open All Channels
seplocked EVE Alliance Tournament Discussion
blankseplocked Alliance Tournament 8 - tell us your thoughts
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 [2] 3

Author Topic

Khavi Kitamatsu
Posted - 2010.06.21 01:03:00 - [31]
 

Please do something about people being able to just run around at the end of match. In the Panda vs Dystopia match it would have helped if the play field had been shrunk to keep the players in reach of one another.


Fenix Zealot
Caldari
LOST IDEA
C0VEN
Posted - 2010.06.21 02:37:00 - [32]
 

Well firstly id like to point out that the survey was a little dry. more pointed questions should be asked about the quality of the various parts.

Secondly, and i realize this has been beaten into submission, but the commentators have a tendency to be ineffective or inattentive, or just flat out annoying. To provide a couple examples, too often do we hear stuff like "oh and that ship just disappeared i don't know why" or something to that effect. Additionally some of the commentators sounded a bit aloof, some sounded like they were trying too hard to sound like they were pointing out something important, and some, like darius johnson just sounded full of themselves.

Some of the in studio stuff was rather boring. As a sort of idea for the future, to keep people entertained, perhaps some kind of informal free for all brawls or something could be used to fill in the time between matches. For example, have a big channel with some devs in there and pick and poke people out of the channel to go have random whatever in the arenas, especially during the final matches. Perhaps some informal matches with different rules or something. my point is moar fighting, less yapping.

I liked the introduction of the flagships and i think that concept should be expanded on as well. I don't have any suggestions about ship based rules for the tournament, however, it might be entertaining to see, in the future, the tournament as a whole develop more in what kinds of pvp we see. don't get me wrong i do enjoy the current fights, they do quite often keep one on the edge of their seat with suspense given the points and the rules and whatnot, but perhaps some objective style fights could be entertaining as well. offense vs defense kinds of things could be worth exploring.

For example, have say a kind of static structure at the defense's side with maybe a buffer BS amount of hp or perhaps a little more that the offense has to kill. Lets say it cant be remote repaired or something. Whatever the stipulations might be, offense gets the option of a straight brute force attack, or a sort of nano divide and conquer attack, or snipers or whatever. Do you attack the target first or soften defenders first? perhaps this idea is not the best idea, and perhaps it would not get any appeal, but it might be worth doing in between the final matches instead of listening to the studio yapping.

Additionally, from a personal standpoint, i would really enjoy seeing tactical warping within the arena as well as cloakey tactics. We have all come to realize just how important target calling can be, but with tactical warping and cloaks present it could be possible to force an opponent to engage a member of your fleet that would not be in their best interest. I realize that this comes with the risk of abuse, but it could be very entertaining watching certain strategies and combat tactics unfold.

my apologies for the incoherent jabbering here, but this is my response to the tournament.

~ Fenix

Thresh Avery
Best Path Inc.
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2010.06.21 03:10:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Noobjuice
The tournament was good. Would like to see some changes with rules for next year to liven it up.

Bring back more personality with a host like Spiral Junkie and commentators like ccp claw, ccp mindstar and stavros. It's the quick witted, experienced and energetic guys that make the tournament so entertaining.

P.S. Jamesw we miss ya buddy


This. Eleventy billion times this!

Eulalinda
Posted - 2010.06.21 05:02:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Eulalinda on 21/06/2010 05:06:49
Edited by: Eulalinda on 21/06/2010 05:04:14
Originally by: Fenix Zealot
Secondly, and i realize this has been beaten into submission, but the commentators have a tendency to be ineffective or inattentive, or just flat out annoying.

Yes! I often muted the commentary because it wasn't helping me understand the match and the jokes were very annoying.

Originally by: Jane Vladmir
Get better commentators:
Currently the commentators all seem like "great guys" but they're not so great at commentating. A great commentator adds so much to a nice video....

Seconded.

I enjoyed the matches, but they're confusing to a carebear like me. I don't know what ships are what, what they do, etc. Yes, hardcore pvp'ers know this stuff, but do hardcore pvp'ers really want to listen to the silly antics of the commentators? I certainly don't. Just my 2.

Originally by: Jiks
Good job overall guys. Excellent fights and coverage IMO.

Yes! Ty vm for making the videos available on Youtube!!

NereSky
Gallente
RETRIBUTIONS.
Legion of The Damned.
Posted - 2010.06.21 06:57:00 - [35]
 

Edited by: NereSky on 21/06/2010 06:57:46
Originally by: Khavi Kitamatsu
Please do something about people being able to just run around at the end of match. In the Panda vs Dystopia match it would have helped if the play field had been shrunk to keep the players in reach of one another.




