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Onar Maldarian
Caldari
WALLTREIPERS
Atlas.
Posted - 2010.06.19 22:48:00 - [571]
 

So main conclusion of all this threadnaught would be that when CCP knows something is broken, if it doesn't get into forums they won't do anything to fix it and keep adding new stupid and useless things to the game until it goes public and it starts getting bad PR. That says A LOT on how they do things and it will kill this game sooner or later if they don't change it.

To all the people talking sh*t about NC, they deserve all my respect for going public with this, unlike others did, forcing the terrible devs we have right now to focus on the issue and "customer support" (yeah right) to take an 'official' position.

--

Pudgy McFudge
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.06.19 23:02:00 - [572]
 

First page in an epic thread YARRRR!!Twisted EvilYARRRR!!Twisted Evil

Meno Theaetetus
Gallente
Wildly Inappropriate
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2010.06.19 23:37:00 - [573]
 


(hurf)

Someone debunk this for me.

When the ships went to jump out, although the consumption of fuel and cap is un-provable, what could be classed as proof is the location of where the ships were found.

It seems obvious that the relationship between the location were the ships were found un-piloted is evidence between the cap and its exit cyno. If the ships had not been able to jump out due to tackle, the correlation between un-piloted 'ghost' ship and its exit cyno would be inexplicable.

Itís a well known bug that if a ship jumps to a beacon, if the beacon becomes unavailable for some reason during the transfer, ie the ship logs off, the beacon goes down etc, the server will freak out and most of the time drop you at the same position in space in the target system as were you jumped from, sometimes it just drops you at some random point in space.

What's important is that the ships landed in the same system they tried to jump to, they must have been stuck in some kind of proxy or buffer between systems, perhaps this was even what caused the system crashes during the downtime before the ships were found, the buffers were cleared and the ships stuck in limbo appeared in the system they should have appeared in the day before.

tldr - the ships appeared were they did because under normal game mechanic they would have successfully jumped out to safety, and therefore would not have been killed.

(/hurf)

Midge Mo'yb
Caldari
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.06.19 23:39:00 - [574]
 

Originally by: Meno Theaetetus

(hurf)

Someone debunk this for me.

When the ships went to jump out, although the consumption of fuel and cap is un-provable, what could be classed as proof is the location of where the ships were found.

It seems obvious that the relationship between the location were the ships were found un-piloted is evidence between the cap and its exit cyno. If the ships had not been able to jump out due to tackle, the correlation between un-piloted 'ghost' ship and its exit cyno would be inexplicable.

Itís a well known bug that if a ship jumps to a beacon, if the beacon becomes unavailable for some reason during the transfer, ie the ship logs off, the beacon goes down etc, the server will freak out and most of the time drop you at the same position in space in the target system as were you jumped from, sometimes it just drops you at some random point in space.

What's important is that the ships landed in the same system they tried to jump to, they must have been stuck in some kind of proxy or buffer between systems, perhaps this was even what caused the system crashes during the downtime before the ships were found, the buffers were cleared and the ships stuck in limbo appeared in the system they should have appeared in the day before.

tldr - the ships appeared were they did because under normal game mechanic they would have successfully jumped out to safety, and therefore would not have been killed.

(/hurf)



and the modules missing from these "ghost ships" being exactly the same as the modules that were dropped in the wrecks isnt conclusive proof that they were killed?

Rakessh
Caldari
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.06.20 01:22:00 - [575]
 

Originally by: Metal Dude
Originally by: Tiger's Spirit

So just stfu and using your brain.


Maybe you should learn English before you start talking about brains, genius.

As for your analogy, are you saying that nobody ever lost a capital to lag desinc while trying to jump out of system in the past 7 months? I know for a fact that SC did, we just don't whine about it, we move on. I never heard of any ships spawning back after downtime after they lost them till now. Again, no one ever got their ships back except PL and now NC. That smells like a rat to me.



Not so sure rolling over and taking it rather than complain is much better either... CCP needs to fix it so it's a non-issue.

fatherted1989
Caldari
Red Horizon Inc
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2010.06.20 01:28:00 - [576]
 

Originally by: Lord TGR
I love how you bunch of ***gots always keep focusing on who lost something, instead of how that something was lost. When PL lost their titans and caps, everyone went "YOU KNEW WHAT YOU WENT INTO, YOU DESERVE IT *****". Same when Atlas lost their entire capfleet. And when CVA lost their capfleet. And when IT/AAA/Atlas lost their ships in h-w. And now when the NC lost 6 titans. The difference with the last situation is that apparently there's a scenario where there can be a desync between 2 nodes, where the old node probably had enough CPU power (or whatever, I don't care) to initiate transfer over to the other system/node, and the new node initiated ownership of said ship, but somewhere along the line the old system never got to the point where it actually removed its idea of owning the ships so they reappeared. I don't know the technical details behind this, and I honestly don't care, but people are focusing more on who it happened to, rather than what actually happened, and how this can be avoided.

