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Veronique deEstelle
Gallente
3M Industries
Posted - 2010.06.21 05:44:00 - [631]
 

Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: Ishbu
So what happens if CCP determines from Server logs that infact the ships did jump and the bug was them respawning, "ghosting", back in 6nj? That is a valid outcome as is the "ships died, ghost ships are deleted."


If that was the case then GM Grimmi's post was incorrect. He clearly states the ships had died. Which I am sure he checked the infamous logs before posting that. Why do you guys keep conveniently forgetting about his post?


He also states that they still investigating the case. Why do you guys keep reading only the part of his post that fits your agenda?

Marlona Sky
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.06.21 05:54:00 - [632]
 

Originally by: Veronique deEstelle
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: Ishbu
So what happens if CCP determines from Server logs that infact the ships did jump and the bug was them respawning, "ghosting", back in 6nj? That is a valid outcome as is the "ships died, ghost ships are deleted."


If that was the case then GM Grimmi's post was incorrect. He clearly states the ships had died. Which I am sure he checked the infamous logs before posting that. Why do you guys keep conveniently forgetting about his post?


He also states that they still investigating the case. Why do you guys keep reading only the part of his post that fits your agenda?


I already read all of his post and commented and all on everything. Perhaps you should read the whole thread before posting.

But again, right now we are just doing the waiting game. We are all tired of theorizing and such. We are simply waiting for the CCP findings. Which, no matter what happens, I am sure there will be a lot of rage. Maybe they will just wipe out every ship that was involved in the fight? Now that would be lulz.

Lord TGR
Minmatar
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.06.21 06:32:00 - [633]
 

Now that would set a nice precedent: "lag out, get your supercarrier killed, whine about it and get EVERY ship wiped out, including your enemies".

I know EVE is supposed to be harsh, but let's not get too carried away. Laughing

(In case it's not obvious from the text, this is mostly joking.)

Murauke
Caldari
EvE Cookie Collective
Posted - 2010.06.21 08:03:00 - [634]
 

Anyone got any answers from CCP yet on this?

Answers i do not wish to read: NC are BFF's with GM's or any 541t along that line, i am more bothered at reading what CCP are doing to keep my business as the state of the game at the moment is not worth my hard earn cash i am more than confident that there are a lot of other 0.0, pvp characters that are just as unhappy too regardless of which alliance you play the game.

remember ladies and gents its a game!

Tyby
Gallente
Nex Exercitus
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.06.21 08:36:00 - [635]
 

i've seen allot of nc ppl claiming on this topic "we lost due to lag"; just to be clear, few "corections" are needed:
Quote:

- NC Supercaps, support and caps were on battlefield before our(WN) super fleet, loaded and fighted agains our BSs

- We warped in to their grid and loaded after risking to lose everything in lag or be divided and shooted with several parts

- NC watched at our not-loaded supercaps and started to think how to get away of this ***t, planning to save themselves.

- Panic and cowardice were causes of NC losing this battle


so, in fact, the lagmonster was on nc side at the starting point.Cool

also,tinfoil hat on, those "ghost" titans killed in battle buyed allot of time for nc to get the rest of theyr supercap fleet out of the field....Wink

Ace Frehley
Minmatar
Mercenaries of Andosia
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.06.21 10:00:00 - [636]
 

I have a question that i havnt got answeard in this gigantic posting madness

If I go to a bar (we talkin RL now people) and I go to a random girl of choice and out myself to be Shadoo in eve, how much bigger is the chance I get laid instead of saying Im Ace Frehley in Eve? I wanna know if it worth it pretending be an angry finish FC or not Cool

Lofe sXe
Caldari
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.21 10:25:00 - [637]
 

Originally by: Ace Frehley
I have a question that i havnt got answeard in this gigantic posting madness

If I go to a bar (we talkin RL now people) and I go to a random girl of choice and out myself to be Shadoo in eve, how much bigger is the chance I get laid instead of saying Im Ace Frehley in Eve? I wanna know if it worth it pretending be an angry finish FC or not Cool


sure you cannot pretend to be a good poster

Ace Frehley
Minmatar
Mercenaries of Andosia
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.06.21 10:35:00 - [638]
 

Originally by: Lofe sXe
Originally by: Ace Frehley
I have a question that i havnt got answeard in this gigantic posting madness

If I go to a bar (we talkin RL now people) and I go to a random girl of choice and out myself to be Shadoo in eve, how much bigger is the chance I get laid instead of saying Im Ace Frehley in Eve? I wanna know if it worth it pretending be an angry finish FC or not Cool


sure you cannot pretend to be a good poster


I havent found a good poster, so I can pretend beeing him... cuz you sure arnt one....

