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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.01.20 13:00:00 - [691]
 

itt: alt nobodies white knight ineptly for a girl in the hope that she'll let them touch her boobies.

FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.01.20 14:21:00 - [692]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow

The above account is inaccurate in a subtle, but very crucial way. I am hampered in replying because to give the details might cause pain to an innocent third party, but I will say this: just before Eva threw the spoon, I threw a :rolleyes: "WTF?" across the room.


Well, fair enough, but I don't think that substantially changes the interpretation of events. Even if someone was being rude, then all that means is that two people were behaving badly.

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
And if, for example, her forum persona was a conscious attempt to scam votes, all I can say is - This is EVE, not Hello Kitty Online.


Yes, harsh gritty and all that. But pretending to be unable to distinguish between fiction and reality is still odd. And if it was all a troll to get votes, it's a damn strange one.

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow

However, it is more likely that she simply had a tendency to over-react to what she perceived as personal attacks.


Ehhhh... "you're an idiot and your mommy hates you!" might be a strong reaction to an individual person. "you and everybody who plays the game like you is a psychopath in real life and you're all scum!" is on a different level, entirely.

Originally by: Delilah Wild
Windjammer's description of Ank's position is right on the money


"And Ank's own description of her own position should be ignored, because it doesn't fit with the position I'm trying to sell."

Thank you for playing, your parting gift will be a lovely halibut.

Troeg Artheon
Gallente
Starfire Oasis
Infinite Conflux
Posted - 2011.01.20 15:13:00 - [693]
 

Originally by: Delilah Wild

Ank may have a defamation case against the usual suspects. They often state that harm done her reputation in game will diminish her employability as a game designer, and they continue to smear her by her real name, long after she is gone from Eve. Claims that Ank is mentally ill are a case in point.

All this says far more about Finn and friend's maturity and integrity, than it does about Ank. It may also end up landing them in hot water. The fact that they are hiding behind internet characters does not absolve them of responsibility.



I would love to see her try to make something of this. "Judge, these people on this internet spaceship game I play are calling me crazy and now I can't get a job. Yes, I did get removed from an elected advisory position on a council in said internet spaceship game due to a breach of an NDA with an international game developer, but I'm really here because these people are saying I'm crazy! Yes, I did throw a spoon during a meeting, and yes, I think people should be penalized in real life for the behavior of their internet spaceship characters. No, technically I didn't work for this video game developer, even though I stated I did in my CV under employment history. You see judge, the important thing is, these people are saying BAD things about me... they're the reason I can't get a job now."



Throwing ANY object in ANY business meeting is unacceptable. The CSM is unique in that it is made up of real life people taken from a online game for a business purpose. They aren't there to make friends, they are there for a business purpose, period! Nobody throws something at anyone during a business meeting; if you have an issue with someone disrupting a meeting you either ask them to stop or ask them to step out of the room. Ank's behavior is indicative of someone who is not in touch with reality and who cannot properly process the way the world around them works. This is someone who claimed on her resume that she "worked" for CCP. She had a skewed perception of reality, one where real life consequences should be bestowed up someone based on their behavior in an online game. I honestly can't believe any logical person could defend her behavior.

Delilah Wild
Posted - 2011.01.20 15:46:00 - [694]
 

Originally by: FinnAgain Zero
And Ank's own description of her own position should be ignored, because it doesn't fit with the position [Delilah is] trying to sell.


Nope. It is your intentional misrepresentations that we are ignoring.

Thank you, but you can keep the halibut.

Cheers, Delilah

FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.01.20 17:07:00 - [695]
 

Originally by: Delilah Wild
Originally by: FinnAgain Zero
And Ank's own description of her own position should be ignored, because it doesn't fit with the position [Delilah is] trying to sell.


Nope. It is your intentional misrepresentations that we are ignoring.



Aaaaaand you're back to that trolling pattern. Seriously, you're not fooling anybody.
Realty is an assault on Ank, the facts are out to get her, the truth is a smear. Do you realize how that sounds to someone who's not trolling for Ank?

Ank's own words, quoted verbatim, are "intentional misrepresentations" of... Ank's own words.
Seriously, who do you expect to fool with such an obvious lie?
I'm honestly curious, what do you hope to gain by your trolling?

Delilah Wild
Posted - 2011.01.20 17:46:00 - [696]
 

Finn, you might find the follow definitions drawn from dictionary.com and elsewhere both helpful to and descriptive of your writing. I think you'll also find the narrative on synonyms especially familiar.

