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David Goodwill
Caldari
Thunderwaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.07.05 07:55:00 - [781]
 

Originally by: Caldrion Dosto
This is very easy tbh i canīt imagine how CCP GMīs could make a wrong turn.

If you want the result of the fight to stand and you didnīt "giveback" or respawn any capitalships then remove the duplicated ships from the game.

If logs shows them as dead KILL THEM.


And seriously this would be best in the long run for everyone, since this is bound to happen again sooner or later and i would think it would make the game suck if you respawn all capitalship loses in fights, then whats the point?




Tbh, I think the problem is that the logs show them as both alive in one system and dead in another. They are not so much ghost ships, as it seems the server code is written so that a ship exists in one system before it is deleted in another. However if a node dies or lags out before the command to delete the ships reaches them and they get destroyed, then they still exist in the system they jump to as that is how the code was written, and was presumably how the pilots were able to jump into a system, warp to a pos, take a screenshot and log off, while in the other system the code was attempting to delete the ships out of the system yet due to node death wasn't able to get there in time before they were destroyed. I expect that a little later on, after the node was working again, the code finally made it back to the pilots that the ship with the same ID as theirs was destroyed and hence removed. However once downtime hit and the server does its daily maintenance of DB cleanup and other SQL fluff, it found the ships alive in the system they were jumped to and put them back in the system. (This is however only a guess as how their code is written, as I haven't actually seen it. Only one of their SQL devs could tell you for sure, and they won't)

I would just let CCP do their job in this case. Any post by SC or NC is going to be bias in some way anyway, there are hardly any neutral observers, everyone has an agenda, so these posts should be discounted in any informed decision. Whatever they do, CCP is going to **** off one half of the debate. There will be no winners here. As far as I can see it both sides have a valid claim that the ships should be destroyed / alive.

Regardless i'm loving the tears in this thread. Keep em going! :twisted:

Ed Rush
Gallente
Erasers inc.
Controlled Chaos
Posted - 2010.07.05 08:51:00 - [782]
 

Edited by: Ed Rush on 05/07/2010 08:55:41
why not use SISI as "battlegrounds" ? It'd be laggy too.. and the server might crash and probably many players would die due to blackscreen too.... but hey thats normal.

Like have the major power lego blocks sit on the same poker table and wage on moons and stuff. And then the SISI battle winner gets the stuff handed over on TQ peacefully.

Imagine how CCP's economists would cry tears for isk not being drained from ingame economy.

Lord TGR
Minmatar
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.07.05 13:38:00 - [783]
 

I just thought of the subname for dominion/tyrannis: The Wulfpax Age.

Imutep
Amarr
Octavian Heavy Industries
Posted - 2010.07.05 13:42:00 - [784]
 

short memories ftw?

The sequence of events went like this (after everything + sink jumped in)

NC titans warped in and were bubbled, SC fleet start engaging. As more SC caps dropped in titans in trouble were ordered to jump out as soon as the were able to ie no tackle.

Titan jumped out to beacon system.
Titan was SEEN in jump out system.
Pilots view was a lagged 6nj and ghost titan but was NO LONGER being engaged as was also showing as jumped out to hostiles who has DISENGAGED.
Pilot logs off as ship is showing in jump out system.
Pilot tries to log back and is reported on TS as reappearing in 6NJ again.
Hostiles tackle and resume takedown.

IMHO neither side is wrong or right, the titan losses were not legit but then the way they reappeared isn't either, its just crappy game mechanics and the only winner is CCP's pockets as we whine and whine about crappy this and that but still pay our money every month.

Stygian Knight
Minmatar
Blood Covenant
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.07.05 14:06:00 - [785]
 

Why does this thread still exists?

Haven't you learn anything yet ?

Move on people, move on...

Damned Devil
Minmatar
Quasar Buccaneers
Legion of Honor
Posted - 2010.07.05 15:13:00 - [786]
 

Originally by: Imutep
short memories ftw?

The sequence of events went like this (after everything + sink jumped in)

NC titans warped in and were bubbled, Russian fleet start engaging. As more Russian caps dropped in titans in trouble were ordered to jump out as soon as the were able to ie no tackle.

Titan jumped out to beacon system.
Titan was SEEN in jump out system.
Pilots view was a lagged 6nj and ghost titan but was NO LONGER being engaged as was also showing as jumped out to hostiles who has DISENGAGED.
Pilot logs off as ship is showing in jump out system.
Pilot tries to log back and is reported on TS as reappearing in 6NJ again.
Hostiles tackle and resume takedown.

IMHO neither side is wrong or right, the titan losses were not legit but then the way they reappeared isn't either, its just crappy game mechanics and the only winner is CCP's pockets as we whine and whine about crappy this and that but still pay our money every month.


Fixed for you.

