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Turdilious
Posted - 2010.07.13 04:10:00 - [511]
 

I’m surprised CCP published any reason for Eva Jobse’s removal from the CSM. CCP are more than likely not obliged to. I would have expected to have seen “Eva has decided to leave her position on the CSM due to commitment issues”.

Onomin Vitora
Posted - 2010.07.13 05:10:00 - [512]
 

I feel a degree of sympathy for Eva. I can see the effort and passion she felt for the “game.” But that is as far as it goes. This little event isn’t a Russian Tragedy worthy of lamenting the cross over. Whatever the facts, they are beyond us and buried in red tape we can't cut. So, even I can see that there is only one important and practical question left in the spirit of Eve.

Her stuff, can I haz?

Starfinder Smith
Posted - 2010.07.13 06:15:00 - [513]
 

Good point. I have to say that if it was unfounded, wouldn't we see her making alot of noise about it? Seems strange that she is so quiet about the hole thing. Her blog on take care said she would post something tomorrow, wasn't that a day or two ago? And still nothing.

Gladys Pank
Amarr
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
Posted - 2010.07.13 06:52:00 - [514]
 

18 pages of guff. Who care's she's out of there.

Rothrin
Posted - 2010.07.13 07:33:00 - [515]
 

Aye blizzaed get a 2000 page thread and into the main news, Eve gets a csm delgate relieved of her dutys.

Viral marketing Blizzerd 1 Eve 0

Ebisu Kami
Posted - 2010.07.13 11:01:00 - [516]
 

Originally by: Starfinder Smith
Good point. I have to say that if it was unfounded, wouldn't we see her making alot of noise about it? Seems strange that she is so quiet about the hole thing. Her blog on take care said she would post something tomorrow, wasn't that a day or two ago? And still nothing.


By now? Nearly a week. The kick got published on the July 7th.

N1ko Belic
Posted - 2010.07.13 11:31:00 - [517]
 

It's the CSM who gives a ****

Gistatis Tribunus
Posted - 2010.07.14 09:15:00 - [518]
 

Originally by: Gladys Pank
18 pages of guff. Who care's she's out of there.


and

Originally by: N1ko Belic
It's the CSM who gives a ****


basically (needed bump to reinforce quotes)

Quwon Krammer
Gallente
Five Heaps Mining
Posted - 2010.07.15 22:18:00 - [519]
 

Originally by: Johan Moisander
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Today Eva "Ankhesentapemkah" Jobse was removed from the Council of Stellar Management due to a breach of the non-disclosure agreement (NDA). We are deeply saddened but feel that it was the only possible solution in order to protect the integrity of the Council of Stellar Management. As this is a matter regarding confidential data we do consider this to be a private issue between Eva and CCP, therefore we are unable to comment further.


Nice going CCP, so you are kicking out the only CSM that actually dares to stand up for the playerbase, that doesn't just use the CSM charade (because that's what it is) as a way to get a free trip to Iceland, and for what? For actually trying to keep the community informed, for being the only one promote the transparency which was the WHOLE POINT WITH THE CSM IN THE FIRST PLACE?

And her replacement? Another elitist pvp'er, the people that CCP so love to favor.

The CSM is a sham, a PR ploy and that's it, it's more obvious now than it ever has been before; CCP doesn't care about what the playerbase thinks, it's all just damage control from a terribly managed company with a serious lack of professionalism or business ethics. It's just sad to see good people who actually mean well get dragged into it and humiliated publicly in this manner.

I fully expect this post to be deleted/censored, fully in line with CCP's policy to get rid of anyone/anything that doesn't blindly fanboi and defend them.

Removed discussion of moderation. Zymurgist


I have to agree with the above and say that this action by CCP and CSM has soured me on this game.

Onomin Vitora
Posted - 2010.07.16 03:31:00 - [520]
 

I wish we could get one of those drama movie prologue closings. You know? “Eva, 21 Days Later.” This just to get an idea of what happened to her in later life so that we can all finish the popcorn and move on to the next movie soap story.

