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Fred0
Caldari
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.06.29 20:43:00 - [721]
 

It's becoming pretty clear CCP won't do ****. The ships jumped out. The first bug is that they respawned in 6NJ after logging off. That's when WN and CO killed them. The second bug is that they were found floating post DT the following day in their jump out system. We recollected them and gave them back to the char that had jumped it out.

CCP are looking increasingly likely to just follow their non-interference policy of whatever happens in large lag fights happens and they don't change that. Not the solution I had hoped for, someone with enough energy should certainly make a push to make them realise their folly of 0.0 large fights policy.

Mirrabela
Amarr
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.06.29 21:16:00 - [722]
 

To me it seems things are only getting worse with every patch/expansion. During the last month I've experienced something new. A few months ago we've crashed the node with about 30 ppl jumping into a 0.0 system but this time is unbelievable. About 4-5 in the past month, while scouting the systems in tenal/venal i had traffic control with only me in system. I don't know if the node is per constellation but, since i was scouting the systems, I'm pretty sure i was alone in the constellation. I dont't know if other have experienced it but this started to happened for me only in the past month. I wonder what new feature CCP introduces next :P

Scheulagh Santorine
Gallente
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2010.06.29 22:24:00 - [723]
 

Originally by: Botia Macracantha
I can't believe that CCP aren't putting effort into identifying the duff coding or whatever, but I can believe they might be reaching unpalatable (for them) conclusions over the fixes needed i.e. some or all recent feature additions would have to be removed. And since planet facilities have spread like a disease, I doubt that this will be sacrificed (for example). This, to me, explains CCP silence on this issue more clearly than the 20+ pages of rage and counter rage.

I am approaching my 7th year in the game, and sure, I have whinged a bit at changes over the years, but the extent that CCP seem unable to prioritise large scale PVP is now a serious concern for me. The recent promotional efforts are all geared towards showing a mode of gameplay that the game can no longer sustain. And yet, by not being seen to address the deficiencies in large scale combat, perhaps CCP are admitting this area of the game is unimportant to them from a revenue standpoint. Videos of rock munchers, level 4 hisec mission runners, and Jita 4-4 station market screen might be a more honest view of the current game. Someone's St. Bernard has taken a dump in the sandbox, and is doing a poor job of burying it.


Some reasonable points here. It is clear that CCP's vision of what the game should be, has exceeded their ability to execute on that vision.

Lord TGR
Minmatar
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.06.29 22:45:00 - [724]
 

Edited by: Lord TGR on 29/06/2010 23:10:21
I'm just going to put this in here to point out just how awesome they've been at QA the past year:

http://bl3h-united.com/?a=kill_related&adjacent&kll_id=177667

For when this link is removed, it's a killmail link for bl3h-united for rancer. We're looking at tons of orcas, freighters, etc etc etc etc (192 killed so far when I looked at it last time).

And why? ****ed up autopilot. Seriously, CCP, un-**** your head and ****ing do some QA. This is getting ****ing ridiculous.

Edit: So I suppose a fix for "lag/gridload/session change" isn't going to arrive any time soon.

Metal Dude
Gallente
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.06.30 04:12:00 - [725]
 

Originally by: David Goodwill
Considering DICE are regarded to be one of the most racist corps in eve I don't really see what you are getting at.



A goon calling some racist. Are you fkn kidding me or what?

Lord TGR
Minmatar
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.06.30 07:12:00 - [726]
 

Originally by: Metal Dude
A goon calling some racist. Are you fkn kidding me or what?

Productive, and relevant.

Soldur
Caldari
Hellion Hounds
Posted - 2010.06.30 17:05:00 - [727]
 

Originally by: David Goodwill
Considering DICE are regarded to be one of the most racist corps in eve I don't really see what you are getting at.



I would say spend some time in Helljumpers and see if you still agree with this statement.

pedros
Minmatar
Gaia Freelancers
Posted - 2010.06.30 17:47:00 - [728]
 

Originally by: Hyzenthlay Yarrow
Originally by: Marlona Sky
I just want some answers. But please alt, keep saying every response I do is mad or emo or bitter or whatever makes you happy. Laughing


Calm down, you're going to give yourself skin failure.



im sorry to say but this is Band of devloopers ah wait Best Friends of DevlopperS ?
is this game now big cheat ?
end transmission

Le Cardinal
Caldari
Spricer
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.07.01 06:59:00 - [729]
 

Originally by: David Goodwill
Considering DICE are regarded to be one of the most racist corps in eve I don't really see what you are getting at.

