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JennyD
Posted - 2010.07.07 23:30:00 - [181]
 

OK so we going to lose Ankha from the CSM

she had the second greatest number of votes , with no alliance/corp block vote supporting her. Most of her votes gained by campaining.

In her place we get mazzilliu, voted in with an alliance block vote.

She tried to campaign on the low sec vote ( showed she had no clue about how low sec worked.)
her alliances low sec involvement appears to be dropping super caps on a few BS, or smaller ships , for risk free ganks.

Made a cheesy campaign video that basically said `look at me I am a girl , vote for me`

posted on the PL forums that she is not ugly, fat , or stupid so deserves votes (its worth getting a copy of her post )

personally i dont think this will be improving the CSM in any way shape or form.

Ky Vatta
Majority 12
Posted - 2010.07.07 23:33:00 - [182]
 

IMHO, the whole CSM should be re-run, with bloc-voting disallowed



Captain Mastiff
Posted - 2010.07.07 23:38:00 - [183]
 

Edited by: Captain Mastiff on 07/07/2010 23:38:09
I guess CCP don't like hearing the truth.

However, her Evemailing spamming was frustrating around CSM election. She should of been globally muted for the spam.

JitaBum
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2010.07.07 23:39:00 - [184]
 

Hold on - this is a CSM member being removed, not just a player of Eve. The CSM is *meant* to represent us, the players. If one them gets removed then we're entitled to a reason why. CCP declared the CSM as a transparent, player-elected body. Thousands of people voted for this person and they deserve to be informed why she's being removed?

CCP = transparent as long as they look good

Ryhss
Caldari
The Excecutorans
Posted - 2010.07.07 23:40:00 - [185]
 


Quote:
And her replacement? Another elitist pvp'er, the people that CCP so love to favor.
Good. Seems suitable, being a PvP game and all… Wink
It's not just a PVP game, it's a sanbox. You play your way, let the rest of us play our way.

KaarBaak
Minmatar
Seatec Astronomy
Posted - 2010.07.07 23:43:00 - [186]
 

Originally by: Ky Vatta
IMHO, the whole CSM should be re-run, with bloc-voting disallowed





How would you do that?


Cobalt Sixty
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2010.07.07 23:46:00 - [187]
 

Originally by: KaarBaak
Originally by: Ky Vatta
IMHO, the whole CSM should be re-run, with bloc-voting disallowed





How would you do that?




Well presumably in Ky Vatta bizarro-world, Alliance members are disenfranchised.

Taudia
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2010.07.07 23:48:00 - [188]
 

Originally by: Ky Vatta
IMHO, the whole CSM should be re-run, with bloc-voting disallowed





You must be joking. How would you even define a powerblock? Also why would you do this?

Bloc-voting is a consequence of democracy and the mindset of most votes - "he's our guy", rather than "this candidate seems fit". There's no way to prevent it while preserving the democracy.

Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2010.07.07 23:51:00 - [189]
 

Originally by: Hitome Kirishiro
When in the course of typical MMO asshattery it becomes necessary for a Developer to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with an elected player representative, a decent respect for the opinions of said electorate requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
Qft. I've never seen Anhk in game and I have zero knowledge of what her position on PvE etc was, but the megahatred of her on these forums seems, from my perspective, to be totally over the top. If she messed up and broke the NDA, then it's her problem and CCPs. Since it was an NDA violation, I doubt we'll ever find out what it was. She seems pretty obstinate, though, from all I've read about her, so I don't imagine she'll quit the game, unless CCP boot her out. She could, however, if she's clever (not that she seems to be) sue CCP for allowing the mass mobbing that has been going on against her in the forums. The courts seem to take these things seriously these days.

I think I need some popcorn and beer. This is better than the world cup.

Delilah Wild
Posted - 2010.07.07 23:51:00 - [190]
 

Hi Black,

I've said this in other ways, but it bears repeating.

