open All Channels
seplocked EVE Alliance Tournament Discussion
blankseplocked [Request for AT9 format change] - time between matches on finals day
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic

Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.20 21:44:00 - [1]
 

Can you guys please change it so one doesn't have 3 matches spread over 3 weeks and then 4 matches on the final day (if you make it to finals).

It's really really uncool only having 1-2 hours to prepare for your next match ;P I'm guessing that's why the finals match was so uninteresting - you can't really change it up or properly prepare for your next matches if you have no time to change implants / brainstorm counters etc

Props to PL for being able to do it, Hydra obviously couldn't since they used the same setup several matches in a row, i'm sure hydra would never have brought it to finals again if they'd had time to think about it.

Great job on the tourney this year tho, quite impressed with the commitment, preparation and ISK a lot of teams spent on it and the job CCP did.

:emo tyrrax out until next time:

Zervun
Amarr
hirr
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.06.20 21:50:00 - [2]
 

Considering Dystopia's main tactic was to run away. How much time do you really need to prepare?

CCP Mindstar

Posted - 2010.06.20 21:51:00 - [3]
 

4 matches in 1 day is just what it takes to win. Evil or Very Mad

mazzilliu
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.20 21:52:00 - [4]
 

everyone has to deal with the same junk so its fair, its just fine.

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2010.06.20 21:52:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 20/06/2010 21:52:44
Considering MM main tactic was dying in a fire and you had 1 week i dunno if it would help you any bit. But for other teams - it would surely help a little.

EDIT:
also its evening here and i just ate my breakfast ;p

darius mclever
Posted - 2010.06.20 21:53:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Zervun
Considering Dystopia's main tactic was to run away. How much time do you really need to prepare?


Let me quickly check Morsus Mihi's performance on sunday ...

Viper ShizzIe
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.20 21:58:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Zervun
Considering Dystopia's main tactic was to run away. How much time do you really need to prepare?


It's lucky you didn't lose to our t1 cruisers on the first day of qualifying or you'd look like an idiot.

Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.20 21:59:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: CCP Mindstar
4 matches in 1 day is just what it takes to win. Evil or Very Mad


Do you realize how much ISK that is in 5% implants if you want to change your setup at all between matches and still take it as seriously as PL ? ;P

The current 4 matches in one day format is why the finals match was so ridiculously uninteresting this time, hydra didn't have time to change their setup to something that'd provide a decent match..

Yeah PL are amazing for being able to pull it off, good for them but it makes the tournament worse.

Zervun
Amarr
hirr
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.06.20 22:00:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: darius mclever
Originally by: Zervun
Considering Dystopia's main tactic was to run away. How much time do you really need to prepare?


Let me quickly check Morsus Mihi's performance on sunday ...


True, true, RAWR have a truly awful track history at recent AT's. The only conditions that RAWR could gain any decent progress within an AT is to heavily outnumber the opposition, or lag the opposing team out for a few minutes at the start of each match. Basically recreate the conditions where we PVP in everyday. So using every other major alliance as the yard stick, yup, we suck in so many ways during ATs.

Still does not temper my opinion that Dystopia made it further than they should of.


Strazdas Unstoppable
Posted - 2010.06.20 22:01:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk

The current 4 matches in one day format is why the finals match was so ridiculously uninteresting this time, hydra didn't have time to change their setup to something that'd provide a decent match..

Yeah PL are amazing for being able to pull it off, good for them but it makes the tournament worse.

considering hydra were first of semifinals nad pl were second, pl acutally had even less time to pull it off and yet they did.

Abrazzar
Posted - 2010.06.20 22:04:00 - [11]
 

I think it's a matter of pre-preparing ships, implants and setups far before the tournament even starts and then only needing to pick and choose from what is available. Then again, I don't know what I'm talking about. Very Happy

Mr Rive
Black Omega Security
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.20 22:04:00 - [12]
 

The only reason we can bring different setups is that we have the isk to be able to blow on multiple setups and fits and implants.

