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Amras Arnatuile
Gallente
Element 115.
Posted - 2010.06.11 23:22:00 - [211]
 

I never ran them so I really don't care. But I feel CCP could have spent more time and resources on the lag issue than about maybe a few 100 players running lvl 5's in hi sec. Just my 2 cents.

Malakai D'troll
Posted - 2010.06.11 23:24:00 - [212]
 

Originally by: Ehranavaar
definitely not one of the fixes i appreciate. as a mission runner i used to enjoy the odd level 5 despite the fact it was no more remunerative than 4's were given i did them with a single ship. perhaps the next quarterly report can illustrate just how much level 5's drop off once they are low sec only. i know i certainly won't be doing any more as i'm suicide averse. thank you ccp for limiting what the bulk of your carebear players can do in favour of the pvp.


fixed that for you, and yes its a PVP game, and you CAN do whatever you want still. you just have to realize this game is not made for solo carebears to have an isk advantage over anyone else, rather its always been focused on combat and REAL LOSS' as a result of action or inaction on the player's part.

thats all there is too it, i hear hello kitty happy funpark is currently taking new players

Kimbeau Surveryor
Gallente
Posted - 2010.06.11 23:28:00 - [213]
 

Edited by: Kimbeau Surveryor on 11/06/2010 23:28:06
Originally by: Isaiah Harms

<snip>
Nobody's going to gain the confidence to fight in low/null sec without practice.
<snip>


You miss the point Isaiah, Lots of people don't fight in low/null sec because they simply don't want to fight. Period!

The big question is whether CCP values the income from such people: will CCP nurture sufficient PvE elements of Eve to keep life fun for the carebears?

Viktoria Potsfel
Posted - 2010.06.11 23:30:00 - [214]
 

problem w low-sec is that the only thing worth going there for is to pirate.

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2010.06.11 23:35:00 - [215]
 

Originally by: Kimbeau Surveryor
I am a serious carebear. To me, the challenge in Eve is to make ISK as fast as possible, PvP simply does not attract me.


Cool.

So you stay in highsec and have the content which is available there.

Sure, I would like to farm, say, 10/10s in highsec. That would be cool. Except it breaks the core concept of risk v reward.

There's actually people who live in lowsec, as a result know how not do die horribly as the average clueless highsec carebear, and do L5s. They take a risk you don't; why on earth should you be entitled to equal rewards?

The fact someone doesn't want any risk in their gameplay (and risk really IS quite low if you know what you're doing) does not mean they get to recieve all the content riskfree for some reason.


Nobody hates anybody because you're a carebear or whatever; people do hate the idea you are entitled to have everything available to you riskfree because you don't like risk.

iudex
Posted - 2010.06.11 23:36:00 - [216]
 

Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
However, while that particular distribution bug was fixed, agents may still occasionally send you to a 0.5 system for a level 5 mission. This quirk is being looked into; once it has been resolved, level 5 missions always occur in low- or null-sec systems.



This is a very stupid move. I didn't do any level 5 missions for more than a year and don't plan to do any, so this isn't a whine because you nerf my game-play. But this "fix" proves that you have no clue about the game which you make. Instead of giving the players what they want(yes, it's PVE in highsec as proven once again by the last QEN), you try to lure them into stupid actions. Only a ****** will use an expensive ship to do this missions in lowsec, where he can be probed within less than a minute.

And it makes no sense to do those missions in groups, the shared reward combined with PVP risk will make them less profitable than highsec level 4 missions. I did most of those missions solo in a Nighthawk long ago (Tengus didn't exist back then), it required expensive modules and a well-elaborated tactics, I lost more than one Nighthawk when working out efficient strategies. It was challenging and it was fun. Now you destroy this fun and challenge for others - for no reason. Congratulations for dumbing down the game and reducing possibilities for highsec players with this "fix", that no one needs and that no one was asking for.