Faekurias
Caldari
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2010.06.21 10:36:00 - [639]
 

Is there really nothing else to talk/spam about? Nothing else going on whatsoever?

Myz Toyou
Minmatar
the Organ Grinder and Company
Posted - 2010.06.21 10:53:00 - [640]
 

Originally by: Faekurias
Is there really nothing else to talk/spam about? Nothing else going on whatsoever?


I farted earlier and it smelled awful, wanna disguss ?

Meno Theaetetus
Gallente
Wildly Inappropriate
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2010.06.21 11:30:00 - [641]
 

My last post in this migraine of a thread.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACID

CATTYS
Caldari
The Ankou
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.06.21 13:42:00 - [642]
 

jesus after reading 20 pages I have a terrible headache....so at the end nc titans are....
1. some really lose
2. some are back..via unknown jove bleasing intervention

so hope this threat will end....22 page is already 2 much

gm close plz....Rolling Eyes

Tyby
Gallente
Nex Exercitus
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.06.21 13:49:00 - [643]
 

Originally by: CATTYS
jesus after reading 20 pages I have a terrible headache....so at the end nc titans are....
1. some really lose
2. some are back..via unknown jove bleasing intervention

so hope this threat will end....22 page is already 2 much

gm close plz....Rolling Eyes


jove blessing has nothing to do with it Wink

Hagen Stein
Minmatar
Biotronics Inc.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.06.21 14:38:00 - [644]
 

Edited by: Hagen Stein on 21/06/2010 14:51:10
Originally by: Snot Shot

How can anyone even be sure that the ships were able to jump out and were not bubbled at the time?


From what I've gathered by reading this thread: the target system did load for those pilots. IIRC, there was even one screenshot taken from th target system by one pilot.

Which shouldn't be the case, if they were bubbled and thus were unable to jump.

[Added]
After reading the following posts, it might be possible that they were bubbled (from the bubbler's perspective) and also were not bubbled (from the capital pilot's perspective), if the client decides about its condition, not the server - which would be a really bad mistake for an MMO: the client never decides anything!

Yahuang Doujiao
Gallente
The Phallacy
Posted - 2010.06.21 15:43:00 - [645]
 

Originally by: Hagen Stein
Edited by: Hagen Stein on 21/06/2010 14:51:10
[Added]
After reading the following posts, it might be possible that they were bubbled (from the bubbler's perspective) and also were not bubbled (from the capital pilot's perspective), if the client decides about its condition, not the server - which would be a really bad mistake for an MMO: the client never decides anything!


I don't think that's possible. One of the reasons it's nigh impossible to cheat in Eve is because, as you said, the client doesn't decide anything.

Tyby
Gallente
Nex Exercitus
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.06.21 16:31:00 - [646]
 

Originally by: Hagen Stein
Edited by: Hagen Stein on 21/06/2010 14:51:10
Originally by: Snot Shot

How can anyone even be sure that the ships were able to jump out and were not bubbled at the time?


From what I've gathered by reading this thread: the target system did load for those pilots. IIRC, there was even one screenshot taken from th target system by one pilot.

Which shouldn't be the case, if they were bubbled and thus were unable to jump.



the NC super cap was way larger then 6 titans and 2 sc; then what happent with the rest of the fleet? they cynoed out well and fine.

also:
Quote:
Our supercap fleet primary is Ragnarok Sala Cameron, leader of NC titan wing accoring to our spy info. Titan was jumped out and our thoughts is "that something goes wrong" Actually pilot is very skilled and lucky guy - he was bumped out of main NC titans and was far away of thir main fleet. Our damage from not fully loaded supercaps haven't been too big to kill him fast. This guy actually had a steel balls, after his jumping out, pilot again cynoed in system and could see how we killed those who were under his commands.


from this batlereport, we find that at least one titan cynoed out and back in, on the battlefield, so the "cynoing out bug" theory don't hold watter; he was untackled, and succesfully cynoed out;
also vast majority of nc sc cynoed out with no problems; the only supercapitals that where "ruberbanded" back to the sistem where the scrambled/bubbled ones.

