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Kel Nissa
Posted - 2010.06.27 12:04:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing
Originally by: Kel Nissa

More like someone who has to constantly deal with the effects of people with fully patched and updated xp instalsl getting infected and me having to fix the damned thing. THen me giving them the speech "XP is not viable anymore".



Seems like a small missunderstanding. Windows XP is not the reason for their infection. Their pc would be also infected if they use vista or 7.

45thtiger 0109
Posted - 2010.06.27 16:22:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Kel Nissa
Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing
Originally by: Kel Nissa

More like someone who has to constantly deal with the effects of people with fully patched and updated xp instalsl getting infected and me having to fix the damned thing. THen me giving them the speech "XP is not viable anymore".



Seems like a small missunderstanding. Windows XP is not the reason for their infection. Their pc would be also infected if they use vista or 7.


Unless they use windows 7 64bit which hardly gets infected.

To add to this when will CCP introduce a 64bit of the eve client for windows 7 64 ?




StealthRambo Lemmington
Posted - 2010.06.27 16:48:00 - [63]
 

Again Tiger very good point, XP is a very robust OS which everyone has fallen in love with, but the problem is not in the OS itself but with 32bit computing in general which is a thing of yester year, The way to go now is x64, windows released xp pro x64 which had horrible drive support, then we have vista and now 7 x64 the main problem is the system agriculture of x86 (32-bit) espicaly xp which gets infected very easy by malware/adware, which people often confuse with viruses. another thing is none being fully patched or useing the free stuff avaible to them like Windows Defender which is built into vitsa and 7. In all honesty if your thinking of upgrading your computer, if your CPU and system supports x64 don't be afraid to do it. I'm saying this because x86 (32-bit) Is not going to be support under the nex generation of windows or "Windows 8".

NOTE: PLEASE READ THE WHOLE POST ITS EARLIER AND I JUST WOKE UP SO GRAMMER AND SPELLING IS NOT BEST RIGHT NOW THANK YOU AND PLEASE NO FLAMING BUT FEEL FREE TO ADD TO THE DISCUSSION

Aldarica
Spinal Discipline
Posted - 2010.06.27 16:56:00 - [64]
 

Edited by: Aldarica on 27/06/2010 16:59:12
Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing
More like someone who has to constantly deal with the effects of people with fully patched and updated xp instalsl getting infected and me having to fix the damned thing. THen me giving them the speech "XP is not viable anymore".


Fools will stay fools no matter what OS they decide to use. I will migrate to W7 once I'm forced to, until then I'm not fixing something that works.

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2010.06.27 17:20:00 - [65]
 

Edited by: dexington on 27/06/2010 19:13:41
Originally by: StealthRambo Lemmington
Again Tiger very good point, XP is a very robust OS which everyone has fallen in love with, but the problem is not in the OS itself but with 32bit computing in general which is a thing of yester year, The way to go now is x64, windows released xp pro x64 which had horrible drive support, then we have vista and now 7 x64 the main problem is the system agriculture of x86 (32-bit) espicaly xp which gets infected very easy by malware/adware, which people often confuse with viruses.


Another thing is that 64 bit processors are not more secure then 32 bit processors, running the same software on 32 and 64 bit processors would leave both systems equally vulnerable to exploits. If one system is more secure, it's because of the software and/or OS.

Originally by: StealthRambo Lemmington
another thing is none being fully patched or useing the free stuff avaible to them like Windows Defender which is built into vitsa and 7. In all honesty if your thinking of upgrading your computer, if your CPU and system supports x64 don't be afraid to do it. I'm saying this because x86 (32-bit) Is not going to be support under the nex generation of windows or "Windows 8".

NOTE: PLEASE READ THE WHOLE POST ITS EARLIER AND I JUST WOKE UP SO GRAMMER AND SPELLING IS NOT BEST RIGHT NOW THANK YOU AND PLEASE NO FLAMING BUT FEEL FREE TO ADD TO THE DISCUSSION


Both windows xp, vista and windows 7 in both 32 and 64 bit version are all x86 code, and x86 is going to be supported by windows "forever".

