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Ulhass
Caldari
Mindstar Technology
Posted - 2010.06.18 06:00:00 - [1]
 

So i guess the first man in 14 years to be executed by firing squad in the United States is taking place in one minute...

Zar Terra
Posted - 2010.06.18 06:09:00 - [2]
 

Awesome ? Confused

Ulhass
Caldari
Mindstar Technology
Posted - 2010.06.18 06:16:00 - [3]
 

thought it was outlawed, but its utah...

Arvald
Caldari
Drunken Space Irish
Posted - 2010.06.18 06:31:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Ulhass
thought it was outlawed, but its utah...

i love my state, everyone is polite because everybody knows that everyone else is armed

Tallaran Kouros
Cryptonym Sleepers
Posted - 2010.06.18 10:30:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Ulhass
thought it was outlawed, but its utah...


It is outlawed.

However, he has been on death row for some time and predates it's banning, so he was still able to choose it.

Zeredek
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.06.18 10:41:00 - [6]
 

What did he do?

Niccolado Starwalker
Gallente
Shadow Templars
Posted - 2010.06.18 10:46:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Ulhass
So i guess the first man in 14 years to be executed by firing squad in the United States is taking place in one minute...


Any country with death penalty is a nation still with a foot in the dark ages.




Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.06.18 11:07:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 18/06/2010 11:12:04

Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Any country with death penalty is a nation still with a foot in the dark ages.


Meh. Long live the reboot of the dark ages Twisted Evil

I would only have three types of punishment, ever :
* fines (as a combo of fixed amount plus percent of networth plus percent of recent income),
* limited-time slavery-like indentured servitude (for those that can't pay the fines even with loans, i.e. those unable to become wage-slaves),
* and death (for those that can't properly serve as slave-a-likes for some reason, be it bad behaviour as a slave or inability to do anything useful as a slave).

Prison is for wishy-washies. Long live modern slavery. Death to the criminally useless.
Don't want to be fined/enslaved/killed ? DON'T COMMIT CRIMES.
Of course, the list of crimes would have to be radically revamped too... it's only a crime if there was actual prejudice to somebody else except you, and punishment will fit the damage you dealt to others. Stuff you do to yourself ? Go ahead, do anything you want, nobody cares.

As for the death method, again, who cares. LET THEM PICK IT THEMSELVES (as long as it fits the budget).
Sleeping pills ? Lethal injection ? Drug overdose for their drug of choice ? Electric chair ? Robot firing squad ? Brick of C4 ? Decapitation ? Several hand grenades ? Drop a 64-ton weight on them for all I know. Or give them the option of a loaded shotgun after you put them in solitary with nothing to eat or drink, open the cell a week later.
They're dead either way, so it doesn't matter how they die, might as well let them pick their own death method, as long as it ensures their death.


Man, I would totally have a zero percent approval rating as a country leader Laughing
Actually, the scary thought would be that I might actually get a high approval rating.

Niccolado Starwalker
Gallente
Shadow Templars
Posted - 2010.06.18 11:32:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 18/06/2010 11:32:19
Originally by: Akita T
Man, I would totally have a zero percent approval rating as a country leader dictator Laughing
Actually, the scary thought would be that I might actually get a high approval rating.



Fixed.

And Yeh. All dictators "do" for some reason Razz


Victor Valka
Caldari
The Kairos Syndicate
Transmission Lost
Posted - 2010.06.18 11:56:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Originally by: Ulhass
So i guess the first man in 14 years to be executed by firing squad in the United States is taking place in one minute...


Any country with death penalty is a nation still with a foot in the dark ages.
You're a reasonable person, from what I've seen on the forums, and I'm actually interested why you'd hold such an opinion -- why are you against death penalty?

I support it. Assuming that guilt has been proven beyond all shadow of doubt, death penalty is more humane then a lifelong incarceration will ever be. I don't see the benefit of lifelong torture paid for with taxpayers money, and people who truly deserve it do not care about the consequences of their actions anyways -- what the method of punishment will be is irrelevant to them.

(Death penalty is abolished in my country, just for the reference.)

ChaeDoc II
Gallente
Sigillum Militum Xpisti
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2010.06.18 12:15:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Victor Valka
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Originally by: Ulhass
So i guess the first man in 14 years to be executed by firing squad in the United States is taking place in one minute...


