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Br1ck
RaVal Thyokill Industies Inc.
Intergalactic Exports Group
Posted - 2010.06.11 22:10:00 - [181]
 

It seems to me that since the release of the complete waste of time that was dominion (which imo only benefited one alliance in game) there have been so many whiney posts by 0.0 players about how much isk high sec players make from missions that CCP has decided to nerf every aspect of it.

Nerfing missions won't get more people going to 0.0, the reason they're not going there is because CCP completely ballsed up the sovereignty mechanism so that only established alliances or pets stand any chance of surviving, the only thing this achieves is to **** off high sec players just as much as they have the null sec ones with the lag and ****ty taxes.

Phasmatisss
Posted - 2010.06.11 22:10:00 - [182]
 

I quite agree about CCP seemingly trying to tell it's player base what "they" should be doing in the game, not what they want to do.

Originally by: Norahb
I know it has been said here several times already but this is just plain dumb. Why you devs are hell bent on forcing 90% of players to adjust their play style to become victims for 10% I just do not understand. I have a feeling that you guys are about to be delivered a serious wake up call. There is no reason that anyone has to play this game. There are other games out there and there are other ways to spend ones free time. You CCP developers seem to have declared war on your main player base. Let's see how much fun your pirates have when there are no more victims for them when half your carebears quit not because they are angry but because you took their main activity in game out of the game. It is just plain stupid.

Mr LaForge
Posted - 2010.06.11 22:15:00 - [183]
 

This change didn't affect me in the least because I was bored of missions anyway and found better activities to occupy my time that are also more profitable with far less work.

JinMeiJim
Posted - 2010.06.11 22:17:00 - [184]
 

Edited by: JinMeiJim on 11/06/2010 22:19:36
CCP strikes again!

I hope this makes the number of lvl 5 mission that are run dwindle down to next to nothing. It's an absolutely pointless 'fix' as it doesn't 'fix' anything, just Inappropriate content removed.Applebabea load of people off.

I wonder if ccp ever thought about the fact that high sec lvl 5's could actually prepare people for higher value low sec lvl 5's?

You know I don't eve run missions and this has annoyed me!

CCP really does suck sometimes....but dont worry missions runners, you can suppliment your income with PI! I have a setup on a plasma planet that generates P2 items, i get 280k isk worth a day! Woooohoooo! I'll be making my money back in 4 years!

Facepalm
Amarr
Battlestars
Posted - 2010.06.11 22:20:00 - [185]
 

This game has PVP coming out of its ears. It's unaviodable and usually has appeal and balance. What it doesn't have and has ALWAYS needed is more challenging, dynamic, and FUN PVE where people can chill out and have some more conventional MMO-style fun. EVE PVE has always been mind numbing with the few exceptions of some of the more challenging missions and plexes. Nerfing what little challenging PVE you offer (which is what this is, cause the fun in running missions is flying a blinged out ship w/out having to deal with PVP interference) is the last thing that you people should be doing. I'd honestly be more in favor of nerfing mission payouts yet putting L5 agents & missions directly into hisec. Give us a challenge and let us fly those cool overpriced ships you keep creating!

JinMeiJim
Posted - 2010.06.11 22:23:00 - [186]
 

Originally by: Phasmatisss
I quite agree about CCP seemingly trying to tell it's player base what "they" should be doing in the game, not what they want to do.

Originally by: Norahb
I know it has been said here several times already but this is just plain dumb. Why you devs are hell bent on forcing 90% of players to adjust their play style to become victims for 10% I just do not understand. I have a feeling that you guys are about to be delivered a serious wake up call. There is no reason that anyone has to play this game. There are other games out there and there are other ways to spend ones free time. You CCP developers seem to have declared war on your main player base. Let's see how much fun your pirates have when there are no more victims for them when half your carebears quit not because they are angry but because you took their main activity in game out of the game. It is just plain stupid.



You have it all wrong! Eve is a sandbox environment! We make our own destiny! We decided how things pan out! horse****!

Saltpeter Taffy
Posted - 2010.06.11 22:28:00 - [187]
 

Originally by: Miyamoto Isoruku
ITT: Carebears whining about having to take a slight risk to do L5s.