FOEHAMMER006
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.07.16 04:28:00 - [521]
 

Originally by: Quwon Krammer
Originally by: Johan Moisander
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Today Eva "Ankhesentapemkah" Jobse was removed from the Council of Stellar Management due to a breach of the non-disclosure agreement (NDA). We are deeply saddened but feel that it was the only possible solution in order to protect the integrity of the Council of Stellar Management. As this is a matter regarding confidential data we do consider this to be a private issue between Eva and CCP, therefore we are unable to comment further.


Nice going CCP, so you are kicking out the only CSM that actually dares to stand up for the playerbase, that doesn't just use the CSM charade (because that's what it is) as a way to get a free trip to Iceland, and for what? For actually trying to keep the community informed, for being the only one promote the transparency which was the WHOLE POINT WITH THE CSM IN THE FIRST PLACE?

And her replacement? Another elitist pvp'er, the people that CCP so love to favor.

The CSM is a sham, a PR ploy and that's it, it's more obvious now than it ever has been before; CCP doesn't care about what the playerbase thinks, it's all just damage control from a terribly managed company with a serious lack of professionalism or business ethics. It's just sad to see good people who actually mean well get dragged into it and humiliated publicly in this manner.

I fully expect this post to be deleted/censored, fully in line with CCP's policy to get rid of anyone/anything that doesn't blindly fanboi and defend them.

Removed discussion of moderation. Zymurgist


I have to agree with the above and say that this action by CCP and CSM has soured me on this game.


Please don't be a emo fanboi because you like Eva. Twisted Evil

dontknowaboutmyships
Posted - 2010.07.17 22:40:00 - [522]
 

She made me embarrassed to call myself a carebear.
How can I sell my inventions if stuff doesn't get blown up?

Gil Harstone
Posted - 2010.07.19 17:49:00 - [523]
 

I don't have a side Pro or Con on the banning issue. I read the thread for the drama, went to her website and noticed this:

"On 19 September 2009, Eva graduated at the Utrecht School of the Arts, receiving her Master of Arts degree. As graduation project, Eva developed a realistic 3D space shooter game featuring advanced physics. For more information about this project, visit the Game Design page."

Now if I worked at EVE and if Eva had any access to EVE code or NDA protected info during her Masters Project, red flags would fly for me. Enough for me to take a serious look at her project.

Just saying. Seems like an important piece of info no one has brought up yet, more interesting then who did what with a spoon.

Dirk Mortice
Posted - 2010.07.19 19:21:00 - [524]
 

Originally by: Gil Harstone
I don't have a side Pro or Con on the banning issue. I read the thread for the drama, went to her website and noticed this:

"On 19 September 2009, Eva graduated at the Utrecht School of the Arts, receiving her Master of Arts degree. As graduation project, Eva developed a realistic 3D space shooter game featuring advanced physics. For more information about this project, visit the Game Design page."

Now if I worked at EVE and if Eva had any access to EVE code or NDA protected info during her Masters Project, red flags would fly for me. Enough for me to take a serious look at her project.

Just saying. Seems like an important piece of info no one has brought up yet, more interesting then who did what with a spoon.



She stole DUST and used it to get a masters degree, calling it now!

Turdilious
Posted - 2010.07.20 02:10:00 - [525]
 

Originally by: Gil Harstone
I don't have a side Pro or Con on the banning issue. I read the thread for the drama, went to her website and noticed this:

"On 19 September 2009, Eva graduated at the Utrecht School of the Arts, receiving her Master of Arts degree. As graduation project, Eva developed a realistic 3D space shooter game featuring advanced physics. For more information about this project, visit the Game Design page."

Now if I worked at EVE and if Eva had any access to EVE code or NDA protected info during her Masters Project, red flags would fly for me. Enough for me to take a serious look at her project.

Just saying. Seems like an important piece of info no one has brought up yet, more interesting then who did what with a spoon.


You might be right about that there may well be similarities. Since CCP couldn’t find a hooker in a ***** house I would be suspicious that CCP stole game design and coding from Eva. That would sound like the most realistic scenario.

Shaemell Buttleson
Posted - 2010.07.25 13:26:00 - [526]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Dariah Stardweller
[The threat of legal action would cause anyone to be careful on what they say. Let's say I broke a NDA by accidently posting a screenshot of some new thingy in a game on my blog. Stuff like that happens all the time but can hardly be called 'serious' or damaging.

...