Some morons keep saying "you ***s are all about the blob, it's your fault" or "you knew there were 200-400 on the other side, it's your fault for jumping in" or something equally moronic, while ignoring the fact that we've had 2000+ in system before and fighting wasn't all that horrible. These days we have reports of people not loading grid with as fewer than 100 in local if you're really unlucky. How few will we really have to reduce our fleets to before the "you knew what you got yourself into" meme can't apply anymore? 200v200? 100v100? 50v50? Or is this game now really so bad that if the opposing fleet gets more than, say, 100 into a system, the FCs might as well open up a petition on determining the outcome of a fight which is automated and essentially just flips a coin, so we don't have to suffer through blackscreening?

For ****s sake, take your collective heads out of your asses and ignore the fact that this **** is happening to "your enemies", and realize that it is happening to "us". It is a problem that's happening to everyone, and next time it'll probably be your turn. And this all began with Dominion. Some change CCP did back then is the cause, and CCP needs to figure this out and fix it. It should not be the players who need to judge whether or not to jump into a system merely because the enemy got sufficient numbers in there first. The only reason you should have for not jumping into a system should be that the fleet you have is either too small compared to the opposing fleet, or not the correct counter to the opposing side's fleet.

If you can't see beyond the hate and realize this, you're literally ******ed.


Thread should have ended here, no?

Cloned S0ul
Caldari
Blood Fanatics
Posted - 2010.06.20 01:43:00 - [577]
 

20 pages of tears, stfu all and wait for big serwer upgarde, three day left... go to dev blog.

Caladain Barton
Amarr
Navy of Xoc
The Remnant Legion
Posted - 2010.06.20 02:46:00 - [578]
 

Originally by: Cloned S0ul
20 pages of tears, stfu all and wait for big serwer upgarde, three day left... go to dev blog.


dev in devblog said it won't help lag in the slightest, or fix any of the current issues.

Marlona Sky
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.06.20 02:46:00 - [579]
 

Edited by: Marlona Sky on 20/06/2010 02:47:31
Originally by: Meno Theaetetus

(hurf)

Someone debunk this for me.

When the ships went to jump out, although the consumption of fuel and cap is un-provable, what could be classed as proof is the location of where the ships were found.

It seems obvious that the relationship between the location were the ships were found un-piloted is evidence between the cap and its exit cyno. If the ships had not been able to jump out due to tackle, the correlation between un-piloted 'ghost' ship and its exit cyno would be inexplicable.

Itís a well known bug that if a ship jumps to a beacon, if the beacon becomes unavailable for some reason during the transfer, ie the ship logs off, the beacon goes down etc, the server will freak out and most of the time drop you at the same position in space in the target system as were you jumped from, sometimes it just drops you at some random point in space.

What's important is that the ships landed in the same system they tried to jump to, they must have been stuck in some kind of proxy or buffer between systems, perhaps this was even what caused the system crashes during the downtime before the ships were found, the buffers were cleared and the ships stuck in limbo appeared in the system they should have appeared in the day before.

tldr - the ships appeared were they did because under normal game mechanic they would have successfully jumped out to safety, and therefore would not have been killed.

(/hurf)



Ok, I present the CCP Game Master reply in this thread, bolding for you:

Originally by: GM Grimmi
During the fleet-battle in 6NJ8-V on June 16th server performance was adversely affected by load issues. One of the resulting problems was the revival (meaning it was dead and then brought back to life) of ships that had been killed during the fight, including a few super-capitals. We want to clarify that this was due to database issues, which are still under investigation Ė the ships were NOT returned by GameMasters. This matter is still being investigated and further information will be forthcoming when available.


CCP Game Master's words ladies and gentlemen. API verified kill mails went out. They are investigating why the above revival of the ships, including the super-capitals happened.

The lag is horrible for everyone. I hope that it ends soon.

On a related story, I lost a Proteus in a mission sometime and made a thread about it (can't find it now) because... on my end, I made it out in structure and warped to a station. When in fact, I did lose it, and the ship I had was a ghost. I was stuck at the station, in Dodixie I think. Anyways, I petitioned, GM informed me that I was in a 'ghost' ship and the Proteus did die. "But I am here in it now, everyone at the station can see me in the ship, so it must be a real ship." I said.

