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blankseplocked [suggestion] next year, can we have a major and minor league?
 
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Helicity Boson
Amarr
The Python Cartel.
The Defenders of Pen Island
Posted - 2010.06.21 10:05:00 - [1]
 

Just a thought,

maybe next year we could run a major and minor league competition. perhaps with some form of skillpoint cap.

I'm pretty sure there are a lot of teams that would have liked to play, or try to, but have no hopes of competing with maxed out, incredibly wealthy teams that are coming back for their 5th tourney or the like.

I dont know if the expenses could be spared for it, but I personally think it could be a good laugh :)


Raimo
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2010.06.21 10:24:00 - [2]
 

SP caps just wouldn't work

Helicity Boson
Amarr
The Python Cartel.
The Defenders of Pen Island
Posted - 2010.06.21 10:37:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Raimo
SP caps just wouldn't work


probably not, make a suggestion as to how to sort out who goes in which league then? :)


So Sensational
Ministry of War
Posted - 2010.06.21 10:43:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Helicity Boson
Originally by: Raimo
SP caps just wouldn't work


probably not, make a suggestion as to how to sort out who goes in which league then? :)



Cash based. No T2 mods, no T2 ships.

King Gore
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2010.06.21 10:46:00 - [5]
 

Capital Fights?

groapadegunoi
Posted - 2010.06.21 11:11:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: groapadegunoi on 21/06/2010 11:11:29
here's a thought:
hold the qualifiers as normal then on the finals split the tourney between 2 leagues:
the 16 winning teams from the first final round become the majors and the 16 loosing teams become the minors. So they slug it out like normal except there is also some sort of prize for the winner of the minors.
just my 2 isk

DanMart
Posted - 2010.06.21 11:13:00 - [7]
 

World cup format,

Hold qualifiers (to gain enter to the main event?) no random pull a ticket out the hat and less tears to collect.

(Small prizes for teams that gain qualification) (Medals, Isk or even a flagship hull? that has to be played in the tourney at least once?)

*Pre-main event friendly's*

Main Event

Group stages seeded by performance in qualification. (More matches equals more fun!)

Then a last 16 knockout for the two top teams in each of the group stages.(to determine a winner)

It would allow far more entries. you can control how many teams take part in the group stages by having more qualifiers.

Rebecca Aventine
Posted - 2010.06.21 13:16:00 - [8]
 

A T1 League could be fun. All T1 ships, all meta 0 fittings.

Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2010.06.21 13:30:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Rebecca Aventine
A T1 League could be fun. All T1 ships, all meta 0 fittings.
Excellent idea.

Dibsi Dei
Salamyhkaisten kilta
Posted - 2010.06.21 13:52:00 - [10]
 

The fleet stabber / navy vexor tournament was the most fun to watch. Cool

Less battlecruisers moar cruisers tbh.

Ohne
Minmatar
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.21 14:15:00 - [11]
 

What about allowing only T1 hulls? (and maby disallow hardwirings aswell)

Could be a lot of fun, I think it would be a bit too much to disallow T2 mods however and Its not like they are too expensive.

Master Technique
Club Bear
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2010.06.21 21:50:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Ohne
What about allowing only T1 hulls? (and maby disallow hardwirings aswell)

Could be a lot of fun, I think it would be a bit too much to disallow T2 mods however and Its not like they are too expensive.


This seems more reasonable.

Bobby Byrde
Gallente
Quantum Horizons
Posted - 2010.06.22 00:32:00 - [13]
 

Soooo... PL in the majors and every other alliance in eve in the minors?

Yeah, sounds reasonable Laughing


Thresh Avery
Best Path Inc.
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2010.06.22 01:11:00 - [14]
 

Realistically, the teams in the minor league bracket for finals would be terrible and it will only take one "HYDRA" to purposefully lose in order to make themselves eligible for the minor league so they can win easily, and thus get prizes and such easier.

iQpheonex
Posted - 2010.06.22 01:55:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Thresh Avery
Realistically, the teams in the minor league bracket for finals would be terrible and it will only take one "HYDRA" to purposefully lose in order to make themselves eligible for the minor league so they can win easily, and thus get prizes and such easier.


would take two hydra's imo

Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
draketrain
Posted - 2010.06.22 08:47:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Laechyd Eldgorn on 22/06/2010 08:47:16
minor league = only tech 1 cruisers and smaller t1 mods etc.

might be funny.

edit: or maybe there could be also bc's for gang mods

Andrea Griffin
Posted - 2010.06.22 15:04:00 - [17]
 

It would be entertaining to have a few 'fun format' games with limited participants, perhaps just 8 alliances (or corporations) in each.