Windows defender and microsoft security essentials are also available to windows xp users.

AterraX
Caldari
Posted - 2010.06.27 18:26:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: dexington
Originally by: AterraX
Perhap you should read the thread next time before posting...look out for words like "fallback" and "backward" Rolling Eyes


Perhap you should read the thread next time before posting...look out for words like "mac" and "linux" Rolling Eyes


I am still waiting for you to post something besides FUD and show me factual errors in what I have said.

0/10

StealthRambo Lemmington
Posted - 2010.06.28 01:33:00 - [67]
 

Edited by: StealthRambo Lemmington on 28/06/2010 01:47:35
Edited by: StealthRambo Lemmington on 28/06/2010 01:34:16
Originally by: dexington
Edited by: dexington on 27/06/2010 19:13:41
Originally by: StealthRambo Lemmington
Again Tiger very good point, XP is a very robust OS which everyone has fallen in love with, but the problem is not in the OS itself but with 32bit computing in general which is a thing of yester year, The way to go now is x64, windows released xp pro x64 which had horrible drive support, then we have vista and now 7 x64 the main problem is the system agriculture of x86 (32-bit) espicaly xp which gets infected very easy by malware/adware, which people often confuse with viruses.


Another thing is that 64 bit processors are not more secure then 32 bit processors, running the same software on 32 and 64 bit processors would leave both systems equally vulnerable to exploits. If one system is more secure, it's because of the software and/or OS.

Originally by: StealthRambo Lemmington
another thing is none being fully patched or useing the free stuff avaible to them like Windows Defender which is built into vitsa and 7. In all honesty if your thinking of upgrading your computer, if your CPU and system supports x64 don't be afraid to do it. I'm saying this because x86 (32-bit) Is not going to be support under the nex generation of windows or "Windows 8".

NOTE: PLEASE READ THE WHOLE POST ITS EARLIER AND I JUST WOKE UP SO GRAMMER AND SPELLING IS NOT BEST RIGHT NOW THANK YOU AND PLEASE NO FLAMING BUT FEEL FREE TO ADD TO THE DISCUSSION


Both windows xp, vista and windows 7 in both 32 and 64 bit version are all x86 code, and x86 is going to be supported by windows "forever".

Windows defender and microsoft security essentials are also available to windows xp users.


Correction it is not based around 32-bit code x64 is built on 64-bit codeing with internal support for 32bit application. and windows 8 will be 64bit based code with internal support for 32bit applications. if you put computer side by side running the same os E.g. Vista one x86 and one x64 and infected them with the same virius, not malware or adware, but a virius designed for that OS you will see that 9 chances outta 10 the x64 bit os will be untouched. spyware and addware on the other hand well they are nothing more then applications, and cookies which no one is safe from.

Also I should expand alittle more on what i said x86-64 is an extension of the x86 instruction set. It supports vastly larger virtual and physical address spaces than are possible on x86, thereby allowing programmers to conveniently work with much larger data sets. x86-64 also provides 64-bit general purpose registers and numerous other enhancements, so intern you are by means wrong dexington but you are not right either. and my test under vista with a x86 virus proves my point.

Gromilia
Posted - 2010.06.28 01:44:00 - [68]
 

Edited by: Gromilia on 28/06/2010 01:47:16
Originally by: StealthRambo Lemmington
Edited by: StealthRambo Lemmington on 28/06/2010 01:34:16
Originally by: dexington
Edited by: dexington on 27/06/2010 19:13:41
Originally by: StealthRambo Lemmington
Again Tiger very good point, XP is a very robust OS which everyone has fallen in love with, but the problem is not in the OS itself but with 32bit computing in general which is a thing of yester year, The way to go now is x64, windows released xp pro x64 which had horrible drive support, then we have vista and now 7 x64 the main problem is the system agriculture of x86 (32-bit) espicaly xp which gets infected very easy by malware/adware, which people often confuse with viruses.



Another thing is that 64 bit processors are not more secure then 32 bit processors, running the same software on 32 and 64 bit processors would leave both systems equally vulnerable to exploits. If one system is more secure, it's because of the software and/or OS.

