstanding call you should wait for it to complete, and it will complete eventually.
[..]
Calls typically time out in 8 minutes and this is true of the request for the simulation instance (grid). If you have waited for 8 minutes for the grid to load you will not recover. If you have the monitor open and see the Outstanding number drop to 0 and your grid doesn"t load then you have no choice but to relog, and even that might not fix things if the server is still overloaded.
== snip ==

So in the meantime the Technical Director of CCP, Jon Bjarnason, is expecting users to work around design flaws?? Oh my god!

Here we're at the core of CCPs problems: Bad design under top level protection.

You're telling paying customers they should wait up to 8 minutes to find out if their client did crash and do nothing meanwhile? While their ship possibly is under attack?

It shouldn't be too difficult to detect server response stalls in the client sometime shorter than 8 minutes nor to block user input to prevent flooding of the input queue if that's supposed to help.


http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=774
== snip ==
We have also changed the way Destiny removes Destiny balls so now there are no references back to the ball from the graphics when the ball is removed.
== snop ==

With a history of not having the best record of not having overlooked {accompanying, new} flaws introduced by "fixing stuff", I question if "relying on circular references" is the most sane approach from your side. Don't rely on something. Doublecheck!

Multiple "you are here" markers in star map, ghost ships on overview after warping away, autopilot settings influencing market item distance calculation... is there any chance there's additional stale referencing to dead balls on client side originating from overview and autopilot code instead of graphics, the latter one supposedly being fixed?

> "The error was not easy to spot, but thankfully easy to fix."

I'm not convinced you got all related errors.

Caladain Barton
Navy of Xoc
The Remnant Legion
Posted - 2010.07.11 00:09:00 - [102]
 

Edited by: Caladain Barton on 11/07/2010 00:10:18
Originally by: Taladool
Maybe if you moron-umm guys would take a minute to think, you would realize the people who program the client side rendering and gfx are not the same people who work on the server side. I wouldn't expect a part of the gfx team to know anything about the server team, the server or its issues.



I would. Everyone on my team knows, at the very least, the architecture (actual code/subsystems, not pretty power point boxes that don't tell you ****) and what *EVERY OTHER TEAM IS DOING* at least at a high level. Any time two teams are playing in the same code sandbox, the two teams coordinate their efforts, and know what the other team is doing intimately. It really isn't too much to expect, and is the norm of a decent software house. If you don't know what the other team is doing intimately (not necessarily in their planning meetings, but you know what files they are touching and what their goal is and what functions they are modifiying/adding/removing by watching source control) how can you know when one of them is about to take a big **** in your code because *he* isn't paying attention and is driven by motivational forces that don't necessarily align with your own?

Really, it's not hard with decent CM and good middle managers. So no. It's not unreasonable to expect that someone working on the client code (which gets intimate with the server code) to know what the server team is doing.

If they don't, how the **** do they get things done? Strictly by interface documents without ever seeing the other side of the code? Did that rodeo once..vowed never to do it again.

Taladool
Minmatar
JIta-Hosting
Posted - 2010.07.11 01:10:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Caladain Barton
Edited by: Caladain Barton on 11/07/2010 00:10:18
Originally by: Taladool
Maybe if you moron-umm guys would take a minute to think, you would realize the people who program the client side rendering and gfx are not the same people who work on the server side. I wouldn't expect a part of the gfx team to know anything about the server team, the server or its issues.



I would. Everyone on my team knows, at the very least, the architecture (actual code/subsystems, not pretty power point boxes that don't tell you ****) and what *EVERY OTHER TEAM IS DOING* at least at a high level. Any time two teams are playing in the same code sandbox, the two teams coordinate their efforts, and know what the other team is doing intimately. It really isn't too much to expect, and is the norm of a decent software house. If you don't know what the other team is doing intimately (not necessarily in their planning meetings, but you know what files they are touching and what their goal is and what functions they are modifiying/adding/removing by watching source control) how can you know when one of them is about to take a big **** in your code because *he* isn't paying attention and is driven by motivational forces that don't necessarily align with your own?