I am not rabidly for Ank. Yes, my thoughts on the games principles and mechanics often align with hers, and thus are at odds with the views of others. Still, I suspect most of us share a greater measure of agreement than disagreement over Eve. Moreover, were I to have my druthers, I'd like us to find ways to benefit all the sectors of Eve. There are certainly many great ideas out there, from carebears and pirates and the alliance blocs.

Indeed, were the angels of our better natures to speak more often on this forum, I think we would have a very productive conversation. Smile

What I rabidly object to is the verbal bullying and trashing that has been directed Ank's way. She is not perfect (none of us are), and I don't pretend to know whether her removal from the CSM is justified or not. But the character assassination (no pun intended) directed at her is undeserved, shames its perpetrators, and shames those of us who stand by and gawk but say nothing.

I know the anonymity of forums breeds irresponsible and contemptuous behaviour. Sometimes it goes beyond the pale and needs to be called to account. I'm pleased and grateful that many of you have been doing just that. Thank you.

Delilah
friendsofeve.wordpress.com

Cobalt Sixty
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2010.07.07 23:54:00 - [191]
 

Originally by: Delilah Wild
I am not rabidly for Ank.

I think Black is more interested in whether you're rabidly for Finn.

FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.07.07 23:57:00 - [192]
 

Originally by: Ryhss
]It's not just a PVP game


Until there's a second shard where there are "pvp flags" that are turned off, there's only one server, and PvP is allowed on every single square inch of it as long as you're undocked. And you can't just 'play the game how you want' because it's an MMO, and CCP has deliberately designed it so that no matter who you are, and where you are, and what you're doing, someone can come and PvP with you whether you like it or not.

Originally by: Black Dranzer
the other is rabidly against.


Nah, I'm not rabidly against Ank and it's not personal. I am pro honesty, integrity, intelligence and for a stronger EVE Online game. I found that Ank behaved dishonestly, withgout integrity and intelligence and acted against the best interests of EVE Online. If she's behaved differently there'd have been no problem, just like La Vista Vista is a solid carebear but he's also an awesome guy who I had a lot of contact with during and after his time on the CSM. I've got no problem with industrialists or carebears, but people who act like Ank did deserve to be called out for it.

Helicity Boson
Amarr
The Python Cartel.
The Defenders of Pen Island
Posted - 2010.07.07 23:57:00 - [193]
 

Originally by: Bomberlocks
but the megahatred of her on these forums seems, from my perspective, to be totally over the top.


It might have something to do with her saying these things:

Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah


“The only whiners are you criminals, who stubbornly refuse to accept the fact that law enforcement isn’t *****ing down hard enough on you, and that it is a logical, realistic and proportional response when Concord and the insurance companies take drastic steps to stop you parasiting scum.”

“If there are people that need to be treated, it are those griefers, that should be locked away and rehabilitated into friendly productive members of society, instead of running around griefing people left and right because it makes their twisted minds feel aroused.”

“I just feel disappointed that the killer is capable of doing such a thing. I’ll never understand that. Surely people have some kind of concience, and some empathy and compassion towards other people? Maybe they just forget that there’s a real person behind those ships. Maybe they don’t care. Maybe they’re ruthless psychopatich sadists.”

“People that use a game to get their enjoyment by frustrating other people definately are antisocial psychopatic virgins.”


As you can clearly see, Ankh is the VERY PICTURE of mental stability, and any rumors of her using cutlery to assault any other CSM members are strictly not relevant. At all. Really. please?

YARRRR!!

TL;DR

Ankh likes to call people psychopaths IRL, while being completely bonkers herself.


TeaDaze
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2010.07.08 00:01:00 - [194]
 

Originally by: Ky Vatta
IMHO, the whole CSM should be re-run, with bloc-voting disallowed

The whole "CSM is run by bloc-voted candidates" thing is simply a myth, though I'd like to see how you propose to "ban" it.