Moments later, a Jove ship appeared next to me. "Thank God a GM is here to help me out." I thought to myself. And help me out he did, I was vaporized for all to see, even people talking about the Jove ship wasting me local. Embarassed

I was still stuck in the Proteus and had to wait till DT for them to sort it out. I lost the Proteus but they had to investigate and fix the problem, just like what is happening now. Anyways, cool story bro and all but not much we can do now but wait till CCP says why the ships were revived.

Those that are currently in the ghost ships, watch your scanner for Jove please. Razz

Meno Theaetetus
Gallente
Wildly Inappropriate
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2010.06.20 02:59:00 - [580]
 

Edited by: Meno Theaetetus on 20/06/2010 03:04:25
Originally by: Midge Mo'yb
Originally by: Meno Theaetetus

(hurf)

Someone debunk this for me.

When the ships went to jump out, although the consumption of fuel and cap is un-provable, what could be classed as proof is the location of where the ships were found.

It seems obvious that the relationship between the location were the ships were found un-piloted is evidence between the cap and its exit cyno. If the ships had not been able to jump out due to tackle, the correlation between un-piloted 'ghost' ship and its exit cyno would be inexplicable.

Itís a well known bug that if a ship jumps to a beacon, if the beacon becomes unavailable for some reason during the transfer, ie the ship logs off, the beacon goes down etc, the server will freak out and most of the time drop you at the same position in space in the target system as were you jumped from, sometimes it just drops you at some random point in space.

What's important is that the ships landed in the same system they tried to jump to, they must have been stuck in some kind of proxy or buffer between systems, perhaps this was even what caused the system crashes during the downtime before the ships were found, the buffers were cleared and the ships stuck in limbo appeared in the system they should have appeared in the day before.

tldr - the ships appeared were they did because under normal game mechanic they would have successfully jumped out to safety, and therefore would not have been killed.

(/hurf)



and the modules missing from these "ghost ships" being exactly the same as the modules that were dropped in the wrecks isnt conclusive proof that they were killed?


Is an interesting point, I'm not trying disprove that the ships 'were' killed, only that they should have been able to jump out, and essentially did. The module story does seem to suggest that some action was taken by ccp to resolve the fact that some of the modules associated with the ships had been destroyed shortly after downtime. Makes me think even more that this was the cause of the problems with systems crashing after the downtime.

As far as keeping the ships? I think it's far more likely the loot from the ships should be removed rather than the ships, at the end of the day those ships should have loaded their exit systems. It seems fair that based on ccp's no reimbursement stance that no action should be taken at all.

edit: for Marlona's sake.

Again I'm not saying that ships didn't die, I think that's obvious from the killmails. How do you explain the fact that the ghost ships were found in the systems that they had attempted to jump to?

LadyScarlet
Minmatar
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.06.20 04:34:00 - [581]
 

Originally by: Meno Theaetetus
Edited by: Meno Theaetetus on 20/06/2010 03:04:25
Originally by: Midge Mo'yb
Originally by: Meno Theaetetus

(hurf)

Someone debunk this for me.

When the ships went to jump out, although the consumption of fuel and cap is un-provable, what could be classed as proof is the location of where the ships were found.

It seems obvious that the relationship between the location were the ships were found un-piloted is evidence between the cap and its exit cyno. If the ships had not been able to jump out due to tackle, the correlation between un-piloted 'ghost' ship and its exit cyno would be inexplicable.

Itís a well known bug that if a ship jumps to a beacon, if the beacon becomes unavailable for some reason during the transfer, ie the ship logs off, the beacon goes down etc, the server will freak out and most of the time drop you at the same position in space in the target system as were you jumped from, sometimes it just drops you at some random point in space.

What's important is that the ships landed in the same system they tried to jump to, they must have been stuck in some kind of proxy or buffer between systems, perhaps this was even what caused the system crashes during the downtime before the ships were found, the buffers were cleared and the ships stuck in limbo appeared in the system they should have appeared in the day before.

tldr - the ships appeared were they did because under normal game mechanic they would have successfully jumped out to safety, and therefore would not have been killed.

(/hurf)



and the modules missing from these "ghost ships" being exactly the same as the modules that were dropped in the wrecks isnt conclusive proof that they were killed?


Is an interesting point, I'm not trying disprove that the ships 'were' killed, only that they should have been able to jump out, and essentially did. The module story does seem to suggest that some action was taken by ccp to resolve the fact that some of the modules associated with the ships had been destroyed shortly after downtime. Makes me think even more that this was the cause of the problems with systems crashing after the downtime.