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.07.05 17:34:00 - [787]
 

Originally by: Imutep
short memories ftw?

The sequence of events went like this (after everything + sink jumped in)

NC titans warped in and were bubbled, SC fleet start engaging. As more SC caps dropped in titans in trouble were ordered to jump out as soon as the were able to ie no tackle.

Titan jumped out to beacon system.
Titan was SEEN in jump out system.
Pilots view was a lagged 6nj and ghost titan but was NO LONGER being engaged as was also showing as jumped out to hostiles who has DISENGAGED.
Pilot logs off as ship is showing in jump out system.
Pilot tries to log back and is reported on TS as reappearing in 6NJ again.
Hostiles tackle and resume takedown.

IMHO neither side is wrong or right, the titan losses were not legit but then the way they reappeared isn't either, its just crappy game mechanics and the only winner is CCP's pockets as we whine and whine about crappy this and that but still pay our money every month.


Just curious, but are there screenshots of the titans jumped out in safe systems, and if so do the backgrounds match the correct system?

I ask because I remember quite a while back there were problems with jump-desyncs, and the background nebula was the best indication of what system you were actually in, regardless what the system information said at the top left of the screen.

(I am genuinely interested, not trying to troll. Just want to know if this is the return of an old bug - because if it is it may be easier to squish).

hamon konakh
Gallente
Reliables Inc
Majesta Empire
Posted - 2010.07.05 18:12:00 - [788]
 

A lot of idiots in this tread who werent even in the fight.

NC got their supers back, due to game mechanics being f*ucked.

SC haters still gonna hate, why are you ******s even posting in this thread? It's not like a Dev spawing T2 BPO's (t20).

Btw, the delicious tears from the SC makes me feel pretty good. Now HTFU and close this stupid thread.

zljuka
Caldari
Dark Voodoo Cult
Red Alliance
Posted - 2010.07.06 09:25:00 - [789]
 

I just wonder if eve has already reached its peak of population and servers are out of resources. Eve is a sandbox, and the more people play eve, sandbox becomes not only bigger but more complex. Taken basically when you have two elements, you can make one link between them. If you have three elements you can link them in three ways, four elements make already six links. So every new element, for example every new active player, not simply adds but multiplies the load on server. And at some moment sandbox becomes so complex that no server is able to deal with it. Practically a 100x100 battle loads server not ten times as 10x10 fight does, but fifty or even hundred times as much.
So the question is if eve has already reached it's top of population that can't be increased adding new or improving existent servers? Or is it that CCP is so busy with dust and new expansions that they don't pay attention to current issues?

Tyby
Gallente
Nex Exercitus
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.07.06 10:42:00 - [790]
 

Edited by: Tyby on 06/07/2010 10:44:08
Edited by: Tyby on 06/07/2010 10:43:39
Originally by: hamon konakh

NC got their supers back, due to game mechanics being f*ucked.






like everyone else who lost a supercap due to f**cked game mechanics, i may ad. right?Wink



Crimsons Storm
Amarr
Born-2-Kill
WE FORM VOLTRON
Posted - 2010.07.06 11:10:00 - [791]
 

CCP being greedy and marketing Eve to the masses without an obvious plan to handle in increase in the general population and hiding behind new "look at me" features and free bait ships to distract everyone from the reality that in the past 6 years this game has gorne from good... to great... to a festering pile of c_r_@_p.

whinge much you say...obviously not enough i say.

How about investing some time into fixing the game instead of adding moar crap to the lag pile...

Back on topic.

Standard .... << is all i have to say RE cap reimbursements AND this thread in general

Snot Shot
Minmatar
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
The 0rphanage
Posted - 2010.07.06 13:12:00 - [792]
 


The Titans were bubbled and would never have been able to jump out. They died and were reimbursed by CCP with one even being taken from a hostile pilot that boarded it after DT.....thought they don't intervene...Rolling Eyes

Funny how this was the last big fleet fight anyone has had. I guess putting your Caps on the line against the NC just means you take all the risk since, if you win, NC just gets all their ships back anyways...Neutral

CCP you might want to pull your head out of the sand on this one since it's a pivotal point in the games history. Seems that aside from the usual PL supercap ganks, no one cares to light a cyno for a large fleet fight anymore...

"Dragon Fleet!!........dock up, it's not worth it.."...Crying or Very sad




Menellaix
Gallente
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.07.06 14:39:00 - [793]
 

Originally by: GM Grimmi
The underlying issue has been examined and improvements implemented that should prevent similar situations in the future.


Define improvements? I've seen nothing in the Sisi patch logs. Maybe...

a) When jump command is issued, the location system of the object is updated in database before the destination system is signalled? - or -

b) Client disconnect cancels all pending operations, including jump? - or -

c) Something else?