If you look at CSM5 you'll see only 2 of the 9 main delegates who could even be classed as large alliance "bloc voted" candidates. There were a few more large alliance candidates who didn't even make it to alternate status. Hardly a controlling interest.

Ky Vatta
Majority 12
Posted - 2010.07.08 00:03:00 - [195]
 

A pity the next CSM is so long away.....I think I may put myself forward as a candidate next time

To the trolls: If you have a comment, make it on-topic at the very least

Yes, I will argue any point with anyone, I`m not biased...





FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.07.08 00:06:00 - [196]
 

Originally by: Delilah Wild

I am not rabidly for Ank.


Yes you are, and your dishonesty is beneath you.

No matter what facts were brought up that showed Ank's character, you handwaved them away. Quotes that kept their meaning precisely didn't count because they were "out of context". Except, all those that were checked meant the exact same thing in context as they appeared to from a quote and, coincidentally, that was the time that you kept claiming that everything was untrue and "out of context" but refused to cite a single other instance of such redeeming "context." Just like you claimed that all the facts about here were "debunked" but have never provided a citation of that, either. Just like all the facts about Ank were "smears" but you never could show that they weren't factual. Just like all the people who posted about Ank were "trolls" even though they were posting their honest opinions about facts you dishonestly claimed were wrong.

Just like you spared a throaway sentence to talk about how Ank should be kicked off the CSM if it was true she threw something at another CSM member at the summit (funny, you somehow didn't run with that demand...) but then, for post after post, tried to take Sok to task for daring to report the facts (facts are smears, war is peace, Ank is cool). Just like now you're playing schoolmarm and trying to lecture CSM members that they're not allowed to talk poorly about a disgraced and terminated ex-CSM member who was removed for misconduct.

You have relentlessly supported Ank at every turn with dishonesty, reliably.

Of course you're one of her partisans.
Funny, that, being a partisan for someone who isn't a politician anymore.

JitaBum
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2010.07.08 00:07:00 - [197]
 

It really doesn't matter two ****s about who you voted for. CCP can't just dump a player-elected CSM member without giving a reason, when so many players vote for them. They could at least give a reason without going into details whatthechrist

Please do not evade the profanity filter. Zymurgist

Meissa Anunthiel
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2010.07.08 00:15:00 - [198]
 

Originally by: Delilah Wild
Meissa,

Please give some thought before posting denigrating comments about other members of the CSM. Speculation combined with animus only reflects badly on you. Mynxee has scolded you before for this (e.g. spoongate), and many of us expect better from you as one of our CSM representatives.

If it is helpful, consider CCP Fallout's words on a related matter of trolling.

Delilah Wild
friendsofeve.wordpress.com


Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel

Not everyone who lives in highsec votes for ankhe. I got many carebear votes (I'm a carebear), as did Teadaze and Dierdra, at the very least... Highsec proposals are not going to fall on the wayside because the one <expletive removed> member.

Actually this should be better without her in the way to emorage on every highsec proposal, that's my opinion.



I don't post rumors about features (that's what Fallout's words pertain to, linking to a random post from a dev doesn't lend credence to your argument btw)

And I'm sorry, but I'm entitled to an opinion about my fellow members, and how easy/hard they are to work with. My personal experience is what it has been, and I think people deserve to know it. I'm not a big fan of sugarcoating things for political correctness. Sorry if you don't like what I said, you're entitled to an opinion too.

I didn't like ankhe and I'm happy to see her go because she has historically been impossible to work with, though in all fairness it was better during this CSM summit than I expected, but only because I interacted with her only when she said patently untrue things. I don't do ad hominem attacks when dealing with proposals, she does/did, and people deserve to know this too. Mynxee is entitled to an opinion about things, that's her prerogative and I usually agree with her, however her "scolding" wasn't about what I said, but about the fact that I said it, giving free fodder to forum trolls. Whatever, as can be clearly seen, I had redacted my post and decided to let the matter rest (obviously you don't, but I won't comment on it any further).

