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blankseplocked PI Questions from a Non-Industry Player
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Posted - 2010.06.28 07:01:00 - [1]

o/ folks. As you may or may not know from my trolling, I don't do much in the way of industry. The closest thing I've ever done was harvesting salvage from missoins.

I've basically been looking at PI as a semi-passive income stream to assist in funding my stuff. There's a nice pocket of lowsec space that I'm reasonably certain isn't heavily populated. I'm not going to spam you all with mechanical questions that I could find with a few minutes of searching (though links to any guides on the subject would be pretty awesome), but I'm curious as to whether it's worth it.

How often would I have to be there to micromanage my planets? Is this something you can set going and show up once every 3-4 days or so, or does it require daily management? Exactly how much profit could I make from decently-managed lowsec/0.0 planets?

Louis deGuerre
Posted - 2010.06.28 07:46:00 - [2]

Louis's epic PI guide

- Every 96, 24 or 5 hours, or every 30 minutes, as you prefer. 15-30 minutes work after you got it set up.
- Nobody really knows as the market is crazy now, but in the order of tens of millions, not tens of billions.

Gavin DeVries
Posted - 2010.06.28 11:43:00 - [3]

If you can set up a planet that is completely self sufficient - that is, everything comes from that planet and is produced on that planet, with no required importing or exporting of materials - then you can set your extractors to a 24 hour cycle and just log on once a day to start them up again. You'd only need to go there to pick up product, and only when you need to. I have a couple of low sec planets doing this now, and I could pick up once every two weeks easily.

As to how much, well, it depends on the product. The market is wild on the PI stuff right now.

SOL Industries
Black Thorne Alliance
Posted - 2010.06.28 11:53:00 - [4]

As others posted, if you set up a planet that produces somethign you take to market, you only need to spend 2-3 minutes every day to keep your harvesters busy, a little more if you want more product per harvester, and once a week you drop by and pick up your stuff from the spaceport to take to market.

Ishina Fel
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.06.28 12:02:00 - [5]

You might notice that the base skill you train lets you scan planets from increasingly longer ranges, so you might think you need to be reasonably close to manage your planets while that skill isn't trained up.

However, it really only affects scanning. If you already built your colony, you can literally be on the other end of the universe (for example in W-space) and you can still look at and manage your colonies. The only thing you can't do is scan for resources.

Posted - 2010.06.28 13:08:00 - [6]

Edited by: HalfArse on 28/06/2010 13:08:42
iv only been doing it halfarsed (get it?) so far with 1 character running 5 low sec planets with improved cc's and spending about 20min a day maintaining them (which basically involves moving product to market).

I have made 100mill in the last week and I have totally changed my production lines several times so i hvant been very efficient.

When i get home form work today im going to dump my current planets and set up fresh on 10 0.0 planets with advanced cc's - in theory i should be able to bring in 800mill a month or more (unless markets take a dive), not bad for passive income

Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Posted - 2010.06.28 21:50:00 - [7]

Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 28/06/2010 21:50:30
If I can only check on them once every couple days (use 96 hour cycles), will my efficiency suffer much? Also, it was said that I can manage the planets from wherever I want. Do I have to go there to pull the materials off the planet, or can I do that with a hauler alt?

Cosmic Cakes
Posted - 2010.06.29 00:03:00 - [8]

Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 28/06/2010 21:50:30
If I can only check on them once every couple days (use 96 hour cycles), will my efficiency suffer much? Also, it was said that I can manage the planets from wherever I want. Do I have to go there to pull the materials off the planet, or can I do that with a hauler alt?

yes, the longer cycle you run, your efficiency suffers. it's a trade-off... to get maximum efficiency you need to run 30 minute extractions, resetting each individual extractor every 30 minutes.

i am pretty sure you can't use an alt. you can manage your planets and reset your extractors without being in the same system, but to launch goods into orbit for pickup, the owner of the CC needs to be in system and uncloaked.

Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Posted - 2010.06.29 00:08:00 - [9]

How much will efficiency suffer?

And once launched to orbit, can an alt pick it up? Could I just enter the system in a covops, do my stuff at a safespot, and then haul everything with an alt in a BR?

Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2010.06.29 00:14:00 - [10]

Edited by: Moleculor on 29/06/2010 00:15:49
You can not pick up with an alt. The only way you COULD pick up with an alt is if you used the (max 500m3) CC launches, flew there with your main, bookmarked the location, flew away, gave the bookmark to your alt, and then had your alt fly there.

And efficiency will suffer quite a bit. It varies from planet to planet, and even based on where you place your PINs, but on one planet I'm using (with incredibly low skills), a 5 hour cycle will produce more P0 materials than I can process in those five hours (usually gives me an additional hour or so of production) and a 24 hour cycle will end up with my factories sitting idle for about half of that 24 hour cycle. A four day cycle would be abysmal from a production standpoint.

PI is designed as something that you do WHILE you play the game, not while you're logged off. The four day cycles are mostly just there to provide an alternative for people who have to go away for a while and can't log in during that time. Or for the extremely lazy.

Gavin DeVries
Posted - 2010.06.29 00:25:00 - [11]

I find the 24 hour cycle to be the most efficient, really. All I have to do is restart the extractors once a day, everything else runs by itself. You need to understand a little of how it works to see why.