Enjoy.


misrepresent |ˌmɪsrɛprɪˈzɛnt|
verb [ trans. ]
give a false or misleading account of the nature of : you are misrepresenting the views of the government.
DERIVATIVES
misrepresentation noun
misrepresentative adjective


misrepresent
verb
you are misrepresenting the views of the government: give a false account, misreport, misquote, quote/take out of context, misinterpret, put a spin on, skew, warp, falsify, distort, misstate, exaggerate.

misrepresent - 4 dictionary results
mis·rep·re·sent   

[mis-rep-ri-zent] Show IPA
–verb (used with object)
1.
to represent incorrectly, improperly, or falsely.
2.
to represent in an unsatisfactory manner.
Origin:
1640–50; mis-1  + represent

—Related forms
mis·rep·re·sen·ta·tion, noun
mis·rep·re·sen·ta·tive, adjective
mis·rep·re·sent·er, noun
pre·mis·rep·re·sent, verb (used with object)
pre·mis·rep·re·sen·ta·tion, noun

—Synonyms
Misrepresent, distort, falsify, belie  share the sense of presenting information in a way that does not accord with the truth. Misrepresent  usually involves a deliberate intention to deceive, either for profit or advantage: The dealer misrepresented the condition of the car. Distort  implies a purposeful twisting or emphasizing of certain statements so as to produce an inaccurate or misleading impresssion: cleverly distorting the facts to create an impression of his own innocence. Falsify  suggests a tampering with or alteration of facts, records, or documents, especially with the intent to cheat or deceive: He falsified the birth records to conceal his age. Belie  means to create an impression that is inconsistent with the facts, or that contradicts other evidence but it does not usually suggest intent to deceive: Her casual, relaxed manner belies her insecurity.

FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.01.20 18:36:00 - [697]
 

... wow
Anks's own words still an "intentional misrepresentation" of Ank's own words, plus bonus dictionary vomit.


Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.22 19:17:00 - [698]
 

Originally by: FinnAgain Zero
Long list of out of context quotes without links to threads they were supposedly taken from per his post 688 of this thread. Thus conveniently making it difficult for readers to verify the accuracy of the quote or what was being discussed in the quote.
Really, if you’re going to quote someone, reference the post with a link so that readers can see the context in which the quote was taken from and verify that you’ve actually given the quote without another of your lies injected into it. As you’ve shown a propensity for lying and putting your own words into others mouths, this is not an unreasonable request. Though I understand your aversion to truth given the lack of substance in your argument.
Originally by: FinnAgain Zero
Originally by: Windjammer
does not indicate she wished to eliminate PvP anywhere in the game.
Originally by: Ank
The only whiners are you criminals, who stubbornly refuse to accept the fact that law enforcement isn't *****ing down hard enough on you, and that it is a logical, realistic and proportional response when Concord and the insurance companies take drastic steps to stop you parasiting scum.


Again, who to believe? Your claims about what Ank thought, or Ank's claims about what Ank thought.
Truly, it is hard to choose.
Another display of your poor ability to lie and your willing denigration of the reader’s intelligence. Your quote from Ankh is given without a link to the thread it was taken from. You took it out of context and substituted your own. She was advocating for balance to an unbalanced situation.

The Ankh quote you’ve chosen above was taken from a discussion of suicide ganking and the price gankers have to pay. I’ll give you the benefit of doubt and proceed under the assumption you didn’t change her words. Ankh’s point was that it is reasonable to punish suicide gankers in game through Concords response to the situation. Moreover, it appears she was saying insurance companies should have something to say in the issue as well. I’ll assume she might also have had something to say about the standing hit a suicide ganker takes.

Advocating for balance in an unbalanced situation is not anti-PvP. It is pro balance. That she chose to do so in a colorful fashion is neither here nor there. She would hardly be the first to do so and certainly not the last.

Ankh was pro-PvP. She was a strong advocate for Factional Warfare. What she didn’t like was unbalanced mechanics that griefers were taking advantage of.

-Windjammer


Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.22 19:35:00 - [699]
 

Originally by: Scatim Helicon
itt: alt nobodies white knight ineptly for a girl in the hope that she'll let them touch her boobies.
Sooo………when you sober up or grow out of the tweener stage of life, I’m sure you’ll be a little embarrassed by what you just posted.

The reader should really forgive Scat. What can you expect from a person believes that he’s somebody and others are nobody? How much maturity can be expected from someone who is still at that stage of life or intelligence where they giggle like a young school girl when the word “boobies” is mentioned? Some day he/she may become an adult. You never know.

-Windjammer

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.22 20:41:00 - [700]
 

Originally by: Troeg Artheon
Originally by: Delilah Wild

Ank may have a defamation case against the usual suspects. They often state that harm done her reputation in game will diminish her employability as a game designer, and they continue to smear her by her real name, long after she is gone from Eve. Claims that Ank is mentally ill are a case in point.

All this says far more about Finn and friend's maturity and integrity, than it does about Ank. It may also end up landing them in hot water. The fact that they are hiding behind internet characters does not absolve them of responsibility.



I would love to see her try to make something of this. "Judge, these people on this internet spaceship game I play are calling me crazy and now I can't get a job. Yes, I did get removed from an elected advisory position on a council in said internet spaceship game due to a breach of an NDA with an international game developer, but I'm really here because these people are saying I'm crazy! Yes, I did throw a spoon during a meeting, and yes, I think people should be penalized in real life for the behavior of their internet spaceship characters. No, technically I didn't work for this video game developer, even though I stated I did in my CV under employment history. You see judge, the important thing is, these people are saying BAD things about me... they're the reason I can't get a job now."
A court will examine damages incurred, intent of the author and legitimacy of statements made.

-Ankh’s chosen profession is software development with emphasis on games. Merely calling them games does not diminish the fact they are a multi-million dollar industry and therefore real damage can be assessed.
-Law suits can be pursued on the basis of slander and defamation.
-Six months of mischaracterizing a non-event, spoongate. Six months of false allegations regarding Ankh’s mental stability. All of which demonstrably injure Ankh’s ability to gain employment in her chosen profession.
-It wouldn’t take much of a lawyer to build a case which proved real damage incurred by Ankh, willful conduct to cause it and a lack of legitimacy to allegations against her of instability and insanity.

