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Dr Nefarius
Posted - 2010.06.16 12:07:00 - [1]
 

So they pulled the plug, time to catch the rollercoaster Twisted Evil
I'm hoping for it going sky high. What are people betting on?
Early rise or crash of the NPC sold goods?

Dr Oktober
Analogue Limited Engineering
Posted - 2010.06.16 12:29:00 - [2]
 

Coolant. Coolant is used at a rate of 8 units /hour /large POS.

I don't know how many POS's there are in eve but its a lot of coolant.

I know ppl have stockpiled supplies but jita market sells 4 to 5 million units a day and there about 4 million units up for sale right now.

with moderate resupply and no panic buying jita could run dry in 24-48 hrs.

How much is it worth to the big alliances to keep the jump bridge networks up, or the CSAA's producing, or the hi-sec research labs printing?

other POS fuels are in the same boat as well.

guess we'll see...

Regis Nex
Posted - 2010.06.16 12:32:00 - [3]
 

So.... with NPC stuff pulled, we are all at the mercy of the PIe Bears atm?
Cant wait to get home and adjust prices ^^

TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.06.16 12:40:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: TheLordofAllandNothing on 16/06/2010 12:41:07
Originally by: Dr Oktober
Coolant. Coolant is used at a rate of 8 units /hour /large POS.

I don't know how many POS's there are in eve but its a lot of coolant.

I know ppl have stockpiled supplies but jita market sells 4 to 5 million units a day and there about 4 million units up for sale right now.

with moderate resupply and no panic buying jita could run dry in 24-48 hrs.

How much is it worth to the big alliances to keep the jump bridge networks up, or the CSAA's producing, or the hi-sec research labs printing?

other POS fuels are in the same boat as well.

guess we'll see...


Most alliances i assume are doing pos fuel alts, thats what we are doing, we have almost all fuel completely supplied by alliance at this point, ice products and planet products.

My alt keeps a large percentage of my corps poses fueled and we have a lot of people doing it so weh ave a pretty big excess of fuel atm, we no longer rely on empire anymore for fuel.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.06.16 12:44:00 - [5]
 

This sounds like the perfect time to start buying lowball price robotics Twisted Evil

Grozen
Caldari
Titan Core
Posted - 2010.06.16 12:52:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Grozen on 16/06/2010 12:55:43
wohooo Laughing
edit
someone is selling miniature el for 5k each lolol

Dr Oktober
Analogue Limited Engineering
Posted - 2010.06.16 12:56:00 - [7]
 

Sure. and i don't doubt some of the other big alliances have their contingency plans to.

But none the less the volume of Coolant, Enriched Uranium, Oxygen and Robotics have consistent volume of trade over the last 6 months so someone sure is buying it.

Mechanical parts is the only one to show significant stockpiles being brought over the last week.


Grozen
Caldari
Titan Core
Posted - 2010.06.16 13:00:00 - [8]
 

btw in lonetrek there are still lots of robot orders and they sure look like npc tooConfused

Dr Oktober
Analogue Limited Engineering
Posted - 2010.06.16 13:10:00 - [9]
 

nope. they are all player orders, not NPC.

up at the old NPC prices though so get 'em while they're hot.

Bushgallam
Posted - 2010.06.16 13:46:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Bushgallam on 16/06/2010 13:50:39
anyone seen an npc hauler around stations since downtime?

EDIT: forget it, they still exist, I just found a spawn... and they still contain npc goods...
first one I scanned had (amongst other non-PI related stuff like spirits, toxic waiste and antibiotics):
* 156 synthetic oil
* 250 polytextiles


Grozen
Caldari
Titan Core
Posted - 2010.06.16 13:54:00 - [11]
 

I don't think things will get that worse that ppl will have to gank npc haulers in high sec to get pi stuff.You'd have more luck ganking players.

Shar Tegral
Posted - 2010.06.16 14:11:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Grozen
I don't think things will get that worse that ppl will have to gank npc haulers in high sec to get pi stuff.You'd have more luck ganking players.
Who said that ganking them was about PI stuff. I still do it every once in a while just for giggles. Especially around "newbs".

"You can actually shoot NPC's?"
"Yup!"

