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blankseplocked ban hardwireings next time ?
 
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Seldarine
Minmatar
Super Batungwaa Ninja Warriors
0ccupational Hazzard
Posted - 2010.06.21 12:04:00 - [1]
 

The main problem we had on the finals was the 24 hour clone jump timer, and not being able to just unplug implants and plug in different sets to switch setups out. We were kinda forced into having to stick with that one setup in the final matches because of this.

I think either baning hardwirings, or limiting them in some way could lead to more diversity of setups in the final day and there being less of an isk barrier for some teams.

Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.22 11:55:00 - [2]
 

i agree, currently ISK is way too big a factor in tournament success - even those of us who can afford it aren't necesserily willing to blow 10 billion ISK on each match, potentially requiring three times that much to be ready to switch setups around on finals day..

ban hardwirings, ban 15% ammo, change format so nobody has to fight more than 2 matches in a single day

QwaarJet
Gallente
hirr
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.06.22 12:22:00 - [3]
 

Agreed. Hardwirings were a real problem for us, getting the +5s was just not possible beyond a few important ones.

Viper ShizzIe
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.22 12:27:00 - [4]
 

Allow fitting implants, disallow the rest.

Alsyth
Night Warder
Posted - 2010.06.22 12:35:00 - [5]
 

Agreed.

Because 3 matchs a day mean 1B ISK/player in unplugged hardwirings if you change ships, which is sad.


Allow fitting implants and mindlinks, maybe ?

Shamis Orzoz
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.22 12:39:00 - [6]
 

Hardwirings had no impact on the outcome of 99.9% of matches. Cry more.

Jennifer Celeste
Posted - 2010.06.22 12:59:00 - [7]
 

umad b/c your team lost? yeh....umad

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2010.06.22 13:02:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
Hardwirings had no impact on the outcome of 99.9% of matches. Cry more.


When it comes to crying its REALLY hard to beat you:

Waah waah !

steave435
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.22 13:09:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Viper ShizzIe
Allow fitting implants, disallow the rest.

Allow mind links too, but agree about the rest.

Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises
Babylon Project
Posted - 2010.06.22 13:19:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
Hardwirings had no impact on the outcome of 99.9% of matches. Cry more.


I can see how a team would field ships because of their current hardwiring set, thus impacting the match quite a bit.

You can't really claim it had no impact on (most of) the matches.. I do agree few if any matches (once ships were fielded) were close enough to try and claim a high (if any) impact of hardwiring sets, although again, in a game of chance who knows wether a logistics chain would be broken by enough decent hits on a target due to those percentages..

I defo wouldn't mind seeing the hardwirings dropped, with possibly an exception for fitting implants (no cap implants?).. I could easily see the games still be fun without mindlinks too..

Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.22 13:48:00 - [11]
 

i wouldn't ban mindlinks and yeah fitting implants are probably a good thing for more varied setups


lol @ shamis, maybe your matches weren't decided by implants but you have no way of knowing about everyone else's

Whether or not it was a deciding factor in any one match is in any case irrelevant, simple fact is wealth is way too big an advantage in the current tournament format

what'd your ammo bill end up at btw 10 bil ? more ?

Max Romeo
Posted - 2010.06.22 13:52:00 - [12]
 

No daredevils, dramiels
No ECM
No cap transfers
No hardwires
No mindlinks
No bhaals
No faction ammo
No players over 20mil sp
No alliances over 1 year old

Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.22 14:16:00 - [13]
 

ban max romeos

Si'ren
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2010.06.22 14:42:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
Hardwirings had no impact on the outcome of 99.9% of matches. Cry more.



I can see how someone with a never-ending wallet may think that, but sorry you're very wrong.

Bobbechk
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.22 14:52:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Max Romeo
No daredevils, dramiels
No ECM
No cap transfers
No hardwires
No mindlinks
No bhaals
No faction ammo
No players over 20mil sp
No alliances over 1 year old


No PL

Max Romeo
Posted - 2010.06.22 14:56:00 - [16]
 

ITT : We'll fit up 15bil flagships, but we wont spend a few bil on making sure all of our pilots are in the best state that they can be - it would be unacceptably high risk as the chance the flagship dies is so incredibly small. Instead we would like lower damage, less showy fights. CO2 should also not bring Freki's as they cost a lot and we cant buy them at every 2nd station.

[strikeout]Oh wait no, EVE is about risk vs. reward.[/strikeout] I mean EVE is about METAGAMINGTwisted EvilTwisted EvilTwisted EvilTwisted EvilTwisted Evil

That said, perhaps the fancier faction ammo should have their drop rates changed to be rare... but not that rare.


