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Anar Chism
Amarr
Posted - 2010.07.15 21:12:00 - [211]
 

I dont see any reason for adjustment at all, the Pi market is going great.
Less smart people got screwed by mantra P1 for 385 isk minimum, NPC seeded going sky high, and get flushed by less greedy traders.

Now have overpriced poisoned Pi in their hangar and hoping for some help to get their isk back. At least part of it.
Yes, it is just normal.

FilterRelease
Posted - 2010.07.15 21:59:00 - [212]
 

Originally by: Talonyc a'Tsuj
Originally by: pmchem
I post with logic, numbers, spreadsheets not created by me vetted by other players in S&I, while a manipulator like the one above just posts a vague claim of 'flawed' and a panic declarative to 'sell'.

Check the long-term (20-day) price trends for CE/GS, check the spreadsheets, examine the sheer number of buy orders and 0.01 market pvp in buy orders -- and know I'm the one speaking the truth.


Hear this. I offer conventional wisdom and pure logic. CE is at 10x of its NPC value. You didn't seriously believe that it would go to 20x-50x value??? If so, then it's time to reconsider and take cold facts into account. Those charts were made to manipulate you into buying. How convenient of you. Please. It's time to sell. Everything you have.


You forget that ccp has a interest in inflating your iskies away. Why would they want deflation and each isk to be worth more? It doesn't serve them long term. But I understand why you do what you do :)

Anar Chism
Amarr
Posted - 2010.07.15 22:05:00 - [213]
 

It's not about inflation or deflation, but simple harvesting.
******s bleeded to death overbidding each other to get a piece of golden NPC Pi items.
Tards get flushed. And it will happen again, and again, and again, according to amount of Pi stockpiled for years at best.

FilterRelease
Posted - 2010.07.15 22:07:00 - [214]
 

Edited by: FilterRelease on 15/07/2010 22:10:14
Originally by: Anar Chism
It's not about inflation or deflation, but simple harvesting.
******s bleeded to death overbidding each other to get a piece of golden NPC Pi items.
Tards get flushed. And it will happen again, and again, and again, according to amount of Pi stockpiled for years at best.



Yes but if those first widgets go up in price then look at t2 prices. They are on the rise. Everything will inflate in price. We have been deflating for how long now? This is good for ccp. Also PI better get MORE profitable in iskie amounts and inflation is a good way to make that happen.

Let me also add I'm not in cash anymore (I have enough not to hurt). I am sitting in t2 and pi. If prices rise I rise Cool

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2010.07.15 23:05:00 - [215]
 

Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 16/07/2010 13:07:06
Originally by: Talonyc a'Tsuj


Anyone can see those charts are flawed. Even if they weren't flawed,


Then you should have no difficult articulating those flaws.

Ari Chu
Posted - 2010.07.16 00:10:00 - [216]
 

Colonies cost 10mil to build.

I'm really looking forward to seeing how DUST will be implemented. How much would people be willing to pay to destroy a colony that can be rebuilt very quickly for 10M isk?

Even if the # of Merc groups that are active is sufficiently low enough were every day there is exactly 1 colony attacked and destroyed (meaning that the price to hire mercs are as high as they could possibly be, presuming that EVE players have to bid for the services)..... What is the average expected cost?

Would someone pay, every day, 100Mil to destroy a colony that could be rebuilt and was only producing 1M per day? Would they pay 10mil per day? What if the colony produced 10mil worth of materials per day?

When people try to calculate what the long term values of PI are going to be - they should atleast try to get a handle upon what impact DUST will have. Maybe DUST will fail within a month of release, thereby having no impact?

Patri Andari
Caldari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
Posted - 2010.07.16 00:26:00 - [217]
 

Made my isk and am happy with the return

Now to make more i could re-invest in P1-P3 or use what I have to make P4 items cheaply and cash in that way.

I no longer make many P1-P3. It's stupid. They drop you know?

