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Hauler Jill
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.06.16 12:48:00 - [1]
 

If you haven't already noticed, all of the PI manufactured goods have had their buy and sell orders removed

Louis deGuerre
Gallente
Malevolence.
Posted - 2010.06.16 12:57:00 - [2]
 

Better late than never I suppose. ugh

H3llHound
Nex Exercitus
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.06.16 13:05:00 - [3]
 

Finally :)

Borun Tal
Minmatar
Space Pods Inc
Posted - 2010.06.16 16:40:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Borun Tal on 16/06/2010 16:40:52
Great. Now we have more items insanely overpriced stuff on the market. Awesome.

cyndrogen
Posted - 2010.06.16 17:01:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Borun Tal
Edited by: Borun Tal on 16/06/2010 16:40:52
Great. Now we have more items insanely overpriced stuff on the market. Awesome.


Please don't buy overpriced items because you encourage others to rob you for cheap goods.
Just wait a bit the market will balance out as more people start to manufacture.

Stick Cult
Posted - 2010.06.16 20:10:00 - [6]
 

Of course they chose the day my pos started crying to take away NPC order.. Laughing

dankness420
Posted - 2010.06.16 20:23:00 - [7]
 

Anyone who didn't stock up on all the npc goods they could is a fool! I can singlehandedly crash the market for guidance systems myself!

Abrazzar
Posted - 2010.06.16 20:25:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: dankness420
Anyone who didn't stock up on all the npc goods they could is a fool! I can singlehandedly crash the market for guidance systems myself!

Have fun with a boatload of Broken Guidance Systems. Laughing

Itak Kaarta
B.O.O.M
Obsidian Mining Coalition
Posted - 2010.06.16 21:52:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
Originally by: dankness420
Anyone who didn't stock up on all the npc goods they could is a fool! I can singlehandedly crash the market for guidance systems myself!

Have fun with a boatload of Broken Guidance Systems. Laughing


Does this mean that everyone who stocked up via NPC sell orders are going to log in to crap that reprocesses into trit? I think that's hilarious but I also think CCP would hesitate to screw people like that.

Casmy Blue
Gallente
Power and Water
Posted - 2010.06.16 23:17:00 - [10]
 

Hell would freeze before they decide to break all of the NPC goods that people bought.

The problem will correct itself in short order - it doesn't matter how many people bought how much of the stuff.

When you've got movement of millions or at least hundreds of thousands of an item daily, it won't be long before stores are gone.

The people who will make out really well are the ones who are using the pre-bought NPC goods to fuel production for a long time.

the Whitenoise
Posted - 2010.06.16 23:33:00 - [11]
 

though apart from pos fuels the long term price outlook is bleak, apart from fuels and making Nanite Repair paste everything else is used on pos and sov stuff

that stuff dont sell that much and if too many jump on the band wagon you might find hanging onto stockpiles too long might leave you with stuff not worth the price you paid for it

Xessej
Posted - 2010.06.17 00:17:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: the Whitenoise
though apart from pos fuels the long term price outlook is bleak, apart from fuels and making Nanite Repair paste everything else is used on pos and sov stuff

that stuff dont sell that much and if too many jump on the band wagon you might find hanging onto stockpiles too long might leave you with stuff not worth the price you paid for it

Yeah no one is ever going to build any more t2 products that require PI products.Rolling Eyes

the Whitenoise
Posted - 2010.06.17 12:11:00 - [13]
 

oops so i forgot to add those to the fuel/nanite paste list

fact is most people are talking about oh wow p4, p4 is almost exclusively for tbe making of pos and sov structures these do not have a msssive high demand rate,

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2010.06.17 12:24:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: the Whitenoise
oops so i forgot to add those to the fuel/nanite paste list

fact is most people are talking about oh wow p4, p4 is almost exclusively for tbe making of pos and sov structures these do not have a msssive high demand rate,

I'm guessing much of the demand is from building ihubs, as the parts can be jumped-in, rather than having to do a risky freighter convoy.

I don't see this continuing forever, but there will always be some demand for sov stuff. Why bother to build it when hisec dwellers are willing to sell it.

Pestilent Industries
Posted - 2010.06.17 14:52:00 - [15]
 

All I know is that I run about 50 POSes in 0.0. I went to buy whatever was left on market in Jita for NPC POS fuels and everything was already gone. what was left was at least twice as much as it was before, and some were as high as 5 times as much as it was the day before.

I don't know how this is goign to play out, but my moon goo and other POS reaction products are going to have to sell for 4 times as much to make it worth my while to keep doing this.

I hope prices come back down on NPC/PI produced POS fuels soon otherwise tech 2 is going to skyrocket in price.

Khun SP
Paramite Factories
Posted - 2010.06.17 15:29:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Khun SP on 17/06/2010 15:32:32
Originally by: Pestilent Industries
All I know is that I run about 50 POSes in 0.0. I went to buy whatever was left on market in Jita for NPC POS fuels and everything was already gone. what was left was at least twice as much as it was before, and some were as high as 5 times as much as it was the day before.