Moja Aniolem
Posted - 2010.06.11 23:36:00 - [217]
 

Ohhh plzzz. FFS stop advertising your game as Sandbox at this point CCP. It's a little more like a funnel you're forcing us down with your own idea of what the game should be. You invented the game so by all means do that, just stop with the ridiculous video ad's promoting it as something it's not.

PI is just another example of FUNNEL FAIL on your part.

If you want to add more PVP to this game, the answer is quite simple. Fix the f-brkn clone system which is the psychological reason a lot of people don't bother with PVP. Nobody wants their precious training time screwed around by a) losing expensive learning implants b) waiting 24! hours to switch your clone.

While you're at it, why not create some sort of arena where people can do PVP when they FEEL like it, not as a result of some 5-hour snorefest that results in some ridiculous blobfest in which the last 14 days of your game time is gone in 30 seconds.

I know some of your pets and some of the other morons in this thread supporting you would like to point to the 'realistic' style of the game we are supposedly playing. I imagine none of those people have ever taken a physics class, or used a Hurricane to shunt a Hulk out of a mining field.

In short stop drinking and whoring so much up there in Iceland and hire a few more devs... you sure have enough of our money at this point. Get over yourselves. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You are not the 'rock gods' of MMO's.

PS - Thanks for fixing the ****ty Scorpion model. Can we now assume that at your current rate we'll have all new ship models to replace existing in about 2014?

PPS - Crew? or less windows?
PPPS - Storyline that doesn't appear to be written by a drunk icelandic barbarian who has english as a second language.?

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2010.06.11 23:40:00 - [218]
 

Edited by: Cpt Branko on 11/06/2010 23:40:24
Originally by: Moja Aniolem
Ohhh plzzz. FFS stop advertising your game as Sandbox at this point CCP. It's a little more like a funnel you're forcing us down with your own idea of what the game should be. You invented the game so by all means do that, just stop with the ridiculous video ad's promoting it as something it's not.



So somehow it's not a sandbox because not all content is available everywhere, but has risk/reward where more profitable content is located in more dangerous areas?

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2010.06.11 23:43:00 - [219]
 

Edited by: Kerfira on 11/06/2010 23:45:12
Originally by: Kimbeau Surveryor
Lots of people don't fight in low/null sec because they simply don't want to fight. Period!

That is fully acceptable, but then you will not (and should not) have the rewards and content reserved for those who ARE willing to risk losing their precious internet spaceships!

CCP is not making this change to 'reward' pirates and give them more targets. They're doing it because they want each of the three different areas of EVE to each have their own, unique content and features.
  • High-sec has CONCORD protection and lower-level PvE content.
  • Low-sec has Faction Warfare and higher-level PvE content.
  • Null-sec has Pirate PvE content and Alliance warfare.
This is a pretty good distribution (though low-sec probably needs a bit more)! It means a diverse and rich game.

In a game that is based heavily on risk/reward, it makes a pretty stupid argument that you want the rewards without the risk... Rolling Eyes

Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2010.06.11 23:45:00 - [220]
 

lol wow. Nice priorities ccp =D

Chasten Ruin
Posted - 2010.06.11 23:50:00 - [221]
 

Originally by: Shade Millith
Edited by: Shade Millith on 11/06/2010 23:15:44
Well at least CCP's fixing old bugs to do with mission running.

PVPer's got a shafting this patch. PVEer's can have one too.

Originally by: Chasten Ruin
Level 5s were NOT supposed to be low sec. Why did they seed Level 5 agents all over high sec and then shut them off? That excuse is a bunch of horse crap. Check the agent finder and youll find tons and tons of level 5 agents in high sec that have been disabled.