Ankh did not misrepresent herself when she said she worked for CCP as a member of the CSM. Volunteer work is still classified as work. People put such things on their resumes all the time and it is perfectly legitimate.

Gently tossing a 3 inch long teaspoon down onto a table in someone’s direction to get their attention with a small amount of noise is a far cry from the allegation some of you are making. You’ve had opportunity to see and read the observations and opinions of CSM delegates who were witness to the non-event. These delegates do not support the view of Ankh doing anything more than that. They do not support the view that Ankh’s action was out of line with what was occurring at the referenced meeting. Some of these same witnesses have told the public that the incident has been mischaracterized. The witnesses have stated that what happened was not something that would cast doubt upon the stability or control Ankh possesses. Despite this you insist on insinuating Ankh’s action was an act of violence directed as an assault and continue to use this manufactured lie to attack her level of mental stability.

Also, where did Ankh say she thought people should be penalized in real life for what they do in a game?

-Windjammer

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.22 20:49:00 - [701]
 

Originally by: Troeg Artheon
Throwing ANY object in ANY business meeting is unacceptable. The CSM is unique in that it is made up of real life people taken from a online game for a business purpose. They aren't there to make friends, they are there for a business purpose, period! Nobody throws something at anyone during a business meeting; if you have an issue with someone disrupting a meeting you either ask them to stop or ask them to step out of the room. Ank's behavior is indicative of someone who is not in touch with reality and who cannot properly process the way the world around them works. This is someone who claimed on her resume that she "worked" for CCP. She had a skewed perception of reality, one where real life consequences should be bestowed up someone based on their behavior in an online game. I honestly can't believe any logical person could defend her behavior.
Ankh gently tossed a 3 inch teaspoon down onto the table. It was done to make a small amount of noise to get the attention of someone at the meeting. A far cry from having a problem with reality. It could just as easily have been a pencil being tapped on the table or a rustling of paper and it would have meant exactly the same thing.

Ankh seems to have done this to stop something which was disrupting the meeting. It was a far better choice than interrupting the entire meeting to publicly correct someone and thereby embarrass them on a larger scale than necessary. The method Ankh used was relatively discreet and low key and that speaks to her stability rather than lack of it.

-Windjammer

Ildryn
Posted - 2011.01.22 21:31:00 - [702]
 

Originally by: Windjammer
Originally by: Troeg Artheon
Throwing ANY object in ANY business meeting is unacceptable. The CSM is unique in that it is made up of real life people taken from a online game for a business purpose. They aren't there to make friends, they are there for a business purpose, period! Nobody throws something at anyone during a business meeting; if you have an issue with someone disrupting a meeting you either ask them to stop or ask them to step out of the room. Ank's behavior is indicative of someone who is not in touch with reality and who cannot properly process the way the world around them works. This is someone who claimed on her resume that she "worked" for CCP. She had a skewed perception of reality, one where real life consequences should be bestowed up someone based on their behavior in an online game. I honestly can't believe any logical person could defend her behavior.
Ankh gently tossed a 3 inch teaspoon down onto the table. It was done to make a small amount of noise to get the attention of someone at the meeting. A far cry from having a problem with reality. It could just as easily have been a pencil being tapped on the table or a rustling of paper and it would have meant exactly the same thing.

Ankh seems to have done this to stop something which was disrupting the meeting. It was a far better choice than interrupting the entire meeting to publicly correct someone and thereby embarrass them on a larger scale than necessary. The method Ankh used was relatively discreet and low key and that speaks to her stability rather than lack of it.

-Windjammer



3 inch? At least twice as long. It is a tea spoon after all. If you are unable to estimate the length of a normal tea spoon and get remotely close to its actual size then maybe you should not defend it.
Ank is unstable. You and a couple others convinced of her expertise are the only ones defending her. The great majority of people that have spoken on this topic do not like her nor do they have any respect for her. And those that speak against her use their main characters. Ank has not defended herself. Easy answer....she can't. Truth hurts. We are right. Shut the **** up. By the way...if you would like to sit down and discuss this i am still open to it. :) Post with your main or don't bother. Coward.

D'Leh Mannuck
Posted - 2011.01.22 21:32:00 - [703]
 

Jeez, talk about beating a dead horse.

While we are discussing we might aswel op a new thead about T20. Just as relevant.


One chestbeater trying to be the bigger chimp than the other chestbeater. Only makes me wonder if you guys have to tend to your knuckels at night after a whole day of dragging them over the ground.

