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xSilk Roadx
Posted - 2010.06.11 20:42:00 - [151]
 

Originally by: Mealtrom
I gotta say this seems like a silly and counterproductive use of time to me, albeit one that I don't care a lot about. When you consider that level 5s:

  • Take lots of people to run quickly and safely.

  • Take comparably longer than level 4s for profit earned.

  • Tend to murder your standings.

  • Dont generate storylines (to my knowledge).

  • Were already hard to pull in highsec.


... it just seems silly to raise the degree of risk. Most people take level 5s because they enjoy the diversity of missions, the new stories, and the added PVE challenge. Not for the thrill of risking their uber passive tanked rattlesnake in lowsec. The ones in it for the money tend to stick to speed grinding level 4s. The ones wanting PVP lite are in faction warfare or piracy. What purpose does this serve. What player gains enjoyment from it? There are much less arbitrary, and more effective, ways to generate traffic to lowsec. All you're doing is making a slightly worthless feature an incredibly worthless feature.


>THIS<

I say either scrap 5's altogether or move 3's and 4's into lowsec. I know the carebears will cry tears but hey, lowsec is not that dangerous!

SirRalph
Minmatar
U.K.R.A.I.N.E
SOLAR FLEET
Posted - 2010.06.11 20:46:00 - [152]
 

So instead of whining, form a corporation, take over a lowsec pocket, run L5s as much as you want. In carrier.

ggell
Posted - 2010.06.11 20:48:00 - [153]
 

Edited by: ggell on 11/06/2010 20:49:56
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
CCP Molock and GM Nythanos provide an update on Level 5 missions and EVE Online: Tyrannis.

Greetings,

###########lolz hit me with another beer til i finish writing this s**t ########did u apply for that job next year?####yeah,me too####i hope our marketing guys are drunk too,just these few months til we hit bancruptcy######man,what was the name of our latest "patch" (slight momment of confusion,google search and/or hands reaching for phones)?#### who should we say wrote this?which one of u was in line? oh,molock and nyathos?HAHA!
CCP Molock and GM Nythanos



that seems more like it, the new trend in ccp's policy so i made the necessary adjustements.
still,i have to say something for all those really great pvp-ers that are laughing,remember that one time u DID kill that uber expensive carebear ship? not gonna happen in the future.so keep pumping money into eve,u'll get some decent t1 cruisers,bcs or worthless bss kills,u won't be able to buy anyhing from their drops and ur gonna go ratting,running plexes or even(!!!!!) running l5's for isk.or ofc u can go buy isk for money,in which case i really hope u'll get caught and banned:)
anyways,this so called patch keeps on getting better with every day,i might be wrong but maybe ccp wants to get rid of a large part of its subscribers and i wonder how many of these 40K+ online are actually playing eve and aren't but some alts ..."just cruisin'".
best wishes ccp,i see u have ur greatest minds working hard ...(that was an irony,just so u know:)





Afrodite Draconis
Posted - 2010.06.11 20:49:00 - [154]
 

Originally by: Shin Dari
Edited by: Shin Dari on 11/06/2010 20:26:43
Originally by: Umega
Can cry 'force' if it helps some of you feel better.

Not really forced to do anything. Either do it, or don't, or leave. Choice still remains yours.

If you want to claim CCP is forcing anything.. they are forcing people to make friends. Is that really so bad? I know it might be difficult for some of you, but this is after all an MMO.. and some aspects of it require other people's help/guidence/co-op to get things accomplished.
There are several problems with this argument of yours:
1. Most of us are already in a player corp (friends).
2. Typical low sec pirates are untrustworthy sociopaths with a sprinkle of cowardliness.
3. And most casual players have a life, and won't spend hours waiting for anything to arrive in a system.


Typical lowsec pirates are players who are having fun in this game.

So because you do have a life, and you are casual player, everything must be handed to you in this game? You must get everything what the ones get who play this game 12 hours a day! Because you are a casual player. You have a life.

Casual player and having a life is pretty damn poor argument.

Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
Posted - 2010.06.11 20:53:00 - [155]
 

Originally by: Kinroi Alari
Edited by: Kinroi Alari on 11/06/2010 18:24:31
Edited by: Kinroi Alari on 11/06/2010 18:23:55
Originally by: Dave Hourai
Funny thing to me is that no one has mentioned ransoming the space. If I lived in a low sec with a level 5 I would have no issues renting my non-violence out to a missioner; he want to finish the mission or do missions there, he can pay us a part of the earning/profit for not only us leaving him alone, but BETTER yet, for us to protect him, leading to pvp against other pirate corps, ISK from the runner (if he dies we would buy his hac/bs/carrier) and general fun all around. Granted he could bring his own corp but then hes putting all of them at risk instead of ensuring his survival/protection with US. We wouldn't go into the mission and he wouldn't have to split LP/bounties (except a small portion of the earnings). This could be done per week or per mission, depending on the contract.