Thorir
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas.
Posted - 2010.06.21 21:28:00 - [647]
 

bump ?

PCaBoo
Caldari
Ammo and Tag
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2010.06.22 00:26:00 - [648]
 

So I guess the following no longer applies? Cuz I got a bunch of ships I lost, that I would like to repetition :D

Quote:
Hi, If you are part of a fleet engagement, being in the same system, we cannot reimburse, no matter the condition of our server. If we start reimbursing in those conditions than any party can force reimbursement by simply getting enough pilots to produce lag or any other side effect of a heavy load. That means we would have to reimburse any and all losses from every fleet engagement, including changes to sovereignty or the loss of sovereignty structures. Our petition system and reimbursement policy would become a tool for in game parties to defend their assets or to manipulate the political and military landscape. For these reasons we cannot deviate from our policy and for these reasons we cannot reimburse any losses suffered from a fleet battle. With kind regards, GM ####### The EVE Online Customer Support Team CCP Games

Daedhead
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.06.22 01:43:00 - [649]
 

Originally by: PCaBoo
So I guess the following no longer applies? Cuz I got a bunch of ships I lost, that I would like to repetition :D

Quote:
Hi, If you are part of a fleet engagement, being in the same system, we cannot reimburse, no matter the condition of our server. If we start reimbursing in those conditions than any party can force reimbursement by simply getting enough pilots to produce lag or any other side effect of a heavy load. That means we would have to reimburse any and all losses from every fleet engagement, including changes to sovereignty or the loss of sovereignty structures. Our petition system and reimbursement policy would become a tool for in game parties to defend their assets or to manipulate the political and military landscape. For these reasons we cannot deviate from our policy and for these reasons we cannot reimburse any losses suffered from a fleet battle. With kind regards, GM ####### The EVE Online Customer Support Team CCP Games



Actually this very policy is why CCP won't remove the duped titans.

Marlona Sky
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.06.22 02:03:00 - [650]
 

Originally by: Daedhead
Originally by: PCaBoo
So I guess the following no longer applies? Cuz I got a bunch of ships I lost, that I would like to repetition :D

Quote:
Hi, If you are part of a fleet engagement, being in the same system, we cannot reimburse, no matter the condition of our server. If we start reimbursing in those conditions than any party can force reimbursement by simply getting enough pilots to produce lag or any other side effect of a heavy load. That means we would have to reimburse any and all losses from every fleet engagement, including changes to sovereignty or the loss of sovereignty structures. Our petition system and reimbursement policy would become a tool for in game parties to defend their assets or to manipulate the political and military landscape. For these reasons we cannot deviate from our policy and for these reasons we cannot reimburse any losses suffered from a fleet battle. With kind regards, GM ####### The EVE Online Customer Support Team CCP Games



Actually this very policy is why CCP won't remove the duped titans.


You are assuming an awful lot there. They are investigating are they not?

This entire thread is nothing but people that are part of the NC or fan boys that are hoping CCP does not remove the ships that appeared after DT, and people that are part of the SC or fan boys that are hoping CCP does remove the ships that appeared after DT.

Lets just wait for the findings from the investigation. How many days has it been anyways?

Daedhead
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.06.22 02:24:00 - [651]
 

Originally by: Marlona Sky

You are assuming an awful lot there.



Not really, I'm assuming that the duped titans are a result of lag and bad coding. If that's the case, then CCP won't go against their own rules and precedent and the NC will keep their titans. It's really not that complicated.


PCaBoo
Caldari
Ammo and Tag
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2010.06.22 02:27:00 - [652]
 

Originally by: Marlona Sky

This entire thread is nothing but people that are part of the NC or fan boys that are hoping CCP does not remove the ships that appeared after DT, and people that are part of the SC or fan boys that are hoping CCP does remove the ships that appeared after DT.

Lets just wait for the findings from the investigation. How many days has it been anyways?


confirming that I hate the NC. FU NC!
It has only been a few days, but i'm betting CCP drags this along and/or never responds.

Darth Kailyn
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.06.22 03:33:00 - [653]
 

Edited by: Darth Kailyn on 22/06/2010 03:51:23



You are assuming an awful lot there. They are investigating are they not?

This entire thread is nothing but people that are part of the NC or fan boys that are hoping CCP does not remove the ships that appeared after DT, and people that are part of the SC or fan boys that are hoping CCP does remove the ships that appeared after DT.

