open All Channels
seplocked EVE Information Portal
blankseplocked New Dev Blog: Improving Gamemastery: Surveying Your Satisfaction
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 2 [3]

Author Topic

Lusulpher
Gallente
Posted - 2010.07.01 06:17:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Cinori Aluben
New survey format = Good.

Will people take the time to fill it out now? Only slightly more likely than before.

Suggestions of this thread I agree with:
1) Pop-up prompt in-game to fill out survey when any petition is finished, essentially requiring filling out of bubbles before window can be closed.
2) Reverse survey on every petition, filled out by GM, for internal use and for comparison with customer survey.
3) Random population sample polls.
4) Offer incentives for filling out the petition survey. How to balance this so that people don't start filing petitions simply for the incentives is something to think about, but, I'm SURE you brilliant CCP/GM minds can figure something out.
5)
Originally by: Ban Doga
That the average of the rating differs from the actually perceived quality is only surprising when you expect that every petition has the same relevance.


My suggestions:
1) Have a "submit survey and close petition" button at the bottom of the survey window. Half the time I don't know if my survey results are still in limbo, if the petition is still open or closed, or if it is closed, how long to do I have to respond in a survey? Just make it more an easy open/close-done kinda thing.
2) What about assign a GM to randomly EVEMAIL people asking them how they think their petition process went? Players tend to respond to evemails more often than they do anything else imo.
3)



The incentive: your petitions will be prioritized on some list. Maybe 'first in pool' or 'important to resolve now' List.

Just to show how cynical I am now, I didn't even read the Devblog, I actually feared a troll. Satisfaction + Petition + CCP, I was clearly being set up.Confused

When are they going to create a solid protocol for reimbursement btw?? Some people I know got their ships back from fights that I was in and I petitioned independently. Is PvE higher resolution than the complexity of PvP? Desync completely resolved?

GM Fate


Minmatar
Game Masters
Posted - 2010.07.01 14:48:00 - [62]
 

Hey guys,

Nice to hear from so many of you. Many good comments and suggestions.

This will be a multi part message.

First some general comments:
Several people have commented that the third of petitioners that take the time to respond to the survey don´t necessarily represent the other two thirds. Of course that is true and it´s a problem not easily solved. We are trying to increase the survey response rate and this Dev Blog is a step in that direction. Other ways are being considered to better measure satisfaction and we feel that we are moving in the right direction.

Some of you have expressed doubt that the surveys are used by us. I assure you that they are. We´ve always utilized the results of the survey but recently we´ve added more detailed reports and tools that we can use to sift through the data. The new tools are quite powerful and allow us to see things not accessible to us before. As an example, the survey results will be useTd to spot trends where our results in specific petition categories go up or down more than what can be considered normal. We can use that to spot issues and changes that aren´t obvious at first.

A recent project that we´re pretty excited about is the „Unhappy Customers“ project. Senior members of our staff regularly go through survey results and use the ratings to deliver feedback to GMs as well as suggestions to managers for training topics, policy and procedure reviews. We recently announced this project to the CSM and are working on a separate Dev Blog about it.

So, to start with a few things specifically mentioned in this thread:

Have a "submit survey and close petition" button at the bottom of the survey window. Half the time I don't know if my survey results are still in limbo, if the petition is still open or closed, or if it is closed, how long to do I have to respond in a survey? Just make it more an easy open/close-done kinda thing.
Well, you only get sent the survey after your petition closes (which it automatically does after a certain period of the player not replying or the GM closing it).

What about assign a GM to randomly EVEMAIL people asking them how they think their petition process went? Players tend to respond to evemails more often than they do anything else imo.
I like this idea actually. We‘ve started a bunch of stuff having to do with proactively reaching out to the customer (such as the Unhappy Customers initiative) and this would fit very nicely I think. I‘m going to bring it up within the department.

Pop-up prompt in-game to fill out survey when any petition is finished, essentially requiring filling out of bubbles before window can be closed.
I definitely think this idea has merit. It would by default vastly improve the response rate. It just has to be weighed against customer inconvenience to see if it would be worth doing or not.

Reverse survey on every petition, filled out by GM, for internal use and for comparison with customer survey.
I‘m not sure that this would be feasible. This would add so much time to the resolution of each petition that I‘m not sure if it would be worth it. As it is, GMs put notes (invisible to the player) on almost all petitions that are out of the ordinary (whatever the reason) so we already have GM feedback on a lot of of the ones that end up being rated very low.