*awards points*
That's a good idea IMNSHO!
(Tho I still think ya need moar null sec Wink )

I gotta admit that I've been interested by this ever since Mynxee mentioned it in a past post. Maybe not for L5s or L4s, but I'd be interested in something like this for chuckles and grins L3s.


5 years ago that might have worked when there were still pirates honoring ransoms. Nowadays that will certainly not work because I can guarantee that 99% of them will take the money and still shoot the "dumb, worthless carebear" if just for the lulz and another scratch on the allmighty KB.

ScapeGoat1
Posted - 2010.06.11 20:53:00 - [156]
 

Congratulations on making L5 missions obsolete.

If you are going to leave them in low sec i suggest increasing the payout to make them worth doing

At current time it is not worth the risk to do them in low sec.

Doing them in high sec with a group of multiple players was already not paying out as much as those players splitting into L4 missions, it was only worthwhile to a player multi-boxing to avoid splitting profits.

This change is bad, like the contacts list / standings change. Figure something else out or leave it broken like so many other things you have done.

Aldur vale
Caldari
The 1AU-High Club
Posted - 2010.06.11 20:57:00 - [157]
 

Originally by: SirRalph
So instead of whining, form a corporation, take over a lowsec pocket, run L5s as much as you want. In carrier.


Hey, your a clever troll aren't you.
do your homework, caps can't use acceleration gates.

/facepalm/

le Madam
Posted - 2010.06.11 20:58:00 - [158]
 

Fail fix.
Risk vs reward is too low. Also flying with PVE fitted ship through lowsec always means lost, except luck.
I would agree only with one thing, if it would be impossible to probe out missionier, who runs mission with gate or
gates would allow only him or his fleet to pass. (No interruption during mission).

CPL Madison
Posted - 2010.06.11 21:00:00 - [159]
 

Shocked

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2010.06.11 21:01:00 - [160]
 

Good, finally fixed a long-standing bug.

Aldur vale
Caldari
The 1AU-High Club
Posted - 2010.06.11 21:02:00 - [161]
 

Originally by: Afrodite Draconis
Originally by: Shin Dari
Edited by: Shin Dari on 11/06/2010 20:26:43
Originally by: Umega
Can cry 'force' if it helps some of you feel better.

Not really forced to do anything. Either do it, or don't, or leave. Choice still remains yours.

If you want to claim CCP is forcing anything.. they are forcing people to make friends. Is that really so bad? I know it might be difficult for some of you, but this is after all an MMO.. and some aspects of it require other people's help/guidence/co-op to get things accomplished.
There are several problems with this argument of yours:
1. Most of us are already in a player corp (friends).
2. Typical low sec pirates are untrustworthy sociopaths with a sprinkle of cowardliness.
3. And most casual players have a life, and won't spend hours waiting for anything to arrive in a system.


Typical lowsec pirates are players who are having fun in this game.

So because you do have a life, and you are casual player, everything must be handed to you in this game? You must get everything what the ones get who play this game 12 hours a day! Because you are a casual player. You have a life.

Casual player and having a life is pretty damn poor argument.


Same argument to you good sir, why should you get anything?
This is everyone's game, not just the pirates game. The fact that every pirate i run into is a dishonourable lowlife ar$£hole also makes me less inclined to agree with you.
Grow up. Get a life, 12 hours a day on the PC is unhealthy. Get a girl, man up and quit bellyaching!

Jon LucPicard
Posted - 2010.06.11 21:04:00 - [162]
 

Originally by: Ehranavaar
definitely not one of the fixes i appreciate. as a mission runner i used to enjoy the odd level 5 despite the fact it was no more remunerative than 4's were given i did them with a single ship. perhaps the next quarterly report can illustrate just how much level 5's drop off once they are low sec only. i know i certainly won't be doing any more as i'm suicide averse. thank you ccp for limiting what the bulk of your players can do in favour of the minority.


Couldn't have said it better myself. I liked to do 5's on occasion solo just for a change of pace. Au revoir, 5's.