Well there is a time restriction, and if the area of space is shrunk anymore you cannot maximise the full use of hybids/auto cannons and/or lasers - restricting them to a short range slug fest.

The arena encourages thinking and opens up a mulitude of differant set-ups and options.
These Benny Hill moments although dissapointing are part of the game, part of the tourney and if you are really honest about it they 'do not' delay the match in anyway (gives a chance to make a cuppa or crack open a another beer)

Lucius Voltar
Gallente
The ArchAngel Vanguard
Posted - 2010.06.21 07:02:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Khavi Kitamatsu
Please do something about people being able to just run around at the end of match. In the Panda vs Dystopia match it would have helped if the play field had been shrunk to keep the players in reach of one another.




Although apart from some of the missile setups we don't see many long range weaponry.. CCP still has to give that option, some of the BS can easily sit at one side and sniper to the other. While I agree watching something like a dramiel kite the arena at the end is boring... It does give the audience chance to top their drinks up (especially if they are running behind schedule and its match after match), it also gives the guys in the tourny to loot wrecks as well.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2010.06.21 08:18:00 - [37]
 

Rather light on actual feedback regarding the tournament itself, mostly just census stuff.

Biggest problem I had this year was that a lot of teams filled the gap left by logistics/hull type restrictions with eWar .. makes for extremely boring matches.
Paint dry = Three Drakes spending 12 minutes whittling down a damped to oblivion opponent.

Since you are not likely to spend the time needed to balance the eWar on TQ, you could at least restrict its use in the tournaments .. most of the modules are insanely broken when applied to/spammed in small gang combat.

PS: The "My Observations" thread from yesterday.

Lucius Voltar
Gallente
The ArchAngel Vanguard
Posted - 2010.06.21 08:21:00 - [38]
 

Nothing wrong with the use of Ewar... generally the ewar matches have been relatively quick... your problem with what was mentioned is drakes... they are just made for tanking unless HAM fitted which we barely saw if at all. Drakes aren't meant for DPS... like the turtle tank its something that is boring... some could ask for them to be banned but its eve... it happens.

Green Pants
Btech Refugees
Posted - 2010.06.21 08:32:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Green Pants on 21/06/2010 08:33:45
Suggestion:

Reverse POS shield thunderdome that gets smaller as the fight progresses (bigassed shield that keeps ships in, not out). Would remove the lulz of watching folks get Heal 0'd, but would add potential hilarity and new strats as people either try to beat the clock or survive until things get tighter.

Maybe something like 125 radius shrinking down to 60 radius by the end.

Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises
Babylon Project
Posted - 2010.06.21 10:07:00 - [40]
 

Another good alliance tourney, but as always enough stuff that could be improved upon:

- Sound, seriously, get a competent sound engineer, the studio sound was too low, the crossovers (hence) were too loud, made for a really annoying experience watching.
- The stream format could be made in a way that it would be more accessible to other platforms
- If you bring commentators for us to laugh at they should be more hilarious: best commentary match was obviously the one commented upon by CCP Clawhammertotehface and CCP STAVLOCKISCRUISECONTROLFORCOOL and that match was pretty weak. I was facepalming the commentaries about as often as just giggling, bring sillier or less silly commentators, the level of silly here was just a bit off. Also would have liked JamesW to comment again.
- Player made movies are ftw and a great way to introduce people to the game and that aspect of eve, could have some made for the tourney etc, let myeve section know about 6 months in advance (like this time) but actually ask them for the kewl/funny/epic movies.

- Obviously tweak the rules for next time, the '3 per ship' rule was pretty much ruling this tourney. Next time I'd extend this to logistics ships as well, keeping the max 1 logistics fit logistics/t3 rule. I didn't like the tripple rook option, but it did kinda work anyway.

Narciss Sevar
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.21 11:17:00 - [41]
 

Bring back Kil2, Darius and Crovan and then pick 2 other commentators with clear pvp knowledge next time. tia

Slamz
Posted - 2010.06.21 11:23:00 - [42]
 

the studio segment watch with anglehun and verone was so bad i switched off and watched youtube replays. great heads for radio
kil2 was the only guy i liked to listen too.

lpg

Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2010.06.21 13:23:00 - [43]
 

I loved the tournament. Every game was amazing with the, over time, utter predictability of PL winning becoming boring. I have absolutely no idea how the setups are chosen, but Hydra fielding the same setup for the third time in a row, and that where Genos is joining PL makes it easy to see the more conspiracy minded looking for match fixing.