So I would say that when you put one and one together, it actually points to a minor breach rather than anything serious.


Well, first there's a bit of a difference between someone in a beta posting a screen shot of a game before it releases and real and serious breaches of NDA. What game development company is going to hire a game designer that broke an NDA for another game company? What company *as a rule* will someone that's well known for breaking an NDA? Right now, CCP is all but terminated her career in the game industry - and if they did this maliciously or For Teh Lulz or for player politics or because she blogged things that everyone else blogged or whatever the hell tinfoil hat reason you're coming up with... they're going on the hook for some pretty tremendous legal fees and damages.

No, what we can say is that Eva Jobse (a very noisy individual!) and CCP are both sitting tight and shutting the **** up. This is a strong hint that they both have legal advice (and reason) to do so. She may have posted "I don't agree" but I think that hardly matters considering her resounding silence since.

-Liang


I've been checking on her Take care blog thing every couple of days for the update she promised that was coming tomorrow when it happened weeks ago.

I'm quite interested in this.Laughing


Dariah Stardweller
Gallente
NO U111 Enterprises
Posted - 2010.07.25 20:05:00 - [527]
 

Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson


I've been checking on her Take care blog thing every couple of days for the update she promised that was coming tomorrow when it happened weeks ago.

I'm quite interested in this.Laughing


I'm quite sure you can kiss that update goodbye as I take it she doesn't apreciate having a law suit on her hand.

mazzilliu
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.07.26 02:45:00 - [528]
 

are the contents of lawsuits in iceland / netherlands a matter of public record like they are in the US?

Zso Sahal
Minmatar
Multiverse Academy
Posted - 2010.07.26 03:21:00 - [529]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Good. Seems suitable, being a PvP game and all… Wink


WRONG. Its a sandbox game, w/ pvp being an aspect of it.

FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.07.26 03:33:00 - [530]
 

No. There is one server, PVP is enabled everywhere in that server as long as you're undocked. That it happens also to be a sandbox doesn't mean it's not a PvP game.

Habaticus
Gallente
Posted - 2010.07.26 11:10:00 - [531]
 

Edited by: Habaticus on 26/07/2010 11:18:14
Despite this bit of drama, CSM5 will lay the groundwork for an organized system to track the playerbase's wants/needs and establish a transparent CCP accountability. It is CCP's game and if they don't want to do something they don't have to, but they will have to tell us they are not going to do something and what is the reason. I have high hopes for this current council. Granted there are a couple slugs on it but that's about the right percentage for a group this size. Disagree with them but do support them. It can only make our game better.

As a side I really get tired of this annoying PvP chant that keeps popping up. It is a sandbox. If you want to PvP - fine, if you want to mine - fine, if you want to explore - fine, if you want to build - fine, if you want to do all - fine, etc., etc.. I realize that there are players whose ability/mentality/desire dictate they PvP. That's wonderful - good for you, but please stop whining about the players that make the things and do the things that allows you to PvP.

We have a great game that encompasses many and varied career paths. Why it even allows the concerted PvP'er to whine about the non-PvP'er. There is plenty of troll meat out there, let's leave the CSM off the menu. If you have a concern with them or one of their actions send the Chairman or one of the members a direct message. Bet you get a reply and an anwser, that is if your really interested in being concerned in making our game better.

Be Well

FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.07.26 20:01:00 - [532]
 

Originally by: Habaticus

As a side I really get tired of this annoying PvP chant that keeps popping up.


It's rather silly to play a PvP sandbox game and then get upset because someone points out that it's a PvP sandbox game.

Originally by: Habaticus
if you want to mine - fine, if you want to explore - fine, if you want to build - fine, if you want to do all - fine


And while you're mining someone can shoot you, because there's one server and it's a PvP server.
And while you're building people can shoot your POS and compete with you for markets and wardec you to make it harder for you to get goods to market, because there's only one server and it's a PvP sever.
And if you want to run missions someone can probe you down and shoot you, because there's only one server and it's a PvP sever. because there's only one server and it's a PvP sever.

The fact that it's a PvP game does not mean everybody has to PvP all the time. Team Fortress 2 is a PvP game, and you're perfectly welcome to run around with a medic every single game you play.