GM Fate


Minmatar
Game Masters
Posted - 2010.07.01 14:49:00 - [63]
 

Thought I'd take this at face value and go back and rate my last couple of petitions. Only I find they are all set to 9 already...
All feedback about the survey UI is especially appreciated and we will take that into consideration as we continue to improve our interface. For example the survey ratings being a 9 by default is something we should be looking into. But I assure you that the survey isn´t being counted as a 9 until you actually press “Submit”. I took a look at the statistics and 9 is not rated disproportionately to 8 or 10 so it doesn´t seem like the default value is skewing the data.

So if you really are already as heavily involved in filing defects as you say you are, could it be an idea for you to try to work with the player to morph their petition into a bugreport, instead of dropping the ball and expecting them to start again? Perhaps have the GM pull up a basic bugreport template and copy/paste relevant parts of the player's petition into it where they've already explained the bug, then reply it back to them and ask them to make any changes/additions, then have the GM ultimately responsible for making sure the bugreport gets submitted.
You clever little mind-reader you! We‘ve already designed this exact system; it‘s being tested and should be deployed in the current cycle. It should definitely both up the quality of submitted bug replies and make sure that the customer‘s voice is heard directly.

Often quoted from the forum is the general lack of EVE knowledge amongst the GM. While this may not be true individually, it reflects on the GM team as a whole
Generally speaking, we only hire as GMs people who‘ve played EVE for a period of 2 years or longer (with every applicant going through Internal Affairs checking for EVE background). We‘ve hired people who‘ve played less, and even not at all, but in those rare cases we were hunting for specific abilities that we couldn‘t locate otherwise (and then they‘re required to play EVE a LOT to catch up). We‘ve also vastly amped up our newbie training procedures recently, a process that‘s still ongoing further iteration. None of this will preclude a GM from occiasionally making a mistake or not knowing something fairly common knowledge, but on a general level I would say our GMs are knowledgable about the game and play it themselves. On a side note, one of the things we’re trying to do with the survey is to be able to use the results as a quality assurance mechanism, identifying areas where a GM or a group of GM might need more training.

Thank you for your attention on this case. As we in the GM team have no direct ties to the Development Team, I suggest that you post about this idea and any other ideas you might have for optimizing and improving the game in the Features and Ideas Discussion section of our official forums.
This is quite simply wrong, and the GM is making a mistake using this reply. It‘s a legacy reply from the bad old days when EVE CS was outsourced and not a direct part of CCP. We have very direct ties to the development team and make our voices heard loudly. GMs are a part of development scrum and GM documentation of new features has often become the de facto official documentation the whole company refers to post-deployment.

Shootin' Star
The Fancy Hats Corporation
Free Worlds Alliance
Posted - 2010.07.01 17:36:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: GM Fate
Hey guys,

Nice to hear from so many of you. Many good comments and suggestions.

Thank you for replying and getting involved here, GM Fate. It was important that the GMs do so, and is good to see. I look forward to more. One suggestion based on what I read from you ...

Quote:
Some of you have expressed doubt that the surveys are used by us. I assure you that they are. We´ve always utilized the results of the survey but recently we´ve added more detailed reports and tools that we can use to sift through the data. The new tools are quite powerful and allow us to see things not accessible to us before. As an example, the survey results will be useTd to spot trends where our results in specific petition categories go up or down more than what can be considered normal. We can use that to spot issues and changes that aren´t obvious at first.

I think part of the problem here is the "proof or s##u" sort of thing. We can't see it, there's rarely/never any feedback on it either good or bad, and so frustration goes. I'd suggest some sort of return receipt - just like a body can get on their emails in Outlook, for example - as proof to the petitioner that their survey was at least seen by someone in CSR - might be a help. A personal reply about it would always be better, but is hardly practical.


Quote:
A recent project that we´re pretty excited about is the „Unhappy Customers“ project. Senior members of our staff regularly go through survey results and use the ratings to deliver feedback to GMs as well as suggestions to managers for training topics, policy and procedure reviews. We recently announced this project to the CSM and are working on a separate Dev Blog about it.

A very good step to take actively continue. We will be hopeful to expect visible follow up on that, as well.

Quote:
What about assign a GM to randomly EVEMAIL people asking them how they think their petition process went? Players tend to respond to evemails more often than they do anything else imo.
I like this idea actually. We‘ve started a bunch of stuff having to do with proactively reaching out to the customer (such as the Unhappy Customers initiative) and this would fit very nicely I think. I‘m going to bring it up within the department.

Good, because I'll second the idea. Any communication that serves to put a human face on CSR instead of the automated one that too often shows is A Good Thing. I would further suggest that GM Chat might be a nice idea in some cases.

Looking forward to more. Cheers!