Really, it's not hard with decent CM and good middle managers. So no. It's not unreasonable to expect that someone working on the client code (which gets intimate with the server code) to know what the server team is doing.

If they don't, how the **** do they get things done? Strictly by interface documents without ever seeing the other side of the code? Did that rodeo once..vowed never to do it again.


The Graphic rendering on your PC has nothing what so ever to do with the server, or the code in the client that talks to the server, aside from being told what to render. Its very unlikely that a GFX person or team is going to know much about the server side of the project. Its not that they don't know the broad picture, I'm sure they do, but put simply they aren't responsible for the server, and a good deal of them most likely have different training and specializations in their field, then the server programmers.

Its not like you go to school for programing and when you get out, all of a sudden you know everything there is to know about programing, most people have the general knowledge of how to program when they come out of school, then go into a specialization. Of course there are those that don't and generally are ok or good at a lot of things but not great at any one thing.

Now tell me this, if your CCP and you want to hire a programmer to program the way gfx are rendered on your game, do you want the guy that is specialized in server software, or graphics rendering?

so again, no I wouldn't expect them to have intimate knowledge of the server side software. And even if they did, is it their place as the client gfx programmers to tell us about the server issues or would that maybe fall to the server team?

My main point was the devs that posted the blog don't know anything or they know very little about the server side issues, and even if they know alot, its not their place to talk about it.

Everyone needs to stop *****ing at the wrong people. They are talking about CLIENT GFX not the SERVER, so maybe they aren't the ones working on the server? I know its hard to come to that conclusion considering they are talking about the client and not the server, but then again I guess deductive reasoning is about as rare as common sense these days.


Turdilious
Posted - 2010.07.11 04:13:00 - [104]
 

Fix lag? CCP couldn’t find a hooker in a ***** house.

Clansworth
Good Rock Materials
Posted - 2010.07.11 05:19:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
They don't even acknowledge the server issues.
Might as well let your subscription run out.


That's nonsense. They HAVE acknowledged the server side issues.. they've BEEN acknowledging them since the nodes started getting overcrowded in 2005. They have made massive improvements in that time. The fact that Jita is survivable at this point is a testament to that. I had higher expectations of eve players than this, but to reiterate:

1. Why does a release about them finding some problems in the client meant that they AREN'T working on the server as well? CCP operated as many connected teams, each with different areas of influence.

2. Even if fleet fights grew in size to 2000 people, that would mean at that point, about 0.6% of the customer base would be involved... while 100% of the customer base would be affected by a bit of an FPS boost all around.

Libin Herobi
Posted - 2010.07.11 06:07:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: Clansworth
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
They don't even acknowledge the server issues.
Might as well let your subscription run out.


That's nonsense. They HAVE acknowledged the server side issues.. they've BEEN acknowledging them since the nodes started getting overcrowded in 2005. They have made massive improvements in that time. The fact that Jita is survivable at this point is a testament to that. I had higher expectations of eve players than this, but to reiterate:

1. Why does a release about them finding some problems in the client meant that they AREN'T working on the server as well? CCP operated as many connected teams, each with different areas of influence.



The fact is that there is no improvement for the server.
If they really are working on it or not does not change that.

Actually having no tangible result after working on it for 6 months is pretty lame.
They were so proud about their new stress testing framework and they did all these mass tests yet still: grid loading failures do happen.
One would think 6 months is enough to take a complete walkthrough of the code in question and compare it line by line to the Apocrypha revision but apparently they still haven't found a solution (or maybe even the problem).


Originally by: Clansworth

2. Even if fleet fights grew in size to 2000 people, that would mean at that point, about 0.6% of the customer base would be involved... while 100% of the customer base would be affected by a bit of an FPS boost all around.


Right now they are struggling to support fleet fights with 300 people in it.
And that little FPS boost does not really help the player who is not in a fleet fight.
What good is it to have 86 FPS (that are capped to 60 by v-sync) instead of 78 FPS (that are capped to 60 by v-sync).

And who even thinks about freeing 80MB and taking a performance penalty for that?
It's 2010, even laptops have at least 2GB now. That's just ridiculous.