I don't know how this is goign to play out, but my moon goo and other POS reaction products are going to have to sell for 4 times as much to make it worth my while to keep doing this.

I hope prices come back down on NPC/PI produced POS fuels soon otherwise tech 2 is going to skyrocket in price.


This is going to happen and I think its an intended feature. That's why CCP have adjusted so little production rates for PI stuff.

Players have too much isk on wallet for so little efforts. Time has come to a change. Also more player interaction is needed now as a single being can't produce the necessary fuel/items by himself Laughing

For example my corporation builds T2 ammunition and it requires some PI stuff. Expect ammunition prices to get more and more expensive as a result, so lvl4 missioners will notice the impact. Etc etc. I mean this is not affecting just POS owners, its to the whole economy.

Daniel Jackson
Caldari
Planet Watchers
Posted - 2010.06.17 16:33:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Daniel Jackson on 17/06/2010 16:36:10
not all places ONLY SOME reagion in eve they have been, in THE FORGE region NPC's are still selling pi goods, some of them that is

Seminole Sun
Posted - 2010.06.17 16:33:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Khun SP

For example my corporation builds T2 ammunition and it requires some PI stuff. Expect ammunition prices to get more and more expensive as a result, so lvl4 missioners will notice the impact. Etc etc. I mean this is not affecting just POS owners, its to the whole economy.


My guess (and it's just a guess) is that the "low-end" moon minerals come up greatly in price while the "high-end" bear the brunt of the hit. Here's my logic:

1) Incoming isk into the system hasn't really changed (missions and bounties). It may be slightly different (tweaks to L5s offset by more people running them because of the fall in mineral prices etc) but it's not going to be orders of magnitude different. There has been the removal of an isk sink (NPC sell orders) of which we can't possibly know the magnitude... especially since it's been "replaced" by the new isk sink of PI CC's and extractors, etc.

2) We know, right now, that the bulk of the cost of a T2 ship comes from moon minerals (and the costs associated with running those POS's). The low-end moon minerals and the high-end moon minerals cost the same to produce but the low-end's will just stop producing if it becomes an unprofitable venture. They have a hard floor.

3) A typical ship costs ~8.2% T1 minerals, 91.7% moon minerals, 0.1% NPC (now PI) inputs.

4) Based on that, there's significant room for the PI stuff to increase in cost (even if it quadruples the price increase will be a blip on the radar).

That will have two ripple affects. The cost of low-ends will go up (proportionally the same) as will the mark-up for the first two middle men of the t2 chain (remember, they're running POS's too). On the other hand, the fuel costs for someone moon mining Technetium are insignificant compared to the military costs. So, for them, they're price probably won't increase much at all and the total dollars in the system may actually force the Technetium price DOWN (as more money goes to the low-ends). Additionally, the mark-up to final t2 component is as much as 100% for some items. That has room to come down too.

To give some sense of this, let's take Fullerides (made from Carbon Polymers and PT Technite). And hence from Technetium, Platinum, Hydrocarbon and Silicates. If the price of Hydrocarbons and Silicates rises to 800 per unit (a HUGE percentage increase), that only leads to an increase in price of Fullerides by about 20isk per unit. Technetium would have to fall about 1200 per unit (3% decrease).

On the other hand, T2 modules may have a very different story. The NPC (now PI) goods contribute anywhere from 1-20% of the cost of an item. The Moon mineral cost is generally in the 70% or less range. These items may become SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive (potentially doubling some things even) in a very short time.

So I don't think it's doom and gloom time for the T2 production world.

EvilCheez
That's Retarded
FIGHT CLUB INC
Posted - 2010.06.17 17:17:00 - [19]
 

Gas moons are way to cheap to even think about mining - but people do. Many low end intermediates are money losers, but people still react them. You may be right, but its hard to predict when people act irrationally.

Takashi Halamoto
Mercurialis Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.06.17 18:55:00 - [20]
 

if your running pos in 0,0 just get a few planets, i know with 2 planets maybe 3, advanced centers (thats what a week's training time) you can run pretty much run 4 pos's of fuel, now, all your mining alts, and all your other miners in corp,

hello pos fuel, and if the prices stay high those nullsecers that have the inclination and the skills will mass produce it cheap out here and import it in and crash them markets

SamtheDog
Singularity.
Talon Alliance
Posted - 2010.06.18 06:13:00 - [21]
 

If you saw this coming, you should have prepared properly. We purchased 100k hours of fuel for a large pos last Feb and managed to transfer it to low sec within 70min using jump freighters. With full kit of towers, purcashing 20 large towers + full deathstar + EW kit is also a good choice.

The largest upcoming issue is the lack of fuel that will result within the next 4-8 weeks when towers go offline and people won't bother to pay the costs to keep them going. A corp should have at LEAST 2 years of fuel stockpiled for daily operations to avoid bottlenecks or events like this.

Moon mins are going to drop in availability, you'll see fuel prices spike and as towers get popped, they won't get so easily replaced. This is one of the greatest changes in eve we've seen so far.

I'm looking forward to the next year or so to see how the game changes.

Sammy
\o/


 

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