Especially since you are replying to a well written and thought out stance with a meme.


If calling Goons ***gots is being racist then guilty of charge. Other than that i think you should take a real deep look at what corp/alliance you come from because you are in no position of accusing others for being racists. Glasshouse and all that jazz. And for the record, never heard anyone mention anything racist in corp.. everything else, but no racism.

PCaBoo
Caldari
Ammo and Tag
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2010.07.01 20:50:00 - [730]
 

Still nothing, eh? =[

Lord TGR
Minmatar
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.07.02 10:02:00 - [731]
 

Nothing here but us chickens.

Mecinia Lua
Minmatar
Galactic Express
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.07.02 10:08:00 - [732]
 

There will never be a report back.

They do this on every major issue. They put up a vague semi smokescreen post. Promise to look into it and get back to us. I've never seen them once return and actually fill us in on any such topic.


Thorir
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas.
Posted - 2010.07.02 14:57:00 - [733]
 

CCP

Any news from this "investigation" ?


GM Grimmi


Gallente
Game Masters
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.07.02 15:04:00 - [734]
 

Here is an update regarding events which occurred during a large fleet engagement in 6NJ8-V which took place on June 16th.

Some ships were destroyed during the engagement, yet they also managed to jump to safety. This resulted in the ships reappearing in-game some time after they were destroyed. Our server-side logs represent both of the aforementioned circumstances and the final outcome was that the ships remained in game with the modules which were destroyed along with them despite kill reports being sent out showing their destruction. Modules moved to wrecks upon the ships' destruction were not duplicated, and the owners of the ships received insurance payouts for the losses. No game masters or CCP staff for that matter were involved with the revival of the ships in any way.

The underlying issue has been examined and improvements implemented that should prevent similar situations in the future.

Regarding fleet-battle reimbursement and GM intervention in them in general, we have been down that road before and it's not the way to go. This has been discussed in much detail and the consensus is that it is best to simply stay well clear of messing with fleet-battles; this fleet engagement is no exception and we will remain consistent in this stance. We will not be passing judgment on what should have happened during this battle nor alter the outcome in any way.

Blazde
Minmatar
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.07.02 15:13:00 - [735]
 

Originally by: GM Grimmi
Regarding fleet-battle reimbursement and GM intervention in them in general, we have been down that road before and it's not the way to go. This has been discussed in much detail and the consensus is that it is best to simply stay well clear of messing with fleet-battles

It may have been discussed within the GM dept in much detail, but you don't appear to have consulted the players / CSM at all about it. You guys obviously have an ulterior motive in not intervening because it's a lot of effort to sort through the mess when we have these node splurges.

But as you're supposed to be providing Customer Support don't you think it would be a good idea to see what your customers would prefer?

Chaosmancer
Caldari
Missions Mining and Mayhem
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.07.02 15:18:00 - [736]
 

Brace for impact

PCaBoo
Caldari
Ammo and Tag
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2010.07.02 15:29:00 - [737]
 

Originally by: GM Grimmi
Here is an update regarding events which occurred during a large fleet engagement in 6NJ8-V which took place on June 16th.

Some ships were destroyed during the engagement, yet they also managed to jump to safety. This resulted in the ships reappearing in-game some time after they were destroyed. Our server-side logs represent both of the aforementioned circumstances and the final outcome was that the ships remained in game with the modules which were destroyed along with them despite kill reports being sent out showing their destruction. Modules moved to wrecks upon the ships' destruction were not duplicated, and the owners of the ships received insurance payouts for the losses. No game masters or CCP staff for that matter were involved with the revival of the ships in any way.

The underlying issue has been examined and improvements implemented that should prevent similar situations in the future.

Regarding fleet-battle reimbursement and GM intervention in them in general, we have been down that road before and it's not the way to go. This has been discussed in much detail and the consensus is that it is best to simply stay well clear of messing with fleet-battles; this fleet engagement is no exception and we will remain consistent in this stance. We will not be passing judgment on what should have happened during this battle nor alter the outcome in any way.



It took over two weeks to come up with that? Rolling Eyes
You guys need to hire someone from the NC/SC to spin for you.

Arrador
Caldari
54th Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry
Posted - 2010.07.02 15:48:00 - [738]
 

Threadnaught is go?