The whole uselessness of this comes all from the point that the average highsec mission runner does not really profit from these improvements and that fleet fights have more problems from the server side.
So yes, theoretically it's great to improve client performance but it does not improve the game experience as much as you think it would.


It was the same with the "TQ Level Up".
"800% more network capacity between nodes" sounds like one hell of an improvement but did it improve the game experience?
Did it reduce lag?
NO, because it was not a limiting factor!


Unless you think memory consumption and client FPS is the limiting factor for game experience improving them will not help you (much).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebig's_law_of_the_minimum

Taladool
Minmatar
JIta-Hosting
Posted - 2010.07.11 14:37:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: Libin Herobi
Originally by: Clansworth
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
...


....


The fact is that there is no improvement for the server.
If they really are working on it or not does not change that.

Actually having no tangible result after working on it for 6 months is pretty lame.
They were so proud about their new stress testing framework and they did all these mass tests yet still: grid loading failures do happen.
One would think 6 months is enough to take a complete walkthrough of the code in question and compare it line by line to the Apocrypha revision but apparently they still haven't found a solution (or maybe even the problem).



Your both right, there has been a lot of new upgrades, and server software improvements.

on the flip side there have been a lot of setbacks since Dominion, and rightly you are ok to be upset with that, however this is not the thread your looking to complain in, these devs posting in this tread have nothing to do with your server side software.

Stop trying to find any place with devs in it talking about the programming aspect of the game and stuff your OMG FLEET LAG whingeing into it. CCP knows their server isn't doing a great job, CCP knows there are issues and are trying to fix them, if 6 months is all it would take it would be fixed and working fine by now.

If for some reason you think you can do better then put up or shut up.



Quote:
Originally by: Clansworth
...
Right now they are struggling to support fleet fights with 300 people in it.
And that little FPS boost does not really help the player who is not in a fleet fight.
What good is it to have 86 FPS (that are capped to 60 by v-sync) instead of 78 FPS (that are capped to 60 by v-sync).

And who even thinks about freeing 80MB and taking a performance penalty for that?
It's 2010, even laptops have at least 2GB now. That's just ridiculous.

The whole uselessness of this comes all from the point that the average highsec mission runner does not really profit from these improvements and that fleet fights have more problems from the server side.
So yes, theoretically it's great to improve client performance but it does not improve the game experience as much as you think it would.


It was the same with the "TQ Level Up".
"800% more network capacity between nodes" sounds like one hell of an improvement but did it improve the game experience?
Did it reduce lag?
NO, because it was not a limiting factor!


Unless you think memory consumption and client FPS is the limiting factor for game experience improving them will not help you (much).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebig's_law_of_the_minimum



You do know there are quite a few players who do play with lower end pc's right? and that every little FPS matters to them. While it might not effect everyone the same, every little bit helps.

You can't justify not fixing and improving the client just because the server is lagging. Its not like tossing the client gfx team onto the server work will help the server work get done any faster or improve the speed with which the work gets done.

What is ridiculous is you seem to be under the assumption that just because a few more fps doesn't matter to you, that it wont matter to others.

Stop being a OMG WTF LAG tool, and find the right posts to put this crap in.

If I was the devs that wrote the blog, and read all this crap, at this point I wouldn't bother writing anything else for your snobs, really, the server lags, FINE, Get over it, or vote with your feet and walk.

Blatantly Obvious
Posted - 2010.07.11 15:18:00 - [108]
 

Obviously these kinds of changes are 1) cool, 2) needed, and 3) show that CCP is actively working at improving the game.

But I also want to say that this was a very clearly written explanation of some highly technical stuff. Awesome work!

Pr1ncess Alia
Posted - 2010.07.11 18:31:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: Taladool

Stop trying to find any place with devs in it talking about the programming aspect of the game and stuff your OMG FLEET LAG whingeing into it. CCP knows their server isn't doing a great job, CCP knows there are issues and are trying to fix them, if 6 months is all it would take it would be fixed and working fine by now.