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.23 00:13:00 - [704]
 

Originally by: Ildryn
Originally by: Windjammer
Originally by: Troeg Artheon
Throwing ANY object in ANY business meeting is unacceptable. The CSM is unique in that it is made up of real life people taken from a online game for a business purpose. They aren't there to make friends, they are there for a business purpose, period! Nobody throws something at anyone during a business meeting; if you have an issue with someone disrupting a meeting you either ask them to stop or ask them to step out of the room. Ank's behavior is indicative of someone who is not in touch with reality and who cannot properly process the way the world around them works. This is someone who claimed on her resume that she "worked" for CCP. She had a skewed perception of reality, one where real life consequences should be bestowed up someone based on their behavior in an online game. I honestly can't believe any logical person could defend her behavior.
Ankh gently tossed a 3 inch teaspoon down onto the table. It was done to make a small amount of noise to get the attention of someone at the meeting. A far cry from having a problem with reality. It could just as easily have been a pencil being tapped on the table or a rustling of paper and it would have meant exactly the same thing.

Ankh seems to have done this to stop something which was disrupting the meeting. It was a far better choice than interrupting the entire meeting to publicly correct someone and thereby embarrass them on a larger scale than necessary. The method Ankh used was relatively discreet and low key and that speaks to her stability rather than lack of it.

-Windjammer



3 inch? At least twice as long. It is a tea spoon after all. If you are unable to estimate the length of a normal tea spoon and get remotely close to its actual size then maybe you should not defend it.
The size of the teaspoon is not my estimate. It is the size reported by Meissa Anunthiel, the so called target of the spoon, soon after the non-event took place. You will find the URL link below. Perhaps you’d care to argue size with her?

Post 22 of the thread found here http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1342770 dated 2010.06.26

Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
The spoon was a standard tea spoon, about 3 inches in size, made of stainless steel, quite pretty. It used to be in Ankhe's cup of whatever. It was sent in my direction and landed on the table. I can only assume it was sent in exasperation to me not listening to her trying to discard my comment as invalid once more, or she wanted me to whisper to her instead, I do not know. Either way, I'm extremely doubtful it was sent with the intent to harm, more as a double function of attention grabber and displeasure expression.


Spoons matching this description and size are often used in serving shots of espresso in miniature cups. The size of cup is designed to hold one or two shots of straight undiluted espresso. In typical service, the small cup is on a small matching saucer, there is a cube or two of sugar and a twist of lemon on the side and there is a small spoon that measures about 3 inches long on the saucer.

-Windjammer

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.23 00:29:00 - [705]
 

Originally by: Ildryn
Ank is unstable. You and a couple others convinced of her expertise are the only ones defending her. The great majority of people that have spoken on this topic do not like her nor do they have any respect for her. And those that speak against her use their main characters. Ank has not defended herself. Easy answer....she can't. Truth hurts. We are right. Shut the **** up. By the way...if you would like to sit down and discuss this i am still open to it. :) Post with your main or don't bother. Coward.
Ankh was advised by Mynxee not to post on the topic. Mynxee was of the opinion that it would do no good and only serve to fan the troll flames higher. Given the history of the last six months, Mynxee’s advise was very good and based upon excellent observation.

I would expect someone of your “bravery” to roll with the majority on any given subject. The great majority of people posting against Ankh are trolling flamers, excited by the spectacle of a good roast and do not care what the facts show or the observations of the people who witnessed the non-event. They’re more interesting in inciting the pitchfork and torch riot.

As for the rest of your wannabe act? Check out the bottom of post 687.

-Windjammer

Ildryn
Posted - 2011.01.23 02:44:00 - [706]
 

Not willing to come sit and in person and chat on the subject?

Not willing to post with your main either?

Whatever your reply if it is not with your main or a private message to arrange a meeting then you need say nothing else.

Ank is suffering what she brought on herself. I do hope she loses everything she was using Eve as a stepping stone for. However i have no wish to see her go thru career death.

She needs to talk to a professional or two. Maybe even some anti-psychotics. I am not referring to spoon-gate. I am referring to her posts about pvpers which i did bother to keep up on. She deserves what she gets. And it won't be a lawsuit in her favor.

You are a troll. You are flaming and causing general frustration. Nothing has changed with all your babbling misleading posts. Ank has said many things that show her to be unstable. She had no business being in the CSM. Now she is not. And won't be again.

Go find another cause. Because Ank is a lost cause.


Troeg Artheon
Gallente
Starfire Oasis
Infinite Conflux
Posted - 2011.01.23 04:25:00 - [707]
 

Originally by: Windjammer

-Ankh’s chosen profession is software development with emphasis on games. Merely calling them games does not diminish the fact they are a multi-million dollar industry and therefore real damage can be assessed.
-Law suits can be pursued on the basis of slander and defamation.
-Six months of mischaracterizing a non-event, spoongate. Six months of false allegations regarding Ankh’s mental stability. All of which demonstrably injure Ankh’s ability to gain employment in her chosen profession.
-It wouldn’t take much of a lawyer to build a case which proved real damage incurred by Ankh, willful conduct to cause it and a lack of legitimacy to allegations against her of instability and insanity.


1. What damage? I'm a software developer in RL, I know what it is.
2. Pointing out that someone's behavior in a certain situation is unacceptable is not slander (which in this case would be libel, not slander.) Libel has to be proved to be false, which in this case is an opinion on my part. According to the laws of the Netherlands I am allowed to express my opinion.

So, you're one of those people who think you can claim that you were employed by someone if you worked with them on something? In RL I work "with" multiple other companies on committees, but I can't put all those other companies under my employment history. It's really rediculous that she put it under her employment history, it shouldn't have been there. If a potential employer sees CCP under her employment history and calls to verify she was employed by them, they will say that she WAS NOT employed by them... thus she should not put it under her employment history.