BlackBeard NL
Posted - 2010.06.11 21:16:00 - [163]
 

rifter: 300k isk
typhoon: 50 mil isk
typhoon fleet issue: 400 mil isk
carebear tears: priceless

harharhar come to papa!Twisted EvilTwisted EvilTwisted Evil

Aldur vale
Caldari
The 1AU-High Club
Posted - 2010.06.11 21:17:00 - [164]
 

Originally by: BlackBeard NL
rifter: 300k isk
typhoon: 50 mil isk
typhoon fleet issue: 400 mil isk
carebear tears: priceless

harharhar come to papa!Twisted EvilTwisted EvilTwisted Evil


Perfect example of why no one will run level 5s any more Laughing

Perky C
Posted - 2010.06.11 21:17:00 - [165]
 

Originally by: Pegasus IX
fix FAIL

Losec / null lvl 5s are suicide. With rewards only marginally better than L4 missions, it would be pointless to run these "with protection".

I would know too - my corp was very involved in L5 missioning, and more often than not we got popped as soon as we dared try one in losec.

One more thing to add... since I no longer need to run my own fleet, there is one account canceled for sure, and maybe my other two will follow as I am loosing interest very fast.Mad


than donate your stuff to yours truly. I will enjoy getting blown up in new stuff

Flamehaired Death
Posted - 2010.06.11 21:20:00 - [166]
 

CCP has always intended missions to be done more often by fleets than solo. This is particularly true of Level 5.

Obviously the changes that place missions in low sec are intended to create exactly this situation where PVE and PVP will frequently overlap during missions. Thus fleets able to defend against PVP visitors during missions will be required. The positive aspect is that when PVP does not take place missions will be completed in 1/4 the normal time or less, such that net reward per unit of mission time wil be about the same.


CCP intended that richer players would risk T2 ships to potential PVP. Among other things T2 losses would counter the tendency for older toons to play free on PLEXes sold by newer players scrambling to catch up quickly. That is not to say CCP wants to kill off the PLEX trade, just provide some equalization to prevent player complaints about unfairness.

Taki Zalem
Posted - 2010.06.11 21:20:00 - [167]
 

Is there any other "bug" your so coled pvpers should like you to "fix" lvl4 missions to?
Mby rating all day in single sistems enring more than mission runer in god knows what time.
oh i know lets just give them isk then theyl be happy...

adriaans
Amarr
Ankaa.
Nair Al-Zaurak
Posted - 2010.06.11 21:25:00 - [168]
 

Edited by: adriaans on 11/06/2010 21:26:23
Edited by: adriaans on 11/06/2010 21:26:08
Originally by: Dave Hourai
Originally by: Kinroi Alari
Originally by: Dave Hourai
PVP IS THE NAME OF THIS GAME PEOPLE. IF IT WASN'T THERE WOULDNT BE WARS AND 0.0
you want only pve content, play WoW.


But...
How come all your kills are in Archee and Decon?
Seems to me that you're avoiding real PVP --
Come out to null sec! ^_^


Where the bubbles and blobs are? 600 man lag-fest fleets? No thx! :D No real pvp is the small anti-pirate gangs who come to kill us. Or the logistics fielding battleship gangs who fight us. Or the hot drops we get, and try to turn around.

Back to the fix:

Funny thing to me is that no one has mentioned ransoming the space. If I lived in a low sec with a level 5 I would have no issues renting my non-violence out to a missioner; he want to finish the mission or do missions there, he can pay us a part of the earning/profit for not only us leaving him alone, but BETTER yet, for us to protect him, leading to pvp against other pirate corps, ISK from the runner (if he dies we would buy his hac/bs/carrier) and general fun all around. Granted he could bring his own corp but then hes putting all of them at risk instead of ensuring his survival/protection with US. We wouldn't go into the mission and he wouldn't have to split LP/bounties (except a small portion of the earnings). This could be done per week or per mission, depending on the contract.

An idea.




This, I've tried to make people pay me before, but apparently they seem to prefer hiding in high sec and making 1/4th the isk or loosing their entire gang Twisted Evil In fact most of them will insult you so bad im not sure half of the words even exist.. which obviously means no negotiationRolling Eyes

thats said, I've managed to make deals before and the ones doing the mission have been very satisfied so it most certainly works.



whiners: why the hell do you need a 2-3b rattlesnake for the missions? i dual account them where the ships cost me 550m total... :/ and it's pretty much impossible to catch unless you're stupid.

edit: yes in low-sec. The best place to make isk in eve ugh and to pvpYARRRR!!

Flamehaired Death
Posted - 2010.06.11 21:27:00 - [169]
 

The outcry is about level 1-4 missions. That is, at the moment the redistribution to lo sec affects all level so missions -- not just level 5.

Keep in mind that all levels of missions are now being distributed to nearby less busy systems and that this usually means lo sec or 0.0.


