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Delilah Wild
Posted - 2011.01.23 23:56:00 - [721]
 

Troeg, not only are quotes best read in context, so too is the meaning and interpretation of any communication.

For example, here is what you claim I said.

Originally by: Troeg Artheon

Originally by: Delilah Wild

Perhaps yours is simply the bravado that future years or sobriety will cure.


Another instance of your libel toward Ildryn. By your above statement he is either immature or a drunk. Since you don't have proof of either you are making false claims, thus libel.

As far as I can tell you are the only one who is making threats, or at least insinuations of consequences to Ildryn's posts (and Finn's post for that matter.)


Here is what I actually said

Originally by: Delilah Wild
The recent exchanges have allowed Windjammer to systematically pick apart the canards about Ank. And I like his style -- calm, reasoned, and well evidenced.

Ildryn, you just don't get it. Trading on previous threats by making oblique references to them is still threatening behaviour. I've reported you again. Perhaps yours is simply the bravado that future years or sobriety will cure. Perhaps there is something wrong with you, something that comes out in the anonymity of an online forum. I freely admit I do not know, but in any case, there is a record for he authorities to trace. Might be worth thinking about before your next entry.

Now, please don't let me interrupt this enlightening exchange of ideas.

Cheers, Delilah


While I grant the sardonic humour carries the appropriate contempt for people acting like curs, it is also clear as a ringing bell that maturity, a lack of sobriety, or some other factor are speculations on my part. Given your collective behaviour, I may not be far off the mark. Then again I might. I'll leave it to Ildryn to share his intentions when he wrote that post. He has yet to do so.

Troeg, you might also want to share your intentions in continuing to defame Ank. Why is it that making claims about her mental health, claims roundly refuted by people who knew and worked with her, is so very important to you?

This is a serious question. Think about it for a moment. Is this about Ank herself? Are you really that hostile to someone you've never met and is no longer in Eve? I think you said before that you are a programmer. Does that put you in a position to assess Ank's mental health?

Or is it something else that Ank represents that has you troubled? Is it her policy positions about rebalancing? Do you fear the end of pvp as some have claimed? Is it something else?

Look, you don't have to be a cur to act like one on the forums or in Eve. Whether you do so or not is as much an ethical choice online as it is in real life. Trashing Ank is hardly praiseworthy and doesn't reflect well on anyone. Do you really want to be a part of this attempt at character assassination?

If there is some policy position you would like to debate about balance, pvp, or something else, can we not discuss those issues in a more respectful way? I know there is plenty of room to disagree, but please do not make Ank a victim in a policy debate over internet space ships.

Cheers, Delilah

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.24 00:25:00 - [722]
 

Originally by: Troeg Artheon
I agree, Ildryn has not made any threats toward any person in this thread. If you (Delilah) have been reporting him and those reports have been reviewed then had he made threats as you claim he wouldn't be allowed to post more of his "claimed" threats. The fact that you (Delilah) did report him and nothing happened is more proof that you are lying about him. THAT is considered libel.
Actually,ÖÖÖ. something did happen. A CCP moderator removed some of Ildrynís post 684. You can see the result at the bottom of that post in yellow text. They did it quickly, but Iíd already quoted it in my post of 687 where I give him a reply at the bottom of that post. Until just now I was unaware that Delilah had reported the issue. I hadnít thought the veiled threat was important, but apparently CCP agreed with her.

-Windjammer

Troeg Artheon
Gallente
Starfire Oasis
Infinite Conflux
Posted - 2011.01.24 02:52:00 - [723]
 

Originally by: Delilah Wild

While I grant the sardonic humour carries the appropriate contempt for people acting like curs, it is also clear as a ringing bell that maturity, a lack of sobriety, or some other factor are speculations on my part. Given your collective behaviour, I may not be far off the mark. Then again I might. I'll leave it to Ildryn to share his intentions when he wrote that post. He has yet to do so.


Collective behavior? I'm agreeing with Ildryn and Finn about Ank (although I didn't say she had mental issues, only that she had a lack of common sense) on numerous issues such as her inability to control herself in a business setting, her lack of good judgement, to name a few. Before you stated that Ildryn was either immature or a drunk, now you are saying the same thing about me in a backhanded way. If fact, I have YET to refer to either you or Windjammer in a negative way; you are the one who started commenting about me.
Originally by: Delilah Wild

Troeg, you might also want to share your intentions in continuing to defame Ank. Why is it that making claims about her mental health, claims roundly refuted by people who knew and worked with her, is so very important to you?


Again I never stated anything about her mental health beyond saying she lacked common sense. I don't care to defame Ank, what I do care about is that someone with her behavior getting on to the CSM. You probably won't believe me, but I too am a carebear. I've done PvP for a time, but I was also a director in an anti-pirate corporation. I don't care about suicide ganking, but I DO think it's a valid tactic and should not be removed from the game by implimenting harsh penalties for those who do partake in it; which is what Ank stood for. If someone else comes around who has the same ideals and behaviors as Ank I will be just as vocal about that person, and I will point to Ank as an example.
Originally by: Delilah Wild

This is a serious question. Think about it for a moment. Is this about Ank herself? Are you really that hostile to someone you've never met and is no longer in Eve? I think you said before that you are a programmer. Does that put you in a position to assess Ank's mental health?


