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captain foivos
Posted - 2010.07.10 20:29:00 - [481]
 

Originally by: Thrasymachus TheSophist

This game's pretty damn cool.


Yes, yes indeed it is.

Andreus LeHane
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
Posted - 2010.07.10 20:31:00 - [482]
 

This concerns me. Despite the fact that she was completely unlikeable Ankh seemed to be the only person who gave a toss about fixing FW.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.07.10 20:45:00 - [483]
 

Originally by: Andreus LeHane
This concerns me. Despite the fact that she was completely unlikeable Ankh seemed to be the only person who gave a toss about fixing FW.


Perhaps if she'd been more likable she'd have actually gotten it done instead of offending the CCP director (per her own blog post). Also, we don't have the minutes yet and there's more than one FW supporter in the CSM.

-Liang

Sujanra Acoma
Minmatar
Shadow Kitty Legion
Rura-Penthe
Posted - 2010.07.10 21:45:00 - [484]
 

Originally by: JennyD
Originally by: Bagehi

The AAA Citizens (2668 members) CSM delegate?
The Against All Authorities (2587 members) CSM delegate? (1260 votes)


Sorry TeaDaze, I'm not going to list 102 alliances to reach your alliance that magically pulled 1553 votes out of 255 members. Mazz pulled 1178 votes out of PL's 917 members. Another magic trick!






While we at it I will have to burst your bubble even more sweetie , us girls , we do um , pee , poo anf pass wind occasionally . sorry




LIES

BLATANT LIES AND TRICKERY

RABBLE RABBLE

Turdilious
Posted - 2010.07.10 22:54:00 - [485]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren


Perhaps if she'd been more likable she'd have actually gotten it done instead of offending the CCP director (per her own blog post).




If the votes are anything to go by she was likeable.

Leil Ren'Do
Posted - 2010.07.10 23:58:00 - [486]
 

Originally by: Delilah Wild
Originally by: Trygonus
With as many times as Sokratesz has posted in this thread you would think he was the one removed and not Ankhesentapemkah. Anyone have a count on his post in this thread alone? He is on every page multiple times.


I've wondered about that too. Especially in light of a comment made by Mynxee in a recent post on her blog, Life in Low Sec.

She says,

Quote:
People are probably expecting me to say something about Ankhesentapemkah's removal from the CSM by CCP. However, out of respect for CCP's request that CSM not discuss this matter with anyone other than CSM or our CCP contacts, I'm sorry to have to disappoint you. Smart people with some business insight can read between the lines of CCP's public announcement and formulate many plausible reasons why the release of more details would be a bad idea. I'll leave you to that mental exercise.


It seems clear that Sokratesz is ignoring CCP's request, and Mynxee's common sense.

Delilah
friendsofeve.wordpress.com


Dear Delilah,

You're beyond starting to annoy me with your idioicity and pompous naivete.
You're now on my **** list.

Leil

FOEHAMMER006
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.07.11 02:34:00 - [487]
 

Originally by: Andreus LeHane
This concerns me. Despite the fact that she was completely unlikeable Ankh seemed to be the only person who gave a toss about fixing FW.


Yes, because being in the CSM for quite some time has proven how much work she is capable of doing. Rolling Eyes

Delilah Wild
Posted - 2010.07.11 04:08:00 - [488]
 

Originally by: Leil Ren'Do


Dear Delilah,

You're beyond starting to annoy me with your idioicity and pompous naivete.
You're now on my **** list.

Leil


Isn't this typical. Run out of good arguments and resort to threats.

Come on down to Metropolis. You can find me around here.

But make sure to bring your friends. You strike me as the kind of person who needs to.

Delilah
friendsofeve.wordpress.com

captain foivos
Posted - 2010.07.11 04:36:00 - [489]
 

Choose your fate (in-game), Delilah...

Option A

Option B

Personally, I'd choose B.

