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Madame Currie
Posted - 2010.06.11 17:34:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Madame Currie on 11/06/2010 19:14:10
Edited by: Madame Currie on 11/06/2010 18:25:25
Dear Pirates,

ccp stated loud and clear now, that it is your holy duty to gank any idiot stuppid enough to do missions in l5 in low, and due to the latest patch, be sure there will be enough idiots around to make you rich.

Some new pirates may fear seeing some old pilots doing l5, thinking that they could not beat them. Nothing could be farer from the truth:

1) Unless they come in extremly large fleets (which makes not that much sense ISK wise), they have no chance but to mission fit to some degree.
2) They will almost never have any scramblers fitted, so it is your decision to get in and out
3) They will never have fitted ecm or eccm, so you can neutralize them easy
4) They will never have buffer tanks.
5) You don't have to kill them alone. NPC will help you out with up to 1700dps raining on your targets

Now the practial thing:

1) Go to a l5 agent system with some people in local. The more the better, since mission runners won't have time to check them all
2) Learn your system, and sort out ships stored in towers around, so that your not confused. Set filters only to show bs
3) Take a good fitted scanning ship to scan out the mission sites. Don't be hasty. L5 need quite some time, so no reason to hurry
4) If possible try to keep your combat probes 15 au (corrected) away from their ships, so that they can not easily spot them on the directional scanner. Your likely scanning for bs so that is possible.
5) If you have to come closer, try to use either deep space probes or sister probes, since they are down on a long list of scan results.
6) Get the probes back, once you have a target, not to warn it.
7) Use a covert ops to check the mission pocket.
8) set directional scanner to short range when you arrive at the pocket. It will list the npc wrecks, giving you info about the mission, the player ships, and if the mission just started (mostly meaning large amounts of free dps delivered by the npc).
9) if you like what your are seeing, gank them.
10) Choose your ammunition, so that is the opposite of the likely mission tank. E.g. If sansha, use exp, when serpentis, use em ...
11) Take either a high dps ship with buffer tank (1000 dps brutix is a fine choice).
12) Speed tanking passive tengus will die, simply by webbing them
13) A bs + logistic couple can effectively killed by one ecm frig! Just scramble the bs , and jam the logistics.
13) take some ecm drones with you, to take care of a logistic. One missed cycle will mostly be enough.
14) Select the ship with aggro and scramble it. Wait a few seconds until he is toast.
15) Get the loot and get out, before they come back or leave you scrambled by the mission

Have fun and celebrate

Spurty
Caldari
V0LTA
VOLTA Corp
Posted - 2010.06.11 17:41:00 - [2]
 

points here are:

A) Don't go to low sec, its rubbish
B) Don't run missions in low sec (see previous point)
C) Don't do *ANYTHING* in this game solo, its an MMO (boo hoo you have to share bounties)
D) Point on the doll where the bad man touched you


Owen Drakkar
Bad...Karma
Posted - 2010.06.11 17:59:00 - [3]
 

Have you done this yourself or are you theory-crafting? Keep your probes above 14.XX AU away, THAT is the max d-scan range. Not 12 AU.

Make your formation out of range, move it in and get a quick scan, move them back out of range and hit scan so they move out and then resize/reformat.

Rinse and repeat until sig is locked down, this insures that your probes have the most minimal chance of being seen, better yet just move them very far off from the solar system and no one will see them for any great amount of time unless they know what they are about and not running lvl 5 missions.

Hammon Draz
Posted - 2010.06.12 00:46:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Hammon Draz on 12/06/2010 01:06:51
You forgot to bookmark the pocket, so you can run out and back in again quickly, something that the carebears can't do.

beautyispain
Posted - 2010.06.12 01:08:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: beautyispain on 12/06/2010 01:08:00
I endorse this product/guide

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.06.12 01:22:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Madame Currie
4) They will never have buffer tanks.

*cough* not necessarily.
Back when L5s first appeared (better said, before that), some of our corp got together on SiSi to take a look and try them.
By far, what worked better (for us anyway) than any other alternatives was a bunch of any shield-tanking missile boats (Raven, Drake, Nighthawk) with shield extenders, shield extender rigs, bunch of hardeners, DC-II, damage mods and rest power diags, shield maintenance drones (easily trained for) and optionally shield transporters in the spare highslots if there's more room.
Everybody tanked for the rest, everybody dealt damage.

Of course, that was quite a long while ago, and we haven't been running much of L5s lately (and by lately, I mean period prior to this patch, or even prior to the previous big patch, not just from this last patch until now).
No idea about you, but anything else seemed silly for L5s.
If they don't buffer-tank, well, their loss.

Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.06.12 03:51:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Madame Currie
Edited by: Madame Currie on 11/06/2010 19:14:10
Edited by: Madame Currie on 11/06/2010 18:25:25
Dear Pirates,

ccp stated loud and clear now, that it is your holy duty to gank any idiot stuppid enough to do missions in l5 in low, and due to the latest patch, be sure there will be enough idiots around to make you rich.

Some new pirates may fear seeing some old pilots doing l5, thinking that they could not beat them. Nothing could be farer from the truth:

1) Unless they come in extremly large fleets (which makes not that much sense ISK wise), they have no chance but to mission fit to some degree.
2) They will almost never have any scramblers fitted, so it is your decision to get in and out
3) They will never have fitted ecm or eccm, so you can neutralize them easy
4) They will never have buffer tanks.
5) You don't have to kill them alone. NPC will help you out with up to 1700dps raining on your targets

Now the practial thing:

1) Go to a l5 agent system with some people in local. The more the better, since mission runners won't have time to check them all
2) Learn your system, and sort out ships stored in towers around, so that your not confused. Set filters only to show bs
3) Take a good fitted scanning ship to scan out the mission sites. Don't be hasty. L5 need quite some time, so no reason to hurry
4) If possible try to keep your combat probes 15 au (corrected) away from their ships, so that they can not easily spot them on the directional scanner. Your likely scanning for bs so that is possible.
5) If you have to come closer, try to use either deep space probes or sister probes, since they are down on a long list of scan results.
6) Get the probes back, once you have a target, not to warn it.
7) Use a covert ops to check the mission pocket.
8) set directional scanner to short range when you arrive at the pocket. It will list the npc wrecks, giving you info about the mission, the player ships, and if the mission just started (mostly meaning large amounts of free dps delivered by the npc).
9) if you like what your are seeing, gank them.
10) Choose your ammunition, so that is the opposite of the likely mission tank. E.g. If sansha, use exp, when serpentis, use em ...
11) Take either a high dps ship with buffer tank (1000 dps brutix is a fine choice).
12) Speed tanking passive tengus will die, simply by webbing them
13) A bs + logistic couple can effectively killed by one ecm frig! Just scramble the bs , and jam the logistics.
13) take some ecm drones with you, to take care of a logistic. One missed cycle will mostly be enough.
14) Select the ship with aggro and scramble it. Wait a few seconds until he is toast.
15) Get the loot and get out, before they come back or leave you scrambled by the mission

Have fun and celebrate


As a pirate and long time killer of mission runners every where I can say without reservation: You're doing it wrong. The above advice focuses on all the wrong points of trying to kill mission runners. Clearly you've never done it yourself.

Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
Posted - 2010.06.12 04:27:00 - [8]
 

What is needed to balance things off a bit betewen people running missions and gankers is an agro ditching mod..with some moderately high cap and power grid re****ents... only a larger ship could fit one without a large gimp and while it was activated the rats would go chase other prey.

Acutally, the lack of interesting agro dynamics(other than run away if you get it) are one of the big yawners about pve here, but thats another topic I suppose.

Suitonia
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2010.06.12 04:39:00 - [9]
 

There will not be anyone running level 5 missions after the patch, except idiots, and people who don't know basic mathematics when it comes to calculating how much isk/hr they are earning.

Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.06.12 04:43:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Suitonia
There will not be anyone running level 5 missions after the patch, except idiots, and people who don't know basic mathematics when it comes to calculating how much isk/hr they are earning.


Wrong. I know plenty of people who run L5s regularly in lowsec, even before the patch. They do it solo, they do it safely and they don't lose ships. The difference between them and most mission runners: they're not mouth breathing carebears and they take responsibility for their own safety. I simply can't understand how the mission running community at large can't operate safely and efficiently like so many people I know.

I guess the mission running community would just rather whine about it than take responsibility for their own safety.

General Zamiel
Amarr
NON PROPERO
Posted - 2010.06.12 04:47:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Madame Currie
Edited by: Madame Currie on 11/06/2010 19:14:10
Edited by: Madame Currie on 11/06/2010 18:25:25
11) Take either a high dps ship with buffer tank (1000 dps brutix is a fine choice).


I don't know why you think a brutix would be a good choice for anything in a setting where you can't rely on a MWD (i.e. deadspace). That aside, I don't know how the hell you are getting a Brutix to do 1000 DPS. Ok, to be fair if you have a neutron fit with faction mag stabs, then maybe it can get close to a thousand, but don't expect to have any tank to speak of. I think what you meant to say was use a 1000 DPS Astarte, but oh wait, that's a stupid idea too because you can't use MWDs in deadspace. Moot point is moot.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.06.12 04:51:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 12/06/2010 04:55:40
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
As a pirate and long time killer of mission runners every where I can say without reservation: You're doing it wrong. The above advice focuses on all the wrong points of trying to kill mission runners. Clearly you've never done it yourself.