If for some reason you think you can do better then put up or shut up.

....

What is ridiculous is you seem to be under the assumption that just because a few more fps doesn't matter to you, that it wont matter to others.

Stop being a OMG WTF LAG tool, and find the right posts to put this crap in.

If I was the devs that wrote the blog, and read all this crap, at this point I wouldn't bother writing anything else for your snobs, really, the server lags, FINE, Get over it, or vote with your feet and walk.


Let's get this out of the way first.
This is a fact: if 80Meg of memory REALLY matters to you, you are in such a small minority of players you should be ignored. Your machine is beyond obsolete. What's next? CCP trying to support people playing on a 386?



If CCP "KNOWS" their server isn't doing too well, they are doing a mighty fine job of keeping a lid on it. Go find me the appropriate thread for my rage. The one where CCP acknowledges the ongoing server issues of the past few months and tells us what they are trying to do to fix it.

The only thing i hear out of them is asking me to use my free time to help them on the sisi server... and in the months that we have been doing that this is the only thread to come of it.

Months of sisi testing for some client side tweaks? Please god tell me no, but we don't know do we? Thus our posting. You getting it yet????



put up or shut up? lol, tough guy internet alert.
your suggestion that unless i'm willing to go to CCP andf fix the problem myself i should shut up? LOL

"if i were a dev and read this i wouldn't bother writing anything"(paraphrasing)
You just keep outdoing yourself.
Are you an adult?
Have you had any dealings with the business world or just the internets?

We are customers. Go out into the business world and see how well your business does when upset customers come to you upset with your product and you say: "boy those people are angry! i'm just going to stop talking to them entirely."
See how well your business does. Rolling Eyes


The only thing you typed that made any sense what-so-ever was that we had a right to be angry.

Originally by: Taladool
and rightly you are ok to be upset with that

(hint: this is where you should have stopped.)[/i]
These are forums, where we voice our opinions. As p/o customers this is what we do and where we do it.


If you want to tell someone to shut up, go yell in a mirror.
Your marching around like some wanna-be mod that can't delete posts, telling people to go away.
The only person being unconstructive here is you and your white knighting.

Taladool
Minmatar
JIta-Hosting
Posted - 2010.07.11 22:22:00 - [110]
 

All Quotes have been reduced to one or two sentences, to provide more space for text. and provide context to the comments made there after.

Quote:
Let's get this out of the way first.
This is a fact: if 80Meg of memory REALLY matters to you


They said they freed up 80Meg of memory, that was only by removing the loading of the map. That doesn't include the other improvements that have sped up the clients FPS itself, fixed some if not all of the ghost ships on the overview and in space. I don't know about you but that seems like a good thing to me. It is not that uncommon (read the avg fps) to find PC's that only render 20 to 30 fps in fleet fights, so anything that improves that just a little bit matters.

Quote:
If CCP "KNOWS" their server isn't doing too well


While they haven't been posted yet the CSM has hinted towards this being a major topic at the summit, and you can most likely expect to find more information in the minutes. You could also wait for the dev blog about server lag, CCP Explorer told us about in post 12 of this thread.

Even past that, CCP is holding the mass testing to try and figure out what is going wrong.

This is where put up or shut up applied
Quote:
Actually having no tangible result after working on it for 6 months is pretty lame.

They are doing the best they can, if you think that is lame, then go show them how to do it, or quit pretending like you have any idea what the issue is and how long it should take to fix.

Quote:
"if i were a dev and read this i wouldn't bother writing anything"(paraphrasing)




In case you missed it, and I'm sure you have, this is a dev blog, and CCP isn't required to blog anything to us, they don't have to tell us one damn thing about the game, the server, what they plan on doing, or anything else, and a good deal of time I'm sure they don't just to avoid flames like this.

Plus you took my words out of context with your (paraphrasing) I said "If I was the dev that wrote this blog, I wouldn't bother writing another one", and why would s/he? So people like you can flame them about problems that they have nothing to do with?