Si'ren
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2010.06.22 15:03:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Max Romeo
ITT : We'll fit up 15bil flagships, but we wont spend a few bil on making sure all of our pilots are in the best state that they can be - it would be unacceptably high risk as the chance the flagship dies is so incredibly small. Instead we would like lower damage, less showy fights. CO2 should also not bring Freki's as they cost a lot and we cant buy them at every 2nd station.

[strikeout]Oh wait no, EVE is about risk vs. reward.[/strikeout] I mean EVE is about METAGAMINGTwisted EvilTwisted EvilTwisted EvilTwisted EvilTwisted Evil

That said, perhaps the fancier faction ammo should have their drop rates changed to be rare... but not that rare.




to give you a better perspective, the VOLTRON team had around 7 bil(afaik) in implants for our finals setup. just 1 setup.


Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2010.06.22 15:12:00 - [18]
 

And by that time our flagship was already dismantled iirc ;p

Pilk
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2010.06.22 15:15:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
ban 15% ammo

Do you mean 20%? 15% is Navy, which is not expensive (well, okay, it ain't free, but you'd be hard-pressed to spend half a billion on it even if you went all the way to the finals). I could agree with banning 20% ammo, though I'd make an exception for flagships.

Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
change format so nobody has to fight more than 2 matches in a single day

Obviously not really possible for the finals, right? Or is there a way to do this while still maintaining an overall bracket format?

Originally by: Alsyth
Because 3 matchs a day mean 1B ISK/player in unplugged hardwirings if you change ships, which is sad.

Ha! Based on those prices, you clearly haven't been using any Pashan or Shaqil implants.

--

At the risk of dredging up feelings about the existence of flagships in the first place--should flagship pilots be allowed unrestricted hardwires? What about pirate sets?

--P

Ohne
Minmatar
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.22 15:19:00 - [20]
 

Even though hardwirings have little or no effect on the actual matches I can understand that people would like to have them banned. The fitting hardwirings are pretty cool though.

Changing the final day is stupid though, people should have prepared before the final day and try to design concepts that might come in handy. Logistics and thinking on the spot is just what you need to win the tourney imo.

Max Romeo
Posted - 2010.06.22 15:31:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Si'ren

to give you a better perspective, the VOLTRON team had around 7 bil(afaik) in implants for our finals setup. just 1 setup.



Because you already knew what you'd need to field at the last match... down to the hardwires? please, metagame more, maybe then you'd have used pimp implants sooner and ~owned everything~.

Next thing : AT players get fresh SiSi accounts with all V skills and implants disabled, all the faction ammo on sisi removed, the ships only cost 100 isk... there's no isk barrier!

I'VE SOLVED IT ALL (Except that you will be back here crying about 100isk per unit of ammo and metagaming next year derp derp derp)

Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.22 15:35:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk on 22/06/2010 15:39:36

Yeah i meant 20% hurrrrr, don't agree format can't be changed to get around 4 matches on finals day, there's lots of ways around it - i for one would prefer to skip qualifiers and just do single elimination all the way if it meant you had more time between matches on finals day..

@ Ohne so if your team has 7% rof implants and +20% dmg ammo it makes no difference vs a team with 3% and 15% ammo ? Riiiight clearly your team spent all those extra billions just for the hell of it and not to get every single advantage you could

Originally by: Pilk
At the risk of dredging up feelings about the existence of flagships in the first place--should flagship pilots be allowed unrestricted hardwires? What about pirate sets?


don't care about flagships really - pirate implants probly won't be allowed ever because they make for less interesting tournament, i see zero reason to have different implant rules for flagship pilots, doesn't make their explosions prettier or more expensive

Andrea Griffin
Posted - 2010.06.22 15:37:00 - [23]
 

I see two schools of thought here.

1. Implants, with jump clone timers, are part of your overall strategy and you should learn to manage it. This is the one I subscribe to. Can you not use different pilots for different matches?

2. Matches should not be forced to be built around pilots and their current implants. Maybe CCP can clear the jump clone timers for each pilot after every match. This allows for more dynamism in fleet configuration and allows smaller groups to be more competitive since they have a smaller pilot pool.

MissBolyai
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.22 15:38:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
Yeah i meant 20% hurrrrr, don't agree format can't be changed to get around 4 matches on finals day, there's lots of ways around it - i for one would prefer to skip qualifiers and just do single elimination all the way if it meant you had more time between matches on finals day..

@ Ohne so if your team has 7% rof implants and +20% dmg ammo it makes no difference vs a team with 3% and 15% ammo ? Riiiight clearly your team spent all those extra billions just for the hell of it and not to get every single advantage you could


Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.22 15:41:00 - [25]
 

yeah PL following the rules is totally cheating and homo
you're not a cretin at all, keep up the good posting

MissBolyai
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.22 15:45:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: MissBolyai on 22/06/2010 15:48:47
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
yeah PL following the rules is totally cheating and homo
you're not a cretin at all, keep up the good posting
I just like the pic.