I'm not hostile toward her, but I do think she lies (see my earlier comments about her misleading resume) and I do think she is unfit to handle responsibility (per her breaching of the NDA). Again I never made a claim about her mental health; but yes, you're right that I am not in a position to assess her mental health. I am in a position to say that she lied on her CV.
Originally by: Delilah Wild

Or is it something else that Ank represents that has you troubled? Is it her policy positions about rebalancing? Do you fear the end of pvp as some have claimed? Is it something else?


See above comment regarding her gaining a position on the CSM.
Originally by: Delilah Wild

Look, you don't have to be a cur to act like one on the forums or in Eve. Whether you do so or not is as much an ethical choice online as it is in real life. Trashing Ank is hardly praiseworthy and doesn't reflect well on anyone. Do you really want to be a part of this attempt at character assassination?


You're the one who is calling me names by calling me a "cur". Again, I haven't made ANY comment about you, so why are you calling me names?
Originally by: Delilah Wild

If there is some policy position you would like to debate about balance, pvp, or something else, can we not discuss those issues in a more respectful way?


This forum is to discuss, debate, and generally disagree on different aspects of the CSM. When Ank entered her name into CSM politics she had to expect people to disagree with her and make judgements on her past, present, and future actions. That is what I'm doing here, I am stated my opinion of her public actions and statements. I have been respectful to you, yet you call me a "cur", who is being disrespectful?

Troeg Artheon
Gallente
Starfire Oasis
Infinite Conflux
Posted - 2011.01.24 02:57:00 - [724]
 

Originally by: Windjammer
Originally by: Troeg Artheon
I agree, Ildryn has not made any threats toward any person in this thread. If you (Delilah) have been reporting him and those reports have been reviewed then had he made threats as you claim he wouldn't be allowed to post more of his "claimed" threats. The fact that you (Delilah) did report him and nothing happened is more proof that you are lying about him. THAT is considered libel.
Actually,ÖÖÖ. something did happen. A CCP moderator removed some of Ildrynís post 684. You can see the result at the bottom of that post in yellow text. They did it quickly, but Iíd already quoted it in my post of 687 where I give him a reply at the bottom of that post. Until just now I was unaware that Delilah had reported the issue. I hadnít thought the veiled threat was important, but apparently CCP agreed with her.


Ah, I did not see when he wrote that. Yes, I don't agree with that type of threat now that I see where you quoted him. I'm a big enough person to admit when I'm wrong and I am wrong about what I stated in my quote above.

Ildryn
Posted - 2011.01.24 04:02:00 - [725]
 

Just offered for you to meet me in person to see if i was a wannabe or not. The offer still stands.
I do have a few trophies i was going to offer to show you along with a picture of my trainer i was going to show you so you could see for yourself in person that i was not a wannabe. Then i figured we could go to the coffee shop and sit down and discuss the details about Ank in person.

Of course since a couple of you were intimidated (even secretly) you immediately jump to the wrong conclusion that it was a threat.
Next time ask someones intention before you invent them in your paranoid mind.

This is possibly why you are protecting Ank from Ank and the other posters on this forum. You perceive them as threats when really they just genuinely wish for her to seek help.

Offer still stands to meet in person. Very Happy

Delilah Wild
Posted - 2011.01.24 04:49:00 - [726]
 

Troeg, if you would like to disassociate yourself from the smears about Anks mental health, I welcome that. For this I happily stand corrected.

As for cur, curs are as curs do. There are many meanings, of course. One is a snarling street dog, used as a metaphor for vicious and unprovoked attacks. Being curlish is acting like a cur. I'll make no apology for identifying the outrageous behaviour of those trashing Ank as curlish and thus curs. Whether one is a cur or not rests on a moral decision we make both in Eve and in real life.

Nonetheless, I say this gently and with respect. I appreciate you standing corrected with respect to Ildryn and that communicates well of your intent. I also respect your right to differ with Ank over questions of policy. Whether we agree or not, I think there is room here for legitimate debate and difference of opinion. If we could depersonalize these debates, and talk about policy issues not people, I'd be very happy.

Cheers, Delilah

Delilah Wild
Posted - 2011.01.24 04:54:00 - [727]
 

Edited by: Delilah Wild on 24/01/2011 04:55:32
Originally by: Ildryn
Just offered for you to meet me in person to see if i was a wannabe or not. The offer still stands.
I do have a few trophies i was going to offer to show you along with a picture of my trainer i was going to show you so you could see for yourself in person that i was not a wannabe. Then i figured we could go to the coffee shop and sit down and discuss the details about Ank in person.

Of course since a couple of you were intimidated (even secretly) you immediately jump to the wrong conclusion that it was a threat.
Next time ask someones intention before you invent them in your paranoid mind.