Frigate Only, T1 Only, perhaps that mining competition that they ran at one of the Fan Fests a while back.

These could be done throughout the week with the Main Event on the weekends, or during the AT itself to fill in gaps between matches and whatnot... Although I would hate to lose Amamake Cam!

Flying ZombieJesus
Posted - 2010.06.22 17:54:00 - [18]
 

When I first read the topic I thought it would be a good idea, but how do you prevent, say, the 2nd or 3rd favourites from entering the 'newbie' tourney and crushing opposition?

Using the same point format, you reduce the max amount of points fielded for the other tourney - Say 50 or 60 points max instead of 100, maybe a 'no battleship' clause.

Someone wants to field a rook? Sure, thats like what, 16 points? So they could still field 3 rooks... and maybe an atron ;)

I would also divvy it up so that each tier of each class is worth a different amount of points - BC/Cruisers/frigs.

I dont like the T1 ships / T1 mods, however, as that will stifle creativity and possibilities. I think it would work if you stopped the team from overwhelmingly fielding T2 setups due to point limitations.

As for prizes you couldn't include any "new" ships like the top tourney gives out. I would suggest a non-expensive prize such as a relatively small amount of isk (10 bil?) and maybe some ingame ships.

I would also give the first and second place winners of the 'lower' tourney a free ticket to compete in the higher tourney the next season.

And one last thing - each alliance can only compete in one version. You can apply to get into both (im assuming the random/chance/raffle methods), but if you're picked in both, you can only accept one. This will allow the smaller alliances have a better chance of competing against similarly sized and skilled alliances instead of PL's 'B' team.

Wild Rho
Amarr
Silent Core
Posted - 2010.06.22 18:03:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Rebecca Aventine
A T1 League could be fun. All T1 ships, all meta 0 fittings.


That would be pretty awesome.

The'Best Hellfury
Incura
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2010.06.22 18:05:00 - [20]
 

You guys do realize that PL and Hydra would kick everybody's asses just as much with t1 fit t1 cruisers as they would with anything else, right?

Ohne
Minmatar
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.22 18:06:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: The'Best Hellfury
You guys do realize that PL and Hydra would kick everybody's asses just as much with t1 fit t1 cruisers as they would with anything else, right?


But in a less expensive way, thats why I am all for it Wink

Flying ZombieJesus
Posted - 2010.06.22 19:37:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: The'Best Hellfury
You guys do realize that PL and Hydra would kick everybody's asses just as much with t1 fit t1 cruisers as they would with anything else, right?


Unless they weren't allowed to enter because they were going for the big prize.

I also think that you could pre-record the 'little' tourny with maybe one commentator who's trying to get experience to comment on the big one, and show those clips during the lulls that were normally filled with mindless banter about resists not mattering

Valadeya uthanaras
GK inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.22 19:37:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Valadeya uthanaras on 22/06/2010 20:00:34
Edited by: Valadeya uthanaras on 22/06/2010 19:38:39
Well here a few sudgestion I can give out, considering I took an active part in this tournemant:

1. reduce point cost of t1 cruiser ( down to 8 points) at 9 point there was no reason to field 4 t1 cruiser vs 6 bomber ( bomber cost is fine )

2. reduce point cost of navy cruiser ( down to 11 points ) they give a conterpart to tier1 Bcruiser with relativly similar performance

3. reduce point cost of t1 battleship ( down to 17 points )

4. increase cost of t3 to 17 points ( to make for their insane versatility)

5. Make Tracking disruptor, sensor dampeners, target painters and ECM restricted to their specific racial hull ( crucifier(t2)/arbitrator(t2) , maulus(t2)/celestis(t2), griffin(t2)/blackbird(t2)scorpion(t2), vigil(t2)/belliciose(t2)...and all the t3 with the respective subsytem:

the high effectiveness of these EWAR on ships other than their specefic haul justified their use everywhere and made for really boring matches in most cases their were used, in total opposition to their relative use on tranquility ... like 4 damps myrms)

this could be an incentive to field ships like the lachesis, the celestis, the arbitrator and many other that were not seen during the tournemant because of the extremly low drawback of using them on other haul

this could also justify the use by teams of other kind of "ewar" drones to go around that restriction, making the apparition of "hopefully" TD and damps drone Very Happy

6. Ban all implants, including hardwiring, permit the usage of drugs (to be taken in arena system, with their massive drawback Twisted Evil )

7. Ban all faction ammunition, allow t1 and t2 only



And a personal one that I think would be interresting:

8. find a way to permit cloaking in the arena, so there is reason to use falcons, pilgrims, or black ops (if only for the initial warpin and inside limited timeframe like 15 secs) with a way for gm/evetv crew to have a good look at them to make sure they respect the rules

