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Lone Provider
Posted - 2010.07.07 21:23:00 - [751]
 


I too am disappointed that CCP nerfed/fixed LvL5s. I trained a long time and saved Isk to pilot and buy the right ship to solo them, the same as someone would train to be good at Mining, Industry, Trading...etc, and use the profit to fund gametime and PvP.

However I understand the reasons and actually now I'm more disappointed as I keep reading that EvE online is a PvP focused game, accepted and cool, so why was a whole expansion "wasted" on Planetary Interaction??

Maybe the blow of losing LvL5s wouldn't have been so bad if we got improvements to ships like Black Ops or new exciting modules and graphics/animations

Evil or Very Mad

Turdilious
Posted - 2010.07.11 04:27:00 - [752]
 

CCP are full of fail.

NI3LS
Posted - 2010.07.12 08:22:00 - [753]
 

Originally by: DEATHB1RD
EVE's main problem is the discrepancy of fittings between pve and pvp, that is so extreme, the pve fitted guy will always go down in flames unless the pvp fitted guy doesn't have a clue what he's doing.

That alone will be the reason to leave, when I find some other sci-fi game one day.



That is certainly the reason why L5 missions in low sec have an unacceptable risk/reward imbalance.


None of the people I know who do L5's would in their right mind fly their geared out Paladins, Rattlesnakes and other expensive pve junk into lowsec...

I'd laugh at them if they did... too juicy not to be probed and primaried and everybody knows it.


So, go back to chaining an infinity of miserably boring L4's, or best just find another game, cause CCP doesn't like you nor your marauders, which they specifically designed to suck in pvp with their slow lock times.


You're supposed to be cannon fodder and you refuse to do your job! shame on you! The economy needs u to loose your L4 earnings asap! Or else, you're just ruining the economy and the game for everyone else who's playing EVE correctly!

AngelFood
Posted - 2010.07.15 10:23:00 - [754]
 

I expect most lvl 5's are done in null sec deep in some alliance space perfectly safely with there unending supply of faction, faction fitted caps and god knows what else solo, group all the above with multiple scouts already working the area regardless.
So great as solo player to imagine how easy for some people it is to succeed.(sarcasm)

miragex1
Posted - 2010.07.19 17:17:00 - [755]
 

Edited by: miragex1 on 19/07/2010 17:17:35
Evil or Very Madwhy fix something that wasent broken at least i see it that way, i belong to a small corp a lot of new players so we were startin to make a few high sec lv5 missions so we all get that teamwork feelin now with lv5 missions in low sec only we cant go there and do them cause of the danger of the gate campers and all that so thanks a lot for takin the fun a way the only ones i see being happy by this is the older players that stay in low sec just huntin down other players cause now u have to make desicion to fit ur ship for pvp or fit it for the mission,if ur (fixin) the bugs go make those mission to give more isk like the lp they give and to have good bountys also maybe that way people mith whant to get interested more but for now thanks for takin them away from us noob players that cant go much to low sec Evil or Very Mad

Lemurianus
Posted - 2010.07.20 19:06:00 - [756]
 

Originally by: Lone Provider

I too am disappointed that CCP nerfed/fixed LvL5s. I trained a long time and saved Isk to pilot and buy the right ship to solo them, the same as someone would train to be good at Mining, Industry, Trading...etc, and use the profit to fund gametime and PvP.

However I understand the reasons and actually now I'm more disappointed as I keep reading that EvE online is a PvP focused game, accepted and cool, so why was a whole expansion "wasted" on Planetary Interaction??

Maybe the blow of losing LvL5s wouldn't have been so bad if we got improvements to ships like Black Ops or new exciting modules and graphics/animations

Evil or Very Mad


Sci-fi mmorpg dot com... lots of alternatives for me... And seriously considering them.

sedee
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.07.21 02:53:00 - [757]
 

Originally by: Kindred Wolf
Edited by: Kindred Wolf on 11/06/2010 15:40:05
Excellent - about time as this problem seriously messed up my income Razz

and to all the ppl using the highsec lv5 exploit i hope you all get permabanned for it Twisted Evil

Originally by: Agent 0017
Edited by: Agent 0017 on 11/06/2010 15:35:39
Its already difficult enough to do the missions, with them taking close to an hour.