A basic industry facility (BIF) takes raw materials produced by extractors and turns it into processed materials (tier 1 product, usually abbreviated as P1). A BIF runs every 30 minutes, but takes 3000 raw materials to run a cycle. So, you need enough extractors to generate 3000 raw materials every 30 minutes to keep it going. If you set your extractors to the 96 hour cycle, they only harvest once every hour. So, in addition to bringing in a smaller amount per cycle, you'll only start running after an hour. Based on my observations so far, the per yield harvesting is highest on the 5 hour cycle but only slightly lower on the 24 hour cycle. On the 5 hour cycle you'll harvest every 15 minutes.

An advanced industry facility (AIF) runs once per hour, taking two (or sometimes three) processed materials and turning them into refined materials (P2 product). The AIF needs 40 of each P1 product, which is coincidentally exactly how much two BIF cycles produce. Thus, a fully efficient chain feeds raw materials into two or three BIFs, each making one P1 product, which route to an AIF that makes a P2 product. If you have enough raw materials to generate 3000 per half hour of each needed type, your AIF will keep running for 24 hours. It produces 5 units per hour, so this type of chain generates 120 units per day.

If you run the 5 hour cycles, you're extractors will be exhausted in 5 hours but will have harvested enough raw materials to probably run 12-15 hours of production. If you run 96 hour cycles you'll likely wind up making about 12 full processes a day, losing half your yield.

Posted - 2010.06.29 08:14:00 - [12]

Originally by: Kahega Amielden
How much will efficiency suffer?

Someone claimed in a post the rates were 28/100/280/500 for 96/23/5/0.5 hr and the couple of extractors I remembered to check that looked reasonable.

E.g. 5 hour extracts at 280% of the 23h

Posted - 2010.06.29 12:29:00 - [13]

Im at work so i dont have have the exact figures to hand but on my planets i run 24hr production and they produce 1500-1800 units every 30min.

The 96hr option reduces that to 1000 units every hour - quite a big loss

Gavin DeVries
Posted - 2010.06.30 01:11:00 - [14]

So, when I got home this evening and restarted my extractors, I wrote down these numbers. This is from a low-sec planet that doesn't have the greatest yield on the item in question:

Total Harvest _________ Per Cycle ________ Time per cycle______Time to depletion
____4806__________________801__________________5:00_________________30 minutes
___26420__________________1321_________________15:00________________5 hours
___43424__________________944__________________30:00________________24 hours
___50304__________________524__________________60:00________________96 hours

For this, you'd need 2 extractors to keep a BIF going if you ran the 5 hour depletion cycle, just over 3 on the 24 hour cycle, and 12(!) of them on the 96 hour cycle (since you're only harvesting every hour while the BIF is running every half hour, you need twice as much to keep it stocked). You'll also notice that on the 24 hour cycle, you pull in just over 86% of the total amount you'd get in 96 hours on the long cycle.

If you can log on twice a day, run the 5 hour cycle. If you can log on every day once, use the 24 hour cycle. If you can only be on every few days, I think I'd still run the 24 hour cycle, because if you can log on more than once in 4 days you get more from it.

Mordiss Nex
Posted - 2010.06.30 09:29:00 - [15]

To continue on Gavin's example.

Say you see hauling as the constraint you want to maximize, and look at it from a m3 perspective.

Assume the figures are rounded for the sake of simplicity and you use a launchpad for your end product (this will be less than a full LP when you route source material through it as well):

AIF produces 5 units of P2 every hour.
1 P2 = 1.5 m3 in volume.
So every hour 1 AIF outputs 7.5m3 of P2.

A launchpad can hold 10,000m3.
It will take 10,000m3 / 7.5m3/h = 1333.33 hours to fill a launchpad with P2 using 1 AIF.

That is 1,333 / 24 = 55 days.

Figures are off the top of my head so correct me if I'm wrong.

Cyprus Black
Posted - 2010.06.30 15:33:00 - [16]

Edited by: Cyprus Black on 30/06/2010 15:53:15
I don't know about you guys, but I'm making great money off PI. I can use the Advanced CC and have five of them out at the same time.

Two CCs are strictly and efficiently dedicated to extracting and processing one type of raw material. Two others are also dedicated to extracting another type of material. My last CC extracts nothing. It's sole purpose is to advance process the materials from the other four planets. One spaceport, two storage facilities, and twenty advanced processors.

I won't tell you what I'm producing, but my current cashflow is as follows (assuming Jita prices remain constant):

2.5 million per hour
60 million per day (assuming a 24 hour day instead of a 23)
420 million per week
1.86 billion per 31 day month

Of course, I need to keep an eye on that fifth planet and make sure it's fed at all times. And yes this is out in null.

Posted - 2010.06.30 16:04:00 - [17]

The best way to do PI is partially AFK:
you do it with EVE in background and every half hour you restart the extractors (an alarm clock is useful).
You fill up the storage or, better, the spaceport (that consume the same power as the storage) and hold double volume of goods. Then you can go AFK or log off and leave the industrial facilities do their dirty job (and put a 5 or 23 hour cycle for the extractors).


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