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Surrah
Supra Tenetur
Posted - 2010.06.26 23:47:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Preden
Originally by: Surrah
Preden, they are occupying a Jovian station. Claiming it even. With no Jovian response, there is only one assumption that can be made; the Jovians and Nation are working together. You should anticipate finding that the Angel Cartel is among their ranks as well. Don't let attacks from that sector come as a surprise.


Surrah, whilst they may be claiming that station, it does not rule out the possibility that Jovian space may have been invaded. Possibly with this wormhole generation technology we have seen them use. The Nation may have entered Jovian space the same way they been entering ours, and caught the Jovians by surprise.

I believe to hastily declare the Jovians enemies could hinder our situation as opposed to help it.


I think had the Jove lost a station, especially to Nation, they would have taken to the diplomatic channels saying such. Especially since it has gone public and they cannot now hide it.

I believe the Jove, if not in control of, are working very closely with the Nation, the Angel Cartel, and CONCORD. All of the connections would naturally be secret, and thus hard to ferret out. But there is evidence about.

Veron Daerth
Amarr
Blood Meridian
Posted - 2010.06.26 23:52:00 - [62]
 

<Veron Daerth sighs> Pilot Axemaster. 60m/s is the maximum rated speed of a stock Avatar class titan available to pilots such as ourselves. Open your Neo-Com and check the ships stats in the market if you dont believe me. Obviously, the skills of the pilot would modify that speed, and gravity would play a role as well as friction as it entered atmosphere and other factors as well. However, using the base velocity of .06 km/s (60m/s) of the stock Avatar (the titan class shown in the video feed) and plugging that number into the calculator I provided a Gal-Net link to, and using the maximum values selectable for that calculator (much lower than the titan, BTW), you arrive at the number I gave you. Check for yourself if you dont believe me. Since the maximum selectable values (except for speed) for the calculator are well below those of the Titan in question, we can assume that the numbers I gave you were actually a magnitude or more LOWER than the actual results would be for said hypothetical impact.

Also, energy released from a kinetic impact is a function of mass and closing velocity of the objects in question. Assuming the titan was inside the orbital path of the planet itself, the planets orbital velocity would also have to be factored in. All of these factors add up to one thing. A big, life ending explosion. Keep in mind also that our ships use antimatter for propulsive purposes, and are filled with many other things to do not react well to explosions and damage. Ammunition and weapons warheads spring to mind. Agreed, beside the titanic energy release of the kinetic impact alone, they are largely meaningless, but they are also there as well.

All of this goes toward illustrating my point, if the titan/mothership hits, its all over but the crying of the offplanet relatives. Your disbelief is simple foolishness, since I have provided you with the tools to educate yourself as to the maths involved. Just because you "think" the numbers "seem" low/slow/silly doesnt mean the universe isnt going to go on doing those low/slow/silly things just because you dont believe in them. Also, I didnt create the calculator to which I linked you, far more educated and knowledgeable men whose purview of study is astronomical studies did, and frankly, I trust their degree's over your "ludicrous disbelief" in their results.

Vereesa
Gallente
THORN Syndicate
THORN Alliance
Posted - 2010.06.26 23:54:00 - [63]
 

Capsuleers alone should be able to deal with this threat. I personally have fought in actions where at least fifteen titans and hundreds of capital ships were deployed, which puts this fleet to shame.

furthermore, pirate vessels are generally of a poorer construction and fit less capable equipment than equivilent capsuleer vessels, so I would assume my dreadnought is capable of engaging and destroying multiple pirate dreadnoughts simultaneously.

However, a coherent fleet of a size to crush this would require a number of large alliances working together, which would be unlikely just to fight Sansha. Capsuleers have much larger problems to worry about- chiefley other capsuleers.

James Vayne
Posted - 2010.06.26 23:59:00 - [64]
 

Edited by: James Vayne on 27/06/2010 00:07:04
Originally by: Surrah
Preden, they are occupying a Jovian station. Claiming it even. With no Jovian response, there is only one assumption that can be made; the Jovians and Nation are working together. You should anticipate finding that the Angel Cartel is among their ranks as well. Don't let attacks from that sector come as a surprise.


While not to be dismissed. I find it difficult to believe that the Nation somehow managed to acquire this station from the Jovians, who are not in the habit of allowing their somewhat superior technology to fall into the hands of the likes of pirates. I concur with your assessment. The Jove need to come forward and explain themselves.