Just another "I'm Elite and screw you noobs" attitude, just what CCP need to make the game more enjoyable for a larger player base.... selfish arrogant egocentric attitude.


Gwen Reinholds
Posted - 2010.07.22 00:53:00 - [758]
 

Edited by: Gwen Reinholds on 22/07/2010 00:53:02

Asuze
Posted - 2010.08.07 19:44:00 - [759]
 

Edited by: Asuze on 07/08/2010 19:46:40
One of the most stupid moves by CCP.

Instead of improving the PvE experience, fixing rewards and overall balancing out missions done in hi-sec and low-sec, so there actually would be any point to group up for those, they just destroy it all.

You WILL get scanned in low-sec.
No matter how much guards you bring with you, you WILL be blobbed with average 1v3 ratio.
Any missioner with at least half brain WILL NEVER fly his PvE ship worth 2+ billion ISK into low sec.

This just proves that people who do those changes don't actually have a slightest idea about the game they working on.
Whatever, there are more interesting MMOs and plain multiplayer games upcoming in 2011, made by people who at least have slightest idea how massive multiplayer games are done.

Tammarr
Posted - 2010.08.10 12:07:00 - [760]
 

It is called establishing a hold in lowsec, you want a resource, then fight for it. You want sov 0.0 space? Fight for it.
Or are you people that want no risk 5s in highsec saying: Long as we can get to a .0 station, we should be able to spawn the reward in closest highsec so we can play with it with no risk?

I love how lvl5 agent hubs are attracting corps and players that actually decide its worth fighting for and living there. Iam even more looking forward to the complete removal of the ability for 5s to spawn in highsec, since at this point in time several lvl5 systems and nextdoor lowsec systems are filling up with alts onl 23/7 to make the missionload system be more likely to spawn them in non lowsec because thoose systems 'have the most players on average and should be avoided for spawning missions in' clever use of game mechanics by highsec lvl5 missioner, but non the less foul. In truth, when its finaly fixed for good I will send the ccp office a piece of cheese to go with the forthcoming whines from people abusing the missiondistribution system this.

Celia Therone
Posted - 2010.08.12 23:28:00 - [761]
 

Originally by: Tammarr

I love how lvl5 agent hubs are attracting corps and players that actually decide its worth fighting for and living there.

Since the change the low sec level 5 agent system that I have a POS in has become a virtual ghost town, probably reducing it's average population by 60-70%.

Tammarr
Posted - 2010.08.13 14:47:00 - [762]
 

Good for the remaining 30-40% that had the balls to stay around then, wouldnt you agree their courage and spirit to stay and hold and gather intel for the area to protect their lvl5 running etc should give them better benefits then the ones who ran away to highsec for real when they couldnt get the benefits primaly in highsec and none of the risk? =)

Cudos to thoose who remained, they deserve respect.

Morbidibrom
Posted - 2010.10.09 14:46:00 - [763]
 

Edited by: Morbidibrom on 10/10/2010 07:29:07
I hate to the the voice of reason.... but here I go :P

What all the pvp'ers and pirates need to realize is that upsetting the "care bear" and mission runners is a bad thing. Yea they wine, and yea they don't want to pvp with you..... but if you don't allow them to do that they want, which is the lvl 5 missions in non 0.0 sec, then there will be less of them to kill.

You want to improve pvp, give them what they want. No one is going to take a pve ship into pvp 0.0 area to be gate-camped, probed, and blown up.....they don't like to pvp, (and most of them are solo mission runners). THEIR SHIPS ARE PVE EQUIPED!!...hello??
And no one is going to take a group of pve fitted of ships there either, especially due to the risk / reward factor.

The only ones that will do lvl 5 missions is corps who own the 0.0 space. More isk to the Mega corps is all that is happening...again... so all they are doing is supporting the corp isk farmers/ sellers (ccp being stupid again).