Well, duuh.
The OP reads almost exactly like a L5 mission-runner stealth-whining about the changes to L5 missions.
I "suspect" that's exactly what it is.

Suitonia
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2010.06.12 04:56:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Bellum Eternus

Wrong. I know plenty of people who run L5s regularly in lowsec, even before the patch. They do it solo, they do it safely and they don't lose ships. The difference between them and most mission runners: they're not mouth breathing carebears and they take responsibility for their own safety. I simply can't understand how the mission running community at large can't operate safely and efficiently like so many people I know.

I guess the mission running community would just rather whine about it than take responsibility for their own safety.


I think the majority of the mission running community are just casual players, and don't want to pay full attention to the game for the duration of the mission for 40 minutes. Its damn easy to not get ganked, by using the directional scanner on close range checking for probes, and staying aligned to station/safespot/non-obvious celestials. I personally find mission running damn boring, and the little time I can tolerate it, I read the forums / clean my house / cook dinner etc. while doing it.

It's also about being able to play when you want, sometimes there are plenty of pirates with probes on the ready, and you don't have a chance to finish your mission before having to leave it, not being able to play, and run missions when you want is a big part of it too.

Suitonia
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2010.06.12 05:02:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: General Zamiel
Originally by: Madame Currie
Edited by: Madame Currie on 11/06/2010 19:14:10
Edited by: Madame Currie on 11/06/2010 18:25:25
11) Take either a high dps ship with buffer tank (1000 dps brutix is a fine choice).


I don't know why you think a brutix would be a good choice for anything in a setting where you can't rely on a MWD (i.e. deadspace). That aside, I don't know how the hell you are getting a Brutix to do 1000 DPS. Ok, to be fair if you have a neutron fit with faction mag stabs, then maybe it can get close to a thousand, but don't expect to have any tank to speak of. I think what you meant to say was use a 1000 DPS Astarte, but oh wait, that's a stupid idea too because you can't use MWDs in deadspace. Moot point is moot.



[Brutix, New Setup 3]
Reactor Control Unit II
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

10MN MicroWarpdrive I
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Stasis Webifier II
Large Shield Extender II

Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M



Hammerhead II x5

When overloading with a Zainou 'Deadeye' ZGM1000 (3-4mil - 5% to medium hybrid damage) this setup does 1005 dps. And is fairly sensible and cheap.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.06.12 05:04:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Suitonia
Originally by: General Zamiel
[...]in a setting where you can't rely on a MWD (i.e. deadspace)[...]

[Brutix, New Setup 3]
[...]
10MN MicroWarpdrive I
[...]
fairly sensible and cheap.

MWD. Deadspace.

Suitonia
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2010.06.12 05:07:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Akita T[/quote

[Brutix, New Setup 3]
[...]
10MN MicroWarpdrive I
[...]
fairly sensible and cheap.

MWD. Deadspace.



Swap it to an Afterburner then? I was just proving that the Brutix can easily reach 1000 DPS in a reasonable fitting. I think a Brutix would be crap for ganking mission runners anyway.

It's a shame that most people on these boards ditch common sense for a cheap snipe.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.06.12 05:19:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Suitonia
I think a Brutix would be crap for ganking mission runners anyway.

That was the whole point, no ?
Quote:
It's a shame that most people on these boards ditch common sense for a cheap snipe.

Didn't you just do that too ?
Oh, or you're actually agreeing that's the norm, but you're decrying it as being a shame Smile

Suitonia
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2010.06.12 05:31:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Akita T

Oh, or you're actually agreeing that's the norm, but you're decrying it as being a shame Smile



No, I was correcting him because he thought that it was impossible to achieve without faction magstabs. And that it wouldn't have any buffer, when a LSE + damage control (+ shield rigs) gives a pretty decent one.


Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.06.12 05:36:00 - [19]
 

I seriously doubt he was considering overheating of the full rack of weapons as a feasible alternative to reach that DPS number.
Still, that doesn't change the fact the OP is a mission-runner stealth-whining about L5s "getting nerfed", and giving laughable reasons for it from a soapbox wannabe pirate perspective.

Khalia Nestune
Mad Stacks
Posted - 2010.06.12 05:46:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Suitonia

When overloading with a Zainou 'Deadeye' ZGM1000 (3-4mil - 5% to medium hybrid damage) this setup does 1005 dps. And is fairly sensible and cheap.


