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CCP Fallout

Posted - 2010.07.07 21:40:00 - [1]
 

You've participated in numerous tests on Singularity, helping CCP track down fleet flight lag issues. How have these tests faired? CCP Blaze's newest dev blog gives us the answers.

Estel Arador
Posted - 2010.07.07 22:00:00 - [2]
 

Some nice insights there.

Thy Collector
Posted - 2010.07.07 22:07:00 - [3]
 

Nice blog. Always appreciate understanding some of the smaller things that are being down to improve the game.

I do really hope that a blog on server-client lag will be created some

Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.07.07 22:08:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Batolemaeus on 07/07/2010 22:11:21
Nice Blog, bonus points for including graphs. Also, you got balls. It seems.

Will there be another Devblog that explains what went wrong with the server with Dominion, too?
Also, will you also look into the abysmal UI rendering performance in the future? The difference in fps between a heavily filtered ui and no ui whatsoever is over 95% for me (going up from <1 fps to ~60 fps just by pressing ctrl+f9, even with drone brackets filtered out and effects down to a minimum is just wrong)



ibc

Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2010.07.07 22:09:00 - [5]
 

tl;dr The balls are inert.

Yuda Mann
Posted - 2010.07.07 22:11:00 - [6]
 

WTF? Why is CCP always working on dumb stuff that doesn't matter? FIX LAG NAO!

oh wait

They always have been, haven't they?

Qoi
Exert Force
Posted - 2010.07.07 22:11:00 - [7]
 

Thank you very much for the insights Very Happy

Salyan
Twilight Sparkle Fan Club
Posted - 2010.07.07 22:14:00 - [8]
 

Re: cleaning up map memory on close.

I can understand how for some people that 80mb could be important, but for me, I have room to spare.

I would much rather have an instant-open map that took 100,200,or 300mb more memory. The delay is irritating when you are constantly switching back and forth.

Can this be a toggle in the options somewhere?

Lumy
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.07.07 22:17:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Lumy on 07/07/2010 22:18:34
I was hoping the tests were aimed at server-side lag. Have they helped identified some server issues, too?

Vuk Lau
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.07.07 22:17:00 - [10]
 

Great blog, its nice to present some "backstage" work to the plebs.

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2010.07.07 22:20:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Batolemaeus
Will there be another Devblog that explains what went wrong with the server with Dominion, too?
We blogged about in February.

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2010.07.07 22:23:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Lumy
I was hoping the tests were aimed at server-side lag. Have they helped identified some server issues, too?
The mass-tests have helped us identify server issues as well. Some of the server code fixes resulting from the mass-tests are now being analysed and we will publish a dev blog as soon as we have the results.

Caladain Barton
Navy of Xoc
The Remnant Legion
Posted - 2010.07.07 22:24:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Caladain Barton on 07/07/2010 22:30:34
Edited by: Caladain Barton on 07/07/2010 22:24:47
Client lag fixes, very nice.

How about game crushing server lag and desync update?


You know..the black loading screen of death, nodes dying when there are only 40 friendlies in system, reinforced nodes keeling over, desync, huge grid loading issues, etc.

You know..all the server side stuff?

Edit: you posted between when i started and when i hit post. :-)

Further Edit: You say "Server lag that may exist"

Don't you mean "Does exist"?

Moraguth
Amarr
Paragon Fury
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2010.07.07 22:25:00 - [14]
 

Does this have anything to do with why the drone list (assist/guard) isn't working like it did right after dominion came out? They patched the game to fix that stuff you talked about (awesome) but they broke the drone commands list. Having it only show people who were in system (or was it grid?) was AMAZING!

Cinori Aluben
Minmatar
Gladiators of Rage
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.07.07 22:27:00 - [15]
 

Thanks for the info! Will digest the numbers a bit more and comment further. I wish I could been there for the past sets of testing, but they kept getting rescheduled when I'd log on. Oh well, keep up the good work.

Carlo Curiosus
Curious Corp
EVE Trade Alliance
Posted - 2010.07.07 22:27:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Carlo Curiosus on 08/07/2010 08:07:23
Edited by: Carlo Curiosus on 07/07/2010 22:27:56
Quote:
The Star Map

When opening up the star map the graphics were loaded and generated and kept around for easy access later. This resulted in a bit of extra memory usage, but allowed the map to be opened up quite fast.