1Ekrid1
Posted - 2010.07.01 18:21:00 - [65]
 

Edited by: 1Ekrid1 on 01/07/2010 19:48:53
Edited by: 1Ekrid1 on 01/07/2010 19:47:08
Edited by: 1Ekrid1 on 01/07/2010 19:46:20
Edited by: 1Ekrid1 on 01/07/2010 19:45:36
Edited by: 1Ekrid1 on 01/07/2010 18:25:36
Originally by: Black Dranzer
The people screaming on the forums about how they're going to leave are your die hard fans. They love you. Which brings me neatly to my next point.



Wrong. they do in fact leave, or at least stop paying. think about this; CCP forums are off limits unless you have an active account. This number one rule eliminates people from posting to say what their problem is, if they dont have an account that is paid for, even if they were players in the past. Maybe, just maybe, accounts that have been activated and paid for, but are not currently subscribed, could be limited to 2 posts per week, so they can give feedback..

Even then, people might not use that advantage because, like you said, they are fed up with something and they probably cant be bothered to find whatever method of contacting CCP outside of the forums that might actually reach developers. The forum, if you complain there might be other people to support you and that might actually do something. Otherwise, its like anonymous voting, a time waste. an active account is payed for by month, two months, whatever.


Someone might have paid for a month, finally got fed up, and have 20 days left and be able to use the forum to say why they've given up. Someone might have 2 months left because of GTC, that doesnt mean they will resub. Someone might have longer, even. Unless you've actually tracked "people who leave", and proven your quaint theory of people who whine being eve fanbois, you're just speaking out your two cheeks in your chair.

Just because their desire to keep playing has decreased to below their desire to keep paying, doesnt mean they dont use eve online until the sub runs out. some people have friends in the game. some people want to blow all their ISK on ships to go suicide ganking or go crazy in lowsec.

When the (desire to pay/desire to play) is still at or above 1, they will play and resub. WHen it drops below 1, they have account time left to use as they please, but won't resub. I know its elusive to understand.

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2010.07.01 21:10:00 - [66]
 

Maybe you can take your time also to resolve the matter of the 6 titans which 'magically' returned in game after they got killed in battle?

After all, an answer to this was promised to us already two weeks ago and since then no reply.

And why are the items under investigation still in game and not in custodity until their status is resolved?


This leaves a pretty bad impression to me on the otherwise good CS service.

Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.07.01 22:47:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Gnulpie
Maybe you can take your time also to resolve the matter of the 6 titans which 'magically' returned in game after they got killed in battle?


More like they magically respawned after cynoing out. Then they died, and respawned again.

Gms have been categorically denying any responsibility for anything that happens in 0.0 and haven't been offering support in situations where it was clear that the server was screwed and people just wanted to get to a station and log off. When people experienced the respawn bug in p-2ttl they got more or less politely told to get lost. Dito for all the people who died to blackscreen issues. Or the guys who logged off and then got killed hours later because they never despawned (which also happened in p-2, y-2ano, 6nj...)

Originally by: 1Ekrid1
Wrong. they do in fact leave, or at least stop paying.

Considering the amount of ingame friends who left since Dominion, yes, they do leave. The QEN reflects that pretty nicely if you look at the 0.0 numbers.
The only reason why I came back from being unsubbed is a buddy dragging me into a w-system, as far away from k-space 0.0 as possible. Odds are that once I get bored my accounts will run out again (as a matter of fact, one of my accounts just ran out again and i can't get myself to reactivate).

Blazde
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.07.02 11:39:00 - [68]
 

Edited by: Blazde on 02/07/2010 11:43:05
Thanks for the replies Fate, more communication can never be a bad thing.

Originally by: GM Fate
A recent project that we´re pretty excited about is the „Unhappy Customers“ project

Good stuff. Recognising you have Unhappy Customers and listening to them a bit should be a much more important step imo than tweaking the survey.

Originally by: GM Fate
Well, you only get sent the survey after your petition closes (which it automatically does after a certain period of the player not replying or the GM closing it)

I haven't had the pleasure of petitioning under the new survey yet, but are you sure about this? It used to be you could fill in the survey at any time during the petition, then update it later if you wanted. How that was counted in your stats I don't know, but I once filled the survey in during a petition with a 0 cos I was :mad: and the next GM reply solved my problem right away. Coincidence or not it did get me wondering whether the GM had access to my intermediate survey response and had an incentive to try to get me to change it...

