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Tochimo
Posted - 2010.06.29 09:42:00 - [1]
 

So I know everyone posts all over about how learning skills should be done away with. After 6 years, it seems pretty certain that it isn't going to happen.

Instead what I was thinking, and maybe this has come up before, was something along the lines of a new skill for the Learning skill set.

Call it "Neural Remapping Expertise" or something like that and have each level reduce the amount of time between Neural Remapping by 7.5% or 10% per level, depending on what would be deemed appropriate.

This might have people less angry at Learning skills since it would allow them to remap more often since "planning" a year of training is kind of asking a lot.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2010.06.29 10:44:00 - [2]
 

There's a reason that Neural Remapping was changed from once every six months to once every twelve months.

Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
Posted - 2010.06.29 12:43:00 - [3]
 

No... the introduction of another time sink learning skill that does not allow people to directly pewpew is not a good idea in my opinion!

suckitdonks
Posted - 2010.06.29 13:15:00 - [4]
 

I am actually getting sick of reading about people complaining about the learning skills. If CCP is smart they will need to add another tier to the Learning skills. Look at how long it would take to max all skills WITHOUT learning skills. CCP should know that no matter how popular this game is people are not going to be playing for over 2 decades. So either they will have to reduce remapping or add another tier. While some of you like to make specialized characters there are people like me who are completionists and would eventually like to see all their skills at 5 and not just see spatterings at 4 and 5.

Thelarian Prime
Posted - 2010.06.29 13:21:00 - [5]
 

I am not against this Idea myself but I would like to first see them have a skill that would allow the training que to go from 24 hrs at lvl 1 out to say 7 days at lvl v. this I think would be a good thing to help with setting up training plans sometimes.Laughing

Benco97
Gallente
Terraprobe Dynamics
Posted - 2010.06.29 13:26:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: suckitdonks
I am actually getting sick of reading about people complaining about the learning skills. If CCP is smart they will need to add another tier to the Learning skills. Look at how long it would take to max all skills WITHOUT learning skills. CCP should know that no matter how popular this game is people are not going to be playing for over 2 decades. So either they will have to reduce remapping or add another tier. While some of you like to make specialized characters there are people like me who are completionists and would eventually like to see all their skills at 5 and not just see spatterings at 4 and 5.


What if someone from CCP came and said that everyone having everything at 5 was not and is not in their image of the game? Would you leave?

Tochimo
Posted - 2010.07.02 21:53:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Gypsio III
There's a reason that Neural Remapping was changed from once every six months to once every twelve months.


When you say stuff like this, without an explanation, you might as well not say anything at all. Why did they change it? If you're so enlightened, please share?

Tochimo
Posted - 2010.07.02 22:00:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Rashmika Clavain
No... the introduction of another time sink learning skill that does not allow people to directly pewpew is not a good idea in my opinion!


Yes, because all EVE is about is "pew pew" and no does anything else but that.....

For someone who sits in a Hulk all day, max gunnery skills are a "time sink"
For someone who sits in a capital all day waiting for "pew pew", refining and mining skills are a "time sink"
And yet, it doesn't matter what kind of player you are, everyone benefits from a week or two of training learning skills no matter what they choose to do in game.

I think you should keep useless and narrow minded opinions to yourself.
Thanks :)

Bernard Schuyler
Posted - 2010.07.08 15:18:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Tochimo
Originally by: Rashmika Clavain
No... the introduction of another time sink learning skill that does not allow people to directly pewpew is not a good idea in my opinion!


Yes, because all EVE is about is "pew pew" and no does anything else but that.....

For someone who sits in a Hulk all day, max gunnery skills are a "time sink"
For someone who sits in a capital all day waiting for "pew pew", refining and mining skills are a "time sink"
And yet, it doesn't matter what kind of player you are, everyone benefits from a week or two of training learning skills no matter what they choose to do in game.

I think you should keep useless and narrow minded opinions to yourself.
Thanks :)


You miss the point Tochimo: Shooting Rats, shooting players, shooting rocks, manufacturing modules, manufacturing ships, running plexes, or virtually anything else you can think of in EVE can be the stand in for "Pew Pew" here. Stuff you do in game.

Skills take time, but those skills let you ultimately "pew pew" - be that fighting, industry or whatever.

Learning skills are entirely meta. They don't actually "do" anything in the game, they only effect another meta-game mechanic which is skill point accumulation speed. If they had ANY effect at all on ship fitting, performance, module use, etc. then they'd at least serve some play function.

They could add a Forum Poster skill in Eve where every level you have trained in it reduces the time limit between forum posts by 15% and it would be the same thing... An in game skill that has an entirely meta effect.

That being said, I personally don't care at this stage. The game is old enough that its just a part of the way it is, and arguing about whether it's good or bad design theory is academic.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2010.07.09 09:25:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Tochimo
Originally by: Gypsio III
There's a reason that Neural Remapping was changed from once every six months to once every twelve months.


When you say stuff like this, without an explanation, you might as well not say anything at all. Why did they change it? If you're so enlightened, please share?


It's fairly obvious. CCP thought that remapping every six months was too frequent. So they're not likely to change it back now, are they?

You're not supposed to plan a year of training. The neural remap is to allow you to fix mistakes made on character creation, and to allow career changes. It isn't there to allow you to max two characteristics and train flat out for six months. Obviously this is still doable for 12 months, but it's a lot trickier.

Unless, of course, your idea was to increase the neural remap timer to, say, 24 months, then introduce, say, a Rank 14 Charisma/Memory skill that reduces that 24 months by 10% per level?