As much as I hate, HATE siding with people who say stuff like this(turning "carebear" into a bad thing Evil or Very Mad), I have to agree. If you want to stay in high-sec, then you should not do level 5s. it's obvious that level 5s weren't intended to be like the other mission levels. Us carebears should just appreciate the level 5s we were able to get in.

CCP knew it would get a ton of flak for this. I think it's a good change. It makes level 5s seem more challenging. it just doesn't seem right that one should be able to solo them, anyway.

Heshmiet
Posted - 2010.06.11 22:33:00 - [188]
 

Well this isn't the smartest thing CCP has done, but had to be done. Yes, moving lvl 5 to low sec was a good thought, but other things should have been done first to level the playing field. They needed to be moved so that people will have player interactions (having to face pirates), but there is currently no uber-PVP/PVE combo solo fit or fleet fit. Meaning a PVE fit pirate (my choice: a speed tank tackler fit) will easily gank a PVP lvl 5 mission runner(s), by using the NPCs as weapons; that need to be addressed first. Second, is location location location, leaving lvl 5 agents in high sec but making lvl 5 missions low sec? really, think about that. So half your time is spent going from point A to point B, and hope your fleet can move with you, and yes pirates do know which systems agents like to send you to, and they do wait for someone(s).

Now, I am not just a crybaby. I have a few ideas, make the AI change targets (pirates would think twice about ganking a PVE fight with a PVP fit). Produce a simple uber anti-takler PVP fit. I suggest introducing a backtrack mechanism (either by new piece of equipment or attribute of web/disruptor), which would increase a tackler's sig radius while tackling. Otherwise, pirates will continue to speed tank tackle (tackle the ship, pop the drones, let NPCs gank for me), increase the sig radius/decreases tackler kill time/giving player the thrill of barely dieing/killing before death. Move the agents into low sec and cap jumps at 2 and make them random, no need to fly half across the eve-verse to do one mission, on average mission would happen in 1 of 20 systems spreading risk across multiple systems, decreases risk in any one system.

Sorry but the wife aggro didn't allow me to write a more well thought out reply.

Cheese Nippels
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.06.11 22:35:00 - [189]
 

-make more wormholes (just saying that because I want one and I hear they're mostly populated)
-make more lvl 5 agents, because I'm a lazy ass and can't be bothered flying to them.

I don't mind the lowsec/nulsec missiony business, but I think removing these occasional lvl 5 highsec missions is a strange move, fix some lag first, Although if it took 3 years for this...

Morris Kane
Posted - 2010.06.11 22:38:00 - [190]
 

as previously stated by people in these post.. leave level 5's for what they were..
Then introduce level 6 missions in low sec.. with all the bling that is supposed to go with that.
this what you will leave a ton of people happy... and create a new environment that will definitely merge pve and pvp aka level 6 missions in low sec.
I imagine most of the level 5 mission runners will even take the time and effort then to organize raids on those level 6 missions.. coordinate scouts and pvp fitted ships and the whole toot you will need to get them done...
But then again.. will the rewards be worth all that effort... level 5's sure the hell is not.

rofflesausage
Posted - 2010.06.11 22:42:00 - [191]
 

Originally by: Lord Union

I don't think there were any... You just got a ****-ton of ISK from bounties and salvage... that's about it tbh...



Salvage off L5s is usually quite poor, certainly since the meta 0 nerf. As for ISK...ermm...also not that great, and not a "****-ton" as you claim.
Highend L4's can give better overall ISK once you include salvage over some of the lower L5's.

Factor in *huge* faction standing hits if you take them, dodging pirates (in low sec) and standing grinding to get there makes them rather less profitable then you are claiming.
If you're soloing, they takes ages. In a fleet the rewards become diluted. In terms of ISK:Hour...I've done a lot better in Wormholes.

xavier69
Gallente
Stark Enterprises LLC
Posted - 2010.06.11 22:42:00 - [192]
 

I have to say this was really dumb, this isnít going to bring any more targets to low sec or 0.0

Us care bears will make due with level 4ís

As for low sec and 0.0 isnít that supposed to be the gay bar of pvp ? if you do a mission in low sec or 0.0 you are become a care bear...ROFL

I see this as a pathetic attempt at trying to revamp a failing pvp system that rewards Ganks and blobs that no single player is interested in and attempting to bring more targets to get horriblely ganked for the amusement of others

I Have 3+ RL years of skills in Ishtar and i have no intrested in 20v1 odds as how they do it in low sec and 0.0 after 4 yeras i know well enough how that song and dance goes and you can keep it.