Less mission runners = less people to blow up.
You cant force them to go to 0.0 sec no matter what you do CCP, stop listening to simple minded deathbears. Anyone who's been there or reads forums knows they are all owned by large rich corps with uber fitted ships who will gank you the second they realize you are not of their corporation.
All you are doing is limiting lvl 5 mission to members of corps who own that space, the insane, and the stupid. Not the majority of eve pve'rs which is what lvl 5 mission should be for.

The solution....
you need to keep mission runners running missions...... pure and simple.

Why you ask??? . so they present the opportunity for you to blow the up..... duh.

Why did they force them into 0.0? when they could have been placed in the one place that is not owned my mega corps and is a nice place for pirates to roam .1-.4

And having people running level 5 mission in .1-.4 space can free up pressures on miners who never go there anymore to mine.
Win pirates / win mission runners / win miners / win CCP ( by not loosing huge numbers of players) .....
no mission runner is going to jump multiple low sec areas one after another after another and gate-camps to get to mega corp alliance space to do your ultra exclusive lvl 5 missions... ain't gonna happen.. just not going to happen.....wake up to reality.... these people do PVE...omg.

They need to be in a place you can access close to high sec which is the .4, .3, .2, .1 areas ONLY. Easier to access with less jumping out of high sec, easier for pirates to blow up since that where most of the action is anyways.

Also pirates like to gank while mission runners are fighting NPC's which to be fair is well......unfair. Engagement should activate some of the NPC's randomly to attack the pirate do is attacking their target(s). (this is such a no-brainer).... ( like a drooling pimply faced 12 yr old CCP developer right out grade school should be able to figure this one out)

<<<CONTINUED>>>Arrow

Morbidibrom
Posted - 2010.10.09 14:48:00 - [764]
 

Edited by: Morbidibrom on 10/10/2010 13:01:54
Edited by: Morbidibrom on 10/10/2010 07:26:55
Edited by: Morbidibrom on 09/10/2010 14:59:20
Edited by: Morbidibrom on 09/10/2010 14:53:42
Arrow<<<CONTINUED>>>


All the level 5 missions should be in low sec not null sec. People don't want to run into mega corps sitting in 0.0 and don't want to jump thru multiple jump-gates due to the risk each time of getting bubbled and ganked and upsetting those who own that 0.0 space......ITS NOT WORTH IT!!...PERIOD. Which again leads to only members of that corp which own that 0.0 space running the lvl5 missions. People will argue against this but we all know it to be true.

Also might be a good idea to have many more lvl 5 missions but they randomly activated each day so pirates aren't just sitting around known mission spots looking to gank mission runners all day long. This would be fair due to a higher variability of mission location.
Also lvl 5 mission should be given by all lvl 4 mission agents randomly after completing a lvl 4 mission to stop excessive ISK farming that people are griping about. As well as making it harder to track where proposed random lvl 5 mission areas are, as well as preventing pirates from camping lvl5 mission givers.

Again.... the so called winers and care bears need to be satisfied or this game or it will be incomplete without them. Killing off their best part of the game (lvl 5 missions) is really really really really stupid. It just amazes me how stupid it is because it degrades the game for both the casual mission runners AND the pirates that wish to blow them up. They will not step foot into 0.0. sorry ain't gonna happen.
And... if enough of them stop playing and this becomes a purely pvp game (which a lot of people seem to want) it realisticly could kill the game in the end. Due to lack of funds for CCP to run and develop it and lack of diversity of players.

Care bears (isk farmers) - The game is suppose to involve an aspect of pvp, although I agree moving it all to 0.0 is a REALLY BAD IDEA since you will never step foot in there.

Death bears - we need mission runners running around to blow them up, making MAJOR changes like this to their main aspect of the game lowers your chance of killing them, since they won't be around as much to kill.