Originally by: GM Fate
I took a look at the statistics and 9 is not rated disproportionately to 8 or 10 so it doesn´t seem like the default value is skewing the data

The problem is it didn't used to have a default of 9. It's not clear as it is what the numbers relate to (should a satisfactory petition be rated 5 average, or 9. Does 10 mean 'no problems here' or does it mean 'I was blown away, I've never experienced CS like this before anywhere'. Does 0 mean 'ragequiting now' or just 'that was no help at all'). By setting the default to 9 you're sending a signal that people should rate around 9 (which doesn't neccesarily mean 9 itself will be overused) unless they have a good reason not to. That's a different signal to when there was no default. It will probably increase the average rating.

As long as you understand that and interpret the data internally with that in mind then it's fine. But if you give us another devblog/fanfest presentation in 6 months time raving about how your average rating has gone up from 6.5 to 8 for example, then you're back where you started. This seems to have been the problem so far: you've misinterpreted your data. To avoid doing that again you have to accept that setting a default response will change the baseline in these figures and your new survey stats won't be comparable to the old ones. Of course splitting it into 3 sections stops them being comparable too.

But it just seems unneccesary to me to set a default. (Also I just noticed if you rate ingame there *isn't* a default, which will confuse your data). As long as you're changing things you'd be better off taking the opportunity to attach more descriptive words to the numbers, eg:

10 Exceptional
8 Good
6 Acceptable
4 Below Average
2 Poor
0 Unacceptable

(Which might have a similar effect to setting a default of 6, but would solve the problem of not knowing what the numbers mean).

Byron D
GoneMental
Posted - 2010.07.02 22:16:00 - [69]
 

Edited by: Byron D on 02/07/2010 22:17:18
The problem is not with the ppl that submit the petitions, the problem is with the veteran player base that doesn't even bother submitting pettitions because they already got used with : "the logs show nothing" and "working as intended", answers that are already part of the eve anecdotal folclore.

Make a survey troughout the playerbase and you'll see that on a scale from 0 to 5 the player base will rate the CS around 2 if not below.

Caladain Barton
Navy of Xoc
The Remnant Legion
Posted - 2010.07.02 22:43:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Byron D
Edited by: Byron D on 02/07/2010 22:17:18
The problem is not with the ppl that submit the petitions, the problem is with the veteran player base that doesn't even bother submitting pettitions because they already got used with : "the logs show nothing" and "working as intended", answers that are already part of the eve anecdotal folclore.

Make a survey troughout the playerbase and you'll see that on a scale from 0 to 5 the player base will rate the CS around 2 if not below.


A quick, dirty, and effective way to do this would be to attach a small SP bonus to any account that filled out the survey. Call it a census, ask a bunch of questions, do a devblog stating how you want people to take it seriously.

Taking a day or couple day's training off people will make every account in eve do it, and tying it to account instead of character prevents spam and will give a more accurate heartbeat result.

Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.07.03 09:09:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Byron D
Make a survey troughout the playerbase and you'll see that on a scale from 0 to 5 the player base will rate the CS around 2 if not below.


Uh, no. If you throw all petitions together, it won't.
If you look at how player demographics rate your petitions, highsec would be rather high-ish, lowsec low-ish, 0.0 negative-ish, since GMs refuse to support 0.0 and are completely blind to the numerous lowsec roe bugs.

Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
Posted - 2010.07.05 21:47:00 - [72]
 

While I was slightly ironic about the matter, the problem with how surveys are rated is probably real. The classic "The Logs show nothing" might be indeed be the problem.

There was a few days ago a discussion about ways to manipulate the client. Examples of such manipulation could involve insta-warp to any object in a solar system, cloaked or not and now the issue of being killed at a (safe)-spot away from any celestial object. Is the one that got you really such an awesome prober that he got you this fast or is he using a manipulated client?

The incident above might be one of the "the logs show nothing-cases"

The other problem is, when GMs are rated poorly by the customer who did not like the (correct) response.

Examples:
GM Gandalf was totally unhelpful. He refused to fix the lag. 0 Points

GM Gandalf did not return me the Mega I have lost while travelling through Rancer. 0 Points.

GM Gandalf refused to undo the market transaction I have made and now I lost billions to a scam. 0 Points.

In all the cases the GM would have refused to give the customer what he wants and acted within the policies made, but that does not help much when the customer wants to get his revenge on the poor customer support with the survey system.


Lederstrumpf
Posted - 2010.07.06 12:32:00 - [73]
 

Edited by: Lederstrumpf on 06/07/2010 12:33:25
With just two open petitions I can not create a third one.

So I'm basically punished twice by the system: Not able to have answers flow prompty - and left alone in the meantime when it comes to ingame harrassment and the like.

I'll repeat: You do block petitions which might come up by technical means!