Sorry CCP you made sure your players where smart and lethal even the care bears arenít that stupid

Good luck to you low sec guys doing those missions in your Battle Cruisers
that will turn out well..... ROFL

Chasten Ruin
Posted - 2010.06.11 22:50:00 - [193]
 

I'd just like to say I think these new changes are really short sighted and frankly, stupid.

Yesterdays dev blog had the Economic Report, and if you look at your own numbers youll notice the majority of the player base still resides in High Sec. This means a large percentage of the subscriber base is actually cute little fluffy carebears. Why does CCP keep beating carebears with the nerf stick?

Maybe legitimate problems should actually be fixed, like for instance: Insurance Fraud. People dont get paid if they crash their own cars in real life, yet in EVE its an industry. We continue to let insurance fraud run rampant and instead we penalize the PvE players. These changes seem to have done more to buff piracy than fix any kind of bugs.

Look at all the incentives CCP has put in the game over the years to get carebears out into low/null sec. High end minerals, pirate corps with hybrid battleship rewards, moon mining, wormhole space, live events, all the new stuff caters solely to the least populated areas of the game. Yet none of these things has had the desired effect of driving legions of carebears to low/null sec. Why? Theres no content in low/null except blob warfare and POS bashing. Maybe adding real content to the game and legitimate paths that bring players to low sec should be the focus of the dev team instead of just taking more and more away from carebears.

Every patch seems to add more content for the PvP players and neglects or nerfs the content for PvE players. PI can be done in high sec, but the quantities you generate dwarf those you receive in Low/Null.

Meanwhile carebears no longer get as many faction loot drops, they get less loot, they get less minerals from repro, and now have to mitigate getting sent to lowsec every other mission. Not to mention with the nerf to scanning CCP has made it easier for pirates to prey on carebears by making it easier to find them and kill them than it was before.

Why do you guys continue to crap on the carebears? We are the ones paying the bills. We are also stimulating the economy to great lengths buying mission ships with high end mods from people farming missions and LP in low/null sec. I spent 2.5B ISK buying a ship to do level 5's because I wanted to experience new content only to find a majority of the missions are against factions (creating havoc with my standings) or stupid drone missions (that have no bounties and now have even less loot than before)

The reasoning we're given for these changes is never consistent. It changes all the time. Every single reason is a bunch of horse crap. Ive seen it said this was done for "load balancing" in lower pop sectors. Its been said this was done so mission runners only make enough ISK per hour to be level with high sec miners. That this was done to push more carebears to low/null sec. Its different every time, but the result is the same. Carebears stay in high sec and suck up all the changes or quit altogether.

Sure, following the recent patch, more people were connected at one time than has ever been connected, but the two weeks leading up to patch we only averaged about 30k people online at once. In other words, subscribers are dropping like canaries in a coal mine. With all the expensive marketing driving people in on trial accounts we still manage to only take 2 steps forward with one step back and never have more than 50k people connected for any length of time. This game has a huge problem with customer retention and a big part of that in my opinion is because CCP keeps taking content away from carebears in order to please the pirates and pvpers.

Its been said over and over "EvE is a sandbox, you choose the way you play" but more and more of those choices keep getting limited and taken away. It seems the only to really enjoy this game is to beat on newbies and suicide gank in high sec because NOBODY flies expensive ships in low/null. So why kill them when they can fight back and drop crap

Sroc
Posted - 2010.06.11 22:56:00 - [194]
 

Edited by: Sroc on 11/06/2010 22:57:13
Ok, seriously?

I cannot believe all the people going on and on about NO MORE HI SEC LVL V's OH NOES!!!!

You guys aren't "entitled" to them you know. The whole point/structure of EVE is supposed to be a risk vs reward system. That's what makes null and low sec appealing, are the better opportunities/rewards. And hi sec exists for those who want to play it safe. Or I suppose you'd like all the null sec ore moved up to hi sec too so you wouldn't have to take any risk to make profit mining? Or maybe you think people should be able to dock their titans up in hi sec stations so there was never any risk of them being destroyed.