As for YOU, yes, they were. The original intention for L5's was for them to be lowsec only, as stated by CCP when they were first introduced. IIRC they made a mistake putting some L5 agents in highsec, and had a bug that sent some missions into highsec, problem is the usual CCP time to fix something basic, like rockets


I respectfully disagree, if you look up the Level 5 agents, there are many that were seeded nowhere near low sec that have been disabled. The other point getting lost here is that Level 5 missions are not the cash cows people think they are, the only thing different is you get bucketloads of LP but the active L5 agents are all for combat corps where there is very little profit reselling LP store items because the market is already flooded. Bounties for L5s are on par with L4s. You dont get more loot, you dont even get better loot because with the loot nerf a few patches back it seems the only way to get faction mods these days is to buy them from the LP store or to do plexes in low/null.

skychyld
Posted - 2010.06.11 23:52:00 - [222]
 

risking a ship that cost 1/50th the isk of what the lvl 5 missioner is putting on the line isn't risk. It didn't take you weeks to earn the isk to fit your pvp ships so you could gank a pve fitted ship and call it a victory. Not only that but you get paid to do it because you get the insurance money.... talk about getting reward for nothing. We'll see who's whining in 3 weeks when you pirates don't have any targets anymore

Integra Arkanheld
Posted - 2010.06.11 23:54:00 - [223]
 

Having the game fixed and running as espected is always good. But I think that the main problem is that mission runners that have been playing for a long time, need more challenges than L4 missions. The L4 epic arcs are a beginning, but still you can only use them once every 6 months... There are not a lot of options. If you upgrade your ship, buying special modules and learning skills, but you do not find more challenges, the game becomes dull. And you will never put that ships in low sec. As someone said, perhaps it would be good to have L5 in empire, and new L6 in low sec, because the game is evolving, but not the level of missions difficulty.

Enosxike
Posted - 2010.06.12 00:11:00 - [224]
 

Hey CCP

yeah i wanted to talk you about the fact that from a 1.2bill battleship rat the loot i got was 'only' scrap metals, whats that about?

Seriously, dont **** with the mechanics you've got more when your already making BIG problems for players ISK/time ratio's yay for needing to run twice as many lvl4's to fund a battlecruiser.Evil or Very Mad NOT!Evil or Very Mad

Kirika Misono
The Eiken Club
Posted - 2010.06.12 00:12:00 - [225]
 

This patch is Far too little, too late! I mean, why haven't you fixed all the other agents? Seriously, level one agent hand out missions in .7 systems ALL the time! People are exploiting that like crazy! I mean, they dock and undock in near-perfect safety! I demand that CCP fix the bug that prevents us from building and launching mines in the station launch lanes! This bug has plagued the game for years, and I think that it's continued absence is just coddling these worthless carebears!

How DARE they not fly one by one right into my optimum range, like in the old days! I can't even gank 45 haulers an hour in Amamake like I used to! This is horribly unfair to us killers and we DEMAND action!

Steeltongue
Posted - 2010.06.12 00:12:00 - [226]
 

Currently sporting a huge boner because I've been fantasizing about a CCP rep posting the following:

Originally by: CCP

HTFU


Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2010.06.12 00:13:00 - [227]
 

Originally by: skychyld
risking a ship that cost 1/50th the isk of what the lvl 5 missioner is putting on the line isn't risk. It didn't take you weeks to earn the isk to fit your pvp ships so you could gank a pve fitted ship and call it a victory. Not only that but you get paid to do it because you get the insurance money.... talk about getting reward for nothing. We'll see who's whining in 3 weeks when you pirates don't have any targets anymore


Lulz illustrating the cluelessness.

Nobody will whine in 3 weeks about L5s not being ran in highsec (except obviously people who ran them in highsec), they weren't a target for anyone anyway.

People who are doing them in lowsec (which are typically PVPers, but you know, PVP ships cost ISK too in case you didn't know) will be happier because they won't be sent to highsec anymore (incidentally, some lowsec denizens cannot go to highsec).

Nobody will be having less targets then before, of course. People doing them in highsec weren't a target for anyone anywhere, and people who want 0 risk won't ever go anywhere where they might be a target.