Um, what? With all skills at V, this fit gives 811 DPS overloaded. (yes, with the implant).

Want to run those numbers again champ?

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.06.12 05:53:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Khalia Nestune
Um, what? With all skills at V, this fit gives 811 DPS overloaded. (yes, with the implant).

807 without implants, overloaded, and without drones
847 with ZGM1000, overloaded, and without drones
1005 with ZGM1000, overloaded, and with 5x Hammerhead II
1050 with ZGM1000 and G2-Delta, overloaded, and with 5x Hammerhead II

Vadimik
Gallente
Posted - 2010.06.12 09:22:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Madame Currie

3) They will never have fitted ecm or eccm, so you can neutralize them easy

Originally by: Madame Currie

3) They will never have fitted ... eccm ...

Ha ha ha.
Oh, wow!
You clearly have no idea how probing for ships works, haven't you?

Doctor Ungabungas
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.06.12 09:28:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Vadimik
Originally by: Madame Currie

3) They will never have fitted ecm or eccm, so you can neutralize them easy

Originally by: Madame Currie

3) They will never have fitted ... eccm ...

Ha ha ha.
Oh, wow!
You clearly have no idea how probing for ships works, haven't you?


Quoting this for later.

Madame Currie
Posted - 2010.06.12 10:48:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Vadimik

You clearly have no idea how probing for ships works, haven't you?


Well, I for one, know perfectly how you can use eccm to make your ships hard to impossible to scan, while you obviously have no idea, how to survive l5 in a small gang.

ps. did I mention how sweet the cries of a solo carrier pilot are, when you give him a surprise party in a l5

Vadimik
Gallente
Posted - 2010.06.12 11:05:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Vadimik on 12/06/2010 11:04:47
Originally by: Madame Currie

Well, I for one, know perfectly how you can use eccm to make your ships hard to impossible to scan, while you obviously have no idea, how to survive l5 in a small gang.

ps. did I mention how sweet the cries of a solo carrier pilot are, when you give him a surprise party in a l5


Well, you should have mentioned ealier that you are only talking about ganging players that don't know how (or for some reason don't want) to set up a proper small gang for L5 (the one that is, among other things, "hard to impossible to scan for").

Casmy Blue
Gallente
Power and Water
Posted - 2010.06.12 11:11:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Casmy Blue on 12/06/2010 11:12:06
Originally by: Madame Currie
Originally by: Vadimik

You clearly have no idea how probing for ships works, haven't you?


Well, I for one, know perfectly how you can use eccm to make your ships hard to impossible to scan, while you obviously have no idea, how to survive l5 in a small gang.

ps. did I mention how sweet the cries of a solo carrier pilot are, when you give him a surprise party in a l5


Please. This is pathetic. You come to these forums acting as if you've ever successfully destroyed another player's ship, whining about stealth nerfs to L5s, and then make **** up to make us think you've ever actually done any of what you're claiming.

Get off the forums and let us get back to some threads from people who don't fabricate their experiences, or if you're going to lie about what you've done, at least make it believable. Let's face it, you're not kidding anybody, and you've probably never left Empire space in your life.

Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
Posted - 2010.06.12 12:27:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Madame Currie
Originally by: Vadimik

You clearly have no idea how probing for ships works, haven't you?


Well, I for one, know perfectly how you can use eccm to make your ships hard to impossible to scan, while you obviously have no idea, how to survive l5 in a small gang.

ps. did I mention how sweet the cries of a solo carrier pilot are, when you give him a surprise party in a l5
Nope, because people who have killed solo carriers don't need to brag about it. Right? Right?

Khalia Nestune
Mad Stacks
Posted - 2010.06.12 20:09:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Khalia Nestune
Um, what? With all skills at V, this fit gives 811 DPS overloaded. (yes, with the implant).

807 without implants, overloaded, and without drones
847 with ZGM1000, overloaded, and without drones
1005 with ZGM1000, overloaded, and with 5x Hammerhead II
1050 with ZGM1000 and G2-Delta, overloaded, and with 5x Hammerhead II



Ah, drones.

Richard Christy
Posted - 2010.06.15 12:10:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Diomedes Calypso
What is needed to balance things off a bit betewen people running missions and gankers is an agro ditching mod..with some moderately high cap and power grid re****ents... only a larger ship could fit one without a large gimp and while it was activated the rats would go chase other prey.

Acutally, the lack of interesting agro dynamics(other than run away if you get it) are one of the big yawners about pve here, but thats another topic I suppose.


lol at "quim" being censored.


 

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