CCP is trying to retain the nature of the game, and I applaud them for it. This isn't World of Warcraft, things are supposed to be handed to you on a platter.

And let's play devil's advocate here for just a bit. A large percentage of low sec groups make the bulk of their isk running those lvl 5's because they are banned from hi security space so they safely make isk via other means. Short of throwing up a POS Tower, keeping lvl 5's out of hi sec is one of the best ways to make it easier for pirate groups to make isk and in general improve the low sec market/economy.

--Sroc

Sam Bowein
Sense Amid Madness
Posted - 2010.06.11 22:57:00 - [195]
 

What I see behind this "bug fix" is that CCP hates players earning a lot of ISK without spending anything to replace their ships or equipement.

Because then they use this money to buy GTC or Plexes.

Pew plz
Posted - 2010.06.11 22:58:00 - [196]
 

Oh no. A feature intended to be lowsec is now lowsec only. Damn you CCP! Why did you do this to me, This seriously hurts my game. You are all pirates who hate carebears. We are people too. Since you did this I'm gonna cancel my 38 accounts and tell all my "friends" (This is a joke, carebears don't have friends) to do it too so we can play WOW fulltime and just do meaningless grinding over and over again without actually having a real effect on the world we're playing in. This game sucks!

Get over it. If you want isk, you'd run L4s anyway, if you want challenge, go plexing. Then you get the actual surprise at the end, "Do I get a drop this time or not?" Or just become a 0.0 renter and make stupid amounts of isk with basically no risk. This is of course if you're not a dumb moron and actually know game mechanics. If you don't you will die/be kicked and can go back to WOW or the game with the cute kitty.

Oh, and 90% of the playerbase being highsec players? You're obviously one of the clueless carebears who think that just because Motsu is full all the time that means everyone except a few basementdwellers live in highsec. Take a look at Dotlan, the 10 biggest alliances have around 30k members or so. Which should be about 10% alone. Granted, not all of them actually live in 0.0 but there are lots of smaller alliances in 0.0 that more than makes up for that number.

And last, I don't know how many players this applies to but I run 5 accounts where 3-4 of them live in highsec. But their only purpose is to feed my 0.0 main iskies. So even though I technically live mostly in highsec, which area do you think I give a rats ass about?

raukosen
Posted - 2010.06.11 23:00:00 - [197]
 

Carebear tears, who could've guessed?

People who've never done lowsec / 0.0 missions saying it's suicide, who could've guessed?

Fairy Commando
Posted - 2010.06.11 23:00:00 - [198]
 

Only did a lvl5 once.. I like low sec,, not in a mission ship even a cheap one.
There is 10 gankers for every carebear so doing lvl5s is not really an option for small gangs its not risky.. its suicide, risky is fun, suicide not so fun.
Same "pvp'ers" whining about the lack of ppl flying "soft" targets into low sec
so they can get easy omglol kills :)

Maybe talk to the carebears about them flying more barges, haulers and expensive mission ships out where you can omglol blow them up, im sure they will see you point of view and feel sorry about your lack of explosions and loot, and for not playing in your sandbox.

I like going to low-sec.. in gangs of pvpships or small fast ship solo. and i love ganking those blinky guys.




Pew plz
Posted - 2010.06.11 23:01:00 - [199]
 

Originally by: Sam Bowein
What I see behind this "bug fix" is that CCP hates players earning a lot of ISK without spending anything to replace their ships or equipement.

Because then they use this money to buy GTC or Plexes.


What's this you moron? Where do you think PLEX come from? Do you think CCP is paid in ISK? You really have no clue and just clicked this link because it was on the login screen didn't you? PLEX are bought with RL money and then resold for isk. CCP don't care one way or another about WHO pays them money. They make the same amount of money even if all the players but one was paying with plex.

Sam Bowein, you are stupid.

Daenosa
Ghost Festival
Posted - 2010.06.11 23:01:00 - [200]
 

People moan that eve is becoming to carebear-fied, now people are moaning its to harsh.