Habaticus
Gallente
Posted - 2010.07.26 21:37:00 - [533]
 

Originally by: FinnAgain Zero
No. There is one server, PVP is enabled everywhere in that server as long as you're undocked. That it happens also to be a sandbox doesn't mean it's not a PvP game.


Everything is enabled everywhere in EVE, it's a sandbox with PvP in it and a lot of other things. Finn I think I'll put you on my "To Deal With" list on my knuckledragger acct and have THE induatrialist send you condolancesSmile

SUPPORT CSM

Klann Schreck
Caldari
Posted - 2010.07.27 19:18:00 - [534]
 

Edited by: Klann Schreck on 27/07/2010 19:23:15
Originally by: Habaticus
Originally by: FinnAgain Zero
No. There is one server, PVP is enabled everywhere in that server as long as you're undocked. That it happens also to be a sandbox doesn't mean it's not a PvP game.


Everything is enabled everywhere in EVE,


Last time I tried to use a ship on a mining laser I got told to sod off, dunno about you.

On the other hand i can always launch missiles at a rock.

FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.07.28 03:09:00 - [535]
 

Again, despite the fact that PvP is enabled everywhere in EVE as long as you're undocked but you can't run a production chain on a hostile battleship that has you scrammed...

Absolutely everywhere in Team Fortress II has the ability for medics to heal team members.
Does this mean that TF II is not a PvP game?

Delilah Wild
Posted - 2010.07.28 13:08:00 - [536]
 

Zso and Habaticus have the right of it. Eve is better thought of as a sandbox with pvp, not a pvp-sandbox. A few thoughts.

Some have referred to this sandbox with pvp as a space simulator, a space-based virtual world, or a cosmos. Whatever one calls it, the point is to distinguish between divergent understandings of what Eve is or should be.

To be fair, from what I gather from old players and past documentation, the balance between pvp-sandbox and a sandbox with pvp has been evolving over time. This admits for legitimate disagreement as to the exact role of pvp in Eve. Even so, Eve is increasingly rich in non-pvp possibilities and players.

Whether Eve is a cosmos (or not) is the root presupposition that drives much of what people have to say here, and how we interpret the views of others. For example, it help explains much of the drama over Ank -- "she is anti-pvp and anti-Eve". It helps explain the self-privileging claim that some of us "get Eve" while others do not. And it help explains the responses to various proposals in Assembly Hall.

In the end, the view taken by CCP is a policy decision that will drive the development and refinement of Eve over time. Player outlooks may help shape this policy via the CSM, CCP's monitoring of the forums, and eventually, competition from alternative, space-based virtual worlds.

And therein lies the importance of the distinction.The pvp-sandbox is a narrow vision that constrains the development of Eve. The sandbox with pvp is an expansive vision with far greater possibilities. I'd prefer CCP pursue the expansive vision in a way that keeps its pvp edge, as well as generates the fixes and enhancements to Eve we all know are required.

Delilah
friendsofeve.wordpress.com

Shaemell Buttleson
Posted - 2010.07.29 10:19:00 - [537]
 

Oh FFS stop playing with words you numpties!Rolling Eyes



Aerion Va'rr
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.07.29 13:11:00 - [538]
 

Originally by: Delilah Wild
Zso and Habaticus have the right of it. Eve is better thought of as a sandbox with pvp, not a pvp-sandbox. A few thoughts.

Some have referred to this sandbox with pvp as a space simulator, a space-based virtual world, or a cosmos. Whatever one calls it, the point is to distinguish between divergent understandings of what Eve is or should be.

To be fair, from what I gather from old players and past documentation, the balance between pvp-sandbox and a sandbox with pvp has been evolving over time. This admits for legitimate disagreement as to the exact role of pvp in Eve. Even so, Eve is increasingly rich in non-pvp possibilities and players.

Whether Eve is a cosmos (or not) is the root presupposition that drives much of what people have to say here, and how we interpret the views of others. For example, it help explains much of the drama over Ank -- "she is anti-pvp and anti-Eve". It helps explain the self-privileging claim that some of us "get Eve" while others do not. And it help explains the responses to various proposals in Assembly Hall.

In the end, the view taken by CCP is a policy decision that will drive the development and refinement of Eve over time. Player outlooks may help shape this policy via the CSM, CCP's monitoring of the forums, and eventually, competition from alternative, space-based virtual worlds.