This is possibly why you are protecting Ank from Ank and the other posters on this forum. You perceive them as threats when really they just genuinely wish for her to seek help.

Offer still stands to meet in person. Very Happy


Trophies? Photos of your trainer?

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.24 06:27:00 - [728]
 

Originally by: Ildryn
Just offered for you to meet me in person to see if i was a wannabe or not. The offer still stands.
I do have a few trophies i was going to offer to show you along with a picture of my trainer i was going to show you so you could see for yourself in person that i was not a wannabe. Then i figured we could go to the coffee shop and sit down and discuss the details about Ank in person.

Of course since a couple of you were intimidated (even secretly) you immediately jump to the wrong conclusion that it was a threat.
Next time ask someones intention before you invent them in your paranoid mind.

This is possibly why you are protecting Ank from Ank and the other posters on this forum. You perceive them as threats when really they just genuinely wish for her to seek help.

Offer still stands to meet in person. Very Happy
It was a veiled threat. You know it, I know it, other people see it and know it, CCP apparently knew it and acted upon it by removing some of your post, CCP didnít think it was a big deal since they didnít ban you, I didnít think it was a big deal, I wasnít intimidated by it and I didnít report it. The veiled threat police are not going to come knocking on your door. Your best course of action is to ignore it, let it drop and not bother with denying it. Alternately, you could fess up and defuse any potential flamers. Your call, your business.

Trophies and a picture of your trainerÖÖÖÖÖ..just what exactly do you think defines a person who is tough?

Ankh doesnít need help of the kind your insinuating. I donít think you believe that anymore, but if you do, all you have to do is read some of the links Iíve posted to see it isnít so.

-Windjammer

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.24 06:41:00 - [729]
 

Originally by: Troeg Artheon
Ah, I did not see when he wrote that. Yes, I don't agree with that type of threat now that I see where you quoted him. I'm a big enough person to admit when I'm wrong and I am wrong about what I stated in my quote above.
Donít worry about it. It was an easy thing to miss.

-Windjammer

FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.01.25 01:27:00 - [730]
 

Post. With. Your. Main.
What's confusing you here?

Originally by: Windjammer
Iíve provided links


Just in case you edit your post later to change it, I'll link to EVE Search and point out that despite your trolling about not providing links, you prove that you really don't care about it and make several claims about threads while not providing links. The fact is that your trolling is pointless, the quotes are accurate. If they weren't, Ank's legion of alt trolls, yourself included, would have pointed out that they were false. I'm not digging up links again just because you're trolling.

Originally by: Windjammer
you make quotes out of context


Lying and trolling, again. And using a predictable pattern of that Ank's alt trolls did during the campaign. First claim that the truth is a slander and a smear against Ank. Then when the facts are proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, claim that they're being 'misinterpreted'. When it's clear that they're not, claim that they're out of context. So far the only 'context' you've attempted to show was also a bit of your trolling.

Originally by: Windjammer

Youíve lied in this thread.


Again, trolling by lying in order to claim I've lied about anything. Very meta.

Yes, you are lying and trolling. I never argued with any CSM about the facts of the situation. Which despite your trolling and lying now, was the substance of your original trolling and lying.
-Either you were trolling that disagreeing on subjective issues is "delusional"
-Or you were trolling that I was denying a CSM member's eye-witness facts

Quote:
I said you argued with a CSM delegate. You did, yet you claim you didnít, saying I made it up.


And here we see even more of your blatant trolling.
You claim it's a "lie". Did I, in fact, specifically say that I did in fact disagree on the political implications? Yes. And you're lying while claiming that I said otherwise.

Quote:

Then, in the same paragraph, you admit to arguing with a CSM delegate


Again showing what that your argument is built on lies and trolling, and nothing else. You claim that I "lie" because I point out that you were lying and trolling, and my disagreement with a CSM delegate was not over anything "straight from the horse's mouth" as you were lying and trolling about, but over predictions for future events. For which, of course, it's impossible to get a prediction "straight from the horse's mouth" unless you're talking to a deity.

Odd bit of trolling to claim that's a lie, though, as if "no I didn't disagree on firsthand facts. Yes we discussed the political implications" can't both be true.

To remind folks who may be confused by Wind's lies, by the way, his actual claim was that "Apparently Zero is incapable of believing anything other than his own delusions even when he gets it straight from the horseFs mouth."

But the only thing I was disagreeing with any CSM member about was predictions and potential consequences. Wind, is a liar and a troll, and wants to pretend that disagreeing with subjective interpretations and predictions of the future is "delusional", and wants to pretend that when I disagreed on subjective interpretations and predictions, that it was really "delusional", and lied that I'd disagreed with anything "straight from the horse's mouth". When only facts, could even possibly qualify as a disagreement on things from the "horse".

Folks should check the relevant post to see the clear and obvious dishonesty and trolling, like trying to claim that disagreement on predictions of future events or interpretations indicate "delusion" and inability to accept facts.

On the other hand Ank, who evinced (or pretended to have) an actual delusion and mental illness by being unable to separate reality and fiction, her, he defends against the mean ol' facts.




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