Any country with death penalty is a nation still with a foot in the dark ages.
You're a reasonable person, from what I've seen on the forums, and I'm actually interested why you'd hold such an opinion -- why are you against death penalty?

I support it. Assuming that guilt has been proven beyond all shadow of doubt, death penalty is more humane then a lifelong incarceration will ever be. I don't see the benefit of lifelong torture paid for with taxpayers money, and people who truly deserve it do not care about the consequences of their actions anyways -- what the method of punishment will be is irrelevant to them.

(Death penalty is abolished in my country, just for the reference.)



Can't see how anyone could think that execution is more humane than incarceration. Just seems like a rather silly attempt by the pro-death penalty lobby to appeal to the liberalism od the anti-death penalty lobby. And i find it funny that the pro-death penalty use "incarceration costs the taxpayer money" as one of the reasons it's a good thing, as is saving money is a good reason to kill people. Rolling Eyes

So Sensational
Ministry of War
Posted - 2010.06.18 12:19:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: ChaeDoc II
Originally by: Victor Valka
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Originally by: Ulhass
So i guess the first man in 14 years to be executed by firing squad in the United States is taking place in one minute...


Any country with death penalty is a nation still with a foot in the dark ages.
You're a reasonable person, from what I've seen on the forums, and I'm actually interested why you'd hold such an opinion -- why are you against death penalty?

I support it. Assuming that guilt has been proven beyond all shadow of doubt, death penalty is more humane then a lifelong incarceration will ever be. I don't see the benefit of lifelong torture paid for with taxpayers money, and people who truly deserve it do not care about the consequences of their actions anyways -- what the method of punishment will be is irrelevant to them.

(Death penalty is abolished in my country, just for the reference.)



Can't see how anyone could think that execution is more humane than incarceration. Just seems like a rather silly attempt by the pro-death penalty lobby to appeal to the liberalism od the anti-death penalty lobby. And i find it funny that the pro-death penalty use "incarceration costs the taxpayer money" as one of the reasons it's a good thing, as is saving money is a good reason to kill people. Rolling Eyes

Ever been locked up in a cell for your entire life? I guess you imagine it'd be a fun thing, like a vacation.

Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Posted - 2010.06.18 12:19:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 18/06/2010 12:20:51
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 18/06/2010 12:20:06
As said above he is grandfathered into the old punishment due to him committing the crime and getting tried before the outlaw of the firing squad. Also the US Navay is still allowed to hang.

As Akita said 3 punishments is all that is needed. Individuals, even with minor crimes, travel along the line of 3 punishments. Lashings for all minor transgressions, indentured servitued for a time based on the type of crime, and death for a thrid strike or the crimes that are deemed the most heinous of crimes.

Certain crimes start the punishment process at the second or third levels for obvious reasons. One would need a list of petty crimes and the reccommended number of public lashings. Outside of that people can do whatever the hell they want as long as they do not commit any of the said typical crimes of petty theft, larceny/grand, assult, battery, ****, and murder. Maybe a few other crimes may need to be included, but most 'real' crimes will fall into those headings.

EDIT:

Fail at reading.


Slade

Ak'athra J'ador
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2010.06.18 12:38:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Victor Valka
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Originally by: Ulhass
So i guess the first man in 14 years to be executed by firing squad in the United States is taking place in one minute...


Any country with death penalty is a nation still with a foot in the dark ages.
You're a reasonable person, from what I've seen on the forums, and I'm actually interested why you'd hold such an opinion -- why are you against death penalty?

I support it. Assuming that guilt has been proven beyond all shadow of doubt, death penalty is more humane then a lifelong incarceration will ever be. I don't see the benefit of lifelong torture paid for with taxpayers money, and people who truly deserve it do not care about the consequences of their actions anyways -- what the method of punishment will be is irrelevant to them.

(Death penalty is abolished in my country, just for the reference.)