Originally by: Windjammer

Also, where did Ankh say she thought people should be penalized in real life for what they do in a game?



Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

Of course, but how could someone else's suffering be fun? I'd say that people that enjoy that should be locked away in a mental institution for starters...


Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

If there are people that need to be treated, it are those griefers, that should be locked away and rehabilitated into friendly productive members of society


http://eve-search.com/thread/715249/page/8

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.23 09:03:00 - [708]
 

Originally by: Ildryn
Not willing to come sit and in person and chat on the subject?
Why would I want to allow you the privilege of hiding in a private conversation? I prefer to humiliate you where there’s a chance others can see it.

Originally by: Ildryn
Not willing to post with your main either?
It’s not convenient.

Originally by: Ildryn
Whatever your reply if it is not with your main or a private message to arrange a meeting then you need say nothing else.
It’s not need that drives me. I write because I wish to.

Originally by: Ildryn
Ank is suffering what she brought on herself. I do hope she loses everything she was using Eve as a stepping stone for. However i have no wish to see her go thru career death.
You hope she loses everything and yet you have no wish to see her go through career death. Color me puzzled. I don’t understand the distinction you seem to see between the two.

Originally by: Ildryn
She needs to talk to a professional or two. Maybe even some anti-psychotics. I am not referring to spoon-gate. I am referring to her posts about pvpers which i did bother to keep up on. She deserves what she gets. And it won't be a lawsuit in her favor.
Since you’ve been arguing “spoongate”, I’ve offered arguments on spoongate. If you have other information, show me. Convince me. The people who work with Ankh have made statements indicating your belief is incorrect regarding Ankh’s mental stability and I’m more inclined to believe them than I am someone who hasn’t worked with her.

Eva does not deserve this perpetual thread of persecution. It serves no purpose and has been going on for 6 damn months.

Originally by: Ildryn
You are a troll. You are flaming and causing general frustration. Nothing has changed with all your babbling misleading posts. Ank has said many things that show her to be unstable. She had no business being in the CSM. Now she is not. And won't be again.
I’m not trolling. I’m not flaming……..well not for the most part. I’m posting quotes within context and giving the links to the threads the quotes came from. In other words, the truth and presenting it in a way the reader can verify for themselves. i.e. you don’t need to believe me, go read it for yourself.

It worries me a little to think that I might be causing general frustration. I wouldn’t want to cause you or others mental anguish. I’d hate to think of you gritting your teeth and banging your head against a wall. I sure wouldn’t want you to get so excited about this that you made a mistake that cost you your favorite ship in a truly humiliating fashion. That sort of stuff would bother me.

If you don’t want to read what I post, don’t. If you want me to stop responding to your allegations against Ankh, stop making them or come up with something I can’t refute.

-Windjammer

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.23 09:29:00 - [709]
 

Originally by: Troeg Artheon
Originally by: Windjammer

-Ankh’s chosen profession is software development with emphasis on games. Merely calling them games does not diminish the fact they are a multi-million dollar industry and therefore real damage can be assessed.
-Law suits can be pursued on the basis of slander and defamation.
-Six months of mischaracterizing a non-event, spoongate. Six months of false allegations regarding Ankh’s mental stability. All of which demonstrably injure Ankh’s ability to gain employment in her chosen profession.
-It wouldn’t take much of a lawyer to build a case which proved real damage incurred by Ankh, willful conduct to cause it and a lack of legitimacy to allegations against her of instability and insanity.


1. What damage? I'm a software developer in RL, I know what it is.
2. Pointing out that someone's behavior in a certain situation is unacceptable is not slander (which in this case would be libel, not slander.) Libel has to be proved to be false, which in this case is an opinion on my part. According to the laws of the Netherlands I am allowed to express my opinion.
Well, crud. I think you’re right. It would be libel. It’s printed rather than oral, though I’m sure there’s been plenty of voice communication.
1. Damage through loss of potential revenue. Could be a rough case to prove, but it’s within the realm of possibility if one can afford the attorney.
2. If you and others limited themselves to opinions such as “that was unacceptable”, sure, maybe. Repeatedly advertising someone as mentally unstable, insane and characterizing what she did as an act of uncontrolled violence? Knowing full well there’s no proof of that? Yeah, that might work in a suit.

However, it would be ill advised of Ankh to pursue a lawsuit against people who have been doing this. The first thing an attorney is going to consider is, “is there enough money here to make the case worth pursuing.” Something tells me the answer is no. That having been said, an attorney would be much more likely to go after CCP if he/she thought they had a fair chance at winning or getting a settlement. Argument could be made along the lines of CCP providing a venue for people to attack Ankh, etc.

By the way, when I was writing what you quoted, I was thinking of zero rather than yourself. You haven’t been doing this for six months, have you?

-Windjammer

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.23 09:57:00 - [710]
 

Originally by: Troeg Artheon
So, you're one of those people who think you can claim that you were employed by someone if you worked with them on something? In RL I work "with" multiple other companies on committees, but I can't put all those other companies under my employment history. It's really rediculous that she put it under her employment history, it shouldn't have been there. If a potential employer sees CCP under her employment history and calls to verify she was employed by them, they will say that she WAS NOT employed by them... thus she should not put it under her employment history.
I can see some of your point on this one, but the CSM is somewhat different than what I think you’re describing as your own work experience.