TBH i dont think this is fair, especially to smaller alliances, can you not just split them over 2 days?

darius mclever
Posted - 2010.06.20 22:05:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Zervun
Still does not temper my opinion that Dystopia made it further than they should of.


They had some nice setups in the first days. rolling over an angel fit with caldari blaster boats was fun to watch.

And on your list for MM winning you forgot dropping titans and motherships into gate fights. ;)
But maybe you learned from this week ...

Leahcim Eclectic
Posted - 2010.06.20 22:10:00 - [14]
 

I don't think the OP is saying it's more or less fair for any team in particular.....but that giving more time between matches would allow ALL the teams to be able to field a more competitive team therefore making the matches better...

I don't know if it's true or not, but I think that's more in line with what the OP was saying..


Peace Out
Irie Forever
-L

Obyrith
Posted - 2010.06.20 22:11:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Obyrith on 20/06/2010 22:13:35

CCP could make this easier for everyone by banning all implants and having everyone play in free blank clones provided by the tournament system.

All skill hardwirings do is make the tournament even more dependant on money than it is already while adding nothing to the tactics or the value of matches as entertainment. There's little consistency in allowing hardwiring that boosts one attribute while disallowing pirate implants that boost another.

Wraith Soulsark
Amarr
Pelican.
Veneratio Venator Alliance
Posted - 2010.06.20 22:21:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Obyrith
Edited by: Obyrith on 20/06/2010 22:13:35

CCP could make this easier for everyone by banning all implants and having everyone play in free blank clones provided by the tournament system.


I like that idea



Lucius Voltar
Gallente
The ArchAngel Vanguard
Posted - 2010.06.20 22:21:00 - [17]
 

Well to be fair your all in the same boat... You should have a few fits set up and ready to go whether it be on alt char's or other guys in the alliance on standby... as for counters... as you dont *know* what your opponent is going to bring (Unless your PL) you don't know a counter you have to guess, but that comes to research on your opponent as the tournament progresses.

Hydra were unfortunate to of lost with a set up that did work, but that was the price they paid for bringing the same set up as did circle for bringing their freki set up again... If nobody has learnt from PL about keep changing it from match to match (even if alternating between 4 or 5 setups) and predicting what a alliance has used in the past... and can't keep up with the increasing pace... then they don't deserve to win. Props to those that made it into the tournament and got to the finals at whatever stage, but frankly if PL can do it everyone else can, no change required.

Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
Can you guys please change it so one doesn't have 3 matches spread over 3 weeks and then 4 matches on the final day (if you make it to finals).

It's really really uncool only having 1-2 hours to prepare for your next match ;P I'm guessing that's why the finals match was so uninteresting - you can't really change it up or properly prepare for your next matches if you have no time to change implants / brainstorm counters etc

Props to PL for being able to do it, Hydra obviously couldn't since they used the same setup several matches in a row, i'm sure hydra would never have brought it to finals again if they'd had time to think about it.

Great job on the tourney this year tho, quite impressed with the commitment, preparation and ISK a lot of teams spent on it and the job CCP did.

:emo tyrrax out until next time:

Gorjer
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2010.06.20 22:23:00 - [18]
 

I like the super-stressful last day..

Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.20 22:30:00 - [19]
 

What makes you think everyone else can ? Not every group has 700 billion ISK just lying around in their executor's wallet ;P

Sure majority of alliances have enough ISK/rich potential contributors to drop 10 billion ISK on every single match, but I don't think they should have to to be on an equal footing..

But what I hate most about the mere 1-2 hours between matches is not having time to really think, evaluate, plan..
Yeah no implants would make it somewhat easier, but it'd still suck for the vast majority of teams, lots of added stress, less varied setups and worse matches as a result.

sakana
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.06.20 22:31:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk


Props to PL for being able to do it, Hydra obviously couldn't since they used the same setup several matches in a row, i'm sure hydra would never have brought it to finals again if they'd had time to think about it.



they said that they did consider bringing a different setup, but chose not to, so..




