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CaptCole
Posted - 2010.06.27 00:04:00 - [61]
 

Since no one has opened a channel for this topic please feel free joining
"rise now as one"
public channel to continue your debate.

ThanksVery Happy

CONCORD OOC censor applied. Zymurgist

Gangleri
Amarr
1st Praetorian Guard
Posted - 2010.06.27 00:40:00 - [62]
 

The 1st Praetorian Guard has been put on high alert status by orders of the Imperial Navy. I can report this to you all as the Scope News has already managed to get their hands on these orders given. Ships and resources are being stationed over the regions of the Amarr Empire to build up a rapid reaction force.

Deus vult,

Legatus Gangleri.


Black Lister
Gallente
The Praxis Initiative
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2010.06.27 01:01:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: neuroticdax
Originally by: Black Lister
Originally by: Bazax
Edited by: Bazax on 26/06/2010 22:31:15
well said but from the intel gathered there was an amarr titan there they are likely to be working together with the nation


Its not impossible to steal/copy technology. As you can see their is a ship from every faction in that fleet. If what you said is true, then aren't they all in a conspiracy against... themselves?


with that in mind it is not intirely improbbable that the sanshas may have access to the same wepons that empress jamyl's abbadon was fitted with and if not the wepon itself perhaps the data relating to how to create or perfect such a device


It's fitting that you mention this. The Jovian's are cloaking 98% of all terran technology around the EVE Gate. That means, only 2% is out there for us to find (namely the Amarrians who are near the gate itself). Of those 2%, only one item has been found, and that is the Terran weapon Marcus found, and you saw the damage that can do. Then you have to realize that that 98% of Terran technology that has been cloaked because it's leftover. They've allready learned how to use Terran technology (technology at the time of the EVE Gate collaps; terrans would have improved in the past 10k years). And if current New Eden reverse engineering can take a Shipping Vessal's weapon (that's right, Sarum's weapon was from a freighter) and destroy and entire Matari fleet, you have to immagin what could be done with a Terran warship weapon or, dare I say it, super-weapon could do! Their ability to recreate the empire's technology and create woermholes, doesn't surprise me.

It seems only with the help of the Terrans will we be able to combat this force.

FeralShadow
NME1
Posted - 2010.06.27 01:06:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Haeldone Dorgiers
Originally by: Julianus Soter
That facility is a Jovian station.


I cannot speak any further on the matter at this time other than to confirm it as Prosper Vault, 3-CE1R.

I would caution you against hubris, capsuleers. The size of the fleet is not the point of primary concern.


I would like to know, Mr. Dorgiers, how you can possibly get the Prosper Vault in 3-CE1R out of the picture that the camera probe took? To phrase it another way:

How can you look at the camera probe picture, see the station in the picture, and come to the conclusion that it's the Prosper vault in 3-CE1R? It looks nothing like the station that we know of.

Please explain.

-FeralShadow

Black Lister
Gallente
The Praxis Initiative
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2010.06.27 01:17:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: FeralShadow
Originally by: Haeldone Dorgiers
Originally by: Julianus Soter
That facility is a Jovian station.


I cannot speak any further on the matter at this time other than to confirm it as Prosper Vault, 3-CE1R.

I would caution you against hubris, capsuleers. The size of the fleet is not the point of primary concern.


I would like to know, Mr. Dorgiers, how you can possibly get the Prosper Vault in 3-CE1R out of the picture that the camera probe took? To phrase it another way:

How can you look at the camera probe picture, see the station in the picture, and come to the conclusion that it's the Prosper vault in 3-CE1R? It looks nothing like the station that we know of.

Please explain.

-FeralShadow


CONCORD is lying to us. They've allways been lying to us. Their lies and selfish actions have led to this era. The Nation is fuled by their hate for CONCORD. They've been doing all of this, because of CONCORD. CONCORD refued Keiten Yun's plea for freedom for his fellow Minmatar enslaved in Amarr space. They refused the freedom of others, all for the sake of their so called "peace." Now they lie to us to keep their dirty past hidden. Well, I guess I can't say "now", as they've allways been lying to us.