If I understand you correctly, you work for one company and interface with others towards a goal that mutually benefits your company and the others. In that case, the company which is employing you is paying you to work on these committees and thus you have only the one employer instead of being considered a contractor doing work for a number of companies. Do I have that right?

The CSM, on the other hand was created by CCP and works exclusively for CCP and it is a lot of work. Ankh also gives explanation of the CSM in her CV immediately following the Employment section, though she does not indicate it is a volunteer position.

If you’d worked for the Peace Corp for a year or two, you’d put that on your resume`, wouldn’t you?

-Windjammer

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.23 10:05:00 - [711]
 

Originally by: Troeg Artheon
Originally by: Windjammer

Also, where did Ankh say she thought people should be penalized in real life for what they do in a game?



Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

Of course, but how could someone else's suffering be fun? I'd say that people that enjoy that should be locked away in a mental institution for starters...


Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

If there are people that need to be treated, it are those griefers, that should be locked away and rehabilitated into friendly productive members of society


http://eve-search.com/thread/715249/page/8

Your link went to 8th page of an 11 page document. I took a quick look through the page, but couldn’t find the quotes you’re showing. Could you cite the post numbers and page numbers?

-Windjammer

Troeg Artheon
Gallente
Starfire Oasis
Infinite Conflux
Posted - 2011.01.23 15:37:00 - [712]
 

Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

Of course, but how could someone else's suffering be fun? I'd say that people that enjoy that should be locked away in a mental institution for starters...


Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

If there are people that need to be treated, it are those griefers, that should be locked away and rehabilitated into friendly productive members of society


http://eve-search.com/thread/715249/page/8

Your link went to 8th page of an 11 page document. I took a quick look through the page, but couldn’t find the quotes you’re showing. Could you cite the post numbers and page numbers?



I linked to the wrong page, it was page 5.
First quote: Post 137
Second quote: Post 139

FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.01.23 16:07:00 - [713]
 

Edited by: FinnAgain Zero on 23/01/2011 16:24:58

Post with your main.

Originally by: Windjammer
Thus conveniently making it difficult for readers to verify the accuracy of the quote or what was being discussed in the quote.


Trolls will play the "I haven't read it, but I'm prepared to dispute it!" card as you did with Ank's spoon chucking before you 'found' information that you just-so-happened to distort to support you claims. All these quotes were pointed out and cited during Ank's campaign, and not one was ever shown to be false. I know you're trolling about "lying" and what not, but sorry, they're true.


Originally by: Windjammer
another of your lies injected into it.


Lying about me having lied, that's meta-trolling.
Cool.
Originally by: Windjammer
display of your poor ability to lie


Again you lie in order to troll me, claiming that I lied. Meta. Also should be noted that despite your trolling about providing links, you just failed to provide a link. And yet, you're still lying about how the context justifies the quote.

Of course, you were caught lying, claiming that Ank didn't want to end PvP anywhere. I provided her own words showing that, yah, she wanted to end ganking in Highsec. You then lie some more and claim that removing something is "balancing" it. When faced with her own quote saying that "Concord and the insurance companies take drastic steps to stop you parasiting scum.", you pretend that's balance and reducing insurance and blah blah blah.

You're not a very good liar. Her own words say "stop". Not "alter the dynamic for" not "change the profitability for" not "rework game mechanics regarding". Stop. As in end. As in eliminate. As in get rid of. But of course you're trolling for a disgraced crazy girl, so all you can do is claim that, really, stopping something from happening at all is balancing it.

"I need my car fixed, it's making a grinding noise when I turn the wheel too far to the left or right."
"No problem. We;ll just put it in the car crusher and no more problem."
"Wait, what? I want it fixed, not destroyed."
"You're lying, you're lying! I just said I'd fix it by destroying it, you're lying!"

That is, naturally, one of the common bits that Ank's alt troll supporters used during her campaign. When proof was provided that she (or at least a trolling forum persona she created to win votes) was rabidly opposed to PvP and ganking, people would claim that really it was "balance".

Which reminds me, post with your main.

Hrm, let me predict the trolling on these:

Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

Of course, but how could someone else's suffering be fun? I'd say that people that enjoy that should be locked away in a mental institution for starters...


Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

If there are people that need to be treated, it are those griefers, that should be locked away and rehabilitated into friendly productive members of society



"Context context context! Sure, she was evincing the fact that she's mentally unbalanced (or pretending to be in order to win votes), and couldn't differentiate reality for a video game and thought that shooting people in a video game really mean that someone needs to be locked up in a mental asylum... but, um... someone was mean to her first and so she was responding!"

As for all this nonsense about the truth being "libel", I wish the trolling Internet Tough Guys would put up or shut up.

Even the fabrication that spoon-chucking was "gentle" (wtf?), the trollrage that people don't find that conduct acceptable is hardly "libel". "You must find this to be a non-issue or I sue youuuu!!" is kinda funny. As for Ank being mentally unbalanced, all someone would have to do is quote her own words, showing that she didn't understand that people who play cops and robbers aren't really officers of the law and killers.