No human being should ever have the right to end another's life. No matter what system we created around us.

the perversion of the whole thing is we do it systemically.
I am sorry but until systematic execution of human beings does not stop, no bright future awaits.

its the same with laws about guns. people say having them makes them safer. and I agree that is correct for the time being. but you must understand what the fact that anyone can have a gun does to the mentality of people.

if people weren't allowed to have guns the mentality would change. not for us, and probably not even for our children, but in the long-run it would be a beneficial change for humanity in general.

as long as people run around with guns and execute other human beings systemically, you cant expect progress.

but its to late for any of that, seeing what is happening around the world, fear of that which we do not understand is back, the book burning mentality is back, and that never leads to anything good.

take the Islamic religion for example, people don't understand it and media does a great job at fuelling that non-understanding. if a person actually wanted to educate themselves and buy the book to read it, they would probably be ridiculed by the neighbours, which is interesting since the book is very similar to the bible, actually the same in some cases.

we as a people have stopped to progress. sure we have better technology but that is not what I am talking about. as long as we keep these dark-age traditions, we wont get anywhere.

ChaeDoc II
Gallente
Sigillum Militum Xpisti
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2010.06.18 12:39:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: So Sensational


Ever been locked up in a cell for your entire life? I guess you imagine it'd be a fun thing, like a vacation.


No, but then i've never committed a crime worthy of such punishment. Your attempt at humour is just that, an attempt.

Lets say someone commits many non-violent crimes, like fraud, and accumulate an 80 year prison sentence. Should we kill them too? I mean, so what if they haven't killed or hurt anyone... Rolling Eyes

Prisoners might be incarcerated for the rest of their life but they have the right to live, and we shouldn't be taking that life away from them just because they might not enjoy the rest of their lives as much as they did before.

What if a lifer has kids that they'd like to see grow up? Should we kill him/her anyway because it'd be more "humane" to kill them?

Imprisonment is much more humane than execution, any attempt to say otherwise is simply moronic.

Niccolado Starwalker
Gallente
Shadow Templars
Posted - 2010.06.18 13:06:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Victor Valka
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Originally by: Ulhass
So i guess the first man in 14 years to be executed by firing squad in the United States is taking place in one minute...


Any country with death penalty is a nation still with a foot in the dark ages.
You're a reasonable person, from what I've seen on the forums, and I'm actually interested why you'd hold such an opinion -- why are you against death penalty?

I support it. Assuming that guilt has been proven beyond all shadow of doubt, death penalty is more humane then a lifelong incarceration will ever be. I don't see the benefit of lifelong torture paid for with taxpayers money, and people who truly deserve it do not care about the consequences of their actions anyways -- what the method of punishment will be is irrelevant to them.

(Death penalty is abolished in my country, just for the reference.)


Im not going into the debate around the topic as it is worse just on par with politics and religions etc. But taking another persons life never correct whats done wrong, and when the execution is done any wrong sentences cant be undone.

Also Death penalty dont work as a deterrent against criminals. Even in USA we see this where there are lower crime rates in the states without DP as those who have it (Can anyone spell Texas?)

In addition it is barabric. It is as I said remnants from a forgone dark era.

I am not saying criminals should not be punished. They certainly should. But there are others and better ways of doing that! Long prison time for the cold bloded ones and Prison terms with rehabilitation for those who do crimes based on life issues etc.

Death Penalty? The barbarians solution on crime resolvement.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.06.18 13:10:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 18/06/2010 13:19:35

Originally by: Ak'athra J'ador
No human being should ever have the right to end another's life.

I reject that assumption. Right, probably no. But either privilege or duty, yes.
Life should be a privilege, not a right. It gets revoked if you abuse it.
Ok, not quite a Darth Vader type of "penal system", more like Admiral Thrawn, but still.

P.S. The only rights you get are the right to a fair trial, the right to get paid for your work, the right to do with your money as you please, and the right to own things as long as you can afford paying for them and are not in debt.
Everything else is a privilege that can be revoked if abused.
Some of those privileges might be granted by default at birth, but they're still revocable if abused.

Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Also Death penalty dont work as a deterrent against criminals.

The death penalty in my system is not meant to be a deterrent at all Twisted Evil
It's purely a cost-savings measure YARRRR!!
The indentured servitude and heavy fines are the deterrent.

Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network
Dignitas.
Posted - 2010.06.18 13:21:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Ulhass
So i guess the first man in 14 years to be executed by firing squad in the United States is taking place in one minute...


I personally believe that death penalty is an obsolete method of punishment (I only support it in very few and extreme cases). Do we know what he actually did and why he's condemned to death?

Vogue
Short Bus Pole Dancers
Posted - 2010.06.18 13:21:00 - [19]
 

I am curious what do people think the difference is between giving a soldier sanction to kill other soldiers\insurgants\terrorists in a war. And not to give the legal system sanction not to kill those that commit the most abhorant evil crimes.