And therein lies the importance of the distinction.The pvp-sandbox is a narrow vision that constrains the development of Eve. The sandbox with pvp is an expansive vision with far greater possibilities. I'd prefer CCP pursue the expansive vision in a way that keeps its pvp edge, as well as generates the fixes and enhancements to Eve we all know are required.

Delilah
friendsofeve.wordpress.com



HWT (Huge Wall of text) just to say "I can neither confirm nor deny that EvE is a PvP related game with a sandbox environment, or that its a sandbox environment with PvP"




Concord isn't here to save you, Concord is here to avenge you.

Leil Ren'Do
Posted - 2010.07.29 23:29:00 - [539]
 

Originally by: Delilah Wild
Zso and Habaticus have the right of it. Eve is better thought of as a sandbox with pvp, not a pvp-sandbox. A few thoughts.

Some have referred to this sandbox with pvp as a space simulator, a space-based virtual world, or a cosmos. Whatever one calls it, the point is to distinguish between divergent understandings of what Eve is or should be.

To be fair, from what I gather from old players and past documentation, the balance between pvp-sandbox and a sandbox with pvp has been evolving over time. This admits for legitimate disagreement as to the exact role of pvp in Eve. Even so, Eve is increasingly rich in non-pvp possibilities and players.

Whether Eve is a cosmos (or not) is the root presupposition that drives much of what people have to say here, and how we interpret the views of others. For example, it help explains much of the drama over Ank -- "she is anti-pvp and anti-Eve". It helps explain the self-privileging claim that some of us "get Eve" while others do not. And it help explains the responses to various proposals in Assembly Hall.

In the end, the view taken by CCP is a policy decision that will drive the development and refinement of Eve over time. Player outlooks may help shape this policy via the CSM, CCP's monitoring of the forums, and eventually, competition from alternative, space-based virtual worlds.

And therein lies the importance of the distinction.The pvp-sandbox is a narrow vision that constrains the development of Eve. The sandbox with pvp is an expansive vision with far greater possibilities. I'd prefer CCP pursue the expansive vision in a way that keeps its pvp edge, as well as generates the fixes and enhancements to Eve we all know are required.

Delilah
friendsofeve.wordpress.com


You're right to some extend, but you're also so very wrong.
As you know you're already on my **** list and I am out to get you, but I'm replying just to prevent others who might read this to fall in the same perceptual trap you have.
First and foremost it's a video game, which has certain game rules.
The gamemechanics allow players (notice players, as in players of video games, not rl people) to destroy game assets of other players anywhere in the game world.
The gamemechanics also allow to some extend roleplaying. But here is the crux. If you're going to get emotional about people's behaviour in eve it is in fact you who are crossing the line between rl and a stupid spaceshipgame, not the so called griefers.
I could be very nasty and ask you why you want this game 'cosmos' to be so morally just, but that would be cruel indeed.

Delilah Wild
Posted - 2010.07.30 16:49:00 - [540]
 

Quote:
You're right to some extend, but you're also so very wrong.
As you know you're already on my **** list and I am out to get you, but I'm replying just to prevent others who might read this to fall in the same perceptual trap you have.
First and foremost it's a video game, which has certain game rules.
The gamemechanics allow players (notice players, as in players of video games, not rl people) to destroy game assets of other players anywhere in the game world.
The gamemechanics also allow to some extend roleplaying. But here is the crux. If you're going to get emotional about people's behaviour in eve it is in fact you who are crossing the line between rl and a stupid spaceshipgame, not the so called griefers.
I could be very nasty and ask you why you want this game 'cosmos' to be so morally just, but that would be cruel indeed.


Now...who's getting emotional here?

The threats.... What fun! But...who's confusing real and virtual life in Eve?

LOL.

Here is what you should do. Post with your main, and make a warranted claim. Include in that argument your own presuppositions about Eve, discuss how these inform your view of Eve's sandbox, and then discuss what that has to do with ethics. Hint: you'll want to pay special attention to the consequential nature of Eve, and then consider whether this makes Eve somewhat different from other games, e.g. solitaire versus craps.

Delilah
friendsofeve.wordpress.com


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