As it is by design, it's not considered as buggy from bughunter point of view.


Such stuff is why you just FAIL at providing good customer support, no matter what nice statistics you do offer to your management.


John McCreedy
Caldari
Eve Defence Force
Posted - 2010.07.08 11:11:00 - [74]
 

I really hope CCP reads what I'm about to say here because after twelve years of working in a services market, I know a thing or two about customer service. The biggest and most immediate thing you can do to improve Customer Service is for GMs to actually take the time to read what someone as said, rather than skimming it and then replying with a standardised cut and paste reply that does nothing to help. I recently had a situation where a petition was filed and no less than six GMs, including two senior GMs, all replied one after another with a cut and paste reply about clearing the cache despite repeated replys clearly stating this had already been done.

This does not offer good CS because clearly not one of those six GMs bothered to read the previous reply. I've recently had opportunity to play a couple of other MMOs alongside Eve and whilst in terms of game design, not a single one comes close, in terms of Customer Service, each MMO is light years ahead of CCP with GMs that actually read what you say and making personalised replies. The above example I've made is not an isolated incident and has been happening ever since game launch. It's rude, disrespectful to the client (the player filing the petition) and high time it was fixed.

Apple Boy
Gallente
Tri-gun
Auctorita Alliance
Posted - 2010.07.09 16:01:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: John McCreedy
The biggest and most immediate thing you can do to improve Customer Service is for GMs to actually take the time to read what someone as said, rather than skimming it and then replying with a standardised cut and paste reply that does nothing to help. I recently had a situation where a petition was filed and no less than six GMs, including two senior GMs, all replied one after another with a cut and paste reply about clearing the cache despite repeated replys clearly stating this had already been done. [...]
It's rude, disrespectful to the client (the player filing the petition) and high time it was fixed.

this!

Please get rid of c/p replies! They suck. For a lot of the mac stuff I just stopped making petitions because of the crappy replies (including the mail thing where they said clear the cache, but when you read the mac forums you find out it's a bug that clearing the cache doesn't fix...)

to make it even easier, here is the link to the official reply about the bug in question so you can tell your GMs to stop c/p'ing the standard "clear your cache" response to mac users. tia

Gimme Urstuff
Amarr
Iwant Urstuff Corp
Posted - 2010.07.11 11:07:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: GM Fate


Pop-up prompt in-game to fill out survey when any petition is finished, essentially requiring filling out of bubbles before window can be closed.
I definitely think this idea has merit. It would by default vastly improve the response rate. It just has to be weighed against customer inconvenience to see if it would be worth doing or not.


NO NO NO NO NYET NEIN YOU FREAKING BUREAUCRATS!!! No pop ups that have to be done!!! Before I can play the game. Especially NO POP UPS while in space you (insert epithet of your choice) and even more especially NO POP UPS WHILE ENEMIES ARE SHOOTING AT ME!!!! It will definitely spawn another petition and very low ratings after I get blown up and podded, for which I am sure your well trained GM's will use empathy to tell me they will not reimburse my losses. Who came up with this idea anyway?

Evil or Very Mad




Lemming Alav
Posted - 2010.07.13 11:09:00 - [77]
 

I am just gonna say this and then thats it, you just changed your InGame standing system from 10.0 to a 5 choices because the other was to complicated, then you make a new survey and you still have 10 choices.

i belive it was mentioned by previous poster but you need to make it clear what each answer stands for and i would personally prefer
5-great
4-good
3-neutral
2-bad
1-terrible
(remind ya of something?)

2nd the "clear your cache and try again" everytime a GM gives that answer they should be punished with atleast 2 broken fingers, how many problems have this actually resolved ? any? I dont think I have ever heard of anyone actually fixing their problem by doing that other then having to redo all their settings.

also the responses to petitions.

I make an ingame petition, i expect and ingame answer i have several accounts tied to the same email and you dont tell me which account you are talking about when emailing which is deeply frustrating.

EVEmail the character that creates the petition.

how hard can that be?

John McCreedy
Caldari
Eve Defence Force
Posted - 2010.07.13 11:17:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Gimme Urstuff
Originally by: GM Fate


Pop-up prompt in-game to fill out survey when any petition is finished, essentially requiring filling out of bubbles before window can be closed.
I definitely think this idea has merit. It would by default vastly improve the response rate. It just has to be weighed against customer inconvenience to see if it would be worth doing or not.