Originally by: StealthRambo Lemmington
another thing is none being fully patched or useing the free stuff avaible to them like Windows Defender which is built into vitsa and 7. In all honesty if your thinking of upgrading your computer, if your CPU and system supports x64 don't be afraid to do it. I'm saying this because x86 (32-bit) Is not going to be support under the nex generation of windows or "Windows 8".

NOTE: PLEASE READ THE WHOLE POST ITS EARLIER AND I JUST WOKE UP SO GRAMMER AND SPELLING IS NOT BEST RIGHT NOW THANK YOU AND PLEASE NO FLAMING BUT FEEL FREE TO ADD TO THE DISCUSSION


Both windows xp, vista and windows 7 in both 32 and 64 bit version are all x86 code, and x86 is going to be supported by windows "forever".

Windows defender and microsoft security essentials are also available to windows xp users.


Correction it is not based around 32-bit code x64 is built on 64-bit codeing with internal support for 32bit application. and windows 8 will be 64bit based code with internal support for 32bit applications. if you put computer side by side running the same os E.g. Vista one x86 and one x64 and infected them with the same virius, not malware or adware, but a virius designed for that OS you will see that 9 chances outta 10 the x64 bit os will be untouched. spyware and addware on the other hand well they are nothing more then applications, and cookies which no one is safe from


Well said Stealth.
Guys here is a link for more info about 32bit and 64bit please read it thanks.
X86-64

StealthRambo
Gallente
Ferrius Vigalans Razoris
Posted - 2010.06.28 02:08:00 - [69]
 

Edited by: StealthRambo on 28/06/2010 02:10:55
Anyway guys time to get back on topic with directx 10 and 11 adn the big question compatiblity:

Various releases of Windows have included and supported various versions of DirectX, allowing newer versions of the operating system to continue running applications designed for earlier versions of DirectX until those versions can be gradually phased out in favor of newer APIs, drivers, and hardware.

APIs such as Direct3D and DirectSound need to interact with hardware, and they do this through a device driver. Hardware manufacturers have to write these drivers for a particular DirectX version's device driver interface (or DDI), and test each individual piece of hardware to make them DirectX compatible. Some hardware devices only have DirectX compatible drivers (in other words, one must install DirectX in order to use that hardware). Early versions of DirectX included an up-to-date library of all of the DirectX compatible drivers currently available. This practice was stopped however, in favor of the web-based Windows Update driver-update system, which allowed users to download only the drivers relevant to their hardware, rather than the entire library.

Prior to DirectX 10, DirectX runtime was designed to be backward compatible with older drivers, meaning that newer versions of the APIs were designed to interoperate with older drivers written against a previous version's DDI. The application programmer had to query the available hardware capabilities using a complex system of "cap bits" each tied to a particular hardware feature. For example, a game designed for and running on Direct3D 9 with a graphics adapter driver designed for Direct3D 6 would still work, albeit most likely with degraded functionality.

However, the Direct3D 10 runtime in Windows Vista cannot run on older hardware drivers due to the significantly updated DDI, which requires a unified feature set and abandons the use of "cap bits".

Direct3D 11 runtime introduces Direct3D 9, 10, and 10.1 "feature levels", compatibility modes which only allow the use of hardware features defined in the specified version of Direct3D. For Direct3D 9 hardware, there are three different feature levels, grouped by common capabilities of "low", "med" and "high-end" video cards; the runtime directly uses Direct3D 9 DDI provided in all WDDM drivers.

In short if your system is only directx9.0c compatiable you can still run eve if they code directx 11.0 into it, and if i'm not mistaken no one that plays eve is running hardware that doesn't atleast support direct-x 9.0c the only thing is they would not gain from the features of direct 11 which if you rnning a minmal of direct-x 9.0 hardware complint Graphics card and windows vista you can run direct-x 11 10.1. and 10 games with out the extra features but for those us with the compatiable hardware it would be nice to see what CCP could do with a mixture of a x64 bit client and direct x 11, or at least direct x 11

45thtiger 0109
Posted - 2010.06.28 03:34:00 - [70]
 

Edited by: 45thtiger 0109 on 28/06/2010 03:36:59
As stealth has posted DX 11 will be the next what i think is the next phase of EVE online to be updated.