Lucius Voltar
Gallente
The ArchAngel Vanguard
Posted - 2010.06.20 22:48:00 - [21]
 

Yeah I don't think much of the no implants thing either... I mean purely on a flagship point of view, why use a faction battleship without the implants to back it up let alone the isk involved in some of those flagships.

If I'm not mistaken though Tyrrax, if you take Hydra for example they haven't feilded vastly expensive ships thier last setup there are many pilots on TQ using those ships, perhaps thats why they fell short in the end because of the lack of ISK invested in them who knows... but I agree it doesn't have to be an equal footing... doesn't however mean its not an equal footing on the timing of these matches.

It's not a game of chess after all so taking your time isn't viable as CCP is trying to do this as a broadcast for the majority of eve players not just those partaking, which also includes all the effort put in by the staff to get the tournament going for 3 consecutive weeks... a 4th which would be needed for more time would cost a far lot more.

Theres basically 2 ways to compete... be unpredictable and hope that your fit (as good as it may be) is the right one for the job and nothing like what you've used previously... or you try to predict what your contenders are going to use and hope your right without been esentially bluffed.

What happens, happens... I think it worked well... the stronger teams and/or fits won as far as they could until one won... don't get me wrong I'm no PL fan... but they deserved it every bit and had the same time as anyone else, same preperation (even though training was limited more so on the test server). It's just the way things go... and im babbling so It's time for me to go :)

well played to all and better luck next year to those that didn't quite get there.

~LV~

Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.20 22:48:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk on 20/06/2010 22:58:43
Originally by: sakana
they said that they did consider bringing a different setup, but chose not to, so..


A foolish decision, and one I for one think they would not have made with a few more hours to decide.
maybe they just didn't care since they were guaranteed 50 unique frigates anyway ;P or maybe they were too cheap to rip their 5% implants out.

Should've been obvious to them how poor their chances of victory were using that strat the third time in a row against a team as good as PL

anyways I think it would've been a much more interesting match if they'd had more time

Originally by: Lucius Voltar
doesn't however mean its not an equal footing on the timing of these matches.


Actually it does mean that, no time between matches makes for an extremely uneven footing if one team is hilariously wealthy and the other is on a budget, it'd take me about 7 matches to run out of liquid ISK if i spent 10 bil on each one, it'd take Shamis 70, this effects how much each of us is willing to spend to improve chances of victory..

As for CCP's reasons for it, i understand them I'm simply asking them to change the format in some way to make finals day less of a bi tch - f.i. you could change the qualifiers to single elimination, one loss and you're out, or you could have finals weekend start on friday instead of saturday, with advance notice competitors should be able to take a single workday off ;P (or quit their jobs like verone)

Lucius Voltar
Gallente
The ArchAngel Vanguard
Posted - 2010.06.20 23:21:00 - [23]
 

and props to verone for doing that btw, fully understand what he was talking about when he first mentioned it :)

I see what your saying mate, just not sure what CCP can do... I mean if it was single elimination... you get one set up, one chance... if anyone in your team screws up or your fit is leaked your screwed... as some of todays finalists for example didn't make their first match.

I don't know perhaps the qualifiers been restricted more on time... starting earlier.... flagships restricted to finals... BAN THE DRAKE (just for verone and CCP), perhaps heavier points on the ships known for tanking heavier as opposed to those that fill Ewar or pure damage, like the marauders tend to be.

we'll have to see what claw comes up with next time. If you want shorter matches... just launch a bomb at claw... ops someone tried that :P

Elyseum
Posted - 2010.06.21 01:31:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk


Yeah PL are amazing for being able to pull it off, good for them but it makes the tournament worse.


when are you going to stop pretending that you aren't a PL alt ?

Hans Jeschonnek
Posted - 2010.06.21 01:36:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Elyseum
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk


Yeah PL are amazing for being able to pull it off, good for them but it makes the tournament worse.


when are you going to stop pretending that you aren't a PL alt ?


When he can win a tournament.

Anonymous Player
Posted - 2010.06.21 02:00:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Lucius Voltar
Well to be fair your all in the same boat... You should have a few fits set up and ready to go whether it be on alt char's or other guys in the alliance on standby... as for counters... as you dont *know* what your opponent is going to bring (Unless your PL) you don't know a counter you have to guess, but that comes to research on your opponent as the tournament progresses.