Spec 593357629
Exiled.
The Kadeshi
Posted - 2010.07.12 06:18:00 - [490]
 

You would think someone who actually works for a gaming company would have a bit more understanding of NDA's

Sure there are allot of issues to fix with eve, but I think we should be thankful we have any say at all. I've been playing eve for several years now, and following it from the beginning. CCP has made mistakes, but no more than any other gaming company. I for one would much rather give my money to a company that actually cares about their game, as opposed to a company say, like blizzard, who just fires their devs when they disagree with their ideas. A company produces fast food games for the masses without ever stopping to think about what their players want.

To be honest she should be booted, simply for her opinions of other players play styles. None of the other CSM delegates seem to be insulting other players play styles, and calling for their removal from the game, or worse calling them outright psychopaths.

Finally and most important, this person is supposed to be representing "US" in a professional and courteous manner.
Not throwing objects at other players, and yelling at developers. This kinds of childish behavior has no place in the CSM, and clearly demonstrates her lack of qualifications.

Breaching the NDA is really just the straw that broke the camels back,
I SAY Good riddance !!

ihcn
Posted - 2010.07.12 08:55:00 - [491]
 

I cannot understand how people think breaching a NDA isn't a good reason to kick someone off. If they can't trust her to keep things secret, how can they tell her more about the future of the game? Will she be excluded from the conference room while everyone else gets to listen in?

Ebisu Kami
Posted - 2010.07.12 10:35:00 - [492]
 

Edited by: Ebisu Kami on 12/07/2010 10:39:25
Originally by: ihcn
I cannot understand how people think breaching a NDA isn't a good reason to kick someone off. If they can't trust her to keep things secret, how can they tell her more about the future of the game? Will she be excluded from the conference room while everyone else gets to listen in?


Most people, like myself, are just curious why a democraticly elected member of the CSM was removed so completely out of the blue, since the electors (at least parts thereoff) wanted her to be in that position. An NDA-violation on the other hand, is a rather vague concept, that basically covers everything between stealing and selling data from a CCP-Dev-Puter, over making screenshots of the newest remodelled ships, down to accidently stepping on a post-it, that lay on the floor and ended up sticking on her shoe, with the note: "Must get new coffee-mug!!!11eleven - CCP Hilmar".

End of the line is people want to get some more specific info on the breach, rather then a "because we say so", be it out of curiousity, actually valid interest or finding another reason to gloat about the hated enemy.

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.07.12 10:37:00 - [493]
 

Originally by: Ebisu Kami

Most people, like myself, are just curious why a democraticly elected member of the CSM was removed, since the electors (at least parts thereoff) wanted her to be in that position. An NDA-violation on the other hand, is a rather vague concept, that basically covers everything between stealing and selling data from a CCP-Dev-Puter, over making screenshots of the newest remodelled ships, down to accidently stepping on a post-it, that lay on the floor and ended up sticking on her shoe, with the note: "Must get new coffee-mug!!!11eleven".

End of the line is people want to get some more specific info on the breach, rather then a "because we say so", be it out of curiousity, actually valid interest or finding another reason to gloat about the hated enemy.


I agree that its not very satisfying, but it's everything they technically *have* to tell us. Everything beyond that is goodwill from their side, and CCP doesn't exactly have a good rep on that account Rolling Eyes

Ebisu Kami
Posted - 2010.07.12 10:42:00 - [494]
 

Edited by: Ebisu Kami on 12/07/2010 10:43:21
Originally by: Sokratesz
I agree that its not very satisfying, but it's everything they technically *have* to tell us. Everything beyond that is goodwill from their side, and CCP doesn't exactly have a good rep on that account Rolling Eyes


I'm not going to dispute the validality of CCP's decision, because, quite honestly, the current situation hints at an actual and severe breach and as such, I accept the decision. However it doesn't mean I and everyone else needs to be satisfied with the "as is", especially since reality tought us all one thing: Never trust any authority further then you can throw them ;)

Cobalt Sixty
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2010.07.12 11:31:00 - [495]
 

Edited by: Cobalt Sixty on 12/07/2010 11:33:00
Originally by: Sokratesz
I agree that its not very satisfying, but it's everything they technically *have* to tell us. Everything beyond that is goodwill from their side, and CCP doesn't exactly have a good rep on that account Rolling Eyes

Hmmm.