Its not a failfix, just a half fix.
increase the payout of level 5's slightly to compensate, add acceleration gates to all missions to help combat pirates.
Maybe add a bunch more level 5 agents so theres more choice of systems to run them in

But otherwise you lot moan to much, last week it was low sec needs a buff, it gets one and now CCP are the worst company ever apparently.

Fariagus
Posted - 2010.06.11 23:02:00 - [201]
 

Here's a simple fix to this problem for both sides. Make it so most (70-80%) of lvl 5 missions have pass cards or something to get into them. These of course will be given by the agent upon accepting the mission. This still keeps pvp action, with having to get to the system of the mission. As well as makes the mission runner a bit happier since they can complete the mission without watching their back and being tweakers. Lets all be honest most who mission run or stay in high sec want a laid back game environment. This gives them that and still allows all those naughty piwates the chance for a kill. Now this can change low sec and those 0.0 systems given by the lvl 5s forever since people could literally hide in the missions while they build fleets or whatever. But that sounds like a awesome feature to me. Pvpers want pvp well give it to them.

skychyld
Posted - 2010.06.11 23:03:00 - [202]
 

very well put chasten ruin ... I get nearly daily reminders why I spend so much more time now playing fantasy **** mods on Oblivion instead of the 10 hours I used to spend playing eve.

Umega
Solis Mensa
Posted - 2010.06.11 23:05:00 - [203]
 

Originally by: xavier69

Good luck to you low sec guys doing those missions in your Battle Cruisers
that will turn out well..... ROFL



Good job on earning stupid's quote of the thread there, man. Really.. you do carebears proud with that legendary remark. Shows jus' how little most understand and can only look for the simplistic, easy road.

For the 'I am a casual player' remarks.. so? Really, whats the point of that. As if there isn't a **** load of casual pirates, low, null sec players. How about an arguement with an actual foundation you can base an arguement off of centered around your view alone.

As for the guy that claims, on his starter school alt.. he is in a corp that apparently doesn't want to go fight for space to have easier access and avialablity to safer lvl 5s. Well guess what.. others have, and do them well and often. Try imagining stepping up from a battleship into say.. carrier. Oh yeah.. people do them in battlecruisers apparently. Rolling Eyes

Heres a good quote..

CCP shouldn't have to fix spineless cowards, and stupid. Especially at 15 USD a head. You want something in EVE.. go f'in take it yourself instead of crying to mommy to hold your hand. Others have done it.. just cause you can't, don't blame CCP. Blame yourself.

Chasten Ruin
Posted - 2010.06.11 23:07:00 - [204]
 

Level 5s were NOT supposed to be low sec. Why did they seed Level 5 agents all over high sec and then shut them off? That excuse is a bunch of horse crap. Check the agent finder and youll find tons and tons of level 5 agents in high sec that have been disabled.

If you want more players in low/null, how bout opening up Jove space finally?

Shade Millith
Caldari
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.06.11 23:11:00 - [205]
 

Edited by: Shade Millith on 11/06/2010 23:15:44
Well at least CCP's fixing old bugs to do with mission running.

PVPer's got a shafting this patch. PVEer's can have one too.

Originally by: Chasten Ruin
Level 5s were NOT supposed to be low sec. Why did they seed Level 5 agents all over high sec and then shut them off? That excuse is a bunch of horse crap. Check the agent finder and youll find tons and tons of level 5 agents in high sec that have been disabled.


As for YOU, yes, they were. The original intention for L5's was for them to be lowsec only, as stated by CCP when they were first introduced. IIRC they made a mistake putting some L5 agents in highsec, and had a bug that sent some missions into highsec, problem is the usual CCP time to fix something basic, like rockets

Viktoria Potsfel
Posted - 2010.06.11 23:12:00 - [206]
 

Edited by: Viktoria Potsfel on 11/06/2010 23:17:54
This is not gonna bring more ppl to low, its gonna make less ppl do lvl5s
stop nerfing high-sec and start buffing low-sec.

Wanna buff pvp and pve at the same time?..
make taxing every kill(like 1-2%) in a system you own a possibility,
to make nrds viable again.
The recent changes w upkeep and upgrades(nice)
has made it a practical impossibility.

