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Ishina Fel
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.07.08 09:53:00 - [61]
 

Thanks for the hard work; however I also wish to lobby for an option to keep the map in memory. Some of us have plenty to spare! :)

Grikath
T.E.L.O.G.S.
Mostly Clueless
Posted - 2010.07.08 10:08:00 - [62]
 

There's also many more people that could not give a rat's nether regions about the massive pewpew-fests a very vocal minority here seem to like so much.

Not everyone has a state-of-the-art gaming box, and the fixes mentioned in this Devblog have a serious impact on the playability of the game on older machines, and do benefit the vast multitude who are interested in all the other forms of PvP EVE has to offer outside of pewpewing in nullsec.

And what is CCP supposed to do, ignore identified bugs that lag the client, and which may feed back on any server-related issue, just to please a couple of professional whingers beating the same drum over and over again?
Get a grip, leave your parents' basement and go look at a phenomenon called "Real Life".

The more the client gets cleaned up, the less white noise there is regarding any server-side issue that may be the cause of any lag. This is a Good Thing™.

Tester128
Fremen Sietch
DarkSide.
Posted - 2010.07.08 10:12:00 - [63]
 

while it's nice to know why the client crashed sometimes with t3 on the grid, the end result is still kind of facelift and liposuction on a terminal cancer patient.
tl:dr - fix the fleet fight lags (now it's small roaming lag actually).

nice blog

Libin Herobi
Posted - 2010.07.08 11:32:00 - [64]
 

Edited by: Libin Herobi on 08/07/2010 11:32:37
Edited by: Libin Herobi on 08/07/2010 11:32:07
Originally by: Caladain Barton
Originally by: SavageBastard

I should add that I think CCP needs to come up with a system where developers are able to play in and with large alliances in a structured manner that is monitored internally. Nobody wants a return to the T20 days, but if so many of these lag problems are news to you (as you mentioned learning about some of them from the CSM) then it is clear that none of you are actually involved with players on the ground floor. In the developing that I've done with games, the best changes I ever made all came from playing the game in the manner that my players actually played it instead of simply reacting to bug reports and server load tests. Please consider this.


CCP Devs, Please respond to this post.

You guys have drifted away from us and don't know our plight :-(



Just make the devs participate in the mass tests on SISI.
You have all the lag you could want right there.

I'm also wondering how old some of those issues are.
Did someone change the overview before player reported it to be updating "too often"?
Did someone touch the resource manager to introduce memory leaks and when?


And yes, the client is the part that is already very well customizable to greatly improve FPS.
Again working on "priority 3" items instead of "priority 1".

*EDIT* spelling is especially difficult today

Chir Ishi
Posted - 2010.07.08 11:40:00 - [65]
 

Thanks for the write up. I appreciate the hard work, keep it up.

Kajan Tormen
Minmatar
Blood Money Inc.
The Blood Money Cartel
Posted - 2010.07.08 14:05:00 - [66]
 

Joining the lobby to bring faster map load times back.
I open and close the map VERY often, having to wait 3 seconds for it to lead every time is pretty annoying. (not game breaking, but back when the 80 mb were kept in memory it used to be almost instant after the first load).
I can not imagine that 80 mb of ram is a problem for the majority of players. if it is ... please make it an option...

Even when dualboxing EvE, I usually have 2 to 1.5 gigabyte of RAM to spare, so obviously I'd appreciate all the caching that's possible. As not everyone is in the same position - make the caching of various things optional!




Shepard Book
Posted - 2010.07.08 15:43:00 - [67]
 

Good to see some progress. Keep it up.

Jim Luc
Caldari
Rule of Five
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2010.07.08 16:04:00 - [68]
 

The map always took forever to load. I doubt you would've even noticed they made a change had you not read it in this devblog.

I have noticed the various texture and graphics upgrades. The new Primae ship looks really high-res by the way. Can't wait to see the other upgrades they have in store.

Most games use volumetrics for their clouds, smoke, dust, effects & lighting halos. Are there plans to incorporate the same effects into EVE? Currently all smoke is rotating bitmaps, and all lights and engines are also animated bitmaps, so when they intersect with geometry, it looks really bad.

I know there's quite a bit on the plate already, but if the graphics team can write a devblog about the graphical enhancements coming our way, that would be really sweet. Thanks CCP! ugh

Jim Luc
Caldari
Rule of Five
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2010.07.08 16:24:00 - [69]
 

DirectX 11 and what it means to you!

I'm on a mac by the way, but I still want to see DX11 implemented in EVE!!