Hydra were unfortunate to of lost with a set up that did work, but that was the price they paid for bringing the same set up as did circle for bringing their freki set up again... If nobody has learnt from PL about keep changing it from match to match (even if alternating between 4 or 5 setups) and predicting what a alliance has used in the past... and can't keep up with the increasing pace... then they don't deserve to win. Props to those that made it into the tournament and got to the finals at whatever stage, but frankly if PL can do it everyone else can, no change required.

Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
Can you guys please change it so one doesn't have 3 matches spread over 3 weeks and then 4 matches on the final day (if you make it to finals).

It's really really uncool only having 1-2 hours to prepare for your next match ;P I'm guessing that's why the finals match was so uninteresting - you can't really change it up or properly prepare for your next matches if you have no time to change implants / brainstorm counters etc

Props to PL for being able to do it, Hydra obviously couldn't since they used the same setup several matches in a row, i'm sure hydra would never have brought it to finals again if they'd had time to think about it.

Great job on the tourney this year tho, quite impressed with the commitment, preparation and ISK a lot of teams spent on it and the job CCP did.

:emo tyrrax out until next time:




Exactly...If HYDRA had used a different setup, then it would've been more fun. Seeing them use the exact same setup over and over is the boring part. As far as Co2, they really should have used the Frekis once, and then been done with them, or even once, then wait a match or two. Bringing them into three matches in a row was BEGGING for them to be shot.

Zofran
Posted - 2010.06.21 02:18:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Zofran on 21/06/2010 02:19:21
Agreed strongly.

Obviously you cant have everything however, the result of this would be a requirement to start earlier and to have more 'filler' material, which at the moment is even lacking.

I propose a few bits of filler that could work:
+Run a simple compo to have your solo/fleet video from the MyEVE forum section played, set min/max times etc.
+Update a few fanfest talks, since fanfest will be early next year and not that faaaar from the tourney I'm sure 2-3 devs could make a little update to their talk and film it beforehand without commentators etc, no heavy graphics work needed and material reuse is fine.
+"Open Mic" with a section of alliance/tourney FC's able to answer some questions from both audience and potentially commentators/CCP(which would be nice tbh), could be pre-recorded.
+Some terrible RP event using 'live' broadcasts etc and involving players currently logged in to do stuff (smallish area)... I donno... RPers urgh ;/
+Ask a few people if you can record their voice comms from the first weekend or get them submitted and then using edited footage and more use of strategic overlay(!!!) do some retrospective commentary... might be hard to find willing people, but would be something really nice. Would be perfect if you could get some grid recording system in place - or even something like old UO packet video, but I guess you're fighting entropy.

Gorion Wassenar
Caldari
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2010.06.21 02:32:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: CCP Mindstar
4 matches in 1 day is just what it takes to win. Evil or Very Mad


Sounds more like ran out of time because another deadline is approaching. :P

Shamis Orzoz
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.21 03:56:00 - [29]
 

Good logistics is 50% of the tourney on the last day.

I had 5 different teams to choose from for the last match. We chose the minmatar team because it beats all of hydra's setups. We had a flaghorn team ready to roll, but it would have only defeated the Myrmidons, and not the bombers.

Ambo
I've Got Nothing
Posted - 2010.06.21 07:37:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
Good logistics is 50% of the tourney on the last day.

I had 5 different teams to choose from for the last match. We chose the minmatar team because it beats all of hydra's setups. We had a flaghorn team ready to roll, but it would have only defeated the Myrmidons, and not the bombers.


This tbh.

All experienced PvPers make a big deal about how in eve, you win the fight before it even starts. Clearly the tourney is the same. You have to do all the brain work before hand, all the practicing, have several setups ready to go, etc.

Yes, this is expensive but it's what is needed to win. Increasing time between matches on the final day would not help with that imo. It all needs to be done well in advance.


Pages: [1] 2

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only