As far as keeping the ships? I think it's far more likely the loot from the ships should be removed rather than the ships, at the end of the day those ships should have loaded their exit systems. It seems fair that based on ccp's no reimbursement stance that no action should be taken at all.

edit: for Marlona's sake.

Again I'm not saying that ships didn't die, I think that's obvious from the killmails. How do you explain the fact that the ghost ships were found in the systems that they had attempted to jump to?




Look we all understand that the game lately has been running poor you wont find a single person who has played it disagree with that especially those who been around since the early days and has seen every patch.

You can debate this till everyone is blue in the face, however just waving your hands up saying "oh well they got free ships now" is not acceptable to every person who has lost a ship in lag when the " our logs don't show anything " excuse is thrown out daily . IN this case you have logs which is clearly shown by GM Grimmis post a bug that has allowed them to get ghost ships which in the past has been blown up by GMS and has not happen yet. The rules need to be clear and same for all.

Usually at DT any ghost ships and pods that have been left over from a battle are done away with and typically you cant lock them or even get in them. In this case it was the opposite.




Caladain Barton
Amarr
Navy of Xoc
The Remnant Legion
Posted - 2010.06.20 05:02:00 - [582]
 

Edited by: Caladain Barton on 20/06/2010 05:04:17
Originally by: LadyScarlet



Look we all understand that the game lately has been running poor you wont find a single person who has played it disagree with that especially those who been around since the early days and has seen every patch.

You can debate this till everyone is blue in the face, however just waving your hands up saying "oh well they got free ships now" is not acceptable to every person who has lost a ship in lag when the " our logs don't show anything " excuse is thrown out daily . IN this case you have logs which is clearly shown by GM Grimmis post a bug that has allowed them to get ghost ships which in the past has been blown up by GMS and has not happen yet. The rules need to be clear and same for all.

Usually at DT any ghost ships and pods that have been left over from a battle are done away with and typically you cant lock them or even get in them. In this case it was the opposite.






Except of course when Sov swaps hands without a single reinforcement timer. CCP acknowledges this shouldn't have happened, it was a bug, but tough ****, everyone has to live with what has happened.

I honestly think they cyno'ed out successfully. In P-2 our capital pilots couldn't cyno out of system..click the beacon, jump, and it showed you jumping/consuming fuel. You'd then crash, and your ship would reappear sitting idle on grid.

Sounds like something similar happened..if Fuel was consumed, then they cyno'ed out while not being jammed/bubbled. Everything after that is the server ****ing up. Sounds like the desto system acknowledged and placed them on grid, but the departing system didn't get the confirmation that they had left and left their ships out to get killed. But CCP has said on multiple occassions "Good, bad, ugly, we won't fix server ****ups in relation to alliance warfare". This is so they can be "impartial". Otherwise, they'd have to fix every blackscreened fleet who died in a fire, and fix the sov ****ups when they happen (including removing people's stuff from stations that shouldn't have switched, etc)

If CCP is going to stay hands off, then they stay hands off. IF they aren't, THEN they should apply their favoritism equally.

Owait, Eve was made for BOB, forgot. Carry on.

Mya ElleTerego
Amarr
The Hull Miners Union
Posted - 2010.06.20 05:33:00 - [583]
 

Originally by: Caladain Barton
Edited by: Caladain Barton on 20/06/2010 05:04:17
Originally by: LadyScarlet



Look we all understand that the game lately has been running poor you wont find a single person who has played it disagree with that especially those who been around since the early days and has seen every patch.

You can debate this till everyone is blue in the face, however just waving your hands up saying "oh well they got free ships now" is not acceptable to every person who has lost a ship in lag when the " our logs don't show anything " excuse is thrown out daily . IN this case you have logs which is clearly shown by GM Grimmis post a bug that has allowed them to get ghost ships which in the past has been blown up by GMS and has not happen yet. The rules need to be clear and same for all.

Usually at DT any ghost ships and pods that have been left over from a battle are done away with and typically you cant lock them or even get in them. In this case it was the opposite.






Except of course when Sov swaps hands without a single reinforcement timer. CCP acknowledges this shouldn't have happened, it was a bug, but tough ****, everyone has to live with what has happened.

I honestly think they cyno'ed out successfully. In P-2 our capital pilots couldn't cyno out of system..click the beacon, jump, and it showed you jumping/consuming fuel. You'd then crash, and your ship would reappear sitting idle on grid.