Maybe it wasn't Colonel Mustard in the Study with the Revolver (replace Colonel Mustard with Eva Jobse, Study with Studio and Revolver with a hilariously large & stuffed sack with PROPRIETARY SECRETS stenciled on it) but CCP is actually trolling us (with help from Ankhesencopypasta) while CCP busily reduce the overabundance of clicking necessary in Planetary Interaction - without having to feel obligated to answer any questions meanwhile!

...

Well, at least I can hope

Abrazzar
Posted - 2010.07.12 11:33:00 - [496]
 

Originally by: ihcn
I cannot understand how people think breaching a NDA isn't a good reason to kick someone off. If they can't trust her to keep things secret, how can they tell her more about the future of the game? Will she be excluded from the conference room while everyone else gets to listen in?

A breach of a NDA can get you 3 months to 5 years jail time in Germany if the breach is severe enough. This does not include the damages caused by the breach for the NDA issuer.

A indiscretion is one thing, industrial espionage something of an entirely different magnitude, all covered by a NDA. As long as we don't know how big the breach was, we can't really argue if the removal was appropriate or not.

Cobalt Sixty
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2010.07.12 11:39:00 - [497]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
Originally by: ihcn
I cannot understand how people think breaching a NDA isn't a good reason to kick someone off. If they can't trust her to keep things secret, how can they tell her more about the future of the game? Will she be excluded from the conference room while everyone else gets to listen in?

A breach of a NDA can get you 3 months to 5 years jail time in Germany if the breach is severe enough. This does not include the damages caused by the breach for the NDA issuer.

Maybe they'll have the Icelandic Mafia work her over.

Maybe they already have, but it went too far.

Maybe any day now someone will open a can of fermented shark and find ... biomass they weren't expecting to find.

Maybe this will serve as a warning to others.

YARRRR!!

Dariah Stardweller
Gallente
NO U111 Enterprises
Posted - 2010.07.12 11:56:00 - [498]
 

Originally by: Ebisu Kami
Edited by: Ebisu Kami on 12/07/2010 10:43:21
Originally by: Sokratesz
I agree that its not very satisfying, but it's everything they technically *have* to tell us. Everything beyond that is goodwill from their side, and CCP doesn't exactly have a good rep on that account Rolling Eyes


I'm not going to dispute the validality of CCP's decision, because, quite honestly, the current situation hints at an actual and severe breach and as such, I accept the decision.
How does it hint a a serious breach if we know jack **** about what happened, or did I miss something?

Cobalt Sixty
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2010.07.12 12:20:00 - [499]
 

Originally by: Dariah Stardweller
Originally by: Ebisu Kami
Edited by: Ebisu Kami on 12/07/2010 10:43:21
Originally by: Sokratesz
I agree that its not very satisfying, but it's everything they technically *have* to tell us. Everything beyond that is goodwill from their side, and CCP doesn't exactly have a good rep on that account Rolling Eyes


I'm not going to dispute the validality of CCP's decision, because, quite honestly, the current situation hints at an actual and severe breach and as such, I accept the decision.
How does it hint a a serious breach if we know jack **** about what happened, or did I miss something?
The fact we know jack **** is because nobody has told us, nobody has told us because the breach is serious.

Ebisu Kami
Posted - 2010.07.12 12:23:00 - [500]
 

Edited by: Ebisu Kami on 12/07/2010 12:48:44
Originally by: Dariah Stardweller
How does it hint a a serious breach if we know jack **** about what happened, or did I miss something?


By counting one and one together:
Do you really think, out of all the people in the game, that exactly Ankh would stay as quite as she does, if she didn't do something that is obviously wrong, regardless if she realized the breach at first or not? Not even her blog yields any news at all and that's quite telling, unless she got abducted, tied up, gagged and sits in CCP Hilmar's cellar.