How does that statement make me any less of an adult? You mean it would be childish to post a blog talking about client side graphics, have everyone flame me for the server teams issues, then decide not to post any more dev blogs talking about client side fixes, which the majority of the people in this thread are ignoring because of server issues I have nothing to do with? That is not being childish, that's a fairly simple conclusion to come to.

Quote:
We are customers.


That isn't what I said, I said I wouldn't post another blog for you snobs, its simple really, Yes, you are customers, but you agreed to this service when you clicked accept on that eula screen. If you don't like the service your getting, leave, no one is forcing you to stay.

Quote:
If you want to tell someone to shut up, go yell in a mirror.


You mean telling people to stop posting server lag crap in a client lag thread? You should be thanking them for the fix's, not ***** about something this dev team has nothing to do with. Its not very constructive to ***** in the wrong thread, you notice CCP Explorer stopped posting as soon as people starting *****ing about server lag in their client lag thread? Its because this dev team has nothing to add to the conversation, kind of because its not their area of expertise.

oh and, you want a thread to ***** in, try the comments for this dev blog here or waiting for CCP's devblog about server lag, they told you would be coming.

I hardly said the mods should shut you up, I simply said there is no point *****ing about it here, it wont help anything. Don't worry though you will get your server lag thread soon Im sure

Thorir
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas.
Posted - 2010.07.12 02:58:00 - [111]
 

Thanks for the update.

I think the server side lag is the problem for most people though. Hope you get some progress improving it soon.

The fleet fight lag is affecting alot of players.

Looking at the Dominion trailer is kind of embarrassing. Wish someone would change it so it shows real player experience =)

But you probably have alot of people working on it for more than 6 months now. Waiting eagerly for improvents so I might actually undock.

Libin Herobi
Posted - 2010.07.12 08:05:00 - [112]
 

This thread is called "Tyrannis Performance Improvements" as far as I know the server is an important part of that.

You appear to have some difficulties understanding what those 80MB less memory consumption does.
It makes no difference if you have 300 or 380 MB of free memory, this will not give you any additional FPS.
This will only improve your performance if you exceed the actual physical memory size of your computer.
Because then your system needs to swap memory to your hard disk (which is much slower than memory) and thus a performance hit will occur.
As long as this is not the case using less memory (which would reduce the amount of swapping necessary) is really irrelevant.

Quote:
They are doing the best they can, if you think that is lame, then go show them how to do it, or quit pretending like you have any idea what the issue is and how long it should take to fix.

I never pretended I know where or what the problem is (unless you can quote the relevant part).
It might be difficult to understand but you don't have to be a professional cook to notice a soup is cold or an architect to see a bridge broke down or a police officer to see someone drives without lights at night.
You can spot those mistakes because they are completely obvious.
One full release cycle with no tangile improvement is just as obvious as the mistakes mentioned above.

I said 6 months is probably enough to do a complete walkthrough of the relevant code.
Please show me how this is not the case in your opinion.

Quote:
Plus you took my words out of context with your (paraphrasing) I said "If I was the dev that wrote this blog, I wouldn't bother writing another one", and why would s/he? So people like you can flame them about problems that they have nothing to do with?


Because it's part of their job?
They don't do this (just) because they are nice.
They do this because they get paid for this.

Quote:
How does that statement make me any less of an adult? You mean it would be childish to post a blog talking about client side graphics, have everyone flame me for the server teams issues, then decide not to post any more dev blogs talking about client side fixes, which the majority of the people in this thread are ignoring because of server issues I have nothing to do with? That is not being childish, that's a fairly simple conclusion to come to.

You saying "I would stop doing that" is like saying "I'd refuse to do my job".
Actually that kinda makes you look fairly childish.

Di Mulle
Posted - 2010.07.12 22:41:00 - [113]
 

I felt guilty I participated only in a couple of test fights.

Now I feel stupid I wasted my time on this.

Thanks CCP.

Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
RONA Directorate
Posted - 2010.07.13 03:03:00 - [114]
 

Hey ccp, I know you guys are busy and i had some questions a few pages back, if you have the chance to answer them that woudl be great.


To everyone else, spreading hate and whining, thowing fits isnt going to get you anything. It's like the little 4 year old in the store crying for candy, doesnt work like that.