The set: The expert table setup, including the two commentators and one revolving CCP staff member and Soundwave, was a good one. Gallente green is kind of gross in real life, though.

The commentators: Although some were trying at times (Darius' puns and Brianna's nervousness), by the end they had all settled in and were doing fine. Kill2, Verone and AngelHun were all very good. I was absolutely furious at the mobbing and flaming of Brianna because she was a woman and foreign, and since those actions clearly go against the TOS of the forums, a few bans would have done wonders to make the more penile amongst them appreciate the results of their actions.

The format: Works extremely well and is only getting better over the years with one, glaring and major exception: There is far too much emphasis on very expensive setups. The Tech 2 and faction ships should be more heavily penalised for points compared to the Tech 1 versions. Additionally, stealth bombers need a higher point rating as they do far more damage per ship point than anything smaller than a command ship or HAC.

The schedule: The single biggest screw up that CCP did was to run the AT at the same time as the soccer world cup. During the quarter finals last night, the stream broke off completely, almost certainly due to the internet being overloaded at many choke points by people watching the Brazil-Ivory Coast match. I was fortunate in that I saw one of the posted VPNs and could subscribe to that in time to watch the finals, but I was angry being forced to pay even more money to CCP because they were too nerdy with their timing and forgot about the real world.

Additional things I'd like in the tournament: A smaller tournament for new players, say players with less than 5 million SP with proof of account authenticity (to prevent vets setting up new accounts to steamroll newer players) being required via credit card verification and possibly by other means as well. Only a few matches, say 8, with a requirement of only tech 1 ships and gear.

Overall, though, a very nice AT. Congratulations!

Romale
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.21 16:21:00 - [44]
 

tbh, i would just like commentators who don't look so devastated when they realized we are going to win again, its unprofessional

Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.06.21 16:58:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Rainus Max on 21/06/2010 16:58:35
I think you should make it more difficult for the previous winners, say knock 10 points off for every previous AT victory. Just to make it more of a challenge for the winners and give other teams a bit of a chance.

My thoughts, nothing against PL.

Also More Black Cats and interesting Physics Tricks!

Oh and more Oveur!

Orange Faeces
The Atomik Izlamiks
Posted - 2010.06.21 17:04:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Orange Faeces on 21/06/2010 17:39:41
Referring to PVP in the survey is also a little misleading. The Alliance Tournament is only based around a PVP setting, but depends mostly on spying and knowing what other teams will bring.

PL spies 4tw!

oF

Zen Savvij
Posted - 2010.06.21 18:23:00 - [47]
 

There needs to be a Tournament main page. One entry point for links to past matchup results, and to next weekend's matchups. The ad-hoc links from eve-gate are easily lost from the prior week.

Zarch AlDain
GK inc.
Posted - 2010.06.21 20:54:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Zarch AlDain on 21/06/2010 20:55:35
Spying is easy enough to beat. For example: Get at least 2 or 3 different teams ready and have them all in place ready for the match. Only announce which one is playing to the people playing and only when they are getting into fleet. You are going to need those multiple setups anyway over the course of the tourney if you are serious about it. If you do that then a spy would have to be actually one of the 10 people playing, which is MUCH harder to achieve!


As for feedback, overall it was a good tourney. I'd like to see a progressive shrinking of the arena rather than a flat 15 minute timeout. Possibly the number of ships on a team could also shrink the arena. I.e. after 5 minutes if one team only has 2 or fewer ships left then the arena starts shrinking immediately.

Having a reverse-pos-shield for the arena boundary is an excellent idea.

Points wise, cost adjustments:
Bombers +1
T1 cruisers -1
HACs -1
All battleship hulls -1

Remove the limit on number of logistics cruisers and the requirement to fit remote rep on a T3/logistics hull BUT keep the restriction on only having one ship with remote armour/shield repairers.

Edit to add: Only allow one ewar module (painter/ecm/damp) to be fitted to any ship that does not have a bonus for that ewar.

Wild Rho
Amarr
Silent Core
Posted - 2010.06.21 21:35:00 - [49]
 

One thing I'd like to see in the next tournament would be a small HUD change or effect whereby we can see on the tournament feed where the boundries are during a match.

Huan CK
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2010.06.21 21:59:00 - [50]
 

IMO the Tie-Breaker rule is aweful.
Qualifyings and the rankings there do in no way reflect the real strength of a team, especially since there's only 2 matches, draws are rather random, and rankings on equal points rather arbitrary. Anything but a suitable Tie-Breaker.