Beyond that, her occupational survival basically depends on if she did break the NDA or not and while I think a lot of nasty things about CCP in general, I do not count legal-suicide to their feat-list.

Dariah Stardweller
Gallente
NO U111 Enterprises
Posted - 2010.07.12 15:45:00 - [501]
 

Edited by: Dariah Stardweller on 12/07/2010 15:49:27
Originally by: Ebisu Kami
Edited by: Ebisu Kami on 12/07/2010 12:48:44
Originally by: Dariah Stardweller
How does it hint a a serious breach if we know jack **** about what happened, or did I miss something?


By counting one and one together:
Do you really think, out of all the people in the game, that exactly Ankh would stay as quite as she does, if she didn't do something that is obviously wrong, regardless if she realized the breach at first or not? Not even her blog yields any news at all and that's quite telling, unless she got abducted, tied up, gagged and sits in CCP Hilmar's cellar.

Beyond that, her occupational survival basically depends on if she did break the NDA or not and while I think a lot of nasty things about CCP in general, I do not count legal-suicide to their feat-list.
The threat of legal action would cause anyone to be careful on what they say. Let's say I broke a NDA by accidently posting a screenshot of some new thingy in a game on my blog. Stuff like that happens all the time but can hardly be called 'serious' or damaging.

And let's asume I get sacked for it. Ppl often get sacked for minor stuff just because it's company policy or cuz management are arses.

So, you got sacked for a minor incident, would you then go shouting what happened to you knowing that the company could STILL start a law suit against you or would you be smart and just let it go, since you know you will never beat the company in court?

I would do the latter and I think 99% of all ppl would.

Eva herself stated she did not agree with the fact that there even WAS a breaching of NDA. That is not the kind of statement you would make if you stole the complete list of features in the next expansion and sold it to a competitor.

So I would say that when you put one and one together, it actually points to a minor breach rather than anything serious.

Washukanni
Posted - 2010.07.12 17:41:00 - [502]
 

Originally by: Dariah Stardweller

Eva herself stated she did not agree with the fact that there even WAS a breaching of NDA. That is not the kind of statement you would make if you stole the complete list of features in the next expansion and sold it to a competitor.

So I would say that when you put one and one together, it actually points to a minor breach rather than anything serious.

Sounds reasonable.

.
.
.

It could of course be linked to some of the old FW issues: Ankh learnt about some of the exploits (not classed by CCP as exploits) and screamed from the roof tops about them, CCP did nothing..so she made the (non)exploits widely known and encouraged everyone to abuse them to hell and back in the hope CCP would do something...so this could all be down to petty vengeance for making them do some work Shocked

speculation speculation Very Happy

Dariah Stardweller
Gallente
NO U111 Enterprises
Posted - 2010.07.12 18:24:00 - [503]
 

Originally by: Washukanni
Originally by: Dariah Stardweller

Eva herself stated she did not agree with the fact that there even WAS a breaching of NDA. That is not the kind of statement you would make if you stole the complete list of features in the next expansion and sold it to a competitor.

So I would say that when you put one and one together, it actually points to a minor breach rather than anything serious.

Sounds reasonable.

.
.
.

It could of course be linked to some of the old FW issues: Ankh learnt about some of the exploits (not classed by CCP as exploits) and screamed from the roof tops about them, CCP did nothing..so she made the (non)exploits widely known and encouraged everyone to abuse them to hell and back in the hope CCP would do something...so this could all be down to petty vengeance for making them do some work Shocked

speculation speculation Very Happy
Could be, but like you said, it's all speculation. And I doubt we'll ever hear more about it. :P

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.07.12 20:31:00 - [504]
 

Originally by: Dariah Stardweller
[The threat of legal action would cause anyone to be careful on what they say. Let's say I broke a NDA by accidently posting a screenshot of some new thingy in a game on my blog. Stuff like that happens all the time but can hardly be called 'serious' or damaging.