It also begs the question that if the Nation is building a fleet, are the Jove? I don't think we could stop a joint jove/Nation incursion to Empire space.

As for the Nation amassing forces? I can't speak for the Red Federation or Blue Republic of which I am part of. But they love a good fight *grins*.

neuroticdax
Caldari
Volition Cult
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.06.27 00:01:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Vereesa
Capsuleers alone should be able to deal with this threat. I personally have fought in actions where at least fifteen titans and hundreds of capital ships were deployed, which puts this fleet to shame.

furthermore, pirate vessels are generally of a poorer construction and fit less capable equipment than equivilent capsuleer vessels, so I would assume my dreadnought is capable of engaging and destroying multiple pirate dreadnoughts simultaneously.

However, a coherent fleet of a size to crush this would require a number of large alliances working together, which would be unlikely just to fight Sansha. Capsuleers have much larger problems to worry about- chiefley other capsuleers.


the problem with that is though the jovian station may not be much of a threat to us directly the tech that could be containd may border on devistating perhaps they have acess to the same tech that jamyl's abbadon was fitted with...do you want to take your capital vessel into that?

Surrah
Supra Tenetur
Posted - 2010.06.27 00:10:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: James Vayne
Originally by: Surrah
Preden, they are occupying a Jovian station. Claiming it even. With no Jovian response, there is only one assumption that can be made; the Jovians and Nation are working together. You should anticipate finding that the Angel Cartel is among their ranks as well. Don't let attacks from that sector come as a surprise.


While not to be dismissed. I find it difficult to believe that the Nation somehow managed to acquire this station from the Jovians, who are not in the habit of allowing their somewhat superior technology to fall into the hands of the likes of pirates. I concur with your assessment. The Jove need to come forward and explain themselves.

As for the Nation amassing forces? I can't speak for the Red Federation or Blue Republic of which I am part of. But they love a good fight *grins*.


You see, the Jovians do let their technology out every once in a while. They helped Sansha start his nation way back. They helped the Angel Cartel get going. Those are the only two groups that have ships that don't mesh with the standard empire hulls. Both are based on Jovian technology. And the Jove helped found the be all end all superior fighting force of our universe, CONCORD. CONCORD's ships can nullify even capsuleer ships with minimal effort, and seem to be in limitless supply.

Eyes need to open. Its getting dark. Hard times are upon us.

James Vayne
Posted - 2010.06.27 00:13:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Surrah
Originally by: James Vayne
Originally by: Surrah
Preden, they are occupying a Jovian station. Claiming it even. With no Jovian response, there is only one assumption that can be made; the Jovians and Nation are working together. You should anticipate finding that the Angel Cartel is among their ranks as well. Don't let attacks from that sector come as a surprise.


While not to be dismissed. I find it difficult to believe that the Nation somehow managed to acquire this station from the Jovians, who are not in the habit of allowing their somewhat superior technology to fall into the hands of the likes of pirates. I concur with your assessment. The Jove need to come forward and explain themselves.

As for the Nation amassing forces? I can't speak for the Red Federation or Blue Republic of which I am part of. But they love a good fight *grins*.


You see, the Jovians do let their technology out every once in a while. They helped Sansha start his nation way back. They helped the Angel Cartel get going. Those are the only two groups that have ships that don't mesh with the standard empire hulls. Both are based on Jovian technology. And the Jove helped found the be all end all superior fighting force of our universe, CONCORD. CONCORD's ships can nullify even capsuleer ships with minimal effort, and seem to be in limitless supply.

Eyes need to open. Its getting dark. Hard times are upon us.


Which was my point. The Jovians may very well supply people with tech once in a while. But nobody just takes it. Ergo; the jovians must be helping them.

A'dun
Posted - 2010.06.27 00:13:00 - [68]
 

Has anyone yet considered the possibility of Angel Cartel involvement in these affairs? The fact that the Cartel exhibits widespread use of Jovian-based technology is well-known. I could certainly see them acting as brokers in some sort of diplomatic trade off. Who knows... Perhaps the Jovians are willing to provide a staging area in return for cybernetic technology? It's certainly possible the Nation has discovered a way to combat the Jovian Disease.