Basically, the completely risk-averse people will lose access to content which wasn't supposed to be there and which is too rewarding for the safety of the environment it's in.

Melanie Luc
Posted - 2010.06.12 00:14:00 - [228]
 

The change comports w/ previously stated intentions but it and they are flawed. No one enjoys fitting for PvE to perform a mission in PvP space. You must get twice the people to come along, some fitted for PvP, in case any PvPers show up. The risk v. reward is not worth it for those on the mission side, and the enjoyment factor is lower too.

I don't PvP. I don't get a rush from it, so I am not in a corp whose members can support low/null sec ops. I stopped taking low sec missions a long time ago after losing good ships to mostly NPC damage.

In one mission, in a Vargur, I tanked 128K damage before popping. I managed to kill their CNR scrambler just before my ship blew and I didn't get podded, but one NPC BS did 57K of their damage for them. It's the closest to enjoyment I've gotten in a PvP situation, but it wasn't worth my ship.

CCP does seem to make efforts to push people who prefer Empire into trying more in the "wastes". Most of us don't like it there; try it and don't like it. I agree with the assessments that they are attempts to give Pirates more victims.

skychyld
Posted - 2010.06.12 00:22:00 - [229]
 

Then why are you whining about carebears risk/reward cpt branko? It's a moot point now because CCP has further separated carebears and pirates..... havn't they?

Charley Rachide
Posted - 2010.06.12 00:25:00 - [230]
 

"We fixed the glitch" - The Bobs

stop crying about having to take risks

Fairy Commando
Posted - 2010.06.12 00:29:00 - [231]
 

Originally by: Viktoria Potsfel

This is not gonna bring more ppl to low, its gonna make less ppl do lvl5s
stop nerfing high-sec and start buffing low-sec.

Wanna buff pvp and pve at the same time?..
make taxing every kill(like 1-2%) in a system you own a possibility,
to make nrds viable again.
The recent changes w upkeep and upgrades(nice)
has made it a practical impossibility.


This.

Jazz Tangle
Posted - 2010.06.12 00:29:00 - [232]
 

Edited by: Jazz Tangle on 12/06/2010 00:50:18
I am very glad the issue level 1-4 mission distribution has is being looked into. One of my agents is sending me to lowsec only after the patch has been deployed and sometimes even 20 jumps away. I never declined missions as much as I do now.

About the lvl5's, most members in my corp were not aware this was a bug. We often did lvl5's together in highsec. Some of us were getting ready to fly expensive skillheavy ships rigged with expensive rigs and fitted wit expensive modules to get through them faster. Well, now we know we don't have to anymore as it's plain silly to take those to lowsec or even nullsec. In my opinion missioning is not a lowsec/nullsec thing at all.

We often venture into lowsec and nullsec to get our PVP kicks, do some exploration, get officer loot, go into wh's etc. but sure as hell we don't go into low/nullsec for missioning, let alone missioning in lowsec in pimped PVE vessels. The only thing this lvl5 fix does is disabling us from doing lvl5's at all and with that nullifying the need of getting ourselves a shiny lvl5 mission runner.

Revchan
Posted - 2010.06.12 00:32:00 - [233]
 

So much love/hate with this topic! Personally I haven't really bothered with lvl 5's that much. Although I can see where it would really suck to be forced to pvp while doing missions which are pve. Two different ships setups are used so it's a ******ed idea to force that. However I did see a good idea on this thread. Why not make lvl 5's in high and low/null-sec? Of course the people who do the ones in high sec would get lower rewards, but they would still be able to do these. People generally don't like being 'forced' to do something so of course many people are going to hate ccp now(or more, whichever the case may be) since this 'fix'. People like to have a choice.