Tyby
Gallente
Nex Exercitus
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.07.02 15:53:00 - [739]
 

Quote:
The underlying issue has been examined and improvements implemented that should prevent similar situations in the future.


same like first time...?

Originally by: GM Grimmi



Regarding fleet-battle reimbursement and GM intervention in them in general, we have been down that road before and it's not the way to go. This has been discussed in much detail and the consensus is that it is best to simply stay well clear of messing with fleet-battles; this fleet engagement is no exception and we will remain consistent in this stance. We will not be passing judgment on what should have happened during this battle nor alter the outcome in any way.



the only comment i can make here is that those ships where revived long,long,long,long time after the battle ended...

Also, how about insurance money? pilots that "got" theyr ships back are also keeping the insurance money?

Josiphine Noir
Amarr
Pelican.
Veneratio Venator Alliance
Posted - 2010.07.02 16:00:00 - [740]
 

Originally by: Tyby
Quote:
The underlying issue has been examined and improvements implemented that should prevent similar situations in the future.


same like first time...?

Originally by: GM Grimmi



Regarding fleet-battle reimbursement and GM intervention in them in general, we have been down that road before and it's not the way to go. This has been discussed in much detail and the consensus is that it is best to simply stay well clear of messing with fleet-battles; this fleet engagement is no exception and we will remain consistent in this stance. We will not be passing judgment on what should have happened during this battle nor alter the outcome in any way.



the only comment i can make here is that those ships where revived long,long,long,long time after the battle ended...

Also, how about insurance money? pilots that "got" theyr ships back are also keeping the insurance money?




He pretty much stated that they are not going to intervene in any way with what happened afterwards, the logs did show something on both ends to the effect of both things happened in that the ships were both destroyed and jumped out safely. Though I think all you care about is if the ships get to stay alive or not.

Rico Minali
Gallente
Sons Of 0din
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.07.02 16:13:00 - [741]
 

So when my petition for loss during a blackscreen got refused and it cost me just a few billion, that was fine to say, NO, YOU ARE JUST A CUSTOMER AND NOTHING IS WRONG WITH EVE BECAUSE GMS SAY SO.

But when the loss is a massive and game altering hundreds of billions then its ok to make sure the guys who lost the ships can have them back? Is it purely because its easier to do nothing in both cases, as is what happened, my puny few billion and the massive hundreds of billions get stuck in the same response of "NO, we will do nothing."

Seriously guys, your customer service needs a real looking at. I know the EULA has the get out clause of what ccp say goes, but really? Have you guys really understood what 'fit for purpose' really means and that the EULA wouldnt stand a chance in court if someone really got upset?

I think its time to NOT use GMs who play eve, and look at customer service from a slightly better angle.
Anyone who actually plays eve can never be impartial. Ever.

Josiphine Noir
Amarr
Pelican.
Veneratio Venator Alliance
Posted - 2010.07.02 16:54:00 - [742]
 

Edited by: Josiphine Noir on 02/07/2010 16:54:25
Originally by: Rico Minali
So when my petition for loss during a blackscreen got refused and it cost me just a few billion, that was fine to say, NO, YOU ARE JUST A CUSTOMER AND NOTHING IS WRONG WITH EVE BECAUSE GMS SAY SO.

But when the loss is a massive and game altering hundreds of billions then its ok to make sure the guys who lost the ships can have them back? Is it purely because its easier to do nothing in both cases, as is what happened, my puny few billion and the massive hundreds of billions get stuck in the same response of "NO, we will do nothing."

Seriously guys, your customer service needs a real looking at. I know the EULA has the get out clause of what ccp say goes, but really? Have you guys really understood what 'fit for purpose' really means and that the EULA wouldnt stand a chance in court if someone really got upset?

I think its time to NOT use GMs who play eve, and look at customer service from a slightly better angle.
Anyone who actually plays eve can never be impartial. Ever.