It turned out that by throwing away the graphics when closing the map and regenerating them when opening it, we could release 80 Mb of memory. The change we made means that the map takes a bit longer to start up, but the benefit is that you are not using additional memory for the map when it is closed.

What impact does this actually have on lag?

I would have thought 80Mb was a drop in the ocean - personally I'd rather have the map load faster than temporarily have a rather small chunk of extra free memory.

EDIT: As Salyan said, could it be made an option somewhere?

SavageBastard
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.07.07 22:29:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: SavageBastard on 07/07/2010 22:34:33

This is great and it's a relief to know that there is still work being actively done on this but it's still obviously not enough. This time last year the game worked better than it ever had in large fleet fights. Things were laggy but they worked and worked fairly reliably. Grids loaded, you could cyno in to laggy system and 1400 man fleet fights were entirely manageable while multiboxing. Currently, an unreinforced system can get laggy with just 100 people in it. I was disappointed that there was no mention of working on why one side of a fight can load a grid just fine and the other simply won't load it at all, particularly when jumping into heavily populated systems. Currently all of 0.0 is essentially "broken" as a result of this and tactics are almost entirely centered on making the other side have to jump into your fleet instead of you into theirs. Strategic objectives are often passed by simply because it would be too risky to get the kinds of ships into the system that would be required to take them. The best way to conquer space currently is not to drop SBUs and engage hostile fleets but to essentially grief the enemy into no longer wanting to live there.

For those of us who play the game entirely for the sandbox element and the scale of conquest and alliance battle, it would certainly be more heartening if CCP was much more visibly and aggressively addressing those core issues of grid and system loading and module cycling. You literally sell the game based on the concept of 0.0 warfare. We would very much appreciate if any of it was working. We do not expect a lag-free environment but a return to March 2009 performance levels would be a relief beyond what I could articulate here and it would make the sov system that you all worked so very hard on actually usable.



*edit*

I should add that I think CCP needs to come up with a system where developers are able to play in and with large alliances in a structured manner that is monitored internally. Nobody wants a return to the T20 days, but if so many of these lag problems are news to you (as you mentioned learning about some of them from the CSM) then it is clear that none of you are actually involved with players on the ground floor. In the developing that I've done with games, the best changes I ever made all came from playing the game in the manner that my players actually played it instead of simply reacting to bug reports and server load tests. Please consider this.

Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
RONA Directorate
Posted - 2010.07.07 22:32:00 - [18]
 

SWEET MOAR MASS TESTS!!


How long until we can go back to 1600 man slug fests?

Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.07.07 22:37:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Batolemaeus on 07/07/2010 22:37:19
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Batolemaeus
Will there be another Devblog that explains what went wrong with the server with Dominion, too?
We blogged about in February.


And no progress since then whatsoever. In fact, it got worse.
Which is why i was asking whether we'd see a Devblog on (upcoming?) improvements and on what actually happened there.

Caladain Barton
Navy of Xoc
The Remnant Legion
Posted - 2010.07.07 22:38:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: SavageBastard

I should add that I think CCP needs to come up with a system where developers are able to play in and with large alliances in a structured manner that is monitored internally. Nobody wants a return to the T20 days, but if so many of these lag problems are news to you (as you mentioned learning about some of them from the CSM) then it is clear that none of you are actually involved with players on the ground floor. In the developing that I've done with games, the best changes I ever made all came from playing the game in the manner that my players actually played it instead of simply reacting to bug reports and server load tests. Please consider this.


CCP Devs, Please respond to this post.

You guys have drifted away from us and don't know our plight :-(

Gertrud ToD
Terrorists of Dimensions
Electric Monkey Overlords
Posted - 2010.07.07 22:41:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Gertrud ToD on 07/07/2010 22:41:32
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Batolemaeus
Will there be another Devblog that explains what went wrong with the server with Dominion, too?
We blogged about in February.