Sounds like something similar happened..if Fuel was consumed, then they cyno'ed out while not being jammed/bubbled. Everything after that is the server ****ing up. Sounds like the desto system acknowledged and placed them on grid, but the departing system didn't get the confirmation that they had left and left their ships out to get killed. But CCP has said on multiple occassions "Good, bad, ugly, we won't fix server ****ups in relation to alliance warfare". This is so they can be "impartial". Otherwise, they'd have to fix every blackscreened fleet who died in a fire, and fix the sov ****ups when they happen (including removing people's stuff from stations that shouldn't have switched, etc)

If CCP is going to stay hands off, then they stay hands off. IF they aren't, THEN they should apply their favoritism equally.

Owait, Eve was made for BOB, forgot. Carry on.


Yea and damn the CCP devs for making all of the racial moons in delve querious and pure blind the main t2 bottleneck! I mean thats so unbalanced.. Ohwai...

Kushmir
Amarr
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.06.20 05:51:00 - [584]
 

Originally by: Mya ElleTerego
Originally by: Caladain Barton
Edited by: Caladain Barton on 20/06/2010 05:04:17
Originally by: LadyScarlet



Look we all understand that the game lately has been running poor you wont find a single person who has played it disagree with that especially those who been around since the early days and has seen every patch.

You can debate this till everyone is blue in the face, however just waving your hands up saying "oh well they got free ships now" is not acceptable to every person who has lost a ship in lag when the " our logs don't show anything " excuse is thrown out daily . IN this case you have logs which is clearly shown by GM Grimmis post a bug that has allowed them to get ghost ships which in the past has been blown up by GMS and has not happen yet. The rules need to be clear and same for all.

Usually at DT any ghost ships and pods that have been left over from a battle are done away with and typically you cant lock them or even get in them. In this case it was the opposite.






Except of course when Sov swaps hands without a single reinforcement timer. CCP acknowledges this shouldn't have happened, it was a bug, but tough ****, everyone has to live with what has happened.

I honestly think they cyno'ed out successfully. In P-2 our capital pilots couldn't cyno out of system..click the beacon, jump, and it showed you jumping/consuming fuel. You'd then crash, and your ship would reappear sitting idle on grid.

Sounds like something similar happened..if Fuel was consumed, then they cyno'ed out while not being jammed/bubbled. Everything after that is the server ****ing up. Sounds like the desto system acknowledged and placed them on grid, but the departing system didn't get the confirmation that they had left and left their ships out to get killed. But CCP has said on multiple occassions "Good, bad, ugly, we won't fix server ****ups in relation to alliance warfare". This is so they can be "impartial". Otherwise, they'd have to fix every blackscreened fleet who died in a fire, and fix the sov ****ups when they happen (including removing people's stuff from stations that shouldn't have switched, etc)

If CCP is going to stay hands off, then they stay hands off. IF they aren't, THEN they should apply their favoritism equally.

Owait, Eve was made for BOB, forgot. Carry on.


Yea and damn the CCP devs for making all of the racial moons in delve querious and pure blind the main t2 bottleneck! I mean thats so unbalanced.. Ohwai...


You know Goonswarm and PL owned those moons when they were nerfed right?

Lord TGR
Minmatar
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.06.20 07:41:00 - [585]
 

Originally by: Midge Mo'yb
and the modules missing from these "ghost ships" being exactly the same as the modules that were dropped in the wrecks isnt conclusive proof that they were killed?

They have been killed, yes. The modules being missing means the items themselves have been taken from the wrecks, as they have unique IDs. It doesn't mean that it should necessarily have happened.

Originally by: Meno Theaetetus
Is an interesting point, I'm not trying disprove that the ships 'were' killed, only that they should have been able to jump out, and essentially did. The module story does seem to suggest that some action was taken by ccp to resolve the fact that some of the modules associated with the ships had been destroyed shortly after downtime. Makes me think even more that this was the cause of the problems with systems crashing after the downtime.

It's more likely that the titan wrecks were looted for anything that didn't die, or the modules were destroyed when they destroyed the wreck, I don't know. But basically, when was the last time you saw GMs respond that quickly and concicely, and leave the ships in the destination system without telling anyone? :P

Originally by: Meno Theaetetus
Again I'm not saying that ships didn't die, I think that's obvious from the killmails. How do you explain the fact that the ghost ships were found in the systems that they had attempted to jump to?

My take on the whole thing is, the supercaps did indeed jump out. The source system must've had him as untackled for him to initiate jump in the first place, otherwise this whole thing would've been moot, and the fact that the supercaps did indeed show up in their destination systems should indicate that this has indeed happened. I believe that someone also said that they also did disappear from view (i.e. they went invisible) in the source system as they cynoed out as well, but I can't confirm or deny this (nor do I feel like slugging through the thread again), which I would say should indicate that they should be safe.