With windows 7 64bit and DX11 CCP Could then have the graphic side of eve online would be alot better than using DX9.

Incarna when it comes out hopefully CCP would use either DX10 or DX11 to stay with the times.

But have backwards compatibility to DX9c.

On a final note thanks all who have posted for the feedback and thanks to CCP for your support in this thread.

I hope this Gives CCP something to look at in the near future regarding DX10 or DX11.

If the EVE Communinity still wants to comment please do so.

Regards From 45thtiger 0109

45thtiger 0109
Posted - 2010.07.04 15:38:00 - [71]
 

Just to add another thing to this post.

I hope CCP dose introduce DX 11 to Incarna that has backwards compatibility
to DX 10 or even if windows XP is still supported to DX 9c.


Thats all thanks guys

Ressiv
Massive PVPness
Posted - 2010.07.04 17:19:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing
Edited by: TheLordofAllandNothing on 26/06/2010 08:23:22
People who are still using xp are idiots, true story. More exploitable holes than a cheap hooker(business users sort of have an excuse)


That's quite a bold statement, and untrue as well ugh

Microsoft is still releasing patches for XP to start with. XP can be secured pretty good, if you have half a clue and know how to use google (correctly). Ever heard about firewalls and IDS's ?

The one thing I will grant you is that people who know nothing about computers and security are better off with Win7, but everybody that has a good working knowledge on MS will get XP just as secure in a very small amount of time and the added bonus is you get more bang for your cpu cycles.

Besides, security in Win7 is still a joke, just a lil harder on the script kiddies (for now)

Personaly, I'm not gonna switch to any newer version of windows as long as I can put it off without compromising security or useability. Neither is going to happen soon.

On topic: please no! Let it mature, drop in price and then look again. With all the bugs still needing to get fixed I don't think it would be a smart move to introduce new ones.

AterraX
Caldari
Posted - 2010.07.04 17:27:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Ressiv
Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing
Edited by: TheLordofAllandNothing on 26/06/2010 08:23:22
People who are still using xp are idiots, true story. More exploitable holes than a cheap hooker(business users sort of have an excuse)


That's quite a bold statement, and untrue as well ugh

Microsoft is still releasing patches for XP to start with. XP can be secured pretty good, if you have half a clue and know how to use google (correctly). Ever heard about firewalls and IDS's ?

The one thing I will grant you is that people who know nothing about computers and security are better off with Win7, but everybody that has a good working knowledge on MS will get XP just as secure in a very small amount of time and the added bonus is you get more bang for your cpu cycles.

Besides, security in Win7 is still a joke, just a lil harder on the script kiddies (for now)

Personaly, I'm not gonna switch to any newer version of windows as long as I can put it off without compromising security or useability. Neither is going to happen soon.

On topic: please no! Let it mature, drop in price and then look again. With all the bugs still needing to get fixed I don't think it would be a smart move to introduce new ones.



You are ****ting me right?
"sandbox" vs admin user...and you compare the two? *ROFL*

Hell even SP1 for Win7 is going to be nothing more than a combined update-patch.

XP is a POS and should die...and it will soon...XP SP3 is getting awfull close to it's EOL date.

Ressiv
Massive PVPness
Posted - 2010.07.04 17:34:00 - [74]
 

Edited by: Ressiv on 04/07/2010 17:38:28
Originally by: AterraX


You are ****ting me right?
"sandbox" vs admin user...and you compare the two? *ROFL*




Maybe read twice before replying ... I was reacting on the statement that ppl still using XP are idiots and that XP is insecure. I also stated that ppl with no knowledge on computers / MS are better off with Win7.

I merely pointed out that the statement I reacted on was untrue for a vast majority of the EVE playerbase ... or are you gonna tell me that EVE is mostly played by people with no clue about PC's ? Laughing

*edit: Even the sanbox user you refer to is able to secure XP btw .. there's nice guides out there in dummy format. Takes a tad longer then tho. It all revolves about the user's self responsability: Is it a luser (I expect it to work and dont wanna know anything about it.) or is it a user (I expect it to work, but just in case I make sure I know my tools.)