Jennifer Fenring
Amarr
Posted - 2010.07.09 12:02:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Gypsio III
It's fairly obvious. CCP thought that remapping every six months was too frequent. So they're not likely to change it back now, are they?

You're not supposed to plan a year of training. The neural remap is to allow you to fix mistakes made on character creation, and to allow career changes. It isn't there to allow you to max two characteristics and train flat out for six months. Obviously this is still doable for 12 months, but it's a lot trickier.

I'm really sorry to hear that.

What's wrong with maxing two characteristics and train them flat out for six months I wonder?! And why is maxing two characteristics and train them flat out for twelve months ok? ugh

Shaemell Buttleson
Posted - 2010.07.09 13:11:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Jennifer Fenring
Originally by: Gypsio III
It's fairly obvious. CCP thought that remapping every six months was too frequent. So they're not likely to change it back now, are they?

You're not supposed to plan a year of training. The neural remap is to allow you to fix mistakes made on character creation, and to allow career changes. It isn't there to allow you to max two characteristics and train flat out for six months. Obviously this is still doable for 12 months, but it's a lot trickier.

I'm really sorry to hear that.

What's wrong with maxing two characteristics and train them flat out for six months I wonder?! And why is maxing two characteristics and train them flat out for twelve months ok? ugh


Why dont CCP scrap skills alltogether and just let us fly what we want when we want with whatever mods we want?Rolling Eyes


Bernard Schuyler
Posted - 2010.07.09 13:39:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Jennifer Fenring
Originally by: Gypsio III
It's fairly obvious. CCP thought that remapping every six months was too frequent. So they're not likely to change it back now, are they?

You're not supposed to plan a year of training. The neural remap is to allow you to fix mistakes made on character creation, and to allow career changes. It isn't there to allow you to max two characteristics and train flat out for six months. Obviously this is still doable for 12 months, but it's a lot trickier.

I'm really sorry to hear that.

What's wrong with maxing two characteristics and train them flat out for six months I wonder?! And why is maxing two characteristics and train them flat out for twelve months ok? ugh


There is nothing wrong with it. My personal feeling though is that EVEMON is a 3rd party app. CCP doesn't consider EVEMON's effects, or the general player mentality of trying maximize efficiency in their design philosophy. In other words, they expect us to train whatever skills we think we need right now, not to project a year in advance.

CCP's remaps are for things like "Wow I think I want to stop doing Industry for awhile and get into Trade, so let's see... I guess I need more CHA and less MEM..." Not what people actually do, which is probably more like "OK, according to EVEMON if I want to shave 78 days off of this 420 day skill plan, what I'll do is train these skills until next January, and then do a remap...."

Laughing

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2010.07.09 17:24:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Jennifer Fenring
Originally by: Gypsio III
It's fairly obvious. CCP thought that remapping every six months was too frequent. So they're not likely to change it back now, are they?

You're not supposed to plan a year of training. The neural remap is to allow you to fix mistakes made on character creation, and to allow career changes. It isn't there to allow you to max two characteristics and train flat out for six months. Obviously this is still doable for 12 months, but it's a lot trickier.

I'm really sorry to hear that.

What's wrong with maxing two characteristics and train them flat out for six months I wonder?! And why is maxing two characteristics and train them flat out for twelve months ok? ugh


CCP didn't intend neural remapping to simply be a fancy way of reducing skill training times. As for the six/twelve months thing, well, an old character like me can very easily make a six-month Int/Mem or Perc/Willp skill plan - but this would not only be "a fancy way of reducing skill training times", but would also be one that was barred to new characters because of their need to train a wide range of skills. As such, it would unfairly favour veterans and penalise new characters.

Of course, you can still do this with twelve months. Plenty of people do this, and I'm one of them. But twelve months is a long time to train, say, Int/Mem skills for, and I've found myself training skills simply because they're Int/Mem, rather than because that's what I actually want to train. Which suggests that I care more about a fairly meaningless SP number rather than actual combat abilities. Heh.

Bernard Schuyler
Posted - 2010.07.09 17:42:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Gypsio III

Which suggests that I care more about a fairly meaningless SP number rather than actual combat abilities. Heh.


Precisely! MMO players seem to have a pathological need for efficiency :-p I am going to wind up training all the Jump Skills to max before I can even pilot caps because I need to finish the INT/MEM stuff before I switch to PER Rolling Eyes

Lady Aja
Posted - 2010.07.10 07:32:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Tochimo
Originally by: Gypsio III
There's a reason that Neural Remapping was changed from once every six months to once every twelve months.


When you say stuff like this, without an explanation, you might as well not say anything at all. Why did they change it? If you're so enlightened, please share?


Tochimo when did you start playing?

they did it roughly 4 months b4 it was realeased m10 ( 2009 ) last year. Hell I would have abused the every 6 months option to the max.

no to decreasing the 12 month period in any form or manner.

Jennifer Fenring
Amarr
Posted - 2010.07.10 08:57:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Lady Aja
they did it roughly 4 months b4 it was realeased m10 ( 2009 ) last year. Hell I would have abused the every 6 months option to the max.

no to decreasing the 12 month period in any form or manner.


Abuse, how? The max skill training speed is still the same, it's not that you'll suddenly be able to train all existing skills within a few months, it may just reduce the time from 30 years to 25 years so nothing spectacular.
Basically it just increases your training speed with +/-25% compared to a balanced setup. Nothing to get upset about I'd think, why must people get so emotinal about this?


 

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