I don't do speculation either, whatever you may think, and always preface opinions/thoughts clearly as such (hence the "that's my opinion" in the post you quoted).

As far as this thing goes, any NDA breach is really detrimental for the whole process and the trust CCP can expect to have in CSM members. In that regard, I'm effing annoyed (to put in a way milder word that won't trigger the forum censor thing) about what her stupid behavior may do to our ability to get stuff done. In that regard, good riddance...

The people currently sitting on the CSM have varied background and opinions, but are able to work through their differences (or agree to disagree) to get stuff accomplished, things just got easier in that regard.

FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.07.08 00:16:00 - [199]
 

Originally by: JitaBum
CCP can't just dump a player-elected CSM member without giving a reason, when so many players vote for them. They could at least give a reason without going into details


1. Yes they can, they really, really can. The CSM has exactly as much power and position as CCP says they do. If the CSM wants to be 'stakeholders' in more than name, they need to push for it and the community needs to get behind them. Hopefully now that Ank is gone the CSM can get down to business.

2. They did give a reason without going into details. Ank violated the NDA and was removed for misconduct. We may get some good popcorn out of this if she sues for "libel", but even she should realize that getting her name in the papers for accusations of violating an NDA for a software company is career suicide. To be fair, she also was thinking of suing the EVE Tribune for "libel" too, so who knows.

Cobalt Sixty
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2010.07.08 00:20:00 - [200]
 

Originally by: Ky Vatta
To the trolls: If you have a comment, make it on-topic at the very least

Tossing off commnents like the one about so-called "bloc voting" needing to be banned but then refusing to explain further when asked amounts to you being the troll, deary.

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.07.08 00:22:00 - [201]
 

Let us count the current controversial topics we have shall we:

1. PL hacking the game so they don't appear in local and also using said hacking program to have the perfect counter in every match to win the AT8.

2. NC loses crap ton of super capitals. Then they magically get ghost ships right after DT to replace them.

3. CCP claims they do not interfere with with fleet fights, then later takes away a ghost titan that White Noise probed out before NC could and gives it to NC.

4. CSM member breaks NDA by ????? and no information is given out.

5. Gaming websites and magazines are starting to take notice again. Not in a good way either.

Not sure about the rest of you guys but more bad press in the likes of the T20 thing is not going to help this game.

Every CSM election I have genuine hopes that it will be the first CSM to actually accomplish something only to have my hopes dashed sooner and sooner.

It wont be long now and it will be the day after elections in which the CSM proves the rest of the EVE community that it is in fact a joke.

EVE-Online corrupt???... nah... what would make you think that?! Laughing

Helicity Boson
Amarr
The Python Cartel.
The Defenders of Pen Island
Posted - 2010.07.08 00:25:00 - [202]
 

Originally by: Marlona Sky

EVE-Online corrupt???... nah... what would make you think that?! Laughing


Iceland.

nuff said.

Thrasymachus TheSophist
Posted - 2010.07.08 00:33:00 - [203]
 

Wow. What an unfortunate position for CCP to find itself ...

You might recall, the CSM was created as a direct response to the discovery that one (or more?) CCP devs were directly interfering in the game and giving goodies, info, etc. to their favored alliance (BOB). Because the CSM was supposed to represent the player's interest in the eternal and ever-present player/dev struggle, they were to be elected democratically by popular vote.

Ankh was duly elected, receiving the second most votes of all candidates.

Now, the second most popular (by definition) CSM member has been removed by CCP, with nary a detail other than an indiscriminate statement about "NDA violations".

I'm willing to give CCP the benefit of the doubt on this, and I will assume (for now) that Ankh did in fact somehow violate the NDA. CCP deserves that much.