...

So I would say that when you put one and one together, it actually points to a minor breach rather than anything serious.


Well, first there's a bit of a difference between someone in a beta posting a screen shot of a game before it releases and real and serious breaches of NDA. What game development company is going to hire a game designer that broke an NDA for another game company? What company *as a rule* will someone that's well known for breaking an NDA? Right now, CCP is all but terminated her career in the game industry - and if they did this maliciously or For Teh Lulz or for player politics or because she blogged things that everyone else blogged or whatever the hell tinfoil hat reason you're coming up with... they're going on the hook for some pretty tremendous legal fees and damages.

No, what we can say is that Eva Jobse (a very noisy individual!) and CCP are both sitting tight and shutting the **** up. This is a strong hint that they both have legal advice (and reason) to do so. She may have posted "I don't agree" but I think that hardly matters considering her resounding silence since.

-Liang

Thrasymachus TheSophist
Posted - 2010.07.12 22:32:00 - [505]
 

FWIW, I agree with Liang's analysis, but not the strength of his convictions.

Put a gun to my head and say: Who's right, CCP or Eva? I choose CCP.

But I'm not totally sold, since she has denied it and we know little other than accusation vs. denial.

Only time will tell. Hopefully if there is a defense, people won't be so jaded based on prejudices, speculation and internet-hype-mongering that they will be able to consider the facts with an open mind.

captain foivos
Posted - 2010.07.12 23:03:00 - [506]
 

Things wouldn't be so speculatory if Eva had not fallen off the face of the universe.

Is anyone willing to place a bet that Ankh got hit by a bus or something after the NDA breach?

Just kidding, I doubt that happened. But what's actually happened to her since her removal is of much interest and mystery...

FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.07.12 23:19:00 - [507]
 

Most likely answer...

-Like Lark, her main and her alts were all banned (this is why we haven't seen some of the obvious alts who were posting constantly during Ank's campaign)
-Also, Ank realizes that right now that "Eva Jobse" may soon be a google search that yields up the Massively article (or similar ones about the alleged NDA violation) as one of the very first answers, and she's determined to save her career prospects by suing CCP. If that's the case she'd have to be crazy(er) to blab on the 'net rather than keeping it quiet and forcing CCP to gather information via Discovery.

Loi Shaini
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2010.07.13 00:00:00 - [508]
 

We want to know how it was all done so that we can get rid of the rest of the CSM by the same method.

Someone out there (who is not currently in the CSM as they know but for obvious reasons won't tell Wink) must know what the secret is!!

Maybe it was her membership with a certain political party in her home country that advocates a method of software distribution that is anathema to CCP and other development houses. This was, I suspect, the main reason for it - which begs the question - if we send the other CSM members application forms for that group, will they all be booted? Or maybe we just sign them up anyway Laughing .

Cobalt Sixty
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2010.07.13 01:15:00 - [509]
 

Originally by: Loi Shaini
Maybe it was her membership with a certain political party in her home country that advocates a method of software distribution that is anathema to CCP and other development houses. This was, I suspect, the main reason for it - which begs the question - if we send the other CSM members application forms for that group, will they all be booted? Or maybe we just sign them up anyway Laughing .
I'm going to stop you right there to point out that I've already seen at least one huffy post (here or on Massively) from someone who claimed to be in the UK branch of the Piratpartiet, who apparently stated that Eva Jobse was pretty much on her own and that they didn't support whatever she'd done to breach the NDA - that they support copyright, they just want to make the copyright system fairer for consumers.

I'm jumping on you, because I doubt CCP would appreciate any sort of rumor that they canned her for RL political reasons - that sort of thing is anathema to almost everyone.

Noun Verber
Gallente
Posted - 2010.07.13 02:32:00 - [510]
 

Originally by: Delilah Wild
This is so whether Ank is guilty or innocent.




Funny, I thought that by expelling her, CCP would have enough proof to say she's guilty


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