Tandin
The Knights Templar
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2010.06.27 01:23:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Black Lister
It seems only with the help of the Terrans will we be able to combat this force.


While this is a bit of a stretch, you're obviously assuming the Terrans aren't assisting the other side. It's unlikely the Terrans are involved at all but if there is some involvement, there's no way to predict what it entails at this point and who it supports.

That said, the NC alone has the cap and supercap capacity to repel the fleet in the images. It's mostly a matter of unifying the pilot populations against a common threat. Until that threat is visible and perceived as such a threat, most simply won't care.


neuroticdax
Caldari
Volition Cult
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.06.27 01:42:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Black Lister
Originally by: neuroticdax
Originally by: Black Lister
Originally by: Bazax
Edited by: Bazax on 26/06/2010 22:31:15
well said but from the intel gathered there was an amarr titan there they are likely to be working together with the nation


Its not impossible to steal/copy technology. As you can see their is a ship from every faction in that fleet. If what you said is true, then aren't they all in a conspiracy against... themselves?


with that in mind it is not intirely improbbable that the sanshas may have access to the same wepons that empress jamyl's abbadon was fitted with and if not the wepon itself perhaps the data relating to how to create or perfect such a device


It's fitting that you mention this. The Jovian's are cloaking 98% of all terran technology around the EVE Gate. That means, only 2% is out there for us to find (namely the Amarrians who are near the gate itself). Of those 2%, only one item has been found, and that is the Terran weapon Marcus found, and you saw the damage that can do. Then you have to realize that that 98% of Terran technology that has been cloaked because it's leftover. They've allready learned how to use Terran technology (technology at the time of the EVE Gate collaps; terrans would have improved in the past 10k years). And if current New Eden reverse engineering can take a Shipping Vessal's weapon (that's right, Sarum's weapon was from a freighter) and destroy and entire Matari fleet, you have to immagin what could be done with a Terran warship weapon or, dare I say it, super-weapon could do! Their ability to recreate the empire's technology and create woermholes, doesn't surprise me.

It seems only with the help of the Terrans will we be able to combat this force.


it troubles me to think that wepon was only a freghter's defence system

Reaper gI
Me Wanna Machariel
Posted - 2010.06.27 02:07:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: neuroticdax
it troubles me to think that wepon was only a freghter's defence system

Assuming that was a defensive system. Surely with technology largly unknown to us it could easily be another component being misapropriated.
As has been said ships freequently use antimater in propulsion systems, the technology in that is also effective in and commonly used in weapon systems. The ability to use a Terran weapon would require recognition that it was a weapon system and also knowledge how it was targeted and powered. Restoring one fully would surely require a large number of moderately intact artefacts and the time to reconstruct those artefacts and test them.

neuroticdax
Caldari
Volition Cult
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.06.27 02:11:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Reaper gI
Originally by: neuroticdax
it troubles me to think that wepon was only a freghter's defence system

Assuming that was a defensive system. Surely with technology largly unknown to us it could easily be another component being misapropriated.
As has been said ships freequently use antimater in propulsion systems, the technology in that is also effective in and commonly used in weapon systems. The ability to use a Terran weapon would require recognition that it was a weapon system and also knowledge how it was targeted and powered. Restoring one fully would surely require a large number of moderately intact artefacts and the time to reconstruct those artefacts and test them.


from what intel was gatherd about the 'wepon' we only know it turns the targeted ships shield against it causing it to 'implode from the outside'

ghosttr
Amarr
ARK-CORP
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.06.27 04:04:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: neuroticdax
Originally by: Reaper gI
Originally by: neuroticdax
it troubles me to think that wepon was only a freghter's defence system