CCP ( the worst offender) Use your problem solving skills and actually put forth some effort to accomplishing tasks with creative (non-simple minded) ideas. Ideas like .lets just put them all in 0.0 mega corp space .duarrrarrr... huhghughuhg... duhhh... drool.... (smoke some more pot) don't work.
And also put forth some.........hold on........... wait for it.....................WORK.

BTW do you actually read these post??? 26 pages and counting.....If you don't you are negligent, if you do then you are stupid, arrogant, and don't care about your customers.

Your holding the ball here not us, DO YOUR JOB.

3 yrs common, you uber-suckRolling Eyes

Deo Durrant
Posted - 2010.10.10 10:49:00 - [765]
 

I'm with him ^. Rolling Eyes

dAhAmbUrglA
Paxton Industries
Posted - 2010.10.20 10:28:00 - [766]
 

This "debate" has been started by a few epic carebears *****ing about something which was already always classified as a bug.
One of the main reasons which CCP has finally changed this is because of LOWSEC. Recently theres been a storm of blogs and forum discussions on how to "fix" lowsec, which is currently, on the whole, DEAD. Apart from a few faction warfare zones (which are still reasonably hard for the solo player to pvp in without getting blobbed), lowsec is pretty dead.
If one of you *****ing carebears actually stepped into a lowsec pirates shoes then you would see how boring, hard, unrewarding isk-wise and needing of a buff lowsec pirating is. One of the main reasons for so much highsec suicide ganking recently is because you will probably do better than you would in lowsec. If you want hard pve then go into a wormhole, set up a corp pos, and if that doesn't do it for you then run some l4s in a rifter....
And although I havent checked the exact stats on it, I've heard about how you can make an rr/unscannable t3 fleet to run l5s safely in anyway...

Larry C
Posted - 2010.10.20 17:22:00 - [767]
 

Edited by: Larry C on 20/10/2010 17:36:57
Edited by: Larry C on 20/10/2010 17:36:35
Originally by: dAhAmbUrglA
This "debate" has been started by a few epic carebears *****ing about something which was already always classified as a bug.
One of the main reasons which CCP has finally changed this is because of LOWSEC. Recently theres been a storm of blogs and forum discussions on how to "fix" lowsec, which is currently, on the whole, DEAD. Apart from a few faction warfare zones (which are still reasonably hard for the solo player to pvp in without getting blobbed), lowsec is pretty dead.
If one of you *****ing carebears actually stepped into a lowsec pirates shoes then you would see how boring, hard, unrewarding isk-wise and needing of a buff lowsec pirating is. One of the main reasons for so much highsec suicide ganking recently is because you will probably do better than you would in lowsec. If you want hard pve then go into a wormhole, set up a corp pos, and if that doesn't do it for you then run some l4s in a rifter....
And although I havent checked the exact stats on it, I've heard about how you can make an rr/unscannable t3 fleet to run l5s safely in anyway...


To think that making them all spawn in low sec will fix anything is interesting. I think it'll just mean far less people will run L5s, by a huge margin. A win right there for pirates, oh wait.. And many that do will run in unscannable ships, a win for pirates once again, oh wait..

Atm Eve, for me, is a chatroom with some L5s to do on the side whilst I do other stuff not Eve-related. Removing the "you can do something worthwhile in Eve whilst not really paying attention" aspect, and leaving the chatroom might spell the end of Eve for me. Not a bad thing, I'm trying to break the habit as it stands.

/me shrugs

HeliosGal
Caldari
Posted - 2010.10.21 00:34:00 - [768]
 

u need to control low sec areas to use the level 5s that said good changes and more level 4s to low sec plz

Rip Minner
Gallente
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
Posted - 2010.10.21 06:29:00 - [769]
 

Just reconforming that this was a crap ideal. ugh

Vonlin
NOMAD.
Warped Aggression
Posted - 2010.10.22 22:24:00 - [770]
 

Love all the carebear tears in this thread. With this fix people may start to better understand the risk vs reward concept.

Thank you CCP, I will be able to stop declining missions that try to send me to .5s (where the faction police shoot me).