Originally by: From said devblog

Final words

We have come a long way in understanding the issues that have plagued large fights after Dominion and have gotten important insight into fleet fight lag as a whole. The problems we are experiencing post-Dominion are being worked on and they will be fixed soon, adding more space carnage to your battles.


so, since you pointed at that devblog, can we please have a follow up - what happend to those fixes? are you still working on em? when is "soon"?

Innominate
Amarr
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.07.07 22:42:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Innominate on 07/07/2010 22:44:50
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Batolemaeus
Will there be another Devblog that explains what went wrong with the server with Dominion, too?
We blogged about in February.


Great. Now do you plan do actually DO anything about it?

Edit:
While that blog contains some useful information for dealing with laggy situations, it says nothing about what actually went wrong with dominion, nor does it say anything about fixes to it.

Odinegras
Gallente
0utbreak
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2010.07.07 22:42:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Caladain Barton
Originally by: SavageBastard

I should add that I think CCP needs to come up with a system where developers are able to play in and with large alliances in a structured manner that is monitored internally. Nobody wants a return to the T20 days, but if so many of these lag problems are news to you (as you mentioned learning about some of them from the CSM) then it is clear that none of you are actually involved with players on the ground floor. In the developing that I've done with games, the best changes I ever made all came from playing the game in the manner that my players actually played it instead of simply reacting to bug reports and server load tests. Please consider this.


CCP Devs, Please respond to this post.

You guys have drifted away from us and don't know our plight :-(


you might wanna be more realistic...

Caladain Barton
Navy of Xoc
The Remnant Legion
Posted - 2010.07.07 22:46:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Odinegras
Originally by: Caladain Barton
Originally by: SavageBastard

I should add that I think CCP needs to come up with a system where developers are able to play in and with large alliances in a structured manner that is monitored internally. Nobody wants a return to the T20 days, but if so many of these lag problems are news to you (as you mentioned learning about some of them from the CSM) then it is clear that none of you are actually involved with players on the ground floor. In the developing that I've done with games, the best changes I ever made all came from playing the game in the manner that my players actually played it instead of simply reacting to bug reports and server load tests. Please consider this.


CCP Devs, Please respond to this post.

You guys have drifted away from us and don't know our plight :-(


you might wanna be more realistic...


Sad

I can't help it..i'm a hopeless romantic and optimist.

**** it, you're right. Evil or Very MadEvil or Very Mad:CCP:Evil or Very MadEvil or Very Mad

Kismeteer
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.07.07 22:47:00 - [25]
 

Want an easy mass test?

Put an announcement that you'll be giving away faction loot at a beacon in like New Caldari on some Saturday morning, maybe 22:00 eve time. Really, any well connected system near Jita, so people can fly around it. See how badly the reinforced node handles it, like where it starts causing problems.

I promise that you'll have a lot of people show up.

Zinq Montilis
Posted - 2010.07.07 22:49:00 - [26]
 

Thanks Blaze for the info, your devotion to the community does not go un-noticed and that is what makes eve better than other mmo's.

Malios45
Posted - 2010.07.07 22:51:00 - [27]
 

I must caution the devs, there is a delicate balance in play. Should you fix the lag issue, you may very well break the EVE community.

Without something catastrophic to complain about, many poor capsuleers could go insane.

Caladain Barton
Navy of Xoc
The Remnant Legion
Posted - 2010.07.07 22:56:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Caladain Barton on 07/07/2010 22:56:16
Originally by: Malios45
I must caution the devs, there is a delicate balance in play. Should you fix the lag issue, you may very well break the EVE community.

Without something catastrophic to complain about, many poor capsuleers could go insane.


I know right?

Imagine the vast hordes of players too busy to poast because they are blowing each other up in a mass destruction fest in Max 3?

Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.07.07 22:57:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Malios45
I must caution the devs, there is a delicate balance in play. Should you fix the lag issue, you may very well break the EVE community.

Without something catastrophic to complain about, many poor capsuleers could go insane.


That's okay, we could blow each other up over it if lag was returned to pre-dominion levels.

Grez
Neo Spartans
Laconian Syndicate
Posted - 2010.07.07 22:57:00 - [30]
 

Love the dev log. More like this, more often please (we aren't getting many tech ones lately :().

One like this from the networking department would be nice!


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