Assuming that was a defensive system. Surely with technology largly unknown to us it could easily be another component being misapropriated.
As has been said ships freequently use antimater in propulsion systems, the technology in that is also effective in and commonly used in weapon systems. The ability to use a Terran weapon would require recognition that it was a weapon system and also knowledge how it was targeted and powered. Restoring one fully would surely require a large number of moderately intact artefacts and the time to reconstruct those artefacts and test them.


from what intel was gatherd about the 'wepon' we only know it turns the targeted ships shield against it causing it to 'implode from the outside'


We can very much assume it was a weapons system. Or do you concider it coincidence that sleeper vessels lack shielding systemsWink

Reaper gI
Me Wanna Machariel
Posted - 2010.06.27 04:55:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: ghosttr

We can very much assume it was a weapons system. Or do you concider it coincidence that sleeper vessels lack shielding systemsWink

We have little to no informaton for the origin of this "weapon" or of the origins of the sleepers. They may simply have chosen to forsake sheild systems utterly (assuming they had them) in favor of armor; on a similar vein to most modern Amarr designs but sacfifising the system totaly.

Your guess is as good as mine, I very much doubt the device will be given out for archeolgical study to compare date of origin.

Sinti Vailatti
Khanid Provincial Vanguard
Posted - 2010.06.27 05:35:00 - [72]
 

Soter, your willingnees to defend Concord makes this piece of the puzzle make even more sense.

2010.05.20 06:23:16 ] Ghost Hunter > Welcome back, Mr. Dorgiers. Did you have fun?
[2010.05.20 06:25:37 ] Ghost Hunter > I must thank you for your help - such is manners, after all.
[2010.05.20 06:25:43 ] Math'ra Hiede > Help?
[2010.05.20 06:26:36 ] Ghost Hunter > It would be improper of me to spell it out for you, Mr. Hiede. I think Mr. Soter knows it well enough.
[2010.05.20 06:26:53 ] Math'ra Hiede > Perhaps, still I had to ask
[2010.05.20 06:27:02 ] Nikilaiki Ruutarhara > Soter?
[2010.05.20 06:28:09 ] Nikilaiki Ruutarhara > Why would Soter know anything about your plans?
[2010.05.20 06:28:43 ] Ryanqzqz > I believe it may be best to wait until intelligence is issued within the next 24 hours.
[2010.05.20 06:28:45 ] Ghost Hunter > Has he not told you? I would think him more trusting of his ... close people.
[2010.05.20 06:29:15 ] Nikilaiki Ruutarhara > /emote smiles. "When have I ever been one of his close people?"
[2010.05.20 06:30:01 ] Nikilaiki Ruutarhara > Enlighten me dear one... please.
[2010.05.20 06:30:06 ] Ghost Hunter > I would shrug if I could. Still, point.
[2010.05.20 06:31:00 ] Ghost Hunter > I do not wish to - bring misfortune, upon Mr. Soter.
[2010.05.20 06:31:17 ] Nikilaiki Ruutarhara > Ghost, if you had the winning hand, you would have shown it.
[2010.05.20 06:31:39 ] Nikilaiki Ruutarhara > We would not be having this conversation.
[2010.05.20 06:31:42 ] Ghost Hunter > Master Kuvakei holds the winning hand, my dear.



I don't know about the rest of you chummers, but I'm glad I have the Empire fighting this side of the battle and not Concord or the Gallente. Something is just not adding up here and if I were Gallente, I'd be wondering why and how the Federation got hit so much harder than everyone else.

It stinks. Someone high up in the capsuleer resistance is feeding intel to the Nation.

Find the mole before it all goes to hell.




Mouse Nell
Gallente
Posted - 2010.06.27 06:19:00 - [73]
 

The probe I sent through had more than just visual sensors. I was focused on pinpointing the system's location, as well as whatever they could be using to form the wormholes. Yeah, that still from the feed is just one bit of info but it is the most relevant, and the most profound. That is what the people taken see, the first thing they get to their new home. That is what any fleet attempting to go through one of these generated Violent Wormholes will need to be prepared to face.