NO NO NO NO NYET NEIN YOU FREAKING BUREAUCRATS!!! No pop ups that have to be done!!! Before I can play the game. Especially NO POP UPS while in space you (insert epithet of your choice) and even more especially NO POP UPS WHILE ENEMIES ARE SHOOTING AT ME!!!! It will definitely spawn another petition and very low ratings after I get blown up and podded, for which I am sure your well trained GM's will use empathy to tell me they will not reimburse my losses. Who came up with this idea anyway?

Evil or Very Mad




This is also a good point. Please don't introduce pop ups, rather have a notification sent that there's an answer to your petition. It's bad enough having a pop during combat just to tell you that in one hour there will be downtime. Funnily enough, most of us know when downtime is these days Rolling Eyes

Ephemeral Waves
Silver Snake Enterprise
Posted - 2010.07.14 00:34:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: GM Fate
Pop-up prompt in-game to fill out survey when any petition is finished, essentially requiring filling out of bubbles before window can be closed.
I definitely think this idea has merit. It would by default vastly improve the response rate. It just has to be weighed against customer inconvenience to see if it would be worth doing or not.


If a pop-up appeared on my screen in the middle of a fight, you would get a whole lots of "0"'s in customer satisfaction.

Ephemeral Waves
Silver Snake Enterprise
Posted - 2010.07.14 00:40:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Caladain Barton
Originally by: Byron D
Edited by: Byron D on 02/07/2010 22:17:18
The problem is not with the ppl that submit the petitions, the problem is with the veteran player base that doesn't even bother submitting pettitions because they already got used with : "the logs show nothing" and "working as intended", answers that are already part of the eve anecdotal folclore.

Make a survey troughout the playerbase and you'll see that on a scale from 0 to 5 the player base will rate the CS around 2 if not below.


A quick, dirty, and effective way to do this would be to attach a small SP bonus to any account that filled out the survey. Call it a census, ask a bunch of questions, do a devblog stating how you want people to take it seriously.

Taking a day or couple day's training off people will make every account in eve do it, and tying it to account instead of character prevents spam and will give a more accurate heartbeat result.


You missed his point. These vets stopped filling out petitions years ago as they have from long experience learned that they're wastes of time.

Trellish
Blackwater USA Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2010.07.16 17:26:00 - [81]
 

Edited by: Trellish on 16/07/2010 17:45:59
Originally by: CCP Fallout
GMs Ender and Fate update us on the new satisfaction surveys available for petitions in their new dev blog.


CCP fallout

The CSM is absolutely right in saying that there is a sense of disconnect. You guys stated that you were suprised based off of your traditionally high satisfaction rates.

As one of the players who rated you decently high AND feels a sense of disconnect with game support, I can pretty much explain it to you.

Your support is so bad, that after feeling a great sense of frustration during the first year or so of playing, I now simply ignore it.... I pretend it doesn't exist... I write it off. I don't expect anything at all from them other than GM's who don't read your petition, who copy and paste answers which make no sense to the actual question, and who are inconsistent with reimbursement... often ignoring serious issues.

That said, I enjoy your game and plan to continue playing. If I paid any attention to the support issue, I'd become so frustrated I'd emo rage and quit, so since it's possible to ignore the issue, I now do so. (except for those times where it's simply not possible to ignore it) but those I still try to forget fairly quickly. I rarely petition or bug report anymore due to past responses, and on the rare occasions, sometimes rate better, simply because a response was in the realm of the feasible... i.e. it wasn't worse than being put on the rack. That's literally my current expectations, so anyone who beats it gets rated decently.


Quick edit:
If I may be so bold as to make a suggestion - "Currently, about a third of our users fill out the survey. While that‘s statistically significant enough for meaningful data to emerge" You might want to consider that generating this info from surveys following petitions isn't actually generating a statistically significant number, regardless of the percentage, because it automatically biases the information only to those who both made a petition AND who were willing to fill out a survey. It will by definition not represent the population which is frustrated enough to no longer fill out petitions or bug reports.

I'm curious, would you look at your numbers and see if there is a correlations between age in game, and number of petitions filed, excluding "stuck petitions"? Preferrably real age in game... not the age of a young alt, but the date of your first account. I'd be willing to bet that you don't see as many petitions coming from older players... the exact player base you need to be generating info from... those who decided to stay in game longer term.

Trellish
Blackwater USA Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2010.07.18 19:07:00 - [82]
 

by the way, just to be clear...

I'm not trying to troll you or go emo on you by making those "complainy" type of statements.

That's really my experience of the support setup... I'm responding to this thread at all, because several CCP employees have been unusually reasonable in several recent threads, which is giving me hope that perhaps things will improve. I wish I could remember the names offhand, because I do think it's important to mention when someone is doing a good job.