Surrah
Supra Tenetur
Posted - 2010.06.27 00:16:00 - [69]
 

Edited by: Surrah on 27/06/2010 00:17:54
Originally by: A'dun
Has anyone yet considered the possibility of Angel Cartel involvement in these affairs? The fact that the Cartel exhibits widespread use of Jovian-based technology is well-known. I could certainly see them acting as brokers in some sort of diplomatic trade off. Who knows... Perhaps the Jovians are willing to provide a staging area in return for cybernetic technology? It's certainly possible the Nation has discovered a way to combat the Jovian Disease.


It has been suggested. I expect they will strike from behind, while all eyes are on Nation.

Here is my take on the situation

Myrkala
Minmatar
Rebel Inc
Posted - 2010.06.27 00:22:00 - [70]
 

Edited by: Myrkala on 27/06/2010 00:23:08
Originally by: A'dun
Has anyone yet considered the possibility of Angel Cartel involvement in these affairs? The fact that the Cartel exhibits widespread use of Jovian-based technology is well-known. I could certainly see them acting as brokers in some sort of diplomatic trade off. Who knows... Perhaps the Jovians are willing to provide a staging area in return for cybernetic technology? It's certainly possible the Nation has discovered a way to combat the Jovian Disease.


I am investigating the Angel Cartels involvement in this matter, because they do seem to be involved in almost everything Jove.

FeralShadow
NME1
Posted - 2010.06.27 00:38:00 - [71]
 

I think the first question we should be asking is:

How did the camera probe make it through the wormhole? It should have been obliterated. Perhaps we can replicate what happened to the probe so we can actually get a scout capsuleer into the enemy fortress.

neuroticdax
Caldari
Volition Cult
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.06.27 00:59:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: FeralShadow
I think the first question we should be asking is:

How did the camera probe make it through the wormhole? It should have been obliterated. Perhaps we can replicate what happened to the probe so we can actually get a scout capsuleer into the enemy fortress.


perhaps with the use of a zephyr?

Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2010.06.27 01:08:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Myrkala
Edited by: Myrkala on 27/06/2010 00:23:08
Originally by: A'dun
Has anyone yet considered the possibility of Angel Cartel involvement in these affairs? The fact that the Cartel exhibits widespread use of Jovian-based technology is well-known. I could certainly see them acting as brokers in some sort of diplomatic trade off. Who knows... Perhaps the Jovians are willing to provide a staging area in return for cybernetic technology? It's certainly possible the Nation has discovered a way to combat the Jovian Disease.


I am investigating the Angel Cartels involvement in this matter, because they do seem to be involved in almost everything Jove.


... Pilots, I'm not so very involved in these affairs just now due to some ongoing problems that the necessary people are duly informed about, but this I just have to say something about, that being, "I'msorrywhat?"

What?

WHAT??

Do the words "shooting war" mean anything to you, pilots?

How about "invasion," or perhaps, "vicious territorial dispute?"

A little remedial nullsec political geography, pilots: Sansha's Nation and the Angel Cartel are, indeed, neighbors-- profoundly unfriendly ones. The Nation is engaged in aggressive expansion and trying to take our space by force.

And if the Angel Cartel had such technology, I can assure you it would very much be keeping it to itself. If there was any such inspiration for ships like the Machariel, it is, at most, derivative.

We may be a little mercenary at times, pilots, but we're not blasted stupid.

Corelous Alterrian
Amarr
High Flyers
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2010.06.27 01:15:00 - [74]
 

When Faction Warfare started I said then "This doesn't seam right, There is someone pulling strings we haven't seen yet." and suggested caution. But the Empires allowed the most Chaotic people in the Verse to start fighting unrestrained. Ever think that maybe the Nation had a hand in the mysterious Minmatar fleet that came out of no where and managed to fire off a cyno and jump caps into a HIGH sec system? Or some how brain washed the mind of what WAS a Highly decorated officer in the Fed Navy and by all accounts was a intelligent and good man,Or that the return of a long dead heir who possessed a tech that no one had ever seen and powerful enuff to bring down a ENTIRE Cap fleet in one shot? If the Nation has gotten agents into the Amarr empire and the Minmatar empire can you imagine the devastation that would come from 2 of the Major 4 being controlled by them?

I could take anyone of these and say "Well werid stuff happens" But all of this at once just seams planed to me. Maybe the jovians are helping them, Maybe not. Time will tell and we may have done more to help them then we even know.

Well thats my 2 cents. Anyone got a channel for the Sansha stuff? Cause I keep missing it and would like to add my ship and skills to the fight.