And Kuvakei has come out and stated

Originally by: Master Kuvakei
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
It's Jovian.


No, my dear boy. It's mine.




So... yeah. We best arm our selves, because its going to be a HELL of a fight.

kilbright
Posted - 2010.06.27 07:40:00 - [74]
 

Edited by: kilbright on 27/06/2010 07:40:29
---Of Interest--

I am working closely with a few contacts recently made with some "less" than honest folk; trying to track down leads. My main contact is moving steadly around space at this time building up his connections as we speak. Assumptions so far are all my contact has, but he has noticed in the Jita market a steady increase of price in materials to make, "Unique" items. Also has noticed in some areas more of The Nations' ships getting around stations, and gates in outlying areas. It might be all just a capsuleer jumping at shadows, or where we might want to start monitoring closer.

If my guesses are correct, which I hope to get more definition as time progresses, that fleet we saw was just the tip of the iceburg. With that captured station, and the Jove tech to work with, we might be seeing an evolution of yet a whole new aspect of the threat. Add the fact that Concord is "strangly" being quiet, and more complacent than normal.... Well lets just say, I am not sure what to be more afraid of. The new ships that we might see, or the fact Concord might not be there when we need them

I will Kkeep in touch with my contact and try to keep you updated on his findings. I hope this helped.


Mixed Signals
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.06.27 08:01:00 - [75]
 

Has anyone stopped to consider that the fleet shown in the picture is just one of the many being prepared by the Sansha Fleet? There could be 10 more wormholes out there with fleets of the same size for all we know. If the Jove are helping the Sansha or the Sansha have taken over the Jove, they have the resources for a fleet much larger than the one we see here.

Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2010.06.27 08:04:00 - [76]
 

Following the mobilisation of Imperial forces, PIE has been placed on a full mobilisation alert.

We stand ready to assist the Domain Fleet and the Royal Houses.

Lost InCogneto
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2010.06.27 08:21:00 - [77]
 

Amarrian Retribution stands ready to commit it forces to the fight

alden good
Easy Co.
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2010.06.27 09:03:00 - [78]
 

TO THE BAT MOBILE!!!!!

Emarian
Caldari
Knights of the Dark
Posted - 2010.06.27 10:32:00 - [79]
 

Edited by: Emarian on 27/06/2010 10:32:50
CONCORD better place appropriate bounties on those capital/super capital ships.
And
Why would sansha use Moros dreadnoughts instead of Phoenixes or Revelations seems out of their combat doctrine of lasers and missiles.

Andreus LeHane
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
Posted - 2010.06.27 10:44:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Emarian
CONCORD better place appropriate bounties on those capital/super capital ships.
And
Why would sansha use Moros dreadnoughts instead of Phoenixes or Revelations seems out of their combat doctrine of lasers and missiles.


Because despite their fancy rhetoric, the Sanshas, having no abstract cognitive capacity whatsoever, are not capable of designing or inventing things for themselves. You'll notice that even the more unique tools in their arsenal - the Succubus, the Phantasm and the Nightmare - are not, in fact, anything more than simple amalgamations of Caldari and Amarrian technology. Kuvakei's anything but the genius that people make him out to be - he's merely a shallow, bitter pretender with delusions of grandeur. The true innovations in all Sansha technology are always, without a single exception, bought, borrowed or stolen from somewhere else, and where they can't innovate, they steal or copy what they can't make for themselves. Hence their use of capital ships developed and built by other races - they simply don't have the intellect neccessary to design anything comparable themselves.

So I'm going to go ahead and say that Sansha use Moros dreadnaughts because that's all they could get their hands on.

Then again, this is what you get for making a homogenous hive-mind consciousness with no sense of individuality or personal vibrance. You lose the unique perspectives and insights that allow for any sort of scientific advance.