I'm thinking specifically of the recent change in CCP position re: slave controlling via software, where a CCP employee gave us a final ruling that was actually very clear and easy to follow. If you can find that thread, there was an earlier post by another CCP employee which quoted the guidelines as they stood (which had some significant grey) and said there's no problem... completely ignoring the grey issues which were being questioned. Getting real, down to earth answers, that later employee, who who obviously read the thread and thought about the various issues involved, was a serious improvement that actually gives me some hope on this front. Not everyone in the thread was happy with the end result, but I think everyone felt that the issue was actually seriously looked at for once.

Come to think of it, there's at least one other GM whom I've seen make some recent posts who I've not run across in the past, who also gave us the hard and fast info that we actually need/want.

I suppose I do need to give you some credit there, because I'd have to say I've already seen some improvements with some of the newer names... real answers, real info, real communication are pretty much win tbh. None of those newer positive experiences have yet been through the petition system though... which admittedly couldn't really happen because I haven't filed a petition in the timeframes since these names came on board. Perhaps I'll have to give it another try sometime in the future.

Enalurai
Posted - 2010.07.20 18:41:00 - [83]
 

Edited by: Enalurai on 20/07/2010 18:57:40
I completed your survey, expressed my dissatisfaction and provided documentation as well only to be questioned about my answers which were totally explained. The more I read the more apparent it became the GM did not read my response, he/she didn't care.

My greatest gripe: You take forever (more than a week to respond is for ever) to respond and when you do, you don't answeer the question asked but find one of the top five from your list and pick one. That has happened to me alot!!

The one I hate most: "Upon checking our logs" Yeah, right! A zillion players complain about the same issue, your forums are full of complaints about the same issue, yet you cannot find the issue/or that it occurred! Why bother to file another?

My final petition i filed this am. Without looking your response is already read in my head, i know the lie that you will tell and expect me to continue to pay to ignore yet again ccp's refusal to admit errors.

The scenario: i had one set of skillpoints when i logged last nite (yes, i keep a record, been playing with you a while and know I have to or you get away with what you did last nite) 4 million skillpoints short of my clone, woke this am, and could not fly the boat I flew in last nite. Get this: I was not involved in any battle, did not mission, did not loose a ship, merely clone jumped from one station to another !

Bet the GM's response is: While it is regrettable . . . our records show . . . you need to reskill . . .

BS - This is a time sink as it is and this is unacceptable. You expect us to be happy, i will not give above a "0" satisfaction to the gm as it is a pat answer from a sheet that does not address the issue. Your "volunteer" will claim your records are infallible, your equipment beyond repute, and i am defenseless, and will suggest i go play elsewhere if he/she follows normal suite.

That is why your results are skewed. I don't think you really care, and the results that do not support the lie you tell yourselves get tossed.


fyi: 10 = Perfect. May or may not have liked the response, but the gm was professional and actually read my petition
9 = GM and response was ok, but not polite
1 = GM read the petition and gave me a lie anyway and tried to justify it.
0 = GM gave one of the printed responses tht has absolutely nothing to do with my question.



Trouocal
Posted - 2010.07.29 22:29:00 - [84]
 

My experience of petitions are that about 85-90% of them are totally, completely and immediately ignored. Getting just a standard answer that whatever reported is taken seriously and will be investigated and so on, and petition closed. Then weeks and months passes and nothing happens. It's quite frustrating that no one cares. What's petitioned matters a lot to me, but apparently not to the GM's or CCP.
It's also annoying to not get a dialog with the GM's if there's something they need to know in addition to the petition message, how about the GM opening a chat window if something is unclear? nah, never happens, just closing the petition, no actions taken.
Sometimes there's a question added to their answer, but it feels like everything is scripted and lands in trash anyway, the response is typically a standard message, petition closed and it does as usual result in no action taken.
It doesn't feel meaningful to petition, but out of stubborness i keep doing it anyway, haven't given up hope completely yet, but .. meh..
My overall satisfaction with the GM's are so far around 2-5%.

Yeay Fritg
Caldari
Confrerie de Kaedri
Cluster Of Rebirth
Posted - 2010.08.03 13:30:00 - [85]
 

Edited by: Yeay Fritg on 03/08/2010 13:30:43
Hello,

Thank you.

Please launch a poll and let'us rate not the GM player but the bug tracking resolution of CCP. I'm sure you will not have the same results. GM does a good job at their level but the problem is not on the GM level.

I like Eve but it's now stating to be nearly too mutch.