TheLostPenguin
Posted - 2010.07.08 16:28:00 - [70]
 

+1 to making map caching an option, I thought the marginally slower load times were a result of some new cient bug or me having too much running on system, turns out it was a deliberate change, that sucks :(
I fully understand not everyone has conputers capable of running a half dozen clients without even breaking a sweat, and those few Mb are very handy I'm sure for those limping along with 1 or 2Gb system memory, but can it really be that much work to give the rest of us the option of improving client performance somewhat?
Nice to see a couple of the client issues that have been annoying getting cleared up, altho thats only a couple of positive changes to the client when everything else thats been changed in last year or so has made ther client worse, wish you'd find solutions to issues rather than just ripping bits out of the client CCP >.<

Shasz
Angels of Anarchy
Posted - 2010.07.08 16:53:00 - [71]
 

Edited by: Shasz on 08/07/2010 16:53:10
That was a great read, thanks for the insight.

While we're talking client-lag, are you working on fixing session changes when your people & places window is open? I have lots of bookmarks for obvious 0.0 reasons, and whenever I go through a session change with my P&P window open, it takes an extra few seconds to work through all those BM entries and I presume determine the # of jumps and paint the right ones green.

When jumping gates in 0.0, or losing a ship, timing can be critical, and the extra 2-3 seconds lost can be precious.

Honestly, I don't care about my bookmarks in the next door system, let alone whether my one Jita bookmark is 25 or 26 hops away. Just load the current system's BM's maybe?

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2010.07.08 16:55:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Lumy
I was hoping the tests were aimed at server-side lag. Have they helped identified some server issues, too?
The mass-tests have helped us identify server issues as well. Some of the server code fixes resulting from the mass-tests are now being analysed and we will publish a dev blog as soon as we have the results.


For those who seem a little slow on the uptake.

Clansworth
Good Rock Materials
Posted - 2010.07.08 18:24:00 - [73]
 

I think my favorite phenomenon in all of eve is the ability for players to see that Dev Team B (client coders, in this case) is doing a good job, and instead of saying good job, the most common response is "Why are you wasting time on this when you should be working on the stuff that Team A (server coders) is working on".

YeOldeScout934
Posted - 2010.07.08 18:53:00 - [74]
 

If the dust is causing a problem, sounds like a good reason not to have it in the game at all. What does it add to the game playing experience?

el caido
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2010.07.08 19:03:00 - [75]
 

blog - yay
results - meh

Keep at it, CCP.

Dacil Arandur
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.07.08 19:11:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Clansworth
I think my favorite phenomenon in all of eve is the ability for players to see that Dev Team B (client coders, in this case) is doing a good job, and instead of saying good job, the most common response is "Why are you wasting time on this when you should be working on the stuff that Team A (server coders) is working on".


This.

Great job CCP Blaze and team!
As was mentioned in previous dev blogs, what many people perceive as lag is often local to their computer. Any improvements to the performance of the client are great, and we all appreciate it!

Thanks again for the hard!

Libin Herobi
Posted - 2010.07.08 19:11:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Clansworth
I think my favorite phenomenon in all of eve is the ability for players to see that Dev Team B (client coders, in this case) is doing a good job, and instead of saying good job, the most common response is "Why are you wasting time on this when you should be working on the stuff that Team A (server coders) is working on".


This world does not only have people who will break down, cry and refuse to work if they have to do something unfamiliar in the time of need.

Working in a different team on a different part of the same product happens every day.
People don't suffer from that. Some even think it helps them understand the product and become better at their jobs.

Saeborg Ninja
Posted - 2010.07.08 19:29:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Caladain Barton
Originally by: SavageBastard

I should add that I think CCP needs to come up with a system where developers are able to play in and with large alliances in a structured manner that is monitored internally. Nobody wants a return to the T20 days, but if so many of these lag problems are news to you (as you mentioned learning about some of them from the CSM) then it is clear that none of you are actually involved with players on the ground floor. In the developing that I've done with games, the best changes I ever made all came from playing the game in the manner that my players actually played it instead of simply reacting to bug reports and server load tests. Please consider this.


CCP Devs, Please respond to this post.

You guys have drifted away from us and don't know our plight :-(


How do you suggest that happens? As soon as someone finds out that player XXX is a CCP dev, there will be an outburst of accusations of cheats, espionage and foul plays with no way for XXX to vindicate himself.

HoboWithASalvager
Posted - 2010.07.08 19:51:00 - [79]
 

What use is a client performance improvement when I can't log into the game ?

Orange Faeces
The Atomik Izlamiks
Posted - 2010.07.08 20:33:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Irumani
Originally by: SavageBastard
...


Quoted for massive and saddening truth.

The nullsec game is broken, and I'm sure every nullsec player want to be sure CCP understands the problem fully. We all know a better understanding of the problem can lead to a better fix, so please CCP, get someone in any nullsec alliance for a week or two, joining fleets and playing at the same level we all do. You'll see by yourselves all the mess nullsec currently is.