Emarian
Caldari
Knights of the Dark
Posted - 2010.06.27 10:56:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Andreus LeHane
Originally by: Emarian
CONCORD better place appropriate bounties on those capital/super capital ships.
And
Why would sansha use Moros dreadnoughts instead of Phoenixes or Revelations seems out of their combat doctrine of lasers and missiles.


Because despite their fancy rhetoric, the Sanshas, having no abstract cognitive capacity whatsoever, are not capable of designing or inventing things for themselves. You'll notice that even the more unique tools in their arsenal - the Succubus, the Phantasm and the Nightmare - are not, in fact, anything more than simple amalgamations of Caldari and Amarrian technology. Kuvakei's anything but the genius that people make him out to be - he's merely a shallow, bitter pretender with delusions of grandeur. The true innovations in all Sansha technology are always, without a single exception, bought, borrowed or stolen from somewhere else, and where they can't innovate, they steal or copy what they can't make for themselves. Hence their use of capital ships developed and built by other races - they simply don't have the intellect neccessary to design anything comparable themselves.

So I'm going to go ahead and say that Sansha use Moros dreadnaughts because that's all they could get their hands on.

Then again, this is what you get for making a homogenous hive-mind consciousness with no sense of individuality or personal vibrance. You lose the unique perspectives and insights that allow for any sort of scientific advance.

Probably so, but it would be easier to just copy the capital ships of other races and use them so you wouldn't have to design build and test your own capital ships. So I suppose moros wouldn't be that hard to get a hold of since there are so many BPs floating around New Eden.
Now about the hive-mind thing if the controller of the rest of the hive is somewhat creative, hence the designs of the Nightmare, Phantasm, and Succubus then it might be capable of inventing something. All Kuvakei is doing is controlling his minions, dosent mean he has lost his individuality, also he is the leader which means he is different from the others in a way that sets him apart from the rank and file of the techno-zombies people call sansha.

Jebizael Hunter
Gallente
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2010.06.27 11:32:00 - [82]
 

Best not to think of the Nation as mindless fools. Before they fell, they had a non-True Slave class surviving off the work of the True Slaves.
While most will have left when humanity attacked the nation last time, they may still have fanatics left from that class.
And True Slaves are not robots. They are the human mind twisted.

Emarian
Caldari
Knights of the Dark
Posted - 2010.06.27 11:44:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Jebizael Hunter
Best not to think of the Nation as mindless fools. Before they fell, they had a non-True Slave class surviving off the work of the True Slaves.
While most will have left when humanity attacked the nation last time, they may still have fanatics left from that class.
And True Slaves are not robots. They are the human mind twisted.

I suppose so, having survived this long would take more then just being a robotic slave.

So I will merit them with having enough humanity left in them to survive us capsuleers blasting them where ever we find them.

Carola Kessler
Posted - 2010.06.27 12:08:00 - [84]
 

What if.....If the Jove finally died out and Sansha's simply toke over their space due to the Ability to creat wormholes it seems to me on of their scouts once was able to enter Jovian space and discovered all unoccupied......gathered the knowledge about how to create / use Jovian technology and beeing able to take the survivors from the last battle ages ago to Jovian space from where they learned from the left Jovian artifacts and gained most of their technology?! This would explain why Jove Directorate staid quite, also the lack about informations coming from CONCORD representatives, Cause they most likely know that Jove are died out and the whole space is from them were abandoned!

What about this possibility why a Sansha's fleet has been found in Jovian space?

Bazax
Minmatar
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.06.27 12:09:00 - [85]
 

Edited by: Bazax on 27/06/2010 12:16:48
Edited by: Bazax on 27/06/2010 12:15:16
so on the next note... when do we think we can expect an attack and more importantly were?

and if they attack "High security" systems will concord allow our capitals to come in and help protect

Roan Bishop
Amarr
SaberCorp
Posted - 2010.06.27 13:46:00 - [86]
 

Oh, lookie. They're all lined up and ready to be taken out one wave at a time. I think there is a reason this formation isn't used anymore... Oh, wait, I remember. It's because you can't field appropriate weaponry due to range variations from front to back. So... Yeah. Make sure you Nation ships show up exactly as shown. I'd hate to think of this as false advertisement.