Pew plz
Posted - 2010.06.11 23:13:00 - [207]
 

Edited by: Pew plz on 11/06/2010 23:16:44
Originally by: Umega
Originally by: xavier69

Good luck to you low sec guys doing those missions in your Battle Cruisers
that will turn out well..... ROFL



Good job on earning stupid's quote of the thread there, man. Really.. you do carebears proud with that legendary remark. Shows jus' how little most understand and can only look for the simplistic, easy road.

For the 'I am a casual player' remarks.. so? Really, whats the point of that. As if there isn't a **** load of casual pirates, low, null sec players. How about an arguement with an actual foundation you can base an arguement off of centered around your view alone.

Edit: My point being that if you really like to run L5s, get together with friends who like the same thing, make a corp and secure an area with a l5 agent in it. Chase the pirates out.

As for the guy that claims, on his starter school alt.. he is in a corp that apparently doesn't want to go fight for space to have easier access and avialablity to safer lvl 5s. Well guess what.. others have, and do them well and often. Try imagining stepping up from a battleship into say.. carrier. Oh yeah.. people do them in battlecruisers apparently. Rolling Eyes

Heres a good quote..

CCP shouldn't have to fix spineless cowards, and stupid. Especially at 15 USD a head. You want something in EVE.. go f'in take it yourself instead of crying to mommy to hold your hand. Others have done it.. just cause you can't, don't blame CCP. Blame yourself.


Finally a post that made sense. For the people who think Golems or Rattlers are the endgame ship for everyone in Eve, the FOTM is angel ships. Running Angel missions make you stupid rich. The problem is that Angel missions are in Curse, Curse is 0.0. Even worse, it's NPC 0.0. Very dangerous. How can you get to do these missions then? Go TAKE them. There is an alliance called Darkside. They are very good, and they are also rich bastards since they have control over the best constellation in Curse. They got it by not playing Eve Offline. Risk vs Reward.. Highsec shouldn't make you rich.

ugal
Posted - 2010.06.11 23:15:00 - [208]
 

level 5 missions are not a myth, woopie, so i just need to cruise 0.0 space to find one . tried searches for them but never got results, glad to know they acuttally are real .
dreamwizardops.com
thanks DreamWizard

Kimbeau Surveryor
Gallente
Posted - 2010.06.11 23:19:00 - [209]
 

I am a serious carebear. To me, the challenge in Eve is to make ISK as fast as possible, PvP simply does not attract me. I hate losing an expensive ship. It makes me sick to the stomach and usually results in me leaving Eve for a few days until that feeling passes. (I do not exaggerate, it's a very physical feeling.) This is nothing to be ashamed of; people are different. I understand that there are some people totally different to me; people who don't really mind losses, and who get such a high from vaporizing a victim that for them the balance is heavily in favour of PvP being fun. I don't like such people (because they sometimes kill me), but I don't despise them. More importantly, I recognise that every time they destroy material, I make a profit. I certainly don't understand why killbears have such a hatefest towards the carebears who manufacture their toys.

Anyway, Level 5s now hold no attraction to me personally. They are a poor investment risk so they don't fit with my personal ambitions in Eve. One bit of fun that's no longer open to me. And the less fun I have as I work towards my aims, the more likely I am to go find another game to play.

p.s. PI makes courier missions seem exciting (and profitable). :-D

Isaiah Harms
Loki's Marauders
Dragoons.
Posted - 2010.06.11 23:21:00 - [210]
 

I hope CCP's CEO get's this message. Removing Lvl 5 mission to low sec is a poor business move. I understand you want more people to move to low-sec/null-sec. That's fine. But honestly you got a complicated game. Nobody's going to gain the confidence to fight in low/null sec without practice. Instead of trashing high-sec level 5's I'd encourage even more in high-sec. Get PVE'ers to HAVE to fly with corp-mates to run a level 5 (why not 6's and 7's?) Pssst... When they begin working in groups they'll be less afraid to live in low-sec/null-sec. Where hopefully you'll put MORE profitable lvl 5 and greater missions.

I honestly don't understand CCP's backward thinking. It reminds me of a bunch of managers who think implementing this tweak or that tweak will make a radical difference to the game (noobs). Get some real leadership in CCP who realize that the players are customers, not your fans. Keep PVE'ers happy. I'd hate to have to quit playing EVE Online because all the PVE guys quit and you go bankrupt. SadSad


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