I import P2-P3 from drops I aquire casually (no clicky clicky) and produce the rest. P4 is where the real isk is at! The choice is obvious. Import your P1-P3 items or produce them. Since most P2-P3 items drop from NPCs ( including GS available in huge amounts in Caldari space) you have to do your homework to find out where and who to find the items you need/want.

Hold on to your stockpiles fools! I neither want or need it! NPCs drop them just fine for my taste. Very Happy Oh and the items I recover from drops....are FREE! Very Happy

Btw Noobs are in your mission space stealing your PI products!

Get in there Mortimer and sell, sell sell!






MMarlon
SRBI
Circle-Of-Two
Posted - 2010.07.16 00:43:00 - [218]
 

Heh, nice try! Very Happy
But meh, we are soo greedy, we will risk our 20x profit at present price to get additional 2x on top on that.
Ya, the spreadsheet don't show so, but that's irrelevant, one told somewhere that it will go 100K, maybe 200K, or million, who knows... LaughingLaughingLaughing

Patri Andari
Caldari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
Posted - 2010.07.16 01:09:00 - [219]
 

Edited by: Patri Andari on 16/07/2010 01:18:05
Originally by: MMarlon
Heh, nice try! Very Happy
But meh, we are soo greedy, we will risk our 20x profit at present price to get additional 2x on top on that.
Ya, the spreadsheet don't show so, but that's irrelevant, one told somewhere that it will go 100K, maybe 200K, or million, who knows... LaughingLaughingLaughing


ORLY? then I think you have called my bluff.

Let's try:

Organic Mortar Applicators Current sale (in Jita)

How made?

6X robotics (NPCc drop 70 from convoy)
40X Bacteriae (NPCs drop over 1000 from convoy)
6X Condensates (no NPC drops recorded but costs 60,000 per unit in Jita)= 360,000.00 (Can buy or produce)

Sale Price? (Jita) = 617,899,99
Buy Price? (Jita) = 506,036.89

So, spending 360,000 (worst case scenario). plus import/export costs will yield a tidy profit if the items used are not gained by clicky but by pirating.

Put that in your spread sheet and smoke it!




MMarlon
SRBI
Circle-Of-Two
Posted - 2010.07.16 01:30:00 - [220]
 

What? I should petition CCP at once!
Who dares to touch my stockpiled GS worth hundreds of billions at this price, or thousands of billions at projected price in 7 years?!? I'm so frustrated, I'll sell now couple of millions just for fun.
---Checking demand---
What?!? There is no enough buy orders just to fill small portion of my stash.
Oh, what a worthless junk i collected... Laughing

Maria Yumeno
Gallente
Posted - 2010.07.16 01:43:00 - [221]
 

Edited by: Maria Yumeno on 16/07/2010 01:44:37
I don't see there is any way robotics is not going to increase.

The only downwards pressure on the market is the (finite) stockpiles.
They went up to 28k this weekend which was the point a lot of investors decided to cash out.
This weekend will see a similar thing, people getting scared and dumping.
The difference will be that at these prices it is more risky speculating on them and so some of the demand has gone. This will happen until the price drops to say 15k isk, then everyone will jump back on the bandwagon pushing the prices back to 30k easily.

NPC drops are no where near enough to cover the amount of demand there is from pos', t2 production and pos module production.

Edit - You might wanna look at other npc prices. Oxides are around 9k isk (still decreasing) uranium is 12k isk and decreasing slowly. But It would take a long time to drop below 5k (if they ever do). CE at 2k isk is a steal



Patri Andari
Caldari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
Posted - 2010.07.16 01:44:00 - [222]
 

Once folks figure out where and when to attack an NPC convoy, the profits will know no ends!

It used to be segregated by the products sold at each station, but that has changed. Now it seems each race carries a primary, secondary and tertiary PI product along with mass amounts of consumer goods.

I am still researching and I think I will keep the results private now as the returns seem to be hefty. I will say this though, The tertiary product of MANY Caldari corporations is Guidance Systems. Very Happy They drop pretty often.

Patri Andari
Caldari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
Posted - 2010.07.16 01:53:00 - [223]
 

Originally by: Maria Yumeno
Edited by: Maria Yumeno on 16/07/2010 01:44:37
I don't see there is any way robotics is not going to increase.