Richard Christy
Posted - 2010.10.23 22:03:00 - [771]
 

Edited by: Richard Christy on 23/10/2010 22:05:05
.

Opt1mu5Pr1m3
Gallente
5ER3NITY INC
War and Pestilence
Posted - 2010.11.04 07:40:00 - [772]
 

I think alot of the people flaming at the carebears, just don't get it.

You mention risk vs reward. However, you don't get much more isk/bounty/loot running level 5's, than you do from running level 4's. The only big difference is the LP payout where you get around 70,000 LP's.

Now that the missions are now only in lowsec, you need a decend gang of 8-10 people to run them in case you get scanned down.

If you now split the rewards between the 10 people involved, you are left with no more than if you ran a level 4 solo. So you end up with the greater risk, but no extra reward - so whats the point in doing them?

I am not saying that they shouldnt be put in lowsec, its just that the rewards are not there to entice people to run them.

Opt1mu5Pr1m3

Tammarr
Posted - 2010.11.10 09:06:00 - [773]
 

Originally by: Opt1mu5Pr1m3
I think alot of the people flaming at the carebears, just don't get it.

You mention risk vs reward. However, you don't get much more isk/bounty/loot running level 5's, than you do from running level 4's. The only big difference is the LP payout where you get around 70,000 LP's.

Now that the missions are now only in lowsec, you need a decend gang of 8-10 people to run them in case you get scanned down.

If you now split the rewards between the 10 people involved, you are left with no more than if you ran a level 4 solo. So you end up with the greater risk, but no extra reward - so whats the point in doing them?

I am not saying that they shouldnt be put in lowsec, its just that the rewards are not there to entice people to run them.

Opt1mu5Pr1m3

Same rewards as lvl4s? Your either a poor excuse for a missionrunner or are understating hoping for: 'boohoo, its only same as 4s, please ccp give them back to me so I who know how to run them properly can harvest $$$ without any risk at all'
10 people to run a lvl5, stop smoking whatever your smoking, noone belives you. It takes 10 people to do wspace c6 sites. Are you saying regular npcs are close to sleepers? OH right, you need 10 people incase pirates come. Well, that'll make 10 wrecks then, you wont fight them, they'll come prepared for what you got. I'am going to give a piece of great advice once given me: Never PvP in your iskmaking ship.
You see pirates in intel? in local? non friendly scanprobes on scan? Align the crappers out/dockup Switch to pvp ships if your felling for a dance and tangle.

Now to go over more of the points once again raised:

risk vs reward, how difficult is it?
You cry about wanting to do 'teamwork' congratulations; incursion is coming. But!!!
5s are right there for you to start teamworking on; right now;always been; no nerf to teamwork has happened!
oh crap, this means you and buddy #1 & #2 or alt #1 #2 and #3 need to engage in diplomacy, working with the rest of your corp or heavens forbid pewpew to get a foot in and hold the area with the current locals sitting in your decided lvl5 agents system?
Heaven forbid you should be forced to gasp, report/read intel that scanneralt #1 of evil bastard corp #4 is around and that they got 3-4 guys on a gate.
God himself forbid you should have to work with others, as a team, as a corporation, as a cooalition, not a pair of guys/solo.
So whats this nerf to teamwork you cry about again and again?

Form that cooalition of missionrunners, heck start an alliance, draft up some good ideas, run some pewpew ops in frigates & cruisers just to get the hang of it; practice some fleet manouvering, shooting primary. Heaven forbid someone should have to set this up and manage it so that all of you work togheter to reap benefits in a now, safer enviroment.

The goals:
* Be able to run lvl5 missions out of X system
**Establish presence in the area
**Kick pirates that already live here out
**Dont fight them, blob them till they feel sad; we are 30 missionrunners, the pirates are 10 average
**Remember to dial whatever 0.0 alliance is in range if the pirates deploy caps, everyone loves to gank capitals.

* Establish intel channel(s)
**click channel interface, create new channel
**Add corps to allowed list
**type motd about reporting intel

* Ask around if you got 2-3 guys that can run freighters to closest highsec/jump freighter things with gear once or twice weekly, taking courier contracts to make logistics easy.