Max Romeo
Posted - 2010.06.22 15:46:00 - [27]
 

Hey next year you can cry about PL using those strange faction drones... but don't forget about metagaming, its still the biggest reason for a win. The year after that maybe you can spice it up and complain about pilot skillpoints and comms latency.

Couldn't we just ask for a ban on anyone taking AT as srs.biz? I'm sick of people taking things seriously and doing their best. I mean it sickens me that people would want to keep an advantage over others in a game, sickens me right to the core. Hey VOLTRONZ, ASMBL sum mad iskies next time brah?

Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.22 15:56:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: MissBolyai
Why are you so hostile? It wasn't even us that put you into the hurt locker.


Why am I hostile ? Because your post says I called PL cheaters and I don't like trolls putting words in my mouth (especially ones I don't agree with and never said)
Quote:

You guys only had 2 matches on the last day anyhow. Not a lot of ammo.


Only two hours between the two is what I have a problem with, gets worse the farther you advance as you can see from Hydra's abysmal choice of strats in the finals.

Ohne
Minmatar
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.22 16:02:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk on 22/06/2010 15:39:36

Yeah i meant 20% hurrrrr, don't agree format can't be changed to get around 4 matches on finals day, there's lots of ways around it - i for one would prefer to skip qualifiers and just do single elimination all the way if it meant you had more time between matches on finals day..

@ Ohne so if your team has 7% rof implants and +20% dmg ammo it makes no difference vs a team with 3% and 15% ammo ? Riiiight clearly your team spent all those extra billions just for the hell of it and not to get every single advantage you could

Originally by: Pilk
At the risk of dredging up feelings about the existence of flagships in the first place--should flagship pilots be allowed unrestricted hardwires? What about pirate sets?


don't care about flagships really - pirate implants probly won't be allowed ever because they make for less interesting tournament, i see zero reason to have different implant rules for flagship pilots, doesn't make their explosions prettier or more expensive


Regarding the final day, I just think it adds more fun into it having to be prepared and ready for all those matches and having little time to think.

Also, while ammo and hardwirings do help out, most of the matches come down to mobility and ew. Beeing in range, beein able to hit or lock are the things that most of the matches boil down to. I wouldnt have any problem with hardwirings and faction ammo taken out of the equation but implants and faction ammo wouldnt have changed the outcome in any of our matches in both AT7 and AT8 (except there might be a slight chance in the atlas match that faction torpedos helped, but ofcourse I cant say for sure).

Zenst
Hall Of Flame
Chain of Chaos
Posted - 2010.06.22 16:20:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Seldarine
The main problem we had on the finals was the 24 hour clone jump timer, and not being able to just unplug implants and plug in different sets to switch setups out. We were kinda forced into having to stick with that one setup in the final matches because of this.

I think either baning hardwirings, or limiting them in some way could lead to more diversity of setups in the final day and there being less of an isk barrier for some teams.


Rolling Eyes Why do you mention this after the event, things not work out for you - allow me to explain.

This is an alliance tournement - ALLIANCE. A ALLIANCE is made up of several corps and as such has a large pool of player to draw from. Now if your whole stratergy resolves around having the same 10 people in every fight it is an extreemly safe bet that you are either:

1) Realy a corp pretending to be an alliance

2) Unprepared

3) Both of the above.

As mentioned this is an ALLIANCE tournement not a fixed 10 man event.

So in all honestly anybody sad enough to agree with you after the event has taken part is frankly a cry baby as you all knew the rules before it started, you know whats involved and after like 8 of them I'd think playing a sore loser now is so lamentably late in the day, its pathetic. Had you raised this prior to the event when the rules were first published THEN I would of accepted your input as a valid comment but after the whole event has transpired - the 8th alliance tournement and you have the ordacidy to troll it with some perverse perception of it being a 10 man click group of ego's is frankly....well i expected better from you Sir, truely Crying or Very sad

Now if you care to raise the point of a 10 man fixed team/ship tournement and see how that floats then best of luck to you; But it would make for a boring match and also remove so much planning that strategicly it would be utterly spastasizzed into something nobody would care for.

If you still feel that srtongly about this then - organise your own event and dont compete in a alilance tournement were you have the blinkered perception that you can only pick 10 people when you can pick anybody in your whole alliance for any of the match's and certainly dont go crying about such matters after you have had your ass's handed too you.


BOTTOM LINE HAD YOU WON YOU WOULD NOT BE MAKING THIS POST AND YOU UTTERLY KNOW I'M RIGHT


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