Julia Venatrix
Posted - 2010.06.11 21:29:00 - [170]
 

I reckon this is a dumb change, because the results it will generate are not good for Eve or CCP.

See, I expect that the result of the change is simply that many fewer players will run L5s, and some of them will quit, as a playstyle which CCP had catered for over the last three years has now been made untenable. Taking a ship fit for L5s to the lowsec systems on the borders of hise where the current farmable agents giving L5s are is like bringing a knife to a gunfight, because it is those interface systems which are the dangerous ones.

It doesn't really matter if you're a pirate, a carebear, or a nullsec denizen - people quitting is bad. They don't give you their stuff when they go play WOW. Fewer subscriptions mean that CCP has less money to pay developers to do the other things we would like to see (rockets, AFs, fleetfight performance, L6s, T2 tier 3 BS, covops tier 2 BCs, whatever). And if you are CCP, obsoleting content which you have already developed, and which was being used to keep customers paying for those subscriptions seems foolish.

If L5s were generating too much ISK, or too much loot, then nerfing the reward rather than buffing the risk associated with them would have been a more controllable solution, where future balancing could be done simply by amending lookup tables for loot, rather than needing to generate new content.

If lowsec was too little used, then generating new balanced content to attract new denizens would seem to have been a more appropriate solution. Particularly content that addresses the fundamental problem with current missions: that PvE fits are poor at PvP, but cost much much more than PvP fits.

Kell Braugh
Dawn of a new Empire
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.06.11 21:30:00 - [171]
 

Edited by: Kell Braugh on 11/06/2010 21:32:35
Grats to CCP for finally fixing a long withstanding bug.

Granted fixing lag in large scale battles is a bit more pressing-- its nice to see CCP at least getting the low hanging fruit out of the way so to speak.

If this means countless empire-hugging mission runners emoragequit their accounts-- good. Should drive down the isk supply from bounties and overall should lower the price index.

Remove local from 0.0 and we will be back on track to a true risk vs reward mechanic back in the game.

Oh, and to the niegh sayers who think level 5 are dead-- they aren't. You just have to go a bit deeper into lowsec Twisted Evil

Meeko Atari
Posted - 2010.06.11 21:31:00 - [172]
 

This is the best part of the Tyrannis expansion in my book !!

Never thought CCP would have the guts!


Yay CCP Laughing


Seed Frontier
Posted - 2010.06.11 21:37:00 - [173]
 

http://www2.pic-upload.de/19.04.10/89ncvuca8hte.jpg
http://www.pic-upload.de/view-536158...lvl-5.jpg.html


LvL 5 generation no LvL 5 Storyline aha :D

Thx CCP to get some LvL 5er Mission okay back to lvl 4


Flamehaired Death
Posted - 2010.06.11 21:40:00 - [174]
 

I suspect that CCP will roll out some better rewards for level 5 missions AFTER they tune them so that ONLY strong fleets attempt them.

I am guessing Level 5 missions are intended to cause exciting small and medium fleet battles over rewards - as opposed to the large scale blob battles currently the rage in 0.0. Something in between militia chaos and the blob battles.

That is Level 5 mission rewards are supposed to be frequently subjected to ganking attempts and PVP struggles. Thus the rewards remained nerfed prior to this fix.


I am not sure but I think the current level 5 rewards were an attempt to discourage completion by high powered SOLO players or very small weak fleets under the broken threat PVP distribution.



Lord Union
Posted - 2010.06.11 21:42:00 - [175]
 

Originally by: Phasmatisss
Most wormholes have already been located and have pos's in them. Getting found in a WH quickly is common now a days.


So? I have never heard of a PoS getting blown up while in W-space... (Could be wrong due to my EVE 'age', so post any kb's telling me otherwise)...

Also, I don't think CCP intend for missions and mining to all be about "making ISK." Same goes with Planetary Interaction. I hear about carebears *****ing that it won't bring them alot of ISK either, as if it was to be used to put dinner on their table and a roof over their heads...

Playing a game for the sheer lulz of making money is both vain and egotistical in a gaming point of view. No one (except for maybe Exxon Mobile or BP) goes to work everyday jerking themselves off at how much money they make on a daily basis. Why should a game be like that?

lvl 5's, imo, were about the increase in the standings you could get with the fractions you are helping out. NOT the rewards you could get for doing them. Standings enable various things: jump clones, empire space PoS, faction bpc's, implants, etc.

Mining (before THEIR nerf) provided minerals used in manufacturing of almost ALL modules and equipment. Salvaging still does the same in the way of rigs. Ice is mined for fuel for towers.