My vision:
In the finals, one team should always be completely obliterated. There should be no scenario allowed where both teams have ships left. For this:

Decrease timeframe to 15 minutes max.
After 15 minutes, move ALL remaining ships 5km away from the beacon for a "shoot-out".
Disallow all ewar to be activated.
Disallow all movement to happen. Everyone should sit still.
Allow only tanks and weapons to be activated, let them shoot at each other until one team is completely gone.
If there's ships left that still cant beat each other, disallow tank to be used, only guns now.
If there's 2 ships remaining without guns, for whatever reason (burned to heat?!), destroy both and kick both out of the tournament, leaving the next opponent with a victory by default.

This achieves the following things:
No points whoring. People can't just kill a frigate, then run away for 20 minutes and win.
Turtling isn't gonna win if it doesn't have the damage.
EWaring doesn't win if it doesn't have the damage.
Running doesn't win unless it does the damage.
Battles will be faster pace and more damage will be dealt.
More explosions.
Less stupid hero-running.
Less turtling.
More entertainment.
More excitement.

Thank you for your attention.

Cors
It's A Trap
It's A Trap Alliance
Posted - 2010.06.21 22:46:00 - [51]
 

Do something competely different.

Put a MOM at each celestial.

In each MOM, put a BS, 2 BC's, 3 Cruisers, 4 Destoyers, and 5 Frigates. Each of these ships is selected RANDOMLY, so no all caldari, no all minnie, no all gal setups.

Put a RANDOM selection of T1 weapons, mods, ammo, implants, drones in the MOM's corp hanger array.

Allow each team to pick which celestial they'll warp to, one of their members hops in the MOM, and the others take out ships from the SMA, fit the ships, then warp to the Tournament beacon to start the fight.

This would get rid of all these cookie cutter setups we see in the tournament.
Yes, it would mean 15 ships per side, but 15vs15 would make for some good fights, and with the random ships/weapon/modules/ammo availability, we'd see some interesting setups.

Just a suggestion. The current tournament setup is too heavily focused for my taste.

Viper ShizzIe
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.21 22:56:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Huan CK
IMO the Tie-Breaker rule is aweful.
Qualifyings and the rankings there do in no way reflect the real strength of a team, especially since there's only 2 matches, draws are rather random, and rankings on equal points rather arbitrary. Anything but a suitable Tie-Breaker.

My vision:
In the finals, one team should always be completely obliterated. There should be no scenario allowed where both teams have ships left. For this:

Decrease timeframe to 15 minutes max.
After 15 minutes, move ALL remaining ships 5km away from the beacon for a "shoot-out".
Disallow all ewar to be activated.
Disallow all movement to happen. Everyone should sit still.
Allow only tanks and weapons to be activated, let them shoot at each other until one team is completely gone.
If there's ships left that still cant beat each other, disallow tank to be used, only guns now.
If there's 2 ships remaining without guns, for whatever reason (burned to heat?!), destroy both and kick both out of the tournament, leaving the next opponent with a victory by default.

This achieves the following things:
No points whoring. People can't just kill a frigate, then run away for 20 minutes and win.
Turtling isn't gonna win if it doesn't have the damage.
EWaring doesn't win if it doesn't have the damage.
Running doesn't win unless it does the damage.
Battles will be faster pace and more damage will be dealt.
More explosions.
Less stupid hero-running.
Less turtling.
More entertainment.
More excitement.

Thank you for your attention.


hey bro u mad?

Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2010.06.21 23:22:00 - [53]
 

An interesting addition to the tournament would be to have a "pure skill" round where both teams have to field the exact same ships. Something like 2xBS, 2xBC, 2xcruisers, 2xdestroyers and 2xfrigates. CCP picks the ships and the loadouts and both teams have exactly the same chance of winning. That would annul the advantages of meta-gaming or isk wealth.

The "pure skill" round could be after the qualification rounds where the two highest losing teams, i.e. teams that did not make it into the finals, get a chance to get a slot in the final.

It would add some spice and differentiation to the tournament, I think.

Personally, I think the entire tournament should be run this way. I'm pretty sure that teams like PL would still do extremely well, being as good as they are, but it would level the playing field a lot.

Orange Faeces
The Atomik Izlamiks
Posted - 2010.06.21 23:34:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Bomberlocks
An interesting addition to the tournament would be to have a "pure skill" round where both teams have to field the exact same ships. Something like 2xBS, 2xBC, 2xcruisers, 2xdestroyers and 2xfrigates. CCP picks the ships and the loadouts and both teams have exactly the same chance of winning. That would annul the advantages of meta-gaming or isk wealth.

The "pure skill" round could be after the qualification rounds where the two highest losing teams, i.e. teams that did not make it into the finals, get a chance to get a slot in the final.