JinMeiJim
Posted - 2010.06.12 00:40:00 - [234]
 

Originally by: Moja Aniolem
Ohhh plzzz. FFS stop advertising your game as Sandbox at this point CCP. It's a little more like a funnel you're forcing us down with your own idea of what the game should be. You invented the game so by all means do that, just stop with the ridiculous video ad's promoting it as something it's not.

PI is just another example of FUNNEL FAIL on your part.

If you want to add more PVP to this game, the answer is quite simple. Fix the f-brkn clone system which is the psychological reason a lot of people don't bother with PVP. Nobody wants their precious training time screwed around by a) losing expensive learning implants b) waiting 24! hours to switch your clone.

While you're at it, why not create some sort of arena where people can do PVP when they FEEL like it, not as a result of some 5-hour snorefest that results in some ridiculous blobfest in which the last 14 days of your game time is gone in 30 seconds.

I know some of your pets and some of the other morons in this thread supporting you would like to point to the 'realistic' style of the game we are supposedly playing. I imagine none of those people have ever taken a physics class, or used a Hurricane to shunt a Hulk out of a mining field.

In short stop drinking and whoring so much up there in Iceland and hire a few more devs... you sure have enough of our money at this point. Get over yourselves. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You are not the 'rock gods' of MMO's.

PS - Thanks for fixing the ****ty Scorpion model. Can we now assume that at your current rate we'll have all new ship models to replace existing in about 2014?

PPS - Crew? or less windows?
PPPS - Storyline that doesn't appear to be written by a drunk icelandic barbarian who has english as a second language.?


That was a quality post!

Fairy Commando
Posted - 2010.06.12 00:40:00 - [235]
 

Edited by: Fairy Commando on 12/06/2010 00:45:57
how about hard missions with ship limitation, forcing ppl to make a frigate/cruiser gang?
Then i would be missioning in low sec :D would like to have them in high-sec too ofcoz.. with loot/salvage being not as good. oh yeah.. and alot more wormhole-space, basically we need alot more space, so we dont have 10/1 ratio of gankers/victims most places.. that way no more "victims" will come! challenge/risk fun... suicide by griefer not so much.

Mathias Black
Posted - 2010.06.12 00:49:00 - [236]
 

The pirates going on about "risk and reward" should just take the "risk" of going to high sec to shoot the mission runners there. What? Your PvP fitted ship can't handle tanking Concord and you're afraid of a few gate guns? HTFU CAREBEAR.

Silentil
Warhammer Celestial Imperium
No Limit Alliance
Posted - 2010.06.12 00:51:00 - [237]
 

Doesn't matter either way, all the lil gate camping ebil piwates make these a non-event anyway.

Quagnar
Posted - 2010.06.12 00:53:00 - [238]
 

It would then appear that CCP wants mission runners to be ganked at gates and killed in low sec.This is not a government and CCP is acting contrary to most people playing eve, which I remind CCP that this will affect thier real life profits as more and more people leave the game. In the end, Eve is a real life money making venture in the gaming world. Why would a company insist on acting against the majority of those who "Pay to Play". In Eve, there are skills to train to become mission runners, miners and many other careers as players decide which to fallow. But the skills which you train will affect how you play and it what respect. For mission runners, this is a real set back, the game should not be dictated by those players seeking the PVP aspect. If mission runners are allowed to achieve high standings with agents and lvl 5's become available, then they should have the opportunity to participate unmolested by those players who enjoy making the game unpleasant for those who do not want to participate in the PVP aspect. PVP is not what eve is al about. I strongly advise that CCP rethink this policy and reevaluate thier stance on this subject. A pool should be taken by all players to determine such an idea, since we, the players can make or break the EVE universe...

Steeltongue
Posted - 2010.06.12 00:56:00 - [239]
 

I think I just heard the PAYING CUSTOMER ALERT.

Lakai Balthasar
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.06.12 00:57:00 - [240]
 

What i would like to know is that how many players this effects really, most people i know make their isk with mining, wormholes, anomalies or pvp. Are there even that many higsec lvl 5 runners.


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