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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2010.07.08 02:45:00 - [241]
 

Originally by: Cobalt Sixty
Originally by: Liang Nuren
The lack of a legal/arbitrated challenge from Ankh is an admission of guilt or no contest - which is career suicide.

Actually, this got me thinking.

Isn't Ankhesentapemkah also the same Eva Jobse of the Piratenpartij Nederland? Or so I was told. My thought being that it doesn't look good for politicians to go around breaking confidences, loose lips can sink more than internet spaceships.


She is, but calling her a "politician" seems generous. Her day job is computer games, and the seat she ran for won zero seats in a proportional representation legislature. Also, she has about the political savvy of a giraffe - that was, in fact, most of the problem with her as a CSM rep.

Besides, if you move this out of the realm of internet spaceship politics, and into the realm of RL politics, this is barely a blip on the scandal-o-meter. If CCP fired her for racking up a $78,000 hotel bill, then maybe it might be back-page news by the standards of real politicians.

Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.07.08 02:48:00 - [242]
 

If some rumors that I've heard (from multiple sources) are true, and I have good reason to believe that they are, Ankh will be very lucky if she isn't charged in a criminal court for what she has allegedly done. If the real truth comes out about what she's (allegedly) done, breaking an NDA or mouthing off on some blog will seem like a drop in the bucket in comparison.

Of course, this post only means something if the truth comes out and we're not whitewashed by CCP and the other involved parties. At any rate, you heard it here first.

Mel Lifera
Gallente
Ambrye Logistics Ltd.
Posted - 2010.07.08 02:50:00 - [243]
 

Originally by: Thrasymachus TheSophist
Originally by: Mel Lifera
Originally by: Thrasymachus TheSophist

As for what is in "CCP's best interest" - I strongly disagree that it is in CCP's best interest to let this sit as is. Just read this thread. CCP's best interest is to get 3rd party legitimization of their actions. If they can't publically disclose all the details (which is a reasonable hypothesis), then at a minimum they should disclose it all the the CSM so that they can confirm the propriety of CCP's actions. After all, the CSM already *knows* whatever super-secret info is at issue (since Ankh learned it as a CSM).



What, have you taken a level in Idiot or something?

An NDA is a legal contract. That means if Ank broke it, CCP has the right to pursue litigation for it. If they choose to do so at some point, anything they say about the matter before the fact can be used against them by Ank's attorneys - or possibly even give her grounds to countersue. CCP doesn't need "neutral confirmation"; but if they decide to get it, it's going to be from a lawyer, a judge, or someone else that isn't a clueless moron like yourself.


You mad?


No, but the fact that CCP doesn't have to tell you **** if they don't want to seems to be driving you people all Yosemite Sam up in this thread.

You are unimportant; you don't "deserve" to know anything about what happened. HTFU and go play the game.

Aliea Konovalev
Amarr
Posted - 2010.07.08 02:51:00 - [244]
 

I have no idea who Ankh is and haven't bothered to pay any attention to the scam that is CSM. But it does strike me as rather suspicious that a vocal member that was recently complaining about ccp's lack of commitment to the game suddenly finds themselves kicked off the CSM with nothing more than a vague violation of nda for an explanation.

Then again this is ccp and I've grown to expect them to do whatever the hell they want with little to no explanation.

Mel Lifera
Gallente
Ambrye Logistics Ltd.
Posted - 2010.07.08 02:57:00 - [245]
 

Originally by: Aliea Konovalev
I have no idea who Ankh is and haven't bothered to pay any attention to the scam that is CSM. But it does strike me as rather suspicious that a vocal member that was recently complaining about ccp's lack of commitment to the game suddenly finds themselves kicked off the CSM with nothing more than a vague violation of nda for an explanation.


Yeah, until you realize that at least three other vocal members that were recently complaining about ccp's lack of commitment to the game were not kicked off the CSM.

Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2010.07.08 03:00:00 - [246]
 

Originally by: Thrasymachus TheSophist
Originally by: Mel Lifera
Originally by: Thrasymachus TheSophist

As for what is in "CCP's best interest" - I strongly disagree that it is in CCP's best interest to let this sit as is. Just read this thread. CCP's best interest is to get 3rd party legitimization of their actions. If they can't publically disclose all the details (which is a reasonable hypothesis), then at a minimum they should disclose it all the the CSM so that they can confirm the propriety of CCP's actions. After all, the CSM already *knows* whatever super-secret info is at issue (since Ankh learned it as a CSM).



What, have you taken a level in Idiot or something?

An NDA is a legal contract. That means if Ank broke it, CCP has the right to pursue litigation for it. If they choose to do so at some point, anything they say about the matter before the fact can be used against them by Ank's attorneys - or possibly even give her grounds to countersue. CCP doesn't need "neutral confirmation"; but if they decide to get it, it's going to be from a lawyer, a judge, or someone else that isn't a clueless moron like yourself.


You mad?


No, he's entirely right. As a matter of forum justice, yes, CCP should submit this to the rest of the CSM for review. Sacking one of nine people who exist mostly to make your life difficult, without the other 8 even knowing why, looks very sketchy. But forum justice is not the only relevant issue here. If she does pursue a remedy though the real-world justice system - which is unlikely, but not impossible - then the CSM's opinion is completely meaningless. I do not blame CCP in the slightest for worrying about that possibility, and covering their asses in case it comes to pass.

Remember, this only happened less than ten hours ago. According to the Massively article, Ankh is trying to appeal CCP's decision internally, and is in the process of arguing it over with them. Knowing how fast CCP works, it could easily take up to a week for that to get sorted out to everyone's satisfaction(or who knows, maybe longer), and only then will we know if anything is happening. At that point I expect either a retraction on CCP's part(hilariously unlikely), a lawsuit on Ankh's part(rather unlikely), acceptance and silence by all involved(plausible), or Ankh to post her side of the story on one of her websites(likely). When that happens, then we can see just how mad the talk of lawyers is. Until then, patience is probably in order, though I'll forgive some wild speculation for fun.

Originally by: Aliea Konovalev
I have no idea who Ankh is and haven't bothered to pay any attention to the scam that is CSM. But it does strike me as rather suspicious that a vocal member that was recently complaining about ccp's lack of commitment to the game suddenly finds themselves kicked off the CSM with nothing more than a vague violation of nda for an explanation.

Then again this is ccp and I've grown to expect them to do whatever the hell they want with little to no explanation.


This is what happens when you don't pay attention - you work off first impressions, and are completely unaware of the fact that you don't know bugger all about which you speak. At least four other CSM members have said very similar things to what Ankh said, in very similar places and in very similar ways. If they're sacking people for opposition, she would be rather unlikely to be at the top of the list.

Loi Shaini
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2010.07.08 03:08:00 - [247]
 

Originally by: Bellum Eternus
If some rumors that I've heard (from multiple sources) are true, and I have good reason to believe that they are, Ankh will be very lucky if she isn't charged in a criminal court for what she has allegedly done. If the real truth comes out about what she's (allegedly) done, breaking an NDA or mouthing off on some blog will seem like a drop in the bucket in comparison.

Of course, this post only means something if the truth comes out and we're not whitewashed by CCP and the other involved parties. At any rate, you heard it here first.


LaughingLaughingLaughing Weasel words make you look stupid, though your normal comments make you look stupid anyway so it's par for the course.

So care to name some of these so called sources? And whilst we are on the subject, who are you and why should we believe your views, let alone care what you have to say?

I guess it's easy to make up stuff when you have no idea what's going on (or the testes to actually make a definitive statement without hiding behind phrases like "I heard" and "someone told me". Rolling Eyes ).

So go away useless weasel troll.

Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.07.08 03:11:00 - [248]
 

Originally by: Thrasymachus TheSophist
Originally by: Mel Lifera
Originally by: Thrasymachus TheSophist

As for what is in "CCP's best interest" - I strongly disagree that it is in CCP's best interest to let this sit as is. Just read this thread. CCP's best interest is to get 3rd party legitimization of their actions. If they can't publically disclose all the details (which is a reasonable hypothesis), then at a minimum they should disclose it all the the CSM so that they can confirm the propriety of CCP's actions. After all, the CSM already *knows* whatever super-secret info is at issue (since Ankh learned it as a CSM).



What, have you taken a level in Idiot or something?

An NDA is a legal contract. That means if Ank broke it, CCP has the right to pursue litigation for it. If they choose to do so at some point, anything they say about the matter before the fact can be used against them by Ank's attorneys - or possibly even give her grounds to countersue. CCP doesn't need "neutral confirmation"; but if they decide to get it, it's going to be from a lawyer, a judge, or someone else that isn't a clueless moron like yourself.


You mad?


Again, what is really at stake here is far worse than some simple NDA breach or other trivial issue. You guys are thinking waaaayyyy too small and insignificant. I don't think Ankh will be suing anyone. If she's very lucky CCP will sweep this under the rug and nobody will find out what really happened.

Mel Lifera
Gallente
Ambrye Logistics Ltd.
Posted - 2010.07.08 03:14:00 - [249]
 

Originally by: Bellum Eternus

Again, what is really at stake here is far worse than some simple NDA breach or other trivial issue. You guys are thinking waaaayyyy too small and insignificant. I don't think Ankh will be suing anyone. If she's very lucky CCP will sweep this under the rug and nobody will find out what really happened.


Sorry, but I'm afraid I don't speak 'intrigue'.

Turdilious
Posted - 2010.07.08 03:16:00 - [250]
 

I would be surprised if anyone gave a damn about the CSM after this incident.

Courthouse
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.07.08 03:24:00 - [251]
 

The CSM just got a lot better lookin. Cool

Serpents smile
Posted - 2010.07.08 03:34:00 - [252]
 

My god what a way to wake up.

EVE drama, best drama. Laughing

Andrea Griffin
Posted - 2010.07.08 04:18:00 - [253]
 

Originally by: Turdilious
I would be surprised if anyone gave a damn about the CSM after this incident.
What? Are you kidding? Drama is Eve's bread and butter. The weeks leading up to the CSM were full of interesting scenarios and all kinds of rumors etc., and it drew a lot of attention from the playerbase as well as those outside of the game entirely. The infamous Larkonisgate didn't kill interest in the CSM - why would this?

What DOES make people not care about the CSM is the ultimate revelation that, despite the CSM being a stakeholder in theory, they have zero practical weight and don't even have any dedicated developer or game designer resources. It's a paper tiger and the information brought back from the recent trip proved that beyond any doubt.

Dramaticus
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.07.08 04:25:00 - [254]
 

she is space Obama

Lykouleon
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.07.08 04:29:00 - [255]
 

God I love this game Laughing

Cobalt Sixty
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2010.07.08 04:59:00 - [256]
 

Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Again, what is really at stake here is far worse than some simple NDA breach or other trivial issue. You guys are thinking waaaayyyy too small and insignificant. I don't think Ankh will be suing anyone. If she's very lucky CCP will sweep this under the rug and nobody will find out what really happened.

Less cloak and more dagger please.

FOEHAMMER006
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.07.08 05:17:00 - [257]
 

Originally by: Cobalt Sixty
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Again, what is really at stake here is far worse than some simple NDA breach or other trivial issue. You guys are thinking waaaayyyy too small and insignificant. I don't think Ankh will be suing anyone. If she's very lucky CCP will sweep this under the rug and nobody will find out what really happened.

Less cloak and more dagger please.



He means civil strike! Uprising! Down with CCP.

Why do you people care so much if she got kicked or not, who honestly cares? YARRRR!!