Niccolado Starwalker
Gallente
Shadow Templars
Posted - 2010.06.18 13:23:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Vogue
I am curious what do people think the difference is between giving a soldier sanction to kill other soldiers\insurgants\terrorists in a war. And not to give the legal system sanction not to kill those that commit the most abhorant evil crimes.


The difference? The legal system in most countries, who are not considered functioning millitary dictatorships..


Torque Daisy
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2010.06.18 13:28:00 - [21]
 

death penalty for treading on random flower beds!


yes, from that annoying wesley crusher TNG episode.


Jago Kain
Amarr
Ramm's RDI
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2010.06.18 14:09:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Jago Kain on 18/06/2010 14:11:35
Actually, I quite like aspects of Akita's proposal that condemned prisoners be allowed to choose the method of execution, specifically "Drug overdose for their drug of choice" - I choose you Cannabis... bugger... still trying warden, honestly I'm going as fast as I can... pass me another ounce will you... and I could do with more pizza whilst you're at it.

On a more serious note, there is a very simple reason why we cannot have capital punishment.

It's the legal system. I'm not just talking about the UK or USA legal syatem; I don't want to drag this down into a bunfight over whose lawyers are more crooked and which judges are most bent. I mean any legal system; none of them are infalliable.

Whilst we still have a legal system that consistently gets it wrong by convicting the wrong folk in serious criminal cases, you cannot have a sanction that is irreversable.

Capital punishment inevitably leads to the state sanctioned murder of innocent people somewhere down the line, which is the main reason it was abolished in the UK.

Simple really.

King Gore
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2010.06.18 14:14:00 - [23]
 

Firing squad best squad.

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2010.06.18 14:23:00 - [24]
 

I'd choose firing squad over any other alternative myself, maybe that's why it was outlawed, less drawn out and humiliating than the others?

Tallaran Kouros
Cryptonym Sleepers
Posted - 2010.06.18 14:30:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Ak'athra J'ador

its the same with laws about guns. people say having them makes them safer. and I agree that is correct for the time being. but you must understand what the fact that anyone can have a gun does to the mentality of people.

if people weren't allowed to have guns the mentality would change. not for us, and probably not even for our children, but in the long-run it would be a beneficial change for humanity in general.


I don't want to reignite this old argument again, but I can't let this pass unchallenged.

Gun ownership and gun crime in the US is far, far different to how it is in Europe - the culture is completely different in Europe and we do not have the same problems.

M'ktakh
Posted - 2010.06.18 14:39:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Also Death penalty dont work as a deterrent against criminals.

The death penalty in my system is not meant to be a deterrent at all Twisted Evil
It's purely a cost-savings measure YARRRR!!
The indentured servitude and heavy fines are the deterrent.



Any penalty, in and of itself, is no deterrent. You have to couple the penalty with a high chance of getting caught.

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
Posted - 2010.06.18 14:50:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Jago Kain
Whilst we still have a legal system that consistently gets it wrong by convicting the wrong folk in serious criminal cases, you cannot have a sanction that is irreversable.



Finally someone gets it.

The reason the death penalty is wrong is because the "justice" system doesn't work. Just take a few minutes and look at how many people have been found innocent years after their conviction, some of them sentenced to death. And that's only the mistakes we know about, it's not exactly difficult to see how it's almost inevitable that some of the people we have executed have been innocent as well.


How many innocent people is the state allowed to murder as the side effect of being "tough on crime"?

Exploding Tukey
Gallente
Scrap Metal Salvage Inc
Chained Reactions
Posted - 2010.06.18 15:00:00 - [28]
 

People against the death penalty are still ok with locking people up in a box and making them stare at a wall until they die.

Logical! YARRRR!!

ChaeDoc II
Gallente
Sigillum Militum Xpisti
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2010.06.18 15:10:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Exploding Tukey
People against the death penalty are still ok with locking people up in a box and making them stare at a wall until they die.

Logical! YARRRR!!



No we're not.

Abraham Azadian
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
Posted - 2010.06.18 15:33:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Exploding Tukey
People against the death penalty are still ok with locking people up in a box and making them stare at a wall until they die.

Logical! YARRRR!!


Well, you death penalty advocates want to put people in a box as well but after you've killed them. Which makes it kind of harder to undo if the legal system made a mistake in the process.



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