The defense against libel is that what you're saying is true. As normal people aren't trolling because they support a disgraced crazy video-game-politician, they'll actually recognize and acc

Delilah Wild
Posted - 2011.01.23 16:57:00 - [714]
 

The recent exchanges have allowed Windjammer to systematically pick apart the canards about Ank. And I like his style -- calm, reasoned, and well evidenced.

Ildryn, you just don't get it. Trading on previous threats by making oblique references to them is still threatening behaviour. I've reported you again. Perhaps yours is simply the bravado that future years or sobriety will cure. Perhaps there is something wrong with you, something that comes out in the anonymity of an online forum. I freely admit I do not know, but in any case, there is a record for he authorities to trace. Might be worth thinking about before your next entry.

Now, please don't let me interrupt this enlightening exchange of ideas.

Cheers, Delilah

Ildryn
Posted - 2011.01.23 17:42:00 - [715]
 

Originally by: Delilah Wild
The recent exchanges have allowed Windjammer to systematically pick apart the canards about Ank. And I like his style -- calm, reasoned, and well evidenced.

Ildryn, you just don't get it. Trading on previous threats by making oblique references to them is still threatening behaviour. I've reported you again. Perhaps yours is simply the bravado that future years or sobriety will cure. Perhaps there is something wrong with you, something that comes out in the anonymity of an online forum. I freely admit I do not know, but in any case, there is a record for he authorities to trace. Might be worth thinking about before your next entry.

Now, please don't let me interrupt this enlightening exchange of ideas.

Cheers, Delilah


I never threatened anyone. If you wish to continue to report me it is within your rights i suppose. Would you like to sit down in person and have a nice chat about all this? Might be able to come to a better understanding when you can see facial expressions. Very Happy

Troeg Artheon
Gallente
Starfire Oasis
Infinite Conflux
Posted - 2011.01.23 19:33:00 - [716]
 

Edited by: Troeg Artheon on 23/01/2011 20:40:43
Originally by: Ildryn

I never threatened anyone. If you wish to continue to report me it is within your rights i suppose. Would you like to sit down in person and have a nice chat about all this? Might be able to come to a better understanding when you can see facial expressions. Very Happy

I agree, Ildryn has not made any threats toward any person in this thread. If you (Delilah) have been reporting him and those reports have been reviewed then had he made threats as you claim he wouldn't be allowed to post more of his "claimed" threats. The fact that you (Delilah) did report him and nothing happened is more proof that you are lying about him. THAT is considered libel.

Originally by: Delilah Wild

Perhaps yours is simply the bravado that future years or sobriety will cure.

Another instance of your libel toward Ildryn. By your above statement he is either immature or a drunk. Since you don't have proof of either you are making false claims, thus libel.

As far as I can tell you are the only one who is making threats, or at least insinuations of consequences to Ildryn's posts (and Finn's post for that matter.)

Edit: Add Delilah to clarify who is threatening who.

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.23 22:14:00 - [717]
 

Originally by: Troeg Artheon
I linked to the wrong page, it was page 5.
First quote: Post 137
Second quote: Post 139
Thank you. I appreciate the courtesy.

These quotes you’re using come from the Crime and Punishment section of the forums on a thread titled Goonswarm Podding Activities and occurred in the early part of 2008. There is no section of the forums, other than CAOD, where smack and counter smack are more often seen. It’s almost come to be one of the defining characteristics of that section of the forums.

The discussion covered suicide ganking, the penalties for ganking that were in place at the time and the need for stiffer penalties. This was during a time that Goonswarm’s so called “Jihadswarm” (their name for it, not mine) was near the height of their activity. It should be pointed out that Goonswarm’s over use of the mechanics were largely responsible for a change by CCP to what we have today. This supports Ankh’s view that stiffer penalties were needed to balance the game. i.e. CCP agreed with the position Ankh advocated.

The following quotes are from the thread http://eve-search.com/thread/715249/page/5 referenced by Troeg Artheon.

Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Post 137

Of course, but how could someone else's suffering be fun? I'd say that people that enjoy that should be locked away in a mental institution for starters...

Made in response to Ki An who was against an increase to the penalties associated with suicide ganking.
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Post 139
If there are people that need to be treated, it are those griefers, that should be locked away and rehabilitated into friendly productive members of society, instead of running around griefing people left and right because it makes their twisted minds feel aroused.
Made in response to:
Originally by: Jade Chicken

Here's a little story I've compiled about someone who needs some perscription medication:
Smack by Jade, counter smack by Ankh. Banter, not a statement of belief.

Both of the above quotes are from a discussion about griefing using Suicide Ganking. Not about PvP in general, just that aspect of it. More importantly Ankh repeatedly stated in that thread that she did not want to eliminate suicide ganking. She merely wanted to balance it so that it wasn’t the free ride it was.

Not anti PvP. Pro balance of a particular type of PvP that was being abused. Avid PvPer’s are forever talking about one thing or the other needing to be balanced. This was in both detail and spirit no different a position on Ankh’s part than theirs.

-Windjammer

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.23 23:13:00 - [718]
 

Originally by: FinnAgain Zero
Originally by: Windjammer
Thus conveniently making it difficult for readers to verify the accuracy of the quote or what was being discussed in the quote.