45thtiger 0109
Posted - 2010.07.06 16:03:00 - [75]
 

Both of you two are right windows xp will soon die out.

I feel sorry for people who has windows xp.

Why not goto windows 7 like i did.

I went from xp missed vista and did a fresh install of win 7 and i say i have done the best thing for my computer no more blue screens yay.

Oh crap blue screen not!! only joking.

If CCP likes windows 7 it must be good Very Happy

Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari
Emminent Terraforming
O.G.-Alliance
Posted - 2010.07.06 18:09:00 - [76]
 

i dont really see the gain to be had from DX10 or DX11 for an MMORPG. lower system requirements allows more customers. FPSs push limits because well that is what they do.

Andreya
Red Federation
Posted - 2010.07.08 10:44:00 - [77]
 

3D eve yes please!
im getting exciting just thinking of staring at little 3D icons floating around in this vast black ocean of nothingness (sarcasm)
on a positive note, as much as i never actually 'see' the objects in space around me cause im zoomed out 99% of the time. it still would be damn cool!

Tolis Irithel
Northstar Cabal
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2010.07.08 11:33:00 - [78]
 

Ack, I hope XP doesn't die too soon, or I won't be able to get my upgrading done in time. Sadly, attempts to upgrade to Windows 7 so far (I have the discs, I try about once every 2 months to see if they've made it worthwhile yet) all just lead to lower performance across the board.

Now, if MS/resellers could bring out a version of Win7 without the 95%+ of it that's a complete waste of install time/processor/memory/patience, maybe then I'll leave it on.

45thtiger 0109
Posted - 2010.07.08 13:58:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Tolis Irithel
Ack, I hope XP doesn't die too soon, or I won't be able to get my upgrading done in time. Sadly, attempts to upgrade to Windows 7 so far (I have the discs, I try about once every 2 months to see if they've made it worthwhile yet) all just lead to lower performance across the board.

Now, if MS/resellers could bring out a version of Win7 without the 95%+ of it that's a complete waste of install time/processor/memory/patience, maybe then I'll leave it on.



By the end of this year windows 7 will be getting a service pack 1 if i am correct.

Which will hopefully fix allot of problems with win 7.

Can someone correct me if this is true or not please.

brutoid
Caldari
Posted - 2010.07.08 15:29:00 - [80]
 

Not sure if this has been posted yet but........

DX11 coming to WoW

So then, looks like steam surveys won't be needed as justification soon perhaps?

RC1136 Darman
Posted - 2010.07.08 19:32:00 - [81]
 

I support a move to DX10. Not 11 (yet). 3D is overrated.

On a technical side, Id also support a dual x86,x64 client.

45thtiger 0109
Posted - 2010.07.16 15:12:00 - [82]
 

On the horizon
Destiny
Major improvements to cleanup of client balls (objects in space)
Less performance hit spikes
More reliable cleanup
Out with old, in with the new
Revamping of the old CPU-bound systems (such as clouds and explosions)
New faster 3D math library, geo2, on the horizon
UI changes
Speed up refreshing of overview
Further improvements on overview, fleet window and brackets when player joins/leaves a fleet
Some of these changes were tested on Tuesday (22 June 2010) in a rather smooth mass test and will be included in Tyrannis 1.0.2

Dose this mean that eve online is going 3d, if so people go and get your 3d glasses Very HappyRazz.

StealthRambo
Gallente
Ferrius Vigalans Razoris
Posted - 2010.07.16 16:38:00 - [83]
 

Looks to me like a revamp of the engine is coming and for as far as moving to direct-x 10 and not 11 would be a waste of time and resouces, when as i mention before, direct-x 11, supports direct-x 9 gpu's. so having resaid that.

Most games and apps now come in 2 flavors such as Office 2010, both installation are on one dvd when inserted into system it will check to see if your system is running a x86 or x64 OS, and then install accordingly

Flesh Slurper
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.07.16 17:15:00 - [84]
 

Linux Forever!