Fixing client-side issues is cool. Getting the game to run at pre-Dominion levels would be awesome.


There are lots of CCP employees in 0.0 alliances, bro. NC is clear evidence of that.

O. Faeces

BearUkraine
Gallente
Light Style
Posted - 2010.07.08 20:45:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Salyan
Re: cleaning up map memory on close.

I can understand how for some people that 80mb could be important, but for me, I have room to spare.

I would much rather have an instant-open map that took 100,200,or 300mb more memory. The delay is irritating when you are constantly switching back and forth.

Can this be a toggle in the options somewhere?


+1
Toggle can be accaptable for everyone. I have enough memory and I personaly dont want to see any delays.

Pr1ncess Alia
Posted - 2010.07.08 22:01:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: dev blog

All the changes mentioned in this blog are client-side only, and will not solve any server-client lag or any other epic server side failure that might exist and has existed for the past several months. However, that should make playing a more stable, faster and more enjoyable experience.



Fixed your post blog.

Seriously?

Neutral it's not even funny anymore

JasonKuehn
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.07.08 22:01:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: SavageBastard
Edited by: SavageBastard on 07/07/2010 22:34:33
I should add that I think CCP needs to come up with a system where developers are able to play in and with large alliances in a structured manner that is monitored internally. Nobody wants a return to the T20 days, but if so many of these lag problems are news to you (as you mentioned learning about some of them from the CSM) then it is clear that none of you are actually involved with players on the ground floor. In the developing that I've done with games, the best changes I ever made all came from playing the game in the manner that my players actually played it instead of simply reacting to bug reports and server load tests. Please consider this.


This, please!

javer
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.07.08 22:04:00 - [84]
 

its good to read we have improvements on the client side but somehow that doesnt equate into improved fleet fight performance as that is almost entirely server side, and the game was more responsive during apocrypha (max v1 fight in e-o as prime example 1000+players on same node with fighting and node still lived+cycled guns)

then take a "fight" today with just 100 cap ships in local shooting poses and guns wasnt cycling, strange behaviour like scrambling notices after pos was reinforced etc

ccp needs to locate what they changed/implemented that made the db server/node slow down in fleet fights compared to apocrypha.
new features can get stuffed unless they make the game playable for what is supposed to be the "end game" for older players

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2010.07.08 22:04:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Libin Herobi
Originally by: Clansworth
I think my favorite phenomenon in all of eve is the ability for players to see that Dev Team B (client coders, in this case) is doing a good job, and instead of saying good job, the most common response is "Why are you wasting time on this when you should be working on the stuff that Team A (server coders) is working on".


This world does not only have people who will break down, cry and refuse to work if they have to do something unfamiliar in the time of need.

Working in a different team on a different part of the same product happens every day.
People don't suffer from that. Some even think it helps them understand the product and become better at their jobs.



I think you won an award for this post, but I'm not sure "Most Clueless" is something you want to brag about.


Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.07.08 22:30:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Saeborg Ninja

How do you suggest that happens? As soon as someone finds out that player XXX is a CCP dev, there will be an outburst of accusations of cheats, espionage and foul plays with no way for XXX to vindicate himself.


I think we're over that by now. This isn't 2007 anymore.
I'd have no problem with IA supervised devs in player chars in 0.0 alliances as long as there is a good was to monitor.
Let IA report to CSM every time they visit iceland for example. I trust the CSM enough that if they say there's nothing fishy going on, I'm going to believe them.

BeanBagKing
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.07.08 22:34:00 - [87]
 

Great blog! I hope to see more like it. I think most of the community knows that CCP does do a lot of work behind the scenes to make eve run faster, but we don't see it enough. It's great to get the details on what was causing performance problems, and what was done to fix it.

UVPhoenix2
Rim Collection RC
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2010.07.08 23:21:00 - [88]
 

CCP Fallout you make me wet.

Libin Herobi
Posted - 2010.07.09 04:26:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Libin Herobi
Originally by: Clansworth
I think my favorite phenomenon in all of eve is the ability for players to see that Dev Team B (client coders, in this case) is doing a good job, and instead of saying good job, the most common response is "Why are you wasting time on this when you should be working on the stuff that Team A (server coders) is working on".


This world does not only have people who will break down, cry and refuse to work if they have to do something unfamiliar in the time of need.

Working in a different team on a different part of the same product happens every day.
People don't suffer from that. Some even think it helps them understand the product and become better at their jobs.



I think you won an award for this post, but I'm not sure "Most Clueless" is something you want to brag about.




You are sooooo cool.

But seriously, I have better ways of wasting my time than trying to reason with you.

Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries
The Black Armada
Posted - 2010.07.09 04:28:00 - [90]
 

yo CCP Blaze, click on your name and see the error message that pops up! Embarassed


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