The fact they showed up in the source system I'd take as a nice example of desync between the different nodes. The times we've had the node roll back in 49- only to see the SBUs or TCU/IHUB/whatever go from destroyed just before the node crash, to a-ok and with not a single scratch on it does indicate that there is some caching going on locally, so there is possibly some leeway for getting some serious desync between what one node thinks, and what the rest of the system thinks, especially if there are shortcuts to f.ex how players are moved about when they cyno out.

All of this is speculation, however, since I have no access to their code, but it seems to make a certain amount of sense. As to what should happen to the ships, <sarcasm>please do continue to argue this, since this is obviously the biggest visible problem shown by this and all the other caploss debacles.</sarcasm>

Delete the ships for all I care, I'm pretty sure the NC would have no problem replacing them anyways, so the only difference would be that some very butthurt people can rub their hands in glee over how "the enemy has finally lost some ships", all the while they're not pushing CCP to fix the root cause of the problem.

OldPueblo
Gallente
Thunderwaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.06.20 08:50:00 - [586]
 

This is a result of the new over-correcting ctrl-q fix (bug) mixed with lag. Thank you and goodnight.

Robert Ger
Caldari
WEPRA CORP
White Noise.
Posted - 2010.06.20 10:00:00 - [587]
 

aloooot of crap... there is as i said a TS record, from the day, that just tell, nc got whole blackscreen, and the log off and in ... there some nc guys telling: WN used planetary interaction to lagg off the system... im just say this are tears and loooking for nice stor, because the nc lost horribly and trying to blend u with S**T

drama, and drama, as i said SHIPS ARE DEAD, WRECKS LOOT KM;
---
CCP take the stuff from them, this is not ok for other players that lost much more... in over 6 months

Thunder1971
Caldari
NailorTech Industries
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.06.20 11:29:00 - [588]
 

My response is quite simple.

Considering I don't have the several of thousand accounts to lag out all the high sec tradehubs...which would be another solution.

1 account has already ran out. Second one following in 2 days.
Third one going in the fridge in about a month.

No more money untill things get fixed.

Kra Torii
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2010.06.20 13:18:00 - [589]
 

Originally by: Robert Ger
aloooot of crap... there is as i said a TS record, from the day, that just tell, nc got whole blackscreen, and the log off and in ... there some nc guys telling: WN used planetary interaction to lagg off the system... im just say this are tears and loooking for nice stor, because the nc lost horribly and trying to blend u with S**T

drama, and drama, as i said SHIPS ARE DEAD, WRECKS LOOT KM;
---
CCP take the stuff from them, this is not ok for other players that lost much more... in over 6 months


ShockedShockedShockedShocked OMG KILLMAILS GENERATED FAPFAPFAPFAPFAP!111!!!!11ONE ShockedShockedShockedShocked

Seriously, go read the good post from the Goon fed guy.

Robert Ger
Caldari
WEPRA CORP
White Noise.
Posted - 2010.06.20 13:24:00 - [590]
 

Originally by: kra torii
Originally by: Robert Ger
aloooot of crap... there is as i said a TS record, from the day, that just tell, nc got whole blackscreen, and the log off and in ... there some nc guys telling: WN used planetary interaction to lagg off the system... im just say this are tears and loooking for nice stor, because the nc lost horribly and trying to blend u with S**T

drama, and drama, as i said SHIPS ARE DEAD, WRECKS LOOT KM;
---
CCP take the stuff from them, this is not ok for other players that lost much more... in over 6 months


ShockedShockedShockedShocked OMG KILLMAILS GENERATED FAPFAPFAPFAPFAP!111!!!!11ONE ShockedShockedShockedShocked

Seriously, go read the good post from the Goon fed guy.



u dont have any rights to quote me Pet.... seoriussly ships dead, mails here end. lag is here bugs here, and we must live with it, and goons ?

Kra Torii
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2010.06.20 13:26:00 - [591]
 

Edited by: kra torii on 20/06/2010 13:28:28
Originally by: Robert Ger
Originally by: kra torii
Originally by: Robert Ger
aloooot of crap... there is as i said a TS record, from the day, that just tell, nc got whole blackscreen, and the log off and in ... there some nc guys telling: WN used planetary interaction to lagg off the system... im just say this are tears and loooking for nice stor, because the nc lost horribly and trying to blend u with S**T

drama, and drama, as i said SHIPS ARE DEAD, WRECKS LOOT KM;
---
CCP take the stuff from them, this is not ok for other players that lost much more... in over 6 months


ShockedShockedShockedShocked OMG KILLMAILS GENERATED FAPFAPFAPFAPFAP!111!!!!11ONE ShockedShockedShockedShocked

Seriously, go read the good post from the Goon fed guy.



u dont have any rights to quote me Pet.... seoriussly ships dead, mails here end. lag is here bugs here, and we must live with it, and goons ?