Nemtar Nataal
Caldari
Demonic Retribution
Posted - 2010.07.06 16:53:00 - [794]
 

Originally by: David Goodwill
Originally by: Caldrion Dosto
This is very easy tbh i canīt imagine how CCP GMīs could make a wrong turn.

If you want the result of the fight to stand and you didnīt "giveback" or respawn any capitalships then remove the duplicated ships from the game.

If logs shows them as dead KILL THEM.


And seriously this would be best in the long run for everyone, since this is bound to happen again sooner or later and i would think it would make the game suck if you respawn all capitalship loses in fights, then whats the point?




Tbh, I think the problem is that the logs show them as both alive in one system and dead in another. They are not so much ghost ships, as it seems the server code is written so that a ship exists in one system before it is deleted in another. However if a node dies or lags out before the command to delete the ships reaches them and they get destroyed, then they still exist in the system they jump to as that is how the code was written, and was presumably how the pilots were able to jump into a system, warp to a pos, take a screenshot and log off, while in the other system the code was attempting to delete the ships out of the system yet due to node death wasn't able to get there in time before they were destroyed. I expect that a little later on, after the node was working again, the code finally made it back to the pilots that the ship with the same ID as theirs was destroyed and hence removed. However once downtime hit and the server does its daily maintenance of DB cleanup and other SQL fluff, it found the ships alive in the system they were jumped to and put them back in the system. (This is however only a guess as how their code is written, as I haven't actually seen it. Only one of their SQL devs could tell you for sure, and they won't)

I would just let CCP do their job in this case. Any post by SC or NC is going to be bias in some way anyway, there are hardly any neutral observers, everyone has an agenda, so these posts should be discounted in any informed decision. Whatever they do, CCP is going to **** off one half of the debate. There will be no winners here. As far as I can see it both sides have a valid claim that the ships should be destroyed / alive.

Regardless i'm loving the tears in this thread. Keep em going! :twisted:


None of my usual GS hate comments here.

You have really got the problem nailed here, i do work in software engineering but i have never worked with a system remotely as complex as this one - But any ship only have one instance in this game then basically it can only be in one place at any one given point in time. So some where some one made an error.
Honestly i would have been bether if the ships had been removed in both systems rathen then them bieng precent in both systems.

HarrietMiers
Minmatar
Helljumpers
Dead Terrorists
Posted - 2010.07.07 04:02:00 - [795]
 

Originally by: Snot Shot
"Dragon Fleet!!........dock up, it's not worth it.."...Crying or Very sad


Post with your main or gtfo.

Metal Dude
Gallente
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.07.10 00:21:00 - [796]
 

Originally by: GM Grimmi
During the fleet-battle in 6NJ8-V on June 16th server performance was adversely affected by load issues. One of the resulting problems was the revival of ships that had been killed during the fight, including a few super-capitals. We want to clarify that this was due to database issues, which are still under investigation – the ships were NOT returned by GameMasters. This matter is still being investigated and further information will be forthcoming when available.


So when are you going to give us a ****ing update on this? Or is this another T20 **** that CCP will just sweep under the rug? Because it sure smells like it from this end ffs. What will it take to get answers that you said will be forthcoming?


Virene Mene
Caldari
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2010.07.10 02:50:00 - [797]
 

Originally by: Metal Dude

So when are you going to give us a ****ing update on this? Or is this another T20 **** that CCP will just sweep under the rug? Because it sure smells like it from this end ffs. What will it take to get answers that you said will be forthcoming?



do you seriously expect a reply?Shocked

Metal Dude
Gallente
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.07.10 03:42:00 - [798]
 

Originally by: Virene Mene
do you seriously expect a reply?Shocked


Originally by: GM Grimmi
further information will be forthcoming when available.


Captain Thunk
Amarr
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.07.10 05:19:00 - [799]
 

Originally by: Metal Dude

So when are you going to give us a ****ing update on this? Or is this another T20 **** that CCP will just sweep under the rug? Because it sure smells like it from this end ffs. What will it take to get answers that you said will be forthcoming?




Are you saying the T20 incident was swept under the rug and those that were aware of what was going on and complicit were not punished?

SavageBastard
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.07.10 05:49:00 - [800]
 

Originally by: Metal Dude
Originally by: GM Grimmi
During the fleet-battle in 6NJ8-V on June 16th server performance was adversely affected by load issues. One of the resulting problems was the revival of ships that had been killed during the fight, including a few super-capitals. We want to clarify that this was due to database issues, which are still under investigation – the ships were NOT returned by GameMasters. This matter is still being investigated and further information will be forthcoming when available.


So when are you going to give us a ****ing update on this? Or is this another T20 **** that CCP will just sweep under the rug? Because it sure smells like it from this end ffs. What will it take to get answers that you said will be forthcoming?





Aren't you in the wrong alliance to be all mad about T20?


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