* If a roaming gang come around, all dockup for 10-15 minutes so they see nothing in space and get bored, note any potential scanner alts and add them to the red 'evil pirate scanner alts' list.

* Everyone should learn to keep their local window clearly visible.
**Do this by separating local from other chats and placing it visible.

Damn, that looks like teamwork, with lots of reward to be harvested.
Need more ideas for teamwork? this took 10 minutes...












Joss56
Gallente
Unleashed' Fury
Posted - 2010.11.12 17:18:00 - [774]
 

Edited by: Joss56 on 12/11/2010 18:02:11
Well, everyone seems to be right than the last one, it's quite hard to understand all those meanings about "carebears" like if they're waisting this game...

So my question for you guys low sec pro's, with all that you said with all that has ben made for you guys wy this game counts 350K players?
-mabe i'm wrong but i think that the best way to make someone do something he didn't wanted to do at the beguining is to interst him on doing it, not forcing him.

Think about it.

And if you have more missions on low than now well that only means some more to decline, this will never make mission runners take risks, just make some stop and do something else. And you can always keep crying about "proud" about "honnor" being in low, that wount make your corp grow win potential new teamates.

Concornage
Posted - 2010.11.13 05:21:00 - [775]
 

This whole topic saddens me Crying or Very sad

Woodman57
Posted - 2010.11.13 06:52:00 - [776]
 

What's the point in running any mish in low sec? My experience has been pirates show up and since I and my corp mates are fitted for pve, we leave the mish or get blown up. To take enough pilots along to defend against pirates means the mission is no longer worth doing due to having to split the loot with a greater number of people. I have no problem pvp'ing, or going into low sec, but doing either in a pve ship is suicide. I don't have the answer to fix it and I haven't read one here either.

Woodman57
Posted - 2010.11.13 07:24:00 - [777]
 

Now that I've thought about it, I do have a suggestion. Perhaps making it a lot more difficult to scan down ships would help. When a 2 week old player can probe me down to salvage my mish, it tells me that probing ships is probably too easy. I'm not bashing ninjas, I'm just saying that scanning a ship down is so easy, a noob can do it. I think making all probing/scanning more difficult would benefit everyone, introduce more errors, signal returns that are worthless and maybe the ability to jam probes. As it is now, scanning is so easy, you may as well make everyone visible to everyone else on the map.

Rip Minner
Gallente
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
Posted - 2010.11.13 08:18:00 - [778]
 

Hay can we get you guys to take another look at level 5's. After you release Incurstion. The power blocks will take over low sec to get there new Cap ships bpc's you placed there. There probly not going to care about doing level 5's. They did not bother with them before and there only going to go there now for the Cap bpc's. So there realy going to be about worthless in low sec after the next expantion.

Pluse I as a high sec carebear already know it's going to pay more to move to the next level 4 agent then bother with Incurstions. But if were talking about level 5's. Now it's worth my time and effort to remove the Incurstion.

It's just an ideal I thought I would just though out there.ugh

Jegen Earni
Posted - 2010.11.16 21:53:00 - [779]
 

Okay, I read through the first few pages of this, but stopped when pretty much all I was seeing was "wah, wah, wah, Level V's don't go to highsec anymore waaaah CCP is dumb, wah, wah, waaaaaaah."

Get over it. They were never supposed to go to highsec in the first place, which is why this is considered a fix. Grow a pair and get out to lowsec.

Starlight Twilight
Amarr
Posted - 2010.11.20 07:02:00 - [780]
 

Originally by: Jegen Earni
Okay, I read through the first few pages of this, but stopped when pretty much all I was seeing was "wah, wah, wah, Level V's don't go to highsec anymore waaaah CCP is dumb, wah, wah, waaaaaaah."

Get over it. They were never supposed to go to highsec in the first place, which is why this is considered a fix. Grow a pair and get out to lowsec.

you forgot to mention "get scanned down and blown up"


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