When you've learnt to spell 'you' properly, come back and call me a pet.

The only problem is the lag, I don't care about the killmails.

Edit: This post:

Originally by: Lord TGR
I love how you bunch of ***gots always keep focusing on who lost something, instead of how that something was lost. When PL lost their titans and caps, everyone went "YOU KNEW WHAT YOU WENT INTO, YOU DESERVE IT *****". Same when Atlas lost their entire capfleet. And when CVA lost their capfleet. And when IT/AAA/Atlas lost their ships in h-w. And now when the NC lost 6 titans. The difference with the last situation is that apparently there's a scenario where there can be a desync between 2 nodes, where the old node probably had enough CPU power (or whatever, I don't care) to initiate transfer over to the other system/node, and the new node initiated ownership of said ship, but somewhere along the line the old system never got to the point where it actually removed its idea of owning the ships so they reappeared. I don't know the technical details behind this, and I honestly don't care, but people are focusing more on who it happened to, rather than what actually happened, and how this can be avoided.

Some morons keep saying "you ***s are all about the blob, it's your fault" or "you knew there were 200-400 on the other side, it's your fault for jumping in" or something equally moronic, while ignoring the fact that we've had 2000+ in system before and fighting wasn't all that horrible. These days we have reports of people not loading grid with as fewer than 100 in local if you're really unlucky. How few will we really have to reduce our fleets to before the "you knew what you got yourself into" meme can't apply anymore? 200v200? 100v100? 50v50? Or is this game now really so bad that if the opposing fleet gets more than, say, 100 into a system, the FCs might as well open up a petition on determining the outcome of a fight which is automated and essentially just flips a coin, so we don't have to suffer through blackscreening?

For ****s sake, take your collective heads out of your asses and ignore the fact that this **** is happening to "your enemies", and realize that it is happening to "us". It is a problem that's happening to everyone, and next time it'll probably be your turn. And this all began with Dominion. Some change CCP did back then is the cause, and CCP needs to figure this out and fix it. It should not be the players who need to judge whether or not to jump into a system merely because the enemy got sufficient numbers in there first. The only reason you should have for not jumping into a system should be that the fleet you have is either too small compared to the opposing fleet, or not the correct counter to the opposing side's fleet.

If you can't see beyond the hate and realize this, you're literally ******ed.


Robert Ger
Caldari
WEPRA CORP
White Noise.
Posted - 2010.06.20 13:32:00 - [592]
 

the lag we know sience 2009 after dominion patch.. why u cry now about it ? when u losse titans, then u used it every battle, lagg off system let die enemy!
and if u have any diferences with my writing, u find me in venal oki ?

Josiphine Noir
Amarr
Pelican.
Veneratio Venator Alliance
Posted - 2010.06.20 13:34:00 - [593]
 

Originally by: Robert Ger
aloooot of crap... there is as i said a TS record, from the day, that just tell, nc got whole blackscreen, and the log off and in ... there some nc guys telling: WN used planetary interaction to lagg off the system... im just say this are tears and loooking for nice stor, because the nc lost horribly and trying to blend u with S**T

drama, and drama, as i said SHIPS ARE DEAD, WRECKS LOOT KM;
---
CCP take the stuff from them, this is not ok for other players that lost much more... in over 6 months


Why are you so bitter? Are you that mad about being kicked out of Tenal? How do you think CCP found out about this problem? NC decided to tell them about it and make it public, if they were just spinning they would have just kept the ships and let you all chest beat, now you're butt hurt because you think that your big victory is now diminished, stop being so short sighted and look at the big picture here about why CCP needs to fix the game.

Kra Torii
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2010.06.20 13:38:00 - [594]
 

Originally by: Robert Ger
the lag we know sience 2009 after dominion patch.. why u cry now about it ? when u losse titans, then u used it every battle, lagg off system let die enemy!
and if u have any diferences with my writing, u find me in venal oki ?


I personally didn't lose anything in that fight, and lag has been around a lot longer than 2009. I don't see any tears in my thread, maybe you can help me point them out?

I don't see why I should come out from my Carebear haven over a gripe on your spelling.

(Ah, smack. I love this about CAOD)

Lord TGR
Minmatar
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.06.20 13:46:00 - [595]
 

Edited by: Lord TGR on 20/06/2010 13:48:57
Originally by: Robert Ger
seoriussly ships dead, mails here end. lag is here bugs here, and we must live with it, and goons ?