Lady Karma
Posted - 2010.06.22 19:48:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Valadeya uthanaras


8. find a way to permit cloaking in the arena, so there is reason to use falcons, pilgrims, or black ops (if only for the initial warpin and inside limited timeframe like 15 secs) with a way for gm/evetv crew to have a good look at them to make sure they respect the rules


I lol'd in rl

Valadeya uthanaras
GK inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.22 20:11:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Lady Karma
Originally by: Valadeya uthanaras


8. find a way to permit cloaking in the arena, so there is reason to use falcons, pilgrims, or black ops (if only for the initial warpin and inside limited timeframe like 15 secs) with a way for gm/evetv crew to have a good look at them to make sure they respect the rules


I lol'd in rl


during the tournement, we say many match being a combo of web + damps , making it not only very boring, but also without any real counter, beside your own web + damps

if cloak are restricted to a 15 sec timeframe where at each 15 sec of the match , a "pulse" uncloak every ship in the arena, we could have seen match were, as a counter to the web/damp team , a team would have brought 3 panthers.

At the start of the fight, mwd/claok them at oppossing team , get uncloak after 15 sec by the pulse, ( and relativly close to your opponents, lock and start slugging at them damps ships) if the opponent is slighly wise, he can in the mean time switch from range dam to scan res damps, and make if extra long for the panthers to lock, and have the web/damps ships move out

in all case, way more dynamic that some of the match we seen ^^

Lady Karma
Posted - 2010.06.22 21:53:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Lady Karma on 22/06/2010 22:18:17
ok, I'll bite.

You are suggesting that you can field a team that wont all die in seconds while leaving out 3 black ops BS worth of points at the start. You are also suggesting that a Black ops BS is somehow more useful than a BS with a cloak. (there is a reason why the role of blackops BS on TQ is to be a bridge for bombers)

The finals were over in a flash, I didn't see any problem with damps or webs.

Cloaking ships in the tourney would be hilarious. At any moment now, one of the bombers from team A may decloak, and try to get close enough to team B's pilgrim to delcloak it.

Do you realise that the only advantage of covert recons is that they can WARP cloaked...you can fit a cloak to anything. There is a massive trade off in effectiveness for this ability that can't be used in the arena. The curse has range bonus on nuets, the huginn does far more dps and the rook jamms further and does more dps.

Have you ever been in a gang where you wished the FC said, ok guys half the gang cloak, and slow boat to hostiles, we'll sit here and get killed, you guys can then uncloak in a sec and see how you get on, on your own. We will give them a 2:1 advantage for 15 secs to see how they do.

I'm missing the point of your rapier falcon pilgrim set up or I'm being trolled

Obyrith
Posted - 2010.06.22 22:17:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: groapadegunoi
here's a thought:
hold the qualifiers as normal then on the finals split the tourney between 2 leagues:
the 16 winning teams from the first final round become the majors and the 16 loosing teams become the minors. So they slug it out like normal except there is also some sort of prize for the winner of the minors.
just my 2 isk
The prize would have to be similarly minor league, yor I guarantee you some one would underperform on purpose so they could get into the minor league and wtfpwn all the genuinely casual teams,creating exactly the same problem in the tournament now.

Flossing
Flush Gordon and The Toilet Ducks of Death
Posted - 2010.06.22 22:30:00 - [28]
 

a 1.6m sp cap. so people would have to have specific character to play in it,but also wouldnt take much to train one (due to double sp bonus).
would be kinda real screwy and fun lots of planing from day one etc.


Mr Rive
Black Omega Security
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.22 23:17:00 - [29]
 

Skillpoints are only important up to a point. I agree that being able to pick out from a huge choice of level 5 players gives us an advantage, as does the amount of isk we put into it, but i dont think a major and minor league would work.

I can confidently say that we would have won this tourney with un maxed out chars playing, without the expensive ammo and implants. At the end it comes down to two things, the practice you put in, and the setups that you produce.

You can put as much isk/skillpoints into the tourney as you like, but if someone comes up with a better setup and invests more time in practice than yourself, you might just end up getting beaten by a bunch of thoraxes.

At the moment in these tournaments the alliances you would call 'major league' are the ones that invest time into their teams. You will have exactly the same circumstances if you make two different leagues in my opinion.

Hyveres
Caldari
Resilience.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.06.23 06:41:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Hyveres on 23/06/2010 06:41:57
You are aware that any team from an older alliance with more than a few hundred members should easily be able to match PL iskwise in any tournament assuming the tournament team has the backing of the alliance as a whole?

Skillwise and FCwise.. is different ofc but matching them economicly shouldnt really be a problem for alliances with multiple supercapitals.


 

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