Wow, you have your head so far up you a** i'm surprised you're able to breath.
1. They did not give the NC back thier ships get that through your thick skull
2. With the rate Titans and Supercaps have been dying lately 3 Titans and a few SCs is hardly what I would consider game altering losses
3. IF they did decide to take the ships away they would be villified either way so it's aloose loose situation for them
4. You know damned well you would be fighting to keep the ships if you were in the same situation, I know you wouldnt go self destruct them because it was the "fair thing to do" and if you say otherwise you are full of s***

Morvyn
Caldari
Destry's Lounge
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2010.07.02 17:17:00 - [743]
 

Originally by: Rico Minali

Seriously guys, your customer service needs a real looking at. I know the EULA has the get out clause of what ccp say goes, but really? Have you guys really understood what 'fit for purpose' really means and that the EULA wouldnt stand a chance in court if someone really got upset?



lol, internet spaceships + court

Marlona Sky
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.07.02 18:13:00 - [744]
 

I didn't think Vuk Lau would be able to pull it off.

Congrats NC.

Straight Hustlin
Gallente
The Collective
B O R G
Posted - 2010.07.02 18:37:00 - [745]
 

Since you've stated that "We will not be passing judgment on what should have happened during this battle nor alter the outcome in any way"

Does that mean you will be returning the titan to white noise which they found unpiloted floating in space?

Or are we going on a double standard here?

Depili
Caldari
Blood Works Inc.
Circle-Of-Two
Posted - 2010.07.02 19:12:00 - [746]
 

Originally by: Straight Hustlin
Since you've stated that "We will not be passing judgment on what should have happened during this battle nor alter the outcome in any way"

Does that mean you will be returning the titan to white noise which they found unpiloted floating in space?

Or are we going on a double standard here?


Yeah, "no ships were returned by GM's" my ass

Marlona Sky
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.07.02 19:29:00 - [747]
 

Originally by: Straight Hustlin
Since you've stated that "We will not be passing judgment on what should have happened during this battle nor alter the outcome in any way"

Does that mean you will be returning the titan to white noise which they found unpiloted floating in space?

Or are we going on a double standard here?


I don't think the NC pilot that is currently sitting in it would appreciate that very much.


Kra Torii
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2010.07.02 20:59:00 - [748]
 

Originally by: Marlona Sky
I didn't think Vuk Lau would be able to pull it off.

Congrats NC.



Your Sad makes me Very Happy.

All this over a game. ugh

(Need more smilies I think)

ButImTooLittle
Caldari
Sense of Serendipity
Echoes of Nowhere
Posted - 2010.07.02 23:54:00 - [749]
 

Originally by: GM Grimmi
Here is an update regarding events which occurred during a large fleet engagement in 6NJ8-V which took place on June 16th.

Some ships were destroyed during the engagement, yet they also managed to jump to safety. This resulted in the ships reappearing in-game some time after they were destroyed. Our server-side logs represent both of the aforementioned circumstances and the final outcome was that the ships remained in game with the modules which were destroyed along with them despite kill reports being sent out showing their destruction. Modules moved to wrecks upon the ships' destruction were not duplicated, and the owners of the ships received insurance payouts for the losses. No game masters or CCP staff for that matter were involved with the revival of the ships in any way.

The underlying issue has been examined and improvements implemented that should prevent similar situations in the future.

Regarding fleet-battle reimbursement and GM intervention in them in general, we have been down that road before and it's not the way to go. This has been discussed in much detail and the consensus is that it is best to simply stay well clear of messing with fleet-battles; this fleet engagement is no exception and we will remain consistent in this stance. We will not be passing judgment on what should have happened during this battle nor alter the outcome in any way.



NOT TRUE.

about 18months or more ago there was a large fleet fight in m-0. it was during one of bobs MAX campaigns. at the time i was in KIA, the lag was terrible and lots of people logged off. KIAeddz petitioned it and said that the lag was unacceptable. ALL KIA ships were reimbursed. odd that ccp denys it. there is your precedent.

Aegis Osiris
Gallente
Peanut Factory
Posted - 2010.07.03 01:17:00 - [750]
 

If this is CCP's stance, that they will remain true to their existing policies, then:

1. Titan found should be returned to WN
2. NC supercaps survive, remain in hands of whoever found them, sans 'destroyed' modules
3. Salvaged or scooped modules from said ships remain in the hand of whoever grabbed them.
4. Any insurance payout is removed for ships that 'survived' (possible exception for the original pilot of the now-WN Titan); ships reimbursed in any way always result in removal of the insurance payout.

then close the book and wait for the next clusterf***. Crappy end? Probably, but the only one that is possible to happen.

My guess is that none of this will happen, and I would now like to submit my application to be an NC supercap pilot just before their next large engagement. Getting to keep the ship AND insurance is just too good of an incentive to give up. Who wants to hire me? :D


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