Inmane
Posted - 2010.06.27 01:51:00 - [75]
 

I would like to post something little offtopic: The largest confirmed meteor impact on The Earth was created by 10+ km wide meteor 20km/s fast and created 250 - 300 km diameter crater and penetrated 17km deep. Imagine all rocks from crater that are shooted out and shake. I guest large heavy debris was shooted faster than bullet. There exist scifi, where exists planetary bombardment by big asteroids. It is cheaper to use rocks instead of ships to bombard ;).

Fleet before jove station looks like in parade formation. I think this is done by nations who are preparing to wage war. I think they wanted to demonstrate their power ( ships ) and their influence ( Jove ) to us.

There is one idea i have not read here: maybe Nation have not given nohting to Jove, but Jove might want something from us.

neuroticdax
Caldari
Volition Cult
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.06.27 01:57:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Inmane
I would like to post something little offtopic: The largest confirmed meteor impact on The Earth was created by 10+ km wide meteor 20km/s fast and created 250 - 300 km diameter crater and penetrated 17km deep. Imagine all rocks from crater that are shooted out and shake. I guest large heavy debris was shooted faster than bullet. There exist scifi, where exists planetary bombardment by big asteroids. It is cheaper to use rocks instead of ships to bombard ;).

Fleet before jove station looks like in parade formation. I think this is done by nations who are preparing to wage war. I think they wanted to demonstrate their power ( ships ) and their influence ( Jove ) to us.

There is one idea i have not read here: maybe Nation have not given nohting to Jove, but Jove might want something from us.


we are but children in the eyes of their technalogical advancement....what could we give them

Phosphorus Palladium
Posted - 2010.06.27 02:14:00 - [77]
 

Edited by: Phosphorus Palladium on 27/08/2010 16:57:03
* COMMUNICATION DELETED UPON REQUEST BY THE SOCIETY *

Citizen Astur
True Power
Posted - 2010.06.27 02:34:00 - [78]
 

Nothing passes through our portals without Master willing it. He wanted you to see the truth.

The first question you should be asking is why, all this time later, the Jove have not come to the empires seeking assistance. Let me give you the answer they will not: It is because they do not want anyone to know the truth.

And what is the truth?

The truth is that the Jove are not as omnipotent as they want the rest of the cluster to believe. Too few of you have questioned, over the years, just how much it serves their own interests to cultivate such a mythology.

You are heirs to a greater glory, capsuleers. Do you not realize this simple fact? Look at the path they are leading you down. Look at the fate that torments them. It is the same fate that awaits you if you continue to follow in their footsteps. I do not believe any of you truly want what they offer, it is just that until now, you were offered no alternative.

Master Kuvakei alone is brave enough to seek other paths. We need not march towards oblivion with the Jove blindly beating the drum. Humanity can still be saved, but only through change that will be confrontational, violent, and at times alienating. These are the costs of a true alternative. We are fighting against almost a decade of entrenched perspectives, this will be no easy task.

Just as this truth will not be easy to accept, but you capsuleers are much more powerful than you think. Master Kuvakei alone recognizes that you are worth more, so much more. Do not be paralyzed by fear and doubt. Do not become distracted by propaganda and myth.

Think rationally about what you see before you.

jdok
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2010.06.27 02:41:00 - [79]
 

I don't think there is much rationality to be found around these parts. All I've managed to see are typical binary oppositions and claims of 'WE WIN! YOU LOSE!'

There will always be those who cannot be saved. But they choose their own path, all others can do is sit back and enjoy the hilarity of it all. I applaud Kuv for trying, he's actually a pretty decent lad once you get past all the cryptic creepiness.

Brackstone
Posted - 2010.06.27 02:52:00 - [80]
 

one more reason to inhabit the outskirts of known space. obscurity will keep me safe as it always has.

Julianus Soter
Gallente
Moira.
Posted - 2010.06.27 03:00:00 - [81]
 

I wouldn't expect anything else from a fully-cultivated True Citizen, Ms. Astur. Well done on the propaganda.

Unfortunately for you, I know things that Kuvakei doesn't want to be known.

The time for his reckoning is fast approaching.

Sai Renn
BLIND VENGENCE
CompleXion Alliance
Posted - 2010.06.27 03:26:00 - [82]
 

Edited by: Sai Renn on 27/06/2010 03:27:14
You are correct Astur, we should think on what the truth is.