"Hey, the sentry guns just blew me up!"
"Which station? ... That's right, I am salvaging your wreck."

Drivensane
Posted - 2010.06.16 14:21:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Shar Tegral


"You can actually shoot NPC's?"
"Yup!"

"Hey, the sentry guns just blew me up!"
"Which station? ... That's right, I am salvaging your wreck."


How heinous! Laughing

Shar Tegral
Posted - 2010.06.16 14:25:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Drivensane
How heinous! Laughing
Reminds me of an old story:

There's a bar on top of a really, really high building and it's very windy outside, so it is swaying back and forth. A guy walks into the bar and has some drinks and is there for a few hours. Another guy comes and sits next to him.

The first guy who has been there for a while looks at the man and says to him, "You know that there is a nice breeze outside and if you jump out it will blow you right back in."

The second guy doesn't agree and tells him to prove it. So, the first guy jumps out the window and comes soaring right back in. The second guy asks him to do it one more time. So, the first guy jumps out and the nice breeze takes him right back into the bar.

At this time the second guy is starting to believe him and decides he needs to try this. He then jumps out and falls down to his death.

The bartender turns to the first guy and says, "Superman, your an ******* when your drunk!!"

Grozen
Caldari
Titan Core
Posted - 2010.06.16 14:29:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Grozen on 16/06/2010 14:30:53
Edited by: Grozen on 16/06/2010 14:30:37
Edited by: Grozen on 16/06/2010 14:30:07
npc good are now sold by players for 150-200% margin.The amounts sold are not very big.I hate to say it but some p2 and p3 materials are so small in quantity that these are poised to go up a lot.I simply don't see how this is going to be enough for anything you can't produce labs&towers and fuel in high sec.Adv labs are completely gone 1lab for sale at 200mLaughing

Waiting to see if the big alliances will deliver some goo or not ...Twisted Evil

Kinroi Alari
Gallente
Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2010.06.16 14:34:00 - [16]
 


Looked at a small Amarr POS --
IIRC, it eats the following every hour (at 168 hr/wk):
1 Robotics*
2 Mechanical Parts
1 Enriched Uranium
2 Coolant
7 Oxygen**
(*P3, made from Consumer Electronics and Mechanical Parts; so latter are double-dipped)
(**Only P1 item above, rest are P2 or P3; make LOTS)


Vilgan Mazran
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2010.06.16 14:48:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Vilgan Mazran on 16/06/2010 14:48:36
Anyone who doesn't have 6 months of POS fuel stocked up deserves the instability that is to come as the market settles in. I did screw up and forget to get extra advanced labs for my next POS. fortunately there were 9 still for sale in tash-murkon for below the old npc price :P

Kinroi Alari
Gallente
Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2010.06.16 14:53:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Vilgan Mazran
Edited by: Vilgan Mazran on 16/06/2010 14:48:36
Anyone who doesn't have 6 months of POS fuel stocked up deserves the instability that is to come as the market settles in. I did screw up and forget to get extra advanced labs for my next POS. fortunately there were 9 still for sale in tash-murkon for below the old npc price :P


Yah -- on an alt-corp I bought two months of POS fuel, but then held off on actually launching the POS until things settle. Though I might just turn around and sell the modules...

Grozen
Caldari
Titan Core
Posted - 2010.06.16 14:54:00 - [19]
 

Lets see:
Oxygen-pretty easy to make even in high sec noble gas is almost everywhere in good amounts.
Enriched uranium- bit harder since it needs 2raw products but doable in high sec still.
Mechanical parts-Very hard but doable
Coolant-Pain in the ass need low sec planet at least
Robotics-will be fine for some months but after supplys are gone pain in the ass too.

Very Happy

Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
Posted - 2010.06.16 16:02:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Grozen
Lets see:
Oxygen-pretty easy to make even in high sec noble gas is almost everywhere in good amounts.


Check

Quote:
Enriched uranium- bit harder since it needs 2raw products but doable in high sec still.


Check


Quote:
Mechanical parts-Very hard but doable


Check, Check (2nd line needed for robotics)

Quote:
Coolant-Pain in the ass need low sec planet at least


You smoking some of that stuff again Very Happy I have 1 highsec planet making coolant and I have craploads of it being made every day.