Lets just wait for the findings from the investigation. How many days has it been anyways?




Apparently I missed something, but 17 pages of this "NC" thread is filled with SC talking about NC tears. then it switched to SC crying "Oh God the NC is BFF's with the GM's! CRY!!!!!!!1!! Very Happy PRZ mister GM's don't give them back their titanz!!!!


Posting in this magical place where there is invisible NC poasters crying about titans dying, and the SC chestbeating it into a pulp after yet another dissapointing "were gonna break up the north campaign."

I know im a terrible poster. Carry on gents.Very Happy

Veronique deEstelle
Gallente
3M Industries
Posted - 2010.06.22 04:37:00 - [654]
 

Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: Veronique deEstelle
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: Ishbu
So what happens if CCP determines from Server logs that infact the ships did jump and the bug was them respawning, "ghosting", back in 6nj? That is a valid outcome as is the "ships died, ghost ships are deleted."


If that was the case then GM Grimmi's post was incorrect. He clearly states the ships had died. Which I am sure he checked the infamous logs before posting that. Why do you guys keep conveniently forgetting about his post?


He also states that they still investigating the case. Why do you guys keep reading only the part of his post that fits your agenda?


I already read all of his post and commented and all on everything. Perhaps you should read the whole thread before posting.




As I see it you did interpret his post... exept the part where it says that the matter is still under investigation.
And yes, I read the whole thread so I also found your post where you bolded the parts important to you. I just kinda disagree with your choice.

Botia Macracantha
Minmatar
Volition Cult
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.06.22 05:32:00 - [655]
 

OK, I have a question or two (coz I haven't seen anything posted to this effect), but has anyone asked about the tactics that the original "well constructed trap" was based on ?

Looking at descriptions of the numbers of ships (much fewer in number) deployed to take on the NC fleet, surely they were planning to rely on grid loading issues to kill the larger incoming forces?

And so my second question is, at what point does this become an exploit, knowing what the outcome of logonski of forces in system would be ? (yes there is a post up there somewhere that implied a good portion of the anti-NC forces logged on when the NC Titan forces jumped in - leaving their already loaded "bait" fleet to own the field).

End of the day, we all missed out on being part of an epic fight thanks to the state of the game in recent months. If both sides had fully loaded, who knows what might have happened ? My frustration was sitting for 4 hours trying to load, eventually flying out without firing a shot. As for the SuperCaps, I am not going to add to the debate over which was the false spawn - this was a symptom of a failing game, the root cause fix is of more interest - assuming CCP are going to deliver one ...

I can't believe that CCP aren't putting effort into identifying the duff coding or whatever, but I can believe they might be reaching unpalatable (for them) conclusions over the fixes needed i.e. some or all recent feature additions would have to be removed. And since planet facilities have spread like a disease, I doubt that this will be sacrificed (for example). This, to me, explains CCP silence on this issue more clearly than the 20+ pages of rage and counter rage.

I am approaching my 7th year in the game, and sure, I have whinged a bit at changes over the years, but the extent that CCP seem unable to prioritise large scale PVP is now a serious concern for me. The recent promotional efforts are all geared towards showing a mode of gameplay that the game can no longer sustain. And yet, by not being seen to address the deficiencies in large scale combat, perhaps CCP are admitting this area of the game is unimportant to them from a revenue standpoint. Videos of rock munchers, level 4 hisec mission runners, and Jita 4-4 station market screen might be a more honest view of the current game. Someone's St. Bernard has taken a dump in the sandbox, and is doing a poor job of burying it.

Dear CCP, unless your plan is to p1ss enough people off so that the load on the servers reduces through natural wastage, please, please, scale back work on DUST, walking in stations, and planet humping v1.02, and accelerate (get to?) work on 0.0 fleet / sov warefare so SC and NC can get back to slapping each other around in whatever numbers they choose to field.

Of course, if the issues above aren't a priority because it doesn't get more money in the game, carry on. I for one dont need all the accounts I currently run for such a game, and I guess I am not alone. Don't be surprised if you see an increase in toon shuffling / account consolidation from PVPers if the game continues to fail them.

Lord TGR
Minmatar
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.06.22 07:02:00 - [656]
 

Originally by: Marlona Sky
Lets just wait for the findings from the investigation. How many days has it been anyways?

Not enough, and too much, both at the same time.