Trolls will play the "I haven't read it, but I'm prepared to dispute it!" card as you did with Ank's spoon chucking before you 'found' information that you just-so-happened to distort to support you claims.
Unlike yourself I’ve provided links to the quotes I use so that the reader can verify both the accuracy and context of the quote. I’ve also provided links to the perceptions of the witnesses of the non-event as told by them as well as their observations of the incident. We’ve even had a recent visit in this thread by one of the CSM delegates who witnessed the “spoongate” non-event and he disagreed with you. My efforts are to show the truth in a way the reader can easily verify for themselves.

In contrast you make quotes out of context and then attempt to manipulate the interpretation of the quote. You refuse to link the quotes so the reader can easily see the context of the quote, argue with the witnesses to the non-event and tell outright lies to support your claims. Your efforts are to distort the truth and make it difficult for the reader to see the truth. You’re not particularly good at it, though you seem to be trying to make up for that lack with sheer volume.

Originally by: FinnAgain Zero
Originally by: Windjammer
another of your lies injected into it.


Lying about me having lied, that's meta-trolling.
Cool.
Nope. You’ve lied in this thread. Plain and simple. You’ve even lied when accusing me of lying in such a transparent way it’s laughable.

Originally by: FinnAgain Zero
Originally by: Windjammer
display of your poor ability to lie

Again you lie in order to troll me, claiming that I lied. Meta. Also should be noted that despite your trolling about providing links, you just failed to provide a link. And yet, you're still lying about how the context justifies the quote.
Gosh. I didn’t really think it necessary because of the transparent nature of your lies, but if you insist here’s just one example from your post 682 of this thread.

Originally by: FinnAgain Zero
Originally by: Windjammer

In the later thread you’ll also see Zero arguing with one of the CSM who were present at spoongate.


Nope. You made that up.
I did not dispute anybody's version of events. I did not dispute anything "straight from the horse's mouth", that a lie. What actually happened was disagreement about the political consequences, which were personal opinions and predictions, which is not the same as disagreeing with the facts as reported by those who were there (the actual "from the horse's mouth" facts).
Here you first quote me accurately, then tell the reader I said something entirely different. I said you argued with a CSM delegate. You did, yet you claim you didn’t, saying I made it up. You lied there, Zero.

Then, in the same paragraph, you admit to arguing with a CSM delegate and say I was claiming you disagreed with the CSM delegates version of events and you claim that’s a lie by me. Since I did not say that or insinuate it, that’s two more lies. The first about what I said and the second about me lying.

You lie three times, in a surprisingly short space, and you provide the proof of your lies in the same breath. This is just one example of what I mean when I say you lie very poorly. I don’t know what’s sadder to think. That you are unaware of how badly you lie and actually believe yourself clever……..or that you think the readers are so ignorant as to believe your lies regardless of how poorly your lie is constructed.

-Windjammer

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.23 23:26:00 - [719]
 

Originally by: FinnAgain Zero
Of course, you were caught lying, claiming that Ank didn't want to end PvP anywhere. I provided her own words showing that, yah, she wanted to end ganking in Highsec. You then lie some more and claim that removing something is "balancing" it. When faced with her own quote saying that "Concord and the insurance companies take drastic steps to stop you parasiting scum.", you pretend that's balance and reducing insurance and blah blah blah.

You're not a very good liar. Her own words say "stop". Not "alter the dynamic for" not "change the profitability for" not "rework game mechanics regarding". Stop. As in end. As in eliminate. As in get rid of. But of course you're trolling for a disgraced crazy girl, so all you can do is claim that, really, stopping something from happening at all is balancing it.
I’ve just finished covering this in post 717 of this thread. If the reader is inclined they can read that post to see another example of how Zero has distorted the truth and outright lied. However, simply put Ankh did not want to remove suicide ganking, merely make its penalties match its impact instead of being the free ride it was back then. That’s balance, not eradication. Proof of this is witnessed by the fact that a lot of suicide ganking still occurs despite CCP’s having made most of the changes Ankh happened to be advocating.

-Windjammer

Delilah Wild
Posted - 2011.01.23 23:31:00 - [720]
 

Originally by: Ildryn
I never threatened anyone. If you wish to continue to report me it is within your rights i suppose. Would you like to sit down in person and have a nice chat about all this? Might be able to come to a better understanding when you can see facial expressions. Very Happy


Ah, Ildryn, perhaps you have forgotten your earlier post with its not so subtle threat to Windjammer. Allow me to refresh your memory.

Originally by: Ildryn
Tough guy wannabe huh. If you wish to meet me i would be more than happy to help arrange a meeting if you were interested. Then you could determine for yourself if i am just a wannabe or not.


This is from your post 684, and is documented by Windjammer in his post 687.

Note to that your threat was edited out of post 684 by the moderators shortly after I reported you the first time.

As for Troeg, perhaps you were not paying attention to Ildryn's antics as documented above.

Be that as it may, your claim that by reporting a threat I am somehow making a threat is nonsense. Such self-serving rationalizations that would absolve you and others from bearing responsibility for your words and actions speak for themselves. Your argument simply cannot be taken seriously.

Still, I'm pleased Ildryn is now trying to make it look like his original threat was a joke.

That means my point, whether acknowledged or not, has struck home.

Cheers, Delilah


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