The truth? should we be afraid of the Jove, or of the Nation. No, no. We fear no one.

We are the immortal's, we are reborn GODS.

Bring your fleets, Bring all you have, and burn the Empire fleets that stand in your way. But I will advise you Astur, that should your forces stand in the path of the Immortal Capsular's, Then we will turn your hulls to glass without reprise, and without mercy.

In this universe, you are all but slaves to our will. And you exists only because we allow you to.

Citizen Astur
True Power
Posted - 2010.06.27 03:28:00 - [83]
 

Be warned, capsuleers: Soter's arrogance is exactly what we must fight against. He is a man blinded by the fame and prestige that recent events have afforded him. Look at the way he dismisses the truth. Look at the way he seeks to bolster his own numbers while this world he claims is so worth fighting for burns around him.

This empty posturing may fool the weak-willed and subservient amongst you, but he has not fooled the collective wisdom of Nation, and tempered souls will see the truth behind his actions. There is nothing he knows that could harm us, nor any truth that we fear. We bring truth, we do not hide from it like his CONCORD masters.

If you had anything substantive to offer, Soter, you would have said it already.

You lead nothing but a gang of thugs seeking violence. Maut showed this much. You saw we were not there, you realized this much, and yet you "fought" anyway. Against what? Stop kidding yourselves. Your interest is in glory, in violence, and not the welfare of baseline humanity.

Tell me this is propaganda, dear.

Tell them all I am the conditioned and cultivated one.

I won't blame you. You have little else left in your arsenal.

FeralShadow
NME1
Posted - 2010.06.27 03:35:00 - [84]
 

Interesting points, Astur. I don't think it's really that we're being led down certain paths. It's more we dislike the methods with which Kuvakei ensures people are united in his cause. While your forces don't attack anybody that doesn't attack them first, it doesn't change the fact that Nation FORCEFULLY abducts people on planets and FORCES them into Nation's army. Once there, these people can rarely think for themselves. That is what we despise the most. Individual thinking is what makes us human. Without that, we might as well be drones encased in flesh. It's the chance to think for yourself and change the outcome of your life if you so desire that we all covet the most. Sansha takes this away and because of that, we cannot accept your truth, as tempting as it may be. And so, Soter gains support.

-FeralShadow

Julianus Soter
Gallente
Moira.
Posted - 2010.06.27 03:43:00 - [85]
 

Edited by: Julianus Soter on 27/06/2010 03:56:39
I'm afraid, m'dear, that my arsenal isn't meant for Old Man Kuvakei's pawns. Move along before you start repeating yourself.

As an aside: What kind of arrogance allows one man to propel himself to become the sole ruler and god of billions of people's minds? To dictate their every action, and to cast them into the fire freely for minimal gain?

Arrogance, indeed.

Will Gauss
Gallente
TerminalDogma
Stellar Economy Experts
Posted - 2010.06.27 03:47:00 - [86]
 

In system at Huttaken, no sign of a wormhole and 15 people in system.

Will Gauss
Gallente
TerminalDogma
Stellar Economy Experts
Posted - 2010.06.27 03:58:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Citizen Astur
(blah blah)


It's a shame, I thought a distributed consciousness such as your society would collectively be able to generate something that was less transparently propaganda and garbage. OOC content removed.Applebabe Look how well THAT turned out.

Nikilaiki Ruutarhara
Caldari
Project Daedalid
Posted - 2010.06.27 04:00:00 - [88]
 

Edited by: Nikilaiki Ruutarhara on 27/07/2010 04:35:25

Gosakumori Noh
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2010.06.27 04:07:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: Citizen Astur

Just as this truth will not be easy to accept, but you capsuleers are much more powerful than you think.


Given the number of capsuleers who already think they are "gods," I am skeptical you have spent much time around many. However, you are fundamentally correct in asserting that there can be no progress without struggle. But for a conflict to be a "struggle," the outcome must be uncertain.

Is Nation uncertain?

Iture
Caldari
Burning Napalm
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.06.27 04:23:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Citizen Astur
Be warned,



Never threaten us peon.

We capsuleer's are gods.
We are immortal and invincible.
Your great nation may have many thousands of ships, but our collective has a great many more. We use and abuse this system, do not meddle in things you do not have the power to fully control. Angering the whole will result in your destruction. Be careful in how you speak to us.


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