Gertrud ToD
Minmatar
Terrorists of Dimensions
Electric Monkey Overlords
Posted - 2010.06.22 07:31:00 - [657]
 

Originally by: Marlona Sky

Multiple people said the battlefield was bubbled to hell and back.


bubble exploits!!!

Tyby
Gallente
Nex Exercitus
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.06.22 07:52:00 - [658]
 

Edited by: Tyby on 22/06/2010 08:00:08
Originally by: Botia Macracantha

OK, I have a question or two (coz I haven't seen anything posted to this effect), but has anyone asked about the tactics that the original "well constructed trap" was based on ?

Looking at descriptions of the numbers of ships (much fewer in number) deployed to take on the NC fleet, surely they were planning to rely on grid loading issues to kill the larger incoming forces?

And so my second question is, at what point does this become an exploit, knowing what the outcome of logonski of forces in system would be ? (yes there is a post up there somewhere that implied a good portion of the anti-NC forces logged on when the NC Titan forces jumped in - leaving their already loaded "bait" fleet to own the field).



there was no logosky trap involved:

Quote:
We started cyno at our pos for conter-hotdrop; we started cyno after all NC supercaps where on the battlefield, countered and bubbled. Our supercaps alligned to bv- gate and WARP IN GRID WHERE ALL NC SUPERCAPS AND CAPS ARE ALREADY LOADED and grid was full of drones.


Fight started at bv- gate, nc bs fleets where fighting WN+Co2+RA bs fleets; then nc , like usuall, cynoed theyr cap/supercap fleet on top of those bs fleetsNeutral

WN supercap fleet cynoed in sistem after the nc fleet, but not on the battlefield(like nc fleet), they cynoed at WN tower, loaded sistem, and then warped to BV- gate where the battle was already started
Also 6nj it's rebelion home sistem, tere is no way someone will be able to logoff there a capitall fleet without anyone noticing it Wink

btw, you can find the larger br on shc Embarassed

gala gidas
Amarr
Parental Control
HELL4S
Posted - 2010.06.22 07:57:00 - [659]
 

People move on...
the thread was getting boring from page 10..now its just sad...

Zuquar Bonaparte
Gallente
New Dawn Corporation
Circle-Of-Two
Posted - 2010.06.22 10:39:00 - [660]
 

Originally by: Botia Macracantha
OK, I have a question or two (coz I haven't seen anything posted to this effect), but has anyone asked about the tactics that the original "well constructed trap" was based on ?

Looking at descriptions of the numbers of ships (much fewer in number) deployed to take on the NC fleet, surely they were planning to rely on grid loading issues to kill the larger incoming forces?

And so my second question is, at what point does this become an exploit, knowing what the outcome of logonski of forces in system would be ? (yes there is a post up there somewhere that implied a good portion of the anti-NC forces logged on when the NC Titan forces jumped in - leaving their already loaded "bait" fleet to own the field).




first off all there is a battlereport on scrapheap you should try read, about a well planned attack from WN and friends.the trap did not involve counting on lag issues but the fact that NC thru weeks have been useing titans like battleships .
2nd , if this should be an exploit to use lag and loading problems as a tactic then maybe you should petition Nc for useing that as there main tactic thruout the time that has gone since dominion was introduced.
about outnumberd , i can only say that many from WN side never even got on any killmails as they never loaded grid or targets to infact get a shot off on anything, myself included. you state that the logonski was an effort to cause load problems, but the truth is that loggin off titan pilots so the enemy can not see they are online is the only way to get NC to actually fall for the bait it was, as every serious FC has knowledge of the other sides online titans, and it was done so NC thought they was safe to use there titan bs fleet as the battlereport allso will show you.

i am not trying to troll for any side on this, yes there are big issues with the server when it comes to battles like this, and it needs to be dealt with no matter who gets to keep there ships or them being removed from the game.

I totally agree about CCP should put more effort into fixing these issues, iv said for years now that expansion every year is a bad thing and the only thing CCP really cares about is winning the game off the year award so they can sell more accounts, wich is why my advise to everyone would be stop voting on diffrent sites for eve to be the best game ever every year until they actually fix such issues, as all you actually are doing is help CCP get more customers and care less about fixing issues.
Once they start fixing issues like this and bugs that has been in game for years , then i think everyone again should vote this game for game of the year award as it is an absolutely awesome game if there wasnt such a big amount of frustration involved for ppl that love it as much as you and I aparently do.



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