These client and server devs are already under a ton of pressure and stress as is trying to sort out all the data and fix it.

so......

CUT THEM SOME ****EN SLACK! They are doing a good job and are working hard.

Tyby
Nex Exercitus
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.07.13 08:39:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Lumy
I was hoping the tests were aimed at server-side lag. Have they helped identified some server issues, too?
The mass-tests have helped us identify server issues as well. Some of the server code fixes resulting from the mass-tests are now being analysed and we will publish a dev blog as soon as we have the results.



so, let me see if i get this right, 8 months after dominion, this is all you guys have??? like nothingreally right now, only the "soon" crap? Shocked

Hydraxia
Posted - 2010.07.13 11:31:00 - [116]
 

Usefull blog, Thanks!

Corin Nebulon
Brutal Deliverance
THE UNTHINKABLES
Posted - 2010.07.14 12:37:00 - [117]
 

First of all thanks for the blog, it helps to understand what the dev's are currently working on. And at the same time raises a lot of questions. First of all, why is the bug that was discovered in the beginning of the year and caused already small gangs to lag out whole server nodes, not fixed yet? It is not funny if you join a fleet and after 8 jumps you stop loading systems. The server isn't answering any calls for hours, stuck petititions are ignored (because of large fleet fights) and the evening is basically ruined.

When then an the next morning you log back in, you find yourself in your clone. Apperently the server never recognized the client to be offline. The ship stayed in space until a lone interdictor came by and decided to remove the ship manually. So after a evening of doing nothing but some isk making on an alt and listening to a lot of angry voices on teamspeak you find out that even your ship is destroyed and you will need to invest some more time to make up the lose.

Seriously, fps increses are great. But on the other hand they dont really cause much of an inconvenience. But even if this server sided issues are rare, they affect a lot of people. Having issues with fps isn't going to stop that many ppl from playing eve. At least it didn't stop me. But the above descriped scenario can easily cause ppl to simply stop playing. There is barly something more frustrating than being literally excluded from the eve cluster and getting your ship blown up.

So pls if possible switch some resources to handle issues on the server side. Otherwise the whole game will become less fun for a huge part of your playerbase.

Allen Ramses
Caldari
Zombicidal Mania
Posted - 2010.07.15 01:23:00 - [118]
 

Quote:

Stuff about faulty resource handling
Stuff about faulty texture memory allocation
Stuff about faulty T3 ship rendering
Stuff about faulty garbage collection
Stuff about faulty overview parsing

You don't say! You guys verified these problematic causes only 6 months after the release of Dominion? That's a quick reaction time indeed! Considering it took several members of the community almost two weeks to do the same thing, it seems the 13 fold increase in time means a 13 fold increase in QA verification, right?

But it was too bad it was all dismissed as an ATi driver bug, and nothing else was taken seriously. I'd like to offer a suggestion to CCP. If your playerbase is telling you that white boxes and lines on ATI cards is a symptom of a bug rather than a bug itself, you might want to acknowledge that possibility rather than deliberately ignoring it.

So, it was identified 6 months after the problem appeared, and it was fixed in a matter of days. The important part is that it was fixed, and not that it could have been fixed 5 months prior, right? Me being able to predict an "I told you so" moment is completely irrelevant to the situation at hand. CCP stepped up to the plate and got the job done. Better late than early, right CCP?

Good show, CCP. Good show. You're winner!

Ama Zing
Posted - 2010.07.15 11:29:00 - [119]
 

Well - since Tyrannis I feel very “tyrannized“ by the bad stability!
I lost tons of drones and I never cried! If you change major rendering mechanics, why don't you use the technical expertise you collect from singularity before throwing the paying community into cold water? My machine freezes by only hovering the mouse over the “wrong stuff“! But I guess you ignore that for 6 months as well ....

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2010.07.28 21:47:00 - [120]
 

Nice blog, I'll admit I haven't read the three pages of posts, but I am wondering if we will get an update to the blog? it is 3 weeks later now...

best,
Apollo


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