Yeay

Ivan Zhuk
Gallente
1st Steps Academy
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2010.08.06 18:44:00 - [86]
 

I know this thread is old and doubt yall (GM's) still read it but, why not create a one time survey and put it in the Eve News. Players don't have to complete it but its there and some will. This would be a good way to get real feedback from players and then look at the results.

Make it one of those multiple choice surveys.

-Find out where pilots play the game (may operate 50% of time in hisec but the 50% in 0.0 is maybe what they enjoy or vice versa).

-Pull the whole "how happy are you with this in the game?" for different issues or aspects maybe make it 50 questions. Hell almost everyone has just station spinned for 30 min we can answer a survey =P.
--very happy, happy, indifferent, angry, very angry

-Maybe at the bottom ask what a player thinks is the single greatest aspect of eve and then the single worst aspect of eve. I think this would be very good and an eye opener for CCP to realize what we really enjoy and really hate about eve.



Ive seen plenty of players do surveys for random things or maybe just because they wanted waste our times but atleast I know doing a survey for Customer Service isn't going to be a waste of time and atleast will be beneficial. I think yall should also sometimes distinguish between the CS rep handling our situation and the position of the corporation behind them. For instance no one hates a GM for not reimbursing. We take it out on that GM but in reality we hate the fact that we arent being reimbursed for whatever reason.

Anyways that was just my thoughts and I'm personally very glad to see this initiative of answering questions and making the CS team more heard =)

Ivan Zhuk

Pandora's Child
InterMind Unlimited
Posted - 2010.08.07 05:13:00 - [87]
 

CCP should look into customer experience management.

1. Use an intelligent third party to conduct your Surveys. This provides honest and valuable communication on the success of any one survey for a given group.

2. Focus surveys on proven customer retention challenges. Target customers who left to identify key motivating factors.

3. Identify causal player profiles and activities vs vested player profiles and activities. Identify and improve or develop those areas that drive customer retention.

4. As you identify different customer bases you will find the best ways to encourage and promote participation in customer satisfaction process.

5. Customers are not unhappy because their ship gets blown up or the game lags out. Customers are unhappy because of expectations not being met. Any survey program needs to have meaningful, measurable and visible results to the subscribing community at large.

This would be a start. Accomplishing this is probably not something CCP has enough resources to do effectively and is really best handled by companies that specialize.

ctx2007
Minmatar
Wychwood and Wells
Posted - 2010.08.07 18:36:00 - [88]
 

No wonder people dont rate your surveys, i was just looking back over a petition i sent to you in january this year over a lost tengu. It was stated that your database records didnot shown anything wrong with the ship.

The fact the missile range fell short of its bonuses which it should have had because of the subsystems, i lost the ship. The same thing happened again a month later luckly i noticed this when leaving the station i had just transfered ship from a drake both times, so the tengu had the missile stats of a drake resulting in lack of missiles launch rate and velocity for the range.

Too late as that petition had already being closed.

So i did not rate the petition because i was so ****ed off at CCP and the outcome of the petition, because i did not get reimburst when there was a fault with the game

ctx2007

StabHore
Posted - 2010.08.13 23:54:00 - [89]
 

Edited by: StabHore on 13/08/2010 23:55:55
So what do i rate the petitions that idle for a month then just get closed?

Also, it would be nice if the responses from CS actually included something outside of a canned reply. It not very reassuring you are getting a fair shake when the reply you get could have been written by someone who doen't even play eve, know what eve is, or anything about the mechanics of the game.

I actually was looking over my petitions and have 3 replies that are all the same, word for word, for 3 very different situations (one when the server crashed and I was unable to recover my probes and was therefore stuck in a wormhole for 5 days, 1 lagged out during a mission and didin't warp out when client said it was 'in warp' and lost a ship, and one "grid never loaded after jump in and i got ganked". All have the same canned reply.


I'd rather have CS just tell me "I'm closing this petition without reading it, we both know you aren't gonna get anything back, have a nice day" than to bull**** me that he "investigated the issue"

Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey
Mordus Angels
Posted - 2010.08.14 06:16:00 - [90]
 

My single largest complaint has been when a support GM sends me to this forum to suggest a fix for a bug, or even a suggestion.

The support systems IS the first line a player has to identify something is wrong with the game; I'm not talking about complains. So why then does a player have to come to the forums to write up an observation/suggestion only to have it drowned out by 'more attractive posts' never to be seen again.

Give the GM some ability to identify petitions that factor into game correction/development. It only makes sense as possibly the GM has seen 100 other petitions just like it, though it may not be worthy enough to survive a day in the forums.

I'm actually surprised you were surprised by the GSM's comments support is a bone of contention with the players.


Pages: 1 2 [3]

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only