Sky Marshal
IMpAct Corp
Not Found.
Posted - 2010.07.21 17:11:00 - [85]
 

Edited by: Sky Marshal on 21/07/2010 17:14:24

Originally by: AterraX
Direct3D 11 runtime introduces Direct3D 9, 10, and 10.1 "feature levels", compatibility modes which only allow the use of hardware features defined in the specified version of Direct3D. For Direct3D 9 hardware, there are three different feature levels, grouped by common capabilities of "low", "med" and "high-end" video cards; the runtime directly uses Direct3D 9 DDI provided in all WDDM drivers.

Like I said...you REALLY need to read up...even Wikipedia would be able to educate you on this topic.

More fail you want to post?!


What Wikipedia means, is that on a system with DirectX 11, you can use DirectX 9-Only or 10-Only HARDWARE to launch a DirectX 11 application.

It never meaned that you can use a DirectX 11 software on a DirectX 9-Only SYSTEM, like XP.

So we return to the first post of yours :

Originally by: AterraX
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 26/06/2010 07:53:15
and drop the subscriptions of everyone who didnt bother with win7?
Sounds like a good plan.

Also, eve works in 3d right now, via nvidia's 3d glasses or others also. Has zero to do with DirectX versions...


You REALLY need to read up.

Coding in DX11 has the benefit of an automatic fallback path to DX10.1, DX10 or DX9.

That manes you don't need to code for several API's, but can code for just one (DX11) and the compiler will make fallback codepaths for lesser version of DX11.


In all cases it needs Windows 7 or Vista with DX11. It is just less hardware-limited, as DX11 has a kind of "wrapper".

So I don't know what I can say, honestly, after reading your other posts... Terminal Insanity is right, but you are not.

So to return to the OP post, it is not the good moment, apart if CCP want drop the subscriptions.

brutoid
Caldari
Posted - 2010.07.31 02:41:00 - [86]
 

Having read through this thread again and this time taking into account the steam hardware survey (which i don't like to, but still) it starts to become more and more obvious that the people on XP with DX9.0c gpus are now definately in the minority.

We have established that for the fallback features of DX11 to be useable by everyone with a DX9 gpu and up, that Vista or Win 7 is needed. According to steam surveys the number that use these OS's is currently at over 56%, with Win 7 64bit (as of now) just a few percent behind XP. If we take this as a pc gamers 'guideline' and apply it to EvE, it suddenly makes a great case for splitting the client again, a new client that currently over 56% of us can use immediately with the only upgrade neccessary for the other 44% being an OS upgrade rather than a hardware one. Of course these figures could be wrong but its the easiest data of this kind we can use that applies directly to gamers and the debate in this thread.

Work on the more important fixes\tweaks\mechanics would apply to both clients (just as it did before) until the old client is phased out, just like the OS that it would support. All new graphical enhancements etc can be applied to the new client using one API (DX11) that can be used by the last 3 DX generations of cards so no one gets left out, they just dont get all the goodies until they can afford a hardware upgrade at a time thats right for them financially.

I don't expect anyone to care. Also stuff. Also many things. Gheys.

Lemmy Kravitz
Minmatar
Rebirth.
Posted - 2010.07.31 22:33:00 - [87]
 

How about dual monitor support first before stupid 3D TV!?

cilayin
Amarr
Ore Hogz
Posted - 2010.08.01 01:57:00 - [88]
 

YES YES YES! DX10/11 would be amazing! :)

45thtiger 0109
Posted - 2010.08.01 04:39:00 - [89]
 

Hey Guys

On the 3D side of things if the eve communinity get 3D TV`s & Monitors here is a link i found from NVIDIA which games are NVision 3D ready.

NVision 3D Ready Games

As you see EVE Online is in the Fair area of that site.

Its Time CCP to make Eve Online 3D ready.

Regards From 45thtiger 0109

quave
Caldari
Agent-Orange
Posted - 2010.08.01 06:03:00 - [90]
 

As much as i would like to see EVE running on DX11, in 3d etc, I'd be happy if we just had working in-game Anti Aliasing.


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