Miyamoto Isoruku
Caldari
Original Sin.
Posted - 2010.07.08 05:47:00 - [258]
 

Look, no one, not even Finn, opposed Ankh's candidacy more than I did. That said I simply do not trust CCP here, especially not after T20. For CCP to sack a CSM member not long after she made a very vocal blog post excoriating them simply does not seem kosher. Yes, Finn is correct that they have absolutely every right to do so, but then I have every right to give a .44 Magnum a blowjob--it doesn't mean that I should. CCP should give the players at least SOME kind of further information if at all possible, for their own PR as much as anything else.

Frankly, at this point, I don't know which of them to trust less.

Gariuys
Evil Strangers Inc.
Posted - 2010.07.08 06:06:00 - [259]
 

Originally by: Miyamoto Isoruku
Look, no one, not even Finn, opposed Ankh's candidacy more than I did. That said I simply do not trust CCP here, especially not after T20. For CCP to sack a CSM member not long after she made a very vocal blog post excoriating them simply does not seem kosher. Yes, Finn is correct that they have absolutely every right to do so, but then I have every right to give a .44 Magnum a blowjob--it doesn't mean that I should. CCP should give the players at least SOME kind of further information if at all possible, for their own PR as much as anything else.

Frankly, at this point, I don't know which of them to trust less.


T20 was punished for his actions and dragging this dead horse into a discussion every single time CCP does something that players disagree with is getting really freaking old.

CCP is well aware of the PR this causes, they canīt possibly be unaware and they still came to the conclusion that they should.

And while I would love to hear the details, I doubt CCP will deviate from the way theyīve dealt with stuff like this in the past 7 years.

But I trust CCP, itīs a business, if a business makes a decision that appears to be bad for business there where reasons behind it that we donīt know that are good for business.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.07.08 06:08:00 - [260]
 

Originally by: Bellum Eternus
If some rumors that I've heard (from multiple sources) are true, and I have good reason to believe that they are, Ankh will be very lucky if she isn't charged in a criminal court for what she has allegedly done. If the real truth comes out about what she's (allegedly) done, breaking an NDA or mouthing off on some blog will seem like a drop in the bucket in comparison.

Of course, this post only means something if the truth comes out and we're not whitewashed by CCP and the other involved parties. At any rate, you heard it here first.

Bellum posting random trolling on my eve forums Shocked :non-shocker:

Washukanni
Posted - 2010.07.08 06:12:00 - [261]
 

Given that CCP have allowed (and by implication approved) of people conducting 'out of game' personal attacks via these forums and over at SC (run by a CCP employee) including some very juvenile but potentially serious 'real life' threats - dont be surprised if lawyers do get involved.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.07.08 06:23:00 - [262]
 

Originally by: Thrasymachus TheSophist
Originally by: FinnAgain Zero

Lark also resigned and admitted what he did. Ank is denying it and has threatened legal action before.
When dealing with such people, it's not in CCP's best interest to share any more info than necessary.


"Threatened legal action" - if she has in fact threatened - is a strawman. What are her damages? She has no lawsuit - her reptuation is **** to start with.

As for what is in "CCP's best interest" - I strongly disagree that it is in CCP's best interest to let this sit as is. Just read this thread. CCP's best interest is to get 3rd party legitimization of their actions. If they can't publically disclose all the details (which is a reasonable hypothesis), then at a minimum they should disclose it all the the CSM so that they can confirm the propriety of CCP's actions. After all, the CSM already *knows* whatever super-secret info is at issue (since Ankh learned it as a CSM).



Um, except that CCP and the CSM and Ankh herself have all said that this does not relate directly to CSM 5.

Incidentally, where are all the Ankhlings who were calling for Larkonis Trassler to be permabanned? One assumes that this news simply hasn't spread yet, and they will call for Ankh to also be permabanned perhaps later today?

Higgs Foton
hirr
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.07.08 06:25:00 - [263]
 

Edited by: Higgs Foton on 08/07/2010 06:26:04
Anyway.....