Now PI will allow players to 'extract' the last bit of resources independently of the turmoils of 'empire space'. With the ability to build and mange PoS's without the need of 'buying materials off the market', players can establish a relative ISK-independent life away from pirates, SOV. amd other such bs 'casual' players like to bring...

Tbh, I think alot of people miss the point about this game. ISK is only a means to an end. What you BUY with that ISK determines how much fun with the game. It's ALOT more enjoyable when you can make all that you need on your own, and not need ISK. If you love just doing missions, then just do missions. If you love exploring wormholes, explore those holes like a 41-year old virgin. If you love pew pew... then teabag those eggs like the abused gf you sleep with at night...


But to play a game just to accumulate "fake" wealth, is pretty sad (the exception would be a trader of sorts, but most of them are con-artist, scammers, and scum). It's never about the ISK... It's what the ISK gets you...

THAT'S what makes EVE fun...

Phasmatisss
Posted - 2010.06.11 21:45:00 - [176]
 

It still amazes me that in a game that is suppossed to have something for everyone, that Pirates/PvPers seem to think they own Eve and that carebears are all wrong and should be gone from the game. Even more so that CCP seems to endorse this view.

Originally by: Julia Venatrix
I reckon this is a dumb change, because the results it will generate are not good for Eve or CCP.

If lowsec was too little used, then generating new balanced content to attract new denizens would seem to have been a more appropriate solution. Particularly content that addresses the fundamental problem with current missions: that PvE fits are poor at PvP, but cost much much more than PvP fits.

Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
Posted - 2010.06.11 21:49:00 - [177]
 

So, not quite a derail but

could you name some high value drops that were common in Lvl 5s ? any implants? books? tags? that were common?

Lord Union
Posted - 2010.06.11 21:52:00 - [178]
 

Edited by: Lord Union on 11/06/2010 21:53:25
Originally by: Diomedes Calypso
So, not quite a derail but

could you name some high value drops that were common in Lvl 5s ? any implants? books? tags? that were common?


I don't think there were any... You just got a ****-ton of ISK from bounties and salvage... that's about it tbh...

Oh, and a good amount of LP's as well... I remember doing logi. for one of my corp.'s and getting enough LP for a Hookbill bpc to build on...

Shin Dari
Caldari
Posted - 2010.06.11 22:00:00 - [179]
 

Originally by: Afrodite Draconis
Originally by: Shin Dari
Edited by: Shin Dari on 11/06/2010 20:26:43
Originally by: Umega
Can cry 'force' if it helps some of you feel better.

Not really forced to do anything. Either do it, or don't, or leave. Choice still remains yours.

If you want to claim CCP is forcing anything.. they are forcing people to make friends. Is that really so bad? I know it might be difficult for some of you, but this is after all an MMO.. and some aspects of it require other people's help/guidence/co-op to get things accomplished.
There are several problems with this argument of yours:
1. Most of us are already in a player corp (friends).
2. Typical low sec pirates are untrustworthy sociopaths with a sprinkle of cowardliness.
3. And most casual players have a life, and won't spend hours waiting for anything to arrive in a system.


Typical lowsec pirates are players who are having fun in this game.
Fun for you perhaps. But thankfully not everyone is like you.

Quote:
So because you do have a life, and you are casual player, everything must be handed to you in this game? You must get everything what the ones get who play this game 12 hours a day! Because you are a casual player. You have a life.

Casual player and having a life is pretty damn poor argument.
Actually it is an argument. Considering it's a sandbox game and that the casual gamer is a major section of the gaming market.

Also I noticed by the tone of your post that I must have hit a pretty sore spot.

Norahb
Posted - 2010.06.11 22:06:00 - [180]
 

Edited by: Norahb on 11/06/2010 22:24:02
I know it has been said here several times already but this is just plain dumb. Why you devs are hell bent on forcing 90% of players to adjust their play style to become victims for 10% I just do not understand. I have a feeling that you guys are about to be delivered a serious wake up call. There is no reason that anyone has to play this game. There are other games out there and there are other ways to spend ones free time. You CCP developers seem to have declared war on your main player base. Let's see how much fun your pirates have when there are no more victims for them when half your carebears quit not because they are angry but because you took their main activity in game out of the game. It is just plain stupid.

Many people in this thread are talking as if PvP is fun as a matter of fact. Different people like different things. Some People like PvP and some just don't that opinion is subjective and not objective. It is not a matter of "can't" as if carebears are incapable of PvP.

Many people are saying that low sec isn't that hard if you just play like a paranoid schizophrenic. Maybe I don't find that play style enjoyable and would rather spend my $15 per month doing something else.


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