The only downwards pressure on the market is the (finite) stockpiles.
They went up to 28k this weekend which was the point a lot of investors decided to cash out.
This weekend will see a similar thing, people getting scared and dumping.
The difference will be that at these prices it is more risky speculating on them and so some of the demand has gone. This will happen until the price drops to say 15k isk, then everyone will jump back on the bandwagon pushing the prices back to 30k easily.

NPC drops are no where near enough to cover the amount of demand there is from pos', t2 production and pos module production.

Edit - You might wanna look at other npc prices. Oxides are around 9k isk (still decreasing) uranium is 12k isk and decreasing slowly. But It would take a long time to drop below 5k (if they ever do). CE at 2k isk is a steal





3X Robotics = 10x Consumer electronics + 10X Mechanical parts

Guess where CE,MP and even Robotics drop! Razz

RAW23
Posted - 2010.07.16 07:44:00 - [224]
 

Originally by: Patri Andari
Once folks figure out where and when to attack an NPC convoy, the profits will know no ends!




I'm not sure that ganking convoys for half the hourly profit of running level 4s is going to be a particularly popular career path.

I must say, though, that I admire your stamina. You are working/posting really hard to try to depress prices with the slenderest backing for your "arguments". It obviously means a lot to you that prices go down. How many of each of these items are you hoping to pick up and what is your target price?

Grozen
Caldari
Titan Core
Posted - 2010.07.16 09:16:00 - [225]
 

Obv not a lot of ppl with logic in the thread.Currently i don't give rats ass what happens to my planet.Currently everything i produce is worth a jack **** of what i make when i make my $ with real good methods.So why would ccp bother screwing whats already screwed?

Whats the incentive people will have to take my ****ty planet which i don't care for?Or maybe they will boost exraction rates so that nobody in his right mind will produce goods that sell for 100k for 24hours work. Get your facts and sheets straight then come back.

Emnity Preston
Caldari
Norfolk and Good Aquisitions
Posted - 2010.07.16 09:28:00 - [226]
 

Who is to say the economy in Dust will operate on anything like the scales in eve itself?

If your colony cost 10mil to install and produces around 30mil per month (for example) that could be pretty minor space bucks, but pretty major mercenary soldier grunt bucks. Rifles, Grenades and tanks etc could be in the 100-25k boundary in dust itself and maybe a whole band could be hired for 1.5mil per hit etc. Until the scales are unleashed/revealed it will be hard to establish how exactly it integrates, but I'm definitely convinced we dont have the whole picture to speculate on.

As things stand right now, would people go through the hassle of denying people a few mil/month passive space bucks? Maybe not. Will there be decent reasons for hiring teenage twitch FPS players at all? More than likely or they wouldnt be developing an integrated game.


Maria Yumeno
Gallente
Posted - 2010.07.16 09:33:00 - [227]
 

Originally by: Patri Andari
Once folks figure out where and when to attack an NPC convoy, the profits will know no ends!

It used to be segregated by the products sold at each station, but that has changed. Now it seems each race carries a primary, secondary and tertiary PI product along with mass amounts of consumer goods.

I am still researching and I think I will keep the results private now as the returns seem to be hefty. I will say this though, The tertiary product of MANY Caldari corporations is Guidance Systems. Very Happy They drop pretty often.


Hmm... so you make a killing off NPC convoys and yet you post this information in order to get prices to drop?

Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2010.07.16 09:48:00 - [228]
 

Originally by: Emnity Preston
Who is to say the economy in Dust will operate on anything like the scales in eve itself?

If your colony cost 10mil to install and produces around 30mil per month (for example) that could be pretty minor space bucks, but pretty major mercenary soldier grunt bucks. Rifles, Grenades and tanks etc could be in the 100-25k boundary in dust itself and maybe a whole band could be hired for 1.5mil per hit etc. Until the scales are unleashed/revealed it will be hard to establish how exactly it integrates, but I'm definitely convinced we dont have the whole picture to speculate on.