It would add some spice and differentiation to the tournament, I think.

Personally, I think the entire tournament should be run this way. I'm pretty sure that teams like PL would still do extremely well, being as good as they are, but it would level the playing field a lot.


Yes, but that would be a PVP Tournament, not an Alliance Tournament. The point of Alliances is spying and metagaming. amirite?

oF

Tiruriku
Posted - 2010.06.22 00:21:00 - [55]
 

Stopping the fight for a minute to loot is very boring. Can you just give the winning team a minute or two after the video ends to loot wrecks so they focus on the fight?

Srialia
Misfit Toys
Posted - 2010.06.22 03:10:00 - [56]
 

Rules: I think it's time to restrict bomber usage. Not necessarily through points, but maybe something akin to the logistics rule. As exciting as it is to see a match where the opposing team actually beats the bomber setup, just about every other match was one with 5 or 6 bombers and it got a little boring to see. I know there are significant differences in the support any given team brings when they field 5 bombers, but the differences are very tough to spot when you're a spectator and every match ends up looking the same.

Also, CCP: please please please continue to allow the metagame to continue unrestricted. I doubt very much that you would restrict spying and other such activities, given the philosophy you apply to your game, but another voice supporting that aspect of the game never hurts.

Camera Work: It's nice to see the camera responding to the commentators on occasion, such as zooming in on guns when the commentators can't figure out what a given ship has fit. It would be nice if the audience could get a clearer picture of what was going on in terms of distance and maneuvering though. The tactical overlay would appear sometimes in some of the matches but maybe you could find a way to include it permanently (also changing the viewing angle periodically so we could get a handle on the 3D space). I would like to see the flow of the whole fight in more detail, not just who is taking damage.

Commentators: Some of them are good, some are not. Retain the ones that have interesting things to say, can follow the events of the battle, and are right about ship designations more often than not, and replace the rest. One specific thing I noticed about pretty much every one of them was that they love to say, "It's interesting." They opened way too many of their sentences with it, enough that it was noticeable and started to become annoying by the end of the tournament. There are other ways to begin a discussion of some aspect of the current match, and you should come up with a handful and practice with some of them before the next tournament. Yes, this is a pretty minor nitpick, but at the same time a very small amount of variety can make an enormous difference in how easy it is to listen to you. It might be worth looking into if you are looking to improve as a commentator.

Flashh Gorden
Exile Consortium
Nihilists Social Club
Posted - 2010.06.22 15:23:00 - [57]
 

I enjoyed it very much. Well organised with not too much time between the matches.
Some of the commentry was poor with certain indivduals so busy trying to be funny they are completly missing whats going on.
If I want one liners and wise cracks I can go down my local commedy club and get some decent ones.


Stovo kor
Firebird Squadron
Posted - 2010.06.22 16:48:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Srialia
Rules: I think it's time to restrict bomber usage. Not necessarily through points, but maybe something akin to the logistics rule. As exciting as it is to see a match where the opposing team actually beats the bomber setup, just about every other match was one with 5 or 6 bombers and it got a little boring to see. I know there are significant differences in the support any given team brings when they field 5 bombers, but the differences are very tough to spot when you're a spectator and every match ends up looking the same.




Ye what he said.
As a spectator, bombers had their novelty value but after watching them for umpteenth time kinda gets old.
Increase point value or restrict bomber usage, hopefully leading to some variations

Zarch AlDain
GK inc.
Posted - 2010.06.22 19:15:00 - [59]
 

One thing I'd really like to see is the ranking based on "rank opponent gets vs next target blah" removed.

Instead it should be based on:

Firstly: Number of wins.
Secondly: Points scored.
Thirdly:
If won both matches: Total time taken to eliminate both opponents (shorter time is better.)
If won one lost one: Amount of time lasted in lost game - time taken to win won game (so winning in shorter time and/or lasting longer in losing is better)
If lost both: Amount of time lasted in both games added together (longer is better).


The objective of this rule is to encourage damaging setups designed to eliminate the opponent as quickly as possible. It also highly incentivises teams to make sure they have a way to deal with those pesky benny-hill moments :)




I'd be tempted to combine this with arena shrinking rules though that kick in when one team only has a few ships remaining to stop 1 intercepter completely ruining the results for a team that wiped out their opposition in 30 seconds.
_________________

Sidzo
SRBI
Posted - 2010.06.22 19:41:00 - [60]
 

I know always will be meta gaming in Eve but try to do something with dampeners Confused
Or we will watch again Alliance DAMPENING tournament
Also grats on Freki kill to CCP Claw ugh


Pages: 1 [2] 3

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only