But CCP has a real problem here, and shoudl strongly consider setting aside thier right to lay down the law (which is their right) and provie more details - perhaps even a joint statement that acknowledges that what Ankh did was wrong. If she refuses, I'd like to see, at a minimum, details provided to the CSM and some sort of position from them on whether they agree that she did in fact violate teh NDA.

If she did, she should be booted. But asking the community to just "trust us", when the action is to kick out a member of the organization that was esatblished in direct response to CCP's OWN DEVS CHEATING ... it just smells bad.

Delilah Wild
Posted - 2010.07.08 00:40:00 - [204]
 

Meiss,

Your last post admirably demonstrates speculation and ad hominien arguments. You are as ignorant as the rest of us as to Ank's dismissal from the CSM. You can't seem to stop publicly sharing your dislike of her. And considering this is a matter that will arguably have a negative impact on the Eve community, I think it reasonable to call this trolling.

You certainly do have a right to your views. Yet a bit of judgment on when and how to express them is in order. Mynxee and Dierdra and others are working hard to make the CSM work. If only out of professional respect for them, please stop.

Delilah
friendsofeve.wordpress.com

Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2010.07.08 00:46:00 - [205]
 

Originally by: Helicity Boson
Originally by: Bomberlocks
but the megahatred of her on these forums seems, from my perspective, to be totally over the top.


It might have something to do with her saying these things:

Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah


“The only whiners are you criminals, who stubbornly refuse to accept the fact that law enforcement isn’t *****ing down hard enough on you, and that it is a logical, realistic and proportional response when Concord and the insurance companies take drastic steps to stop you parasiting scum.”

“If there are people that need to be treated, it are those griefers, that should be locked away and rehabilitated into friendly productive members of society, instead of running around griefing people left and right because it makes their twisted minds feel aroused.”

“I just feel disappointed that the killer is capable of doing such a thing. I’ll never understand that. Surely people have some kind of concience, and some empathy and compassion towards other people? Maybe they just forget that there’s a real person behind those ships. Maybe they don’t care. Maybe they’re ruthless psychopatich sadists.”

“People that use a game to get their enjoyment by frustrating other people definately are antisocial psychopatic virgins.”


As you can clearly see, Ankh is the VERY PICTURE of mental stability, and any rumors of her using cutlery to assault any other CSM members are strictly not relevant. At all. Really. please?

YARRRR!!

TL;DR

Ankh likes to call people psychopaths IRL, while being completely bonkers herself.


Ouch, I see what you mean. It was only later that I learned what a massive blast PvP in Eve is and today I'm simply impressed at the inventive **** that people come up with to stuff like the old "fleet up a war target in warp" and at the stupidly expensive stuff that people fly in PvE.

Personally, I think CCP should really push things like RvB etc so as to get people used to the idea that it is after all just a pixel spaceship game and enjoy the PvP aspect more. I've never been in RvB but I suspect that they do more positive stuff for getting people into PvP than any of CCPs nerfs/buffs and other weird decisions do.

Removed a trolling comment and profanity filter - Adida

Ker HarSol
Minmatar
Zip - I
Posted - 2010.07.08 00:47:00 - [206]
 

Originally by: Marlona Sky
Let us count the current controversial topics we have shall we:

1. PL hacking the game so they don't appear in local and also using said hacking program to have the perfect counter in every match to win the AT8.

2. NC loses crap ton of super capitals. Then they magically get ghost ships right after DT to replace them.

3. CCP claims they do not interfere with with fleet fights, then later takes away a ghost titan that White Noise probed out before NC could and gives it to NC.

4. CSM member breaks NDA by ????? and no information is given out.

5. Gaming websites and magazines are starting to take notice again. Not in a good way either.

Not sure about the rest of you guys but more bad press in the likes of the T20 thing is not going to help this game.

Every CSM election I have genuine hopes that it will be the first CSM to actually accomplish something only to have my hopes dashed sooner and sooner.

It wont be long now and it will be the day after elections in which the CSM proves the rest of the EVE community that it is in fact a joke.