Elite command center + several spaceports, etc, costs somewhat more than 10M and makes you more than 30mil per month unless you're extracting stuff in high-sec.

Besides 20M ~= $1 with current PLEX prices, so if a dust group did e.g. 10 x 2M hits they'd get free $1 micro-transaction to use for upgrades.

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.07.17 01:05:00 - [229]
 

Originally by: Patri Andari
Once folks figure out where and when to attack an NPC convoy, the profits will know no ends!

It used to be segregated by the products sold at each station, but that has changed. Now it seems each race carries a primary, secondary and tertiary PI product along with mass amounts of consumer goods.

I am still researching and I think I will keep the results private now as the returns seem to be hefty. I will say this though, The tertiary product of MANY Caldari corporations is Guidance Systems. Very Happy They drop pretty often.


for the future: this was a pretty good attempt but you're overselling it and the "it's a secret BUT LOOK HERE" thing is too transparent - you should have hinted at it and had a sockpuppet alt then reveal it

Patri Andari
Caldari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
Posted - 2010.07.17 03:57:00 - [230]
 

Originally by: Weaselior
Originally by: Patri Andari
Once folks figure out where and when to attack an NPC convoy, the profits will know no ends!

It used to be segregated by the products sold at each station, but that has changed. Now it seems each race carries a primary, secondary and tertiary PI product along with mass amounts of consumer goods.

I am still researching and I think I will keep the results private now as the returns seem to be hefty. I will say this though, The tertiary product of MANY Caldari corporations is Guidance Systems. Very Happy They drop pretty often.


for the future: this was a pretty good attempt but you're overselling it and the "it's a secret BUT LOOK HERE" thing is too transparent - you should have hinted at it and had a sockpuppet alt then reveal it


You're right. I suck at this propoganda thing. I could learn a lot from Goons. You guys recruiting?






Messoroz
AQUILA INC
Posted - 2010.07.17 04:08:00 - [231]
 

Edited by: Messoroz on 17/07/2010 04:09:10
Edited by: Messoroz on 17/07/2010 04:08:55
Originally by: RAW23
Originally by: Patri Andari
Once folks figure out where and when to attack an NPC convoy, the profits will know no ends!




I'm not sure that ganking convoys for half the hourly profit of running level 4s is going to be a particularly popular career path.

I must say, though, that I admire your stamina. You are working/posting really hard to try to depress prices with the slenderest backing for your "arguments". It obviously means a lot to you that prices go down. How many of each of these items are you hoping to pick up and what is your target price?


I make around 1 mil per convoy killed, I have a chain of stations and systems, lets say 3 stations on average in a system and 10 systems. That's 30 mil every hour. Only some breaks to dock up and drop goods but uh the ship doesn't need a tank when your skills up to par on ganking, just cargo expanders :D I am not an alt of the above loser(s)

Patri Andari
Caldari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
Posted - 2010.07.17 04:18:00 - [232]
 

Originally by: Messoroz
Edited by: Messoroz on 17/07/2010 04:09:10
Edited by: Messoroz on 17/07/2010 04:08:55
Originally by: RAW23
Originally by: Patri Andari
Once folks figure out where and when to attack an NPC convoy, the profits will know no ends!




I'm not sure that ganking convoys for half the hourly profit of running level 4s is going to be a particularly popular career path.

I must say, though, that I admire your stamina. You are working/posting really hard to try to depress prices with the slenderest backing for your "arguments". It obviously means a lot to you that prices go down. How many of each of these items are you hoping to pick up and what is your target price?


I make around 1 mil per convoy killed, I have a chain of stations and systems, lets say 3 stations on average in a system and 10 systems. That's 30 mil every hour. Only some breaks to dock up and drop goods but uh the ship doesn't need a tank when your skills up to par on ganking, just cargo expanders :D I am not an alt of the above loser(s)



Is this better Goon guy? Laughing



P.S. who are you calling a looser alt of mine! (roll with it son, i'll make it worth your while)








Cobalt Sixty
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2010.07.17 06:14:00 - [233]
 

Edited by: Cobalt Sixty on 17/07/2010 06:14:44
Originally by: RAW23
Originally by: Patri Andari
Once folks figure out where and when to attack an NPC convoy, the profits will know no ends!