tow bogdan
Gallente
Intaki Armaments
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2010.06.27 15:10:00 - [87]
 

Edited by: tow bogdan on 27/06/2010 15:12:03
The most troubling thing in all what happened is that Jove wants to use Nation for something. It's an absurd to think that Jove would have problem with getting rid of any Sansha forces in their territory. All we know about Jove technology sais that they can destroy that "mighty" Nation capital fleet with a bunch of BS sized ships. They are using Nation for some reason, to achieve some goals in empire space.

Or maybe, their just using Sansha as a distraction. Maybe they're planning something bigger. For me it's naive to suppose that Nation, just by itself, would be able to infiltrate CONCORD and any other key organisation of the empires on high scale. But with help of jovian intelligence? That's just a piece of cake. And the worse thing is, that if Jove Empire is planning something, there's probably no way to stop them. They are like gods for us. They shared some light to us with capsuleer technology, but that's just a small piece of what they posess.

But also, what we shouldn't forget about, Jove are dieying. The Jovian Disease isn't a small issue, it's a pleauge that might destroy them in future not that far. Maybe they look for a cure? Maybe that's what they need Shansha for? Maybe that's what they need those thousands of people kidnapped from empire space? Maybe they need those as sources of genetical data and test subjects? I hope Jovian Directorate will speak up soon. But also, I'm afraid that not only they won't tell us the truth, but we have no power to force them to do that. We can just hope that what they're planning won't pose a danger to our existance.

And as a last thought... Why Jovians let us become capsuleers? Maybe it's all a part of some plan? I hope not... Jovians are people without emotions. They can't feel anger, never seek vengeance. I just hope that in their "perfection" they can still see the difference between good and evil.

Bazax
Minmatar
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.06.27 16:18:00 - [88]
 

Edited by: Bazax on 27/06/2010 16:18:18
well for now lets say that concord has been comprimised if you think back to the wormhole attacks around empires systems like frarn were was concord? we had to had to fend these crazy zombies off our trust in concord should be put aside and if it comes to it ignore concord as an "offical" body

living freighter
Posted - 2010.06.27 16:25:00 - [89]
 

Edited by: living freighter on 27/06/2010 16:25:42
Originally by: Bazax
Edited by: Bazax on 27/06/2010 16:18:18
well for now lets say that concord has been comprimised if you think back to the wormhole attacks around empires systems like frarn were was concord? we had to had to fend these crazy zombies off our trust in concord should be put aside and if it comes to it ignore concord as an "offical" body


I wouldn't blame CONCORD for that, really... Attacks were in low security space, it's not CONCORD responsibility to defend these areas. But ofc infiltrator issue is disturbing. I'm quite sure acess to CONCORD databases and tracking their action is most important for Sansha, but CONCORD is too big to be paralized easily even if there would be Jove involved. It's just bad we can't fully trust Concord agents.

neuroticdax
Caldari
Volition Cult
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.06.27 17:14:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: living freighter
Edited by: living freighter on 27/06/2010 16:25:42
Originally by: Bazax
Edited by: Bazax on 27/06/2010 16:18:18
well for now lets say that concord has been comprimised if you think back to the wormhole attacks around empires systems like frarn were was concord? we had to had to fend these crazy zombies off our trust in concord should be put aside and if it comes to it ignore concord as an "offical" body


dont forget the attack on umokka 8 after witch there was a cover-up on weather or not a capital ship was allowed to enter highsec and ofc the awnser to that is yes

I wouldn't blame CONCORD for that, really... Attacks were in low security space, it's not CONCORD responsibility to defend these areas. But ofc infiltrator issue is disturbing. I'm quite sure acess to CONCORD databases and tracking their action is most important for Sansha, but CONCORD is too big to be paralized easily even if there would be Jove involved. It's just bad we can't fully trust Concord agents.


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