EVE-Online corrupt???... nah... what would make you think that?! Laughing


The whole CSM is a charade. Ank getting thrown out because she released quotes from the game producers which confirm that they aren't taking the CSM serious but just do their own agenda and then "consulting" the CSM.

Sure, minor things which CCP anyway wanted to implement are credited to the CSM. But the real deal? Those things which the players now for years demand? Not going to happen - not enough devs for that the producer say. At least according to Ank. I have no doubt to not believe that because it also fits to the things we can see. And for writing that she got thrown out?

Poor.

JitaBum
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2010.07.08 00:50:00 - [207]
 

Originally by: FinnAgain Zero
2. They did give a reason without going into details. Ank violated the NDA and was removed for misconduct. We may get some good popcorn out of this if she sues for "libel", but even she should realize that getting her name in the papers for accusations of violating an NDA for a software company is career suicide. To be fair, she also was thinking of suing the EVE Tribune for "libel" too, so who knows.

When the last CSM member was removed, CCP were a hell of a lot more specific

If she's messed up - CCP need to tell people why so they can make more informed choices in the future... especially since CCP allows expelled CSM members to run again

Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
Posted - 2010.07.08 00:58:00 - [208]
 

So the CSM was setup to reduce complaints and take pressure off the support team.
It has worked very well for that. Especially during poor expansions when complaints spike.

Now that the CSM has actually grown into the vehicle for the mounting complaints from the player-base they try to silence it?

Is today the day Eve Online died forever?

Mazzarins Demise
Profit Development and Research Association
Posted - 2010.07.08 00:58:00 - [209]
 

Edited by: Mazzarins Demise on 08/07/2010 00:58:56
Originally by: JitaBum
Originally by: FinnAgain Zero
2. They did give a reason without going into details. Ank violated the NDA and was removed for misconduct. We may get some good popcorn out of this if she sues for "libel", but even she should realize that getting her name in the papers for accusations of violating an NDA for a software company is career suicide. To be fair, she also was thinking of suing the EVE Tribune for "libel" too, so who knows.

When the last CSM member was removed, CCP were a hell of a lot more specific

If she's messed up - CCP need to tell people why so they can make more informed choices in the future... especially since CCP allows expelled CSM members to run again


Apparently Ankh will be posting an update on her blog sometime tomorrow. Now, whether or not the information provided will be 100% accurate and balanced remains to be seen. I'm not holding my breath though.

Delilah Wild
Posted - 2010.07.08 00:59:00 - [210]
 

A positive contribution, and a good course of action. Thank you Thrasymachus.

Delilah

PS. Great name. Smile

Originally by: Thrasymachus TheSophist
Wow. What an unfortunate position for CCP to find itself ...

You might recall, the CSM was created as a direct response to the discovery that one (or more?) CCP devs were directly interfering in the game and giving goodies, info, etc. to their favored alliance (BOB). Because the CSM was supposed to represent the player's interest in the eternal and ever-present player/dev struggle, they were to be elected democratically by popular vote.

Ankh was duly elected, receiving the second most votes of all candidates.

Now, the second most popular (by definition) CSM member has been removed by CCP, with nary a detail other than an indiscriminate statement about "NDA violations".

I'm willing to give CCP the benefit of the doubt on this, and I will assume (for now) that Ankh did in fact somehow violate the NDA. CCP deserves that much.

But CCP has a real problem here, and shoudl strongly consider setting aside thier right to lay down the law (which is their right) and provie more details - perhaps even a joint statement that acknowledges that what Ankh did was wrong. If she refuses, I'd like to see, at a minimum, details provided to the CSM and some sort of position from them on whether they agree that she did in fact violate teh NDA.

If she did, she should be booted. But asking the community to just "trust us", when the action is to kick out a member of the organization that was esatblished in direct response to CCP's OWN DEVS CHEATING ... it just smells bad.


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