I do not know her, but given she run for Dutch parliament for the pirate party makes a NDA violation very plausible. We all know the pirate party gives a rats behind about intelectual and copyright laws, so i wouldn't be suprised if she has breached the NDA because in her opinion it means nothing.

Also i have red her statements and her website, and based on that i conclude miss Jobse likes herself very much, thinks she is extremely important while in reality she is not, and is not afraid to lie or twist the truth to get what she wants. Based on this i conclude i don't like her. I also strongly suspect a case of narcissism here.

I do not know what happened, but in am pretty sure CCP is in the right here.

Anyway, she lives in, which is a city i frequent regularly and know a lot of people. I will ask around for more juicy bits.

Removed personal data - Adida

scrambled
Posted - 2010.07.08 06:30:00 - [264]
 

Again this whole mess proves that the CSM as an idea works, but practically it's just a way for people to score a free trip to Iceland, and to feel important "representing the people'. Well nuts to that.

I wish CCP would take a page from Cedega's book. Subscribers can bring issues to CCP which get published on a website - and every subscriber has one vote per month they can give out. The highest votest entry gets worked on. The CSM could still be there as a checks-and-balances body so we can be sure there's no ideas being floated and voted that implement flying pink *****es in EVE.

Now *that* would be representing the people.

Yuki Kulotsuki
Posted - 2010.07.08 06:34:00 - [265]
 

Larkonisgate:
Detractors: you ****ing pirate! OMG how dare you! ban his ass! forum ban should be game ban!
Supporters: way to get caught noob. you should've known better.

Alphabetsoup sacked:
Detractors: give us the goods. she probably deserved it.
Supporters: OMG leave her alone! just leave her alone!

One side seems to have been much more drama llama about this than the other; consistently through both sackings but on different sides of the candidate. Then again, the other side knows how to troll the first from here to iceland and back.

I for one welcome our [censored hacker name] supported, free-trip to iceland (too late!), vote for me I'm a chick, new CSM member.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.07.08 06:37:00 - [266]
 

Originally by: Miyamoto Isoruku
Look, no one, not even Finn, opposed Ankh's candidacy more than I did. That said I simply do not trust CCP here, especially not after T20. For CCP to sack a CSM member not long after she made a very vocal blog post excoriating them simply does not seem kosher. Yes, Finn is correct that they have absolutely every right to do so, but then I have every right to give a .44 Magnum a blowjob--it doesn't mean that I should. CCP should give the players at least SOME kind of further information if at all possible, for their own PR as much as anything else.

Frankly, at this point, I don't know which of them to trust less.


Look it's been said already, but let's have ti again:

Ankh was not kicked because of her CCP-critical blogging. At least 3 others of the CSM have been at least as critical of CCP.

CCP, CSM members and Ankh herself have all confirmed that this is connected with something that happened in a previous CSM, and is nothing to do with CSM5 (at least not directly)

Unfamed II
Caldari
NPC Corporation
Paisti Syndicate
Posted - 2010.07.08 06:39:00 - [267]
 

"In my opinion, the current CSM is the best and most productive so far, and I look forward to working with the other council members the coming year!"

EmbarassedArrowLaughing

dreynerex
Posted - 2010.07.08 06:43:00 - [268]
 


I consider this and excellent change to the CSM.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.07.08 06:47:00 - [269]
 

Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Nareg Maxence
In her blog, Eva discusses measures that CCP are planing to implement to reduce lag. She mentions two specific actions that they are planing. Since this is technical insider knowledge, I am pretty sure this is covered by the NDA.

You can read her blog at: http://eve-takecare.net/




Just a general FYI; she was *not* kicked over stuff mentioned in her CSM blog.

You said that earlier, quickly followed by a post saying you were just guessing and had no idea. So what is it this time, do you actually have information we dont have or are you guessing again?

Djavo
Midas Tycho
Posted - 2010.07.08 07:12:00 - [270]
 

What's all this CSM about?

Anyway... vote me for your next CSM Representative, I like beer, food and EVE. I look awesome and that is about it!

Rar rar rar!


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