Quote:
Robotics-will be fine for some months but after supplys are gone pain in the ass too.



QFT for the people in highsec anyway.

Dr Oktober
Analogue Limited Engineering
Posted - 2010.06.16 16:33:00 - [21]
 

Define 'craploads'? enough to feed the jita market 4 million units per day?

Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
Posted - 2010.06.16 16:51:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Dr Oktober
Define 'craploads'? enough to feed the jita market 4 million units per day?


Good question. Craploads means that 1 planet with 1 advanced CC is producing enough Coolant for almost 3 large towers in highsec.

Not to mention how much of those 4 million units per day was stockpiling years and years of NPC Fuels? I know I won't run out for well over a year and it's getting larger every day from making it.

Those that didn't stockpile, well,

Aingelluss
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.06.16 16:55:00 - [23]
 

Glad I have 12 months of fuel for two large towers right now :)
Prices can go down, but ill rather live with the evil I already know.

How soon do you think it will take for the market to get stable?

Dr Oktober
Analogue Limited Engineering
Posted - 2010.06.16 17:13:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Dr Oktober
Define 'craploads'? enough to feed the jita market 4 million units per day?


Good question. Craploads means that 1 planet with 1 advanced CC is producing enough Coolant for almost 3 large towers in highsec.

Not to mention how much of those 4 million units per day was stockpiling years and years of NPC Fuels? I know I won't run out for well over a year and it's getting larger every day from making it.

Those that didn't stockpile, well,


so you're able to feed 5 AIF's from 5 BIF's? and you feed those 5 BIF's from 10(?) extractors in high sec? on what time schedules?

on a related note, Mech. parts have gone from 610isk (npc sell order price) to 10,000 isk, and they are easier to make and have been stockpiled.

Bushgallam
Posted - 2010.06.16 17:27:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Vilgan Mazran
Edited by: Vilgan Mazran on 16/06/2010 14:48:36
Anyone who doesn't have 6 months of POS fuel stocked up deserves the instability that is to come as the market settles in. I did screw up and forget to get extra advanced labs for my next POS. fortunately there were 9 still for sale in tash-murkon for below the old npc price :P

If you only had done some research on PI materials and advanced lab BPO material requirements , you would have realized why those advanced labs were selling below npc price Cool

Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
Posted - 2010.06.16 17:47:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Dr Oktober
for almost 3 large towers


so you're able to feed 5 AIF's from 5 BIF's? and you feed those 5 BIF's from 10(?) extractors in high sec? on what time schedules?



After double checking everything, I was wrong on the number. It's 2 large non faction towers (3 AIF). I have 7 Ionic solution extractors, 5 Aqueous liquid extractors, 3 BIF, and 3 AIF. They are on 5 hour cycles, but I try to run a couple of 30 minute cycles if I know I will be online for awhile to stock up on extra materials. That yields 15 coolant per hour and 2 large non faction towers need 16. However for large faction towers that would produce enough for 3 towers per hour.

Keep in mind this setup is on a storm planet (5k vs 15k for a gas planet) and the Ionic and Aqueous is literally on the same spot on the planet so there is no long links. I also have advanced planetology 3.

This setup on a Gas planet will not work due to the Ionic and Aqueous being half a planet away from each other and the huge size of Gas planets in general.

I was either really lucky in finding this planet or I am in good with the PI gods ugh


SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
Posted - 2010.06.16 17:49:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: SencneS on 16/06/2010 17:53:58
Mechanical parts is the biggest usage/production time.
Because you need 15 to produce two POS fuels, however you produce 3 Robotics an with 10 Mechanical parts so it's not full 15 an hour. You 8.333 real units an hour to make POS fuel. So it puts it on par with Coolant.

Oxygen is nothing, you make 40 units an hour and only use 25 units so Oxygen will be cheap cheap cheap.
Coolant requires 2 Processes to feed 1 POS, with surplus created.
Enriched Uranium only need 1 Processor to feed 1 POS, with a surplus created.
Mechanical parts requires 2 processors to feed 1 POS and create enough to make robotics.
Robotics requires 1 Processor every three hours to feed 1 POS, however it creates a rather interesting scenario..