Are you seriously saying that we must live with this and not make demands on CCP to fix it? I mean, seriously, how stupid doesn't that sound?

Originally by: Robert Ger
the lag we know sience 2009 after dominion patch.. why u cry now about it ? when u losse titans, then u used it every battle, lagg off system let die enemy!

People have been *****ing about it ever since dominion hit, the main difference is that people are getting seriously sick of it. Again, if you can't see through your hate and realize this, well...

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.06.20 13:52:00 - [596]
 

Edited by: Avon on 20/06/2010 13:52:46
It is pretty clear the ships were killed and then accidentally duped somehow.

Killmails generated, destroyed modules not on the "ghost" ships, and the pilot being elsewhere all point to that.

The question is, should the duped ships be allowed to remain in the game, or should they be removed (no matter which side actually ended up with the ship)?

Personally I think the duped ships should be removed, not because of any particular bias, but rather because of the dangerous precedent it sets. Dead ships should stay dead. I don't want a spooky Eve filled with zombie ships - I have quite enough trouble understanding it without the introduction of a supernatural element ... although maybe there would be scope to give new undead slaying roles to the Paladin?

Robert Ger
Caldari
WEPRA CORP
White Noise.
Posted - 2010.06.20 14:00:00 - [597]
 

Originally by: Lord TGR
Edited by: Lord TGR on 20/06/2010 13:48:57
Originally by: Robert Ger
seoriussly ships dead, mails here end. lag is here bugs here, and we must live with it, and goons ?

Are you seriously saying that we must live with this and not make demands on CCP to fix it? I mean, seriously, how stupid doesn't that sound?

Originally by: Robert Ger
the lag we know sience 2009 after dominion patch.. why u cry now about it ? when u losse titans, then u used it every battle, lagg off system let die enemy!

People have been *****ing about it ever since dominion hit, the main difference is that people are getting seriously sick of it. Again, if you can't see through your hate and realize this, well...


u just missunderstand me... i told these bugs are sience domi patch... and i dont talk we should accpet it, but these bugs are not new... like the whole nc telling

Ishbu
Gallente
KIA Corporation
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.06.20 14:05:00 - [598]
 

Originally by: Avon
Edited by: Avon on 20/06/2010 13:52:46
It is pretty clear the ships were killed and then accidentally duped somehow.

Killmails generated, destroyed modules not on the "ghost" ships, and the pilot being elsewhere all point to that.

The question is, should the duped ships be allowed to remain in the game, or should they be removed (no matter which side actually ended up with the ship)?

Personally I think the duped ships should be removed, not because of any particular bias, but rather because of the dangerous precedent it sets. Dead ships should stay dead. I don't want a spooky Eve filled with zombie ships - I have quite enough trouble understanding it without the introduction of a supernatural element ... although maybe there would be scope to give new undead slaying roles to the Paladin?



The only thing that is "clear" is there were multiple server BUGS.

1st Being that after the ships jumped out then logged cause of black screens in another system, they were then respawned back in 6nj and then were killed.

2nd Being that at Downtime the server realized there was an issue of ships missing from a system the server had at one time acknowledge where supposed to be there.

Your logic is that ccp should enforce one bug but not the second. CCPs standing policy is with server errors to NOT intervene. IE the killmails stay, the people who got loot keep it and the ships stay.

You can not pick and choose which bugs to allow and which to rectify. Once again it boils down to as a whole we need to complain to CCP to fix their code. As far as precedence, it has happed before and the "duped" ships as you call them remained ingame.

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.06.20 14:15:00 - [599]
 

Originally by: Ishbu

You can not pick and choose which bugs to allow and which to rectify. Once again it boils down to as a whole we need to complain to CCP to fix their code. As far as precedence, it has happed before and the "duped" ships as you call them remained ingame.


You're right, I can't pick and choose.

CCP, however, would be well within their rights to enforce the EULA at their discression. You seem to think that you or I get to decide what is right. We don't. All the information we have comes from the clients, none of us know what happened from the server's point of view.

However, more importantly, my post was about the role of the undead in a sci-fi roleplaying setting. Personally I think CCP should keep that type of content for World of Darkness.

Snot Shot
Minmatar
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
The 0rphanage
Posted - 2010.06.20 16:41:00 - [600]
 


How can anyone even be sure that the ships were able to jump out and were not bubbled at the time? I was told that there were so many bubbles on the ships that there was no way there were ever going to jump out. The bug was having them appear to jump out which they could not have which is the reason why they are all dead..YARRRR!!


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