I'm not sure that ganking convoys for half the hourly profit of running level 4s is going to be a particularly popular career path.

I must say, though, that I admire your stamina. You are working/posting really hard to try to depress prices with the slenderest backing for your "arguments". It obviously means a lot to you that prices go down. How many of each of these items are you hoping to pick up and what is your target price?

Since I first saw mention by this guy (Patri) of the convoys I've had a fairly new Alt with a Frigate and Hauler combo hitting Caldari and Amarr convoys in Caldari space to check the numbers.

I've seen nothing so far to indicate the success he hints at, but as I don't think I'm using the same equipment this isn't exactly a scientific study. Even so, certain reports do appear to have been wildly inflated.

I don't see these convoys as having any sort of real long term impact on PI but this is just my opinion. They do seem like a good alternative for new players who tired quickly of Level I missions and want something more interactive from PvE.

Dr Nefarius
Posted - 2010.07.17 07:14:00 - [234]
 

I've given the NPC haulers a go myself, and the profit levels are just pitiful. Highly unlikely people will pick it up as a means to make isk with current PI prices, perhaps if prices spike x3 (which I find unlikely).

There is however still planetary vehicles that will be affected by the drops from enemies abound (1000 units IIRC). It's a P3 with no other role then building P4 for POS production, so demand could possibly be completely met just by theese drops.




Carthus Sondale
Gallente
Power and Water
Posted - 2010.07.17 07:39:00 - [235]
 

I've been toying around with nuking NPC haulers for profit, and while it's true you can make a few million off it, L4 missions are still a lot less risky and more profitable. In the time it took me to find, locate, kill, and pick up loot (with a hauler alt) from the guys, I could've made enough cash to buy three times as much as I got.

ZeJesus
Posted - 2010.07.17 08:29:00 - [236]
 

Originally by: Dr Nefarius
I've given the NPC haulers a go myself, and the profit levels are just pitiful. Highly unlikely people will pick it up as a means to make isk with current PI prices, perhaps if prices spike x3 (which I find unlikely).

There is however still planetary vehicles that will be affected by the drops from enemies abound (1000 units IIRC). It's a P3 with no other role then building P4 for POS production, so demand could possibly be completely met just by theese drops.






Which could also lead to lower P2 demand ofc.

CE will be buried in a few weeks. We're looking at perhaps 1500 ISK / CE at best.


Thawed Corpse
Posted - 2010.07.17 08:41:00 - [237]
 

Okay, I just sold most all of my PI stuff.
The writing was on the wall.
I bought a lot from the npcs.
Then I started stockpiling P1s, P2s, and a bit of P3s, only to see the prices fall on everything. Every now and then something would rise in price, and then fall again two days later. It is pretty clear where everything is heading.

This will keep up until everyone heads for the exits, and people actually stop doing PI, since it is paying so little. Once that finally happens it will be time to buy again. That time is probably 2 months away.

Grozen
Caldari
Titan Core
Posted - 2010.07.17 08:58:00 - [238]
 

I do not agree that prices fell on everything providing just 2 examples:
1day ago gs-7k each buy orders coolant 7k each buy orders,
today gs 8.6, coolant 7.4
Daily bashing may lower prices a bit but longterm the daily5 and 20 avg are still trending up.

Synth Elleta
Posted - 2010.07.17 11:02:00 - [239]
 

Guidance systems are actually increasing in price again in Jita.

Most PI goods have hit their 20 day moving average and bounced off it, a bullish sign that the overall trend will continue.

The trend is your friend folks. Markets very rarely go straight up, just ride the waves to the top.

IceFyre S18
Zulu Labs
Zulu People
Posted - 2010.07.17 11:06:00 - [240]
 

BUY *** BUY *** BUY *** BUY *** BUY
One that got last in the train is jackass!
BUY BUUUUY BUY !!! Surprised


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