Assuming you use two mechanical processors to fill the requirement you need to channel 5 to a place that is NOT a Robotics processor.

So you make 10 an hour, 5 go silo for fuel, 5 goto the robotics process. Every 2 hours you get 3 units of Robotics and 10 units of mechanical parts. However you're only going to be using 2 of those robotics. This means that Robotics will actually be in surplus at half a unit an hour.

If we look at surplus of each based off the required production to fuel a Large POS this is what you get per hour.

Oyxgen - 15
Coolent - 2
Enriched Uranium - 1
Mechanical Parts - Zero
Robotics - 0.5

Given enough time It's very possible that Mechanical Parts could be the bottle neck as everything else is in surplus.

Edit:-
Also along with that

Consumer Electronics - Needed for Robotics to feed a Large POS you only need 1 Processor with zero surplus, so that's not a big deal there either.

Dr Oktober
Analogue Limited Engineering
Posted - 2010.06.16 18:16:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Dr Oktober on 16/06/2010 18:18:25
EDIT:- To breaker77 since I got sniped.

Right. So you are, after your 13 extractor/5hr + hauling time + taxes clik-fest on one of the rarer planet types, able to just fall short of producing 1/9th the fuel your 2 towers need? yet you said you are making 'craploads'.

now start thinking about that on a macro scale and not your personal (micro) scale. think of all the corp+alliance POS managers that had a big enough headache just taking a jump freighter to jita every few days to do a one-stop-shop of all the pos fuel they would need. Now they face the prospect of paying 10-20 times the cost or spending every waking moment of their playtime trying to get 30+ corp mates to get off their arses and make POS fuel and ship it over every day just to keep their jump bridges/moon miners/CSAA's running.

just a question of which comes first, POS managers having a nervous breakdown and quitting or the POS network running dry.

pmchem
Minmatar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.06.16 18:42:00 - [29]
 

Buy orders for unseeded items are way too low for almost everything, start your market making now.

There are also some good buys left from lazy peoples' sell orders for previously seeded items, if you know where to look. But we've scooped up the best ones~

Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
Posted - 2010.06.16 18:45:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Breaker77 on 16/06/2010 18:50:07
Originally by: Dr Oktober

Right. So you are, after your 13 extractor/5hr + hauling time + taxes clik-fest on one of the rarer planet types, able to just fall short of producing 1/9th the fuel your 2 towers need? yet you said you are making 'craploads'.



I can't find where I said I have 2 towers Sad I only have 1 though.

So technically I'm making all my former NPC POS fuel except for robotics. I haven't started my consumer electronic production chain yet, however I already have 3 mechanical part lines running. I'm waiting on another character to skill up for advanced CC to take over one or two of the several lava planets nearby for the consumer electronics.

Besides POS fuel I'm already just over 50% on my former NPC produced items for my T2 production which requires 1200 units a day. That is 10 AIF running nonstop 24/7 making superconductors once I get it all setup and running. Thats a lot of lava/storm/plasma planets needed to keep the suspended plasma coming in.

Quote:
now start thinking about that on a macro scale and not your personal (micro) scale. think of all the corp+alliance POS managers that had a big enough headache just taking a jump freighter to jita every few days to do a one-stop-shop of all the pos fuel they would need. Now they face the prospect of paying 10-20 times the cost or spending every waking moment of their playtime trying to get 30+ corp mates to get off their arses and make POS fuel and ship it over every day just to keep their jump bridges/moon miners/CSAA's running.


Again, if they failed to pay attention to what was going on and stockpiled fuel, well they probably wouldn't have lasted much longer as a corp/alliance leader/manager anyway. If they POS manager didn't say something about it, then corp/alliance leader should have, and if they didn't say anything...

Quote:
just a question of which comes first, POS managers having a nervous breakdown and quitting or the POS network running dry.



Well my alt would like to see the POS network running dry as he is has been waiting for that since PI was announced. More offline POSes is more pretty explosions YARRRR!!

But in all seriousness, 2 characters can supply 2 POSes even in highsec. Once you get towards 0.0/wh space then the extraction yields go up considerably more. Though that is mostly luck on the types of planets. With the exception of a small number of raw materials (none of them for POS fuel), you have several planet types to choose from.


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