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Viral Effect
Caldari
BRAINDEAD Corp
Posted - 2010.06.12 05:17:00 - [301]
 

Another foolish CCP decision. Level 5ís should be brought into high sec. This type of mission should emphasise team work and be a rewarding task for a small group of players not moved into low sec where no-one really gives a damn.

Iím glad the issue of level 4 missions sending a disproportionate amount of destinations to low sec is being addressed.

Maeve Kell
Posted - 2010.06.12 05:20:00 - [302]
 

Edited by: Maeve Kell on 12/06/2010 05:20:36
Wow.. you change content that is used by nearly no one to content that is used by no one.

n1!

Now that income is nerfed you should have made them for hisec so that groups of players can do some pve together. there is absolutly nothing that a highskilled carebear group can do in high for some fun group activity except of mining that is no fun..

Edit: wow, said exactly the same as the guy above me <3

Tito Sajic
Secret Squirrel Readiness Group
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2010.06.12 05:22:00 - [303]
 

my name is Tito Sajic and I disapprove...not that anyone should give a flying procreation.

RentableMuffin
Posted - 2010.06.12 05:30:00 - [304]
 

Originally by: Merouk Baas
While you're at it, CCP, and differentiating between L 1-4 and L5, why don't you also change the NPC AI so they don't stay stuck on the initial target but switch to the pirates a little bit too, just to even out the playing field.



I'm shooting that guy, oh look new people, oh hey they are shooting that guy too, I want to shoot the new guy then!

hmm wouldn't put it past ccp to have logic like this in game.....

isougly
Posted - 2010.06.12 05:35:00 - [305]
 

There's more people than CCP thinks soloing these for steady income. Couldn't leave well enough alone for those that use Level 5's as a steady pvp isk source. Doing them in low sec with the kind of ships and tech II rigs needed for solo just isn't worth the risk/reward. How does taking away a legitimate income source create balance ingame. What a completely uninformed decision that will only see level 5's go the way of the dodo.

oneway89
Posted - 2010.06.12 05:37:00 - [306]
 

I almost just have to laugh when I think about it, once again making more content unusable or removed.

Even in highsec the risk reward is low, nevermind running in low sec and splitting lp with a gang.
The same number of ships running lv 4's ends up being far more profitable, even assuming you don't lose any ships.
The risk reward ratio isen't there, so lv 5 agents might aswell go the way of concord agents for all the attention there going to get.

CCP seriously has to stop rehashing already working aspects of the game, and start adding some new content.
All they managed to do is **** a bunch of ppl off, no one is happier for not being able to run a high sec lv 5.
More then a few that are already disenfranchised over this in particular, having invested in ships and equipments that are justifiably uselessly over priced for any other risk reward in the game.

This time next year there will be much greater competition for CCP in the sci-fi mmo market.
This isnít the time to be removing pve content or making it less accessible, its the time to be increasing accessibility and adding to what is already the rather bland and repetitive content that already exists.
With this and other alterations that detract from the pve aspects of eve, CCP not only ****es ppl off but is risking entirely destroying viability of pve based gameplay.
Pve based gameplay that tend to be more lucrative eventful among there competitors.

I for one cringe at the throught of high sec being populated by a handful of macro miners but apparently for all the pve content ccp turns out, they don't.

Raqs
Posted - 2010.06.12 05:38:00 - [307]
 

Edited by: Raqs on 12/06/2010 05:43:36
Edited by: Raqs on 12/06/2010 05:41:55
CCP has taken nerfing to an extreme.

1. Add 11% tax on NPC corps (targetted at mission runners)
2. Nerf mission loot
3. Remove level 5's entirely

What the hell good is a sandbox if you keep removing all the sand?

EDIT: If it ain't broke, don't fix it! Why not do some USEFUL ****, like, I dunno, fix the catalyst model? Hell, maybe even fix the overview so called targets work correctly.

Come on guys, you have far more important things to do than screw up a perfectly fine game mechanic.

EDIT 2: btw, I know level 5's haven't been removed completely... but, they might as well be now...

Souverainiste
Corsairs Inc.
Waterboard
Posted - 2010.06.12 05:44:00 - [308]
 

Are you guys ******ed? You know as good as I do CCP will read this thread (and ammend it, thats what they do best) but will NEVER reply OR change their minds, they never do.

So, C'est la vie, SUCK IT UP AND ENJOY!

and of course they messed up again.

OH and one last thing, will you stop ****ing teasing us with Incarna or whatever the **** you changed it to again? After 2-3 years, if you just cant do this cause its too much work, just tell us.

Del Narveux
Dukes of Hazard
Posted - 2010.06.12 05:44:00 - [309]
 

Wait what, people actually do lvl5 missions? This is news to me. Laughing

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.06.12 05:48:00 - [310]
 

The tears taste so good in this thread. More please! Razz

Bud Johnson
Broski Enterprises
Posted - 2010.06.12 06:08:00 - [311]
 

11 pages of delicious carebear tears.
CCP confirmed for master trolls.

ViolenTUK
Gallente
Demolition Men
Posted - 2010.06.12 06:26:00 - [312]
 

Originally by: Marlona Sky
The tears taste so good in this thread. More please! Razz


Whether you feel the care bears are crying or not it is a stupid decision by CCP.

Makoto Kimagawa
Posted - 2010.06.12 06:36:00 - [313]
 

Well This change has also made a change worse, Like being in high standing with the agent but being sent 22 jumps for a level 4 lowsec mission, or even worse being sent 3 jumps for a level 3 into null sec and a gate camp...

The level 1-4 should be high sec, they only mention level 5 being low/null sec
Also we have not seen guristas extravaganza or Angels Extravaganza Level 4s since the change...
Its broke... Fix it please.

Hayaishi
Gallente
Aperture Harmonics
Posted - 2010.06.12 06:38:00 - [314]
 

I <3 ccp, no joke, i live in wormhole space. If you want to PVE and make a ****ton of isk, get the **** out here. Stop being anti social ****s in empire and get out there. EVE is a risk game, you want to play no risk? go play somewhere else. EVE is set in space, space is deady as hell, and you expect to go about the place like its sunshine and lolly pops.

/thread.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2010.06.12 06:41:00 - [315]
 

Quote:

EDIT: If it ain't broke, don't fix it



It was, and it's been fixed.
CCP just takes 2-3 years per bug.


Quote:

Level 5ís should be brought into high sec. This type of mission should emphasise team work and be a rewarding task for a small group of players



Translated: "they should yield 500M per run to accomodate 10 players but in hi sec so I solo them in 3 ultra-pimped ships and buy my supercarrier within the next month".

Yuki Kulotsuki
Posted - 2010.06.12 06:42:00 - [316]
 

Good show CCP. Nice to see ya'll tying up loose ends. Minerals were getting doubly screwed from an artificial price floor and more of them coming from on-demand missions rather than good old fashioned mining. L5s were always meant to be low-sec content and it's good to see that getting fixed up. Hopefully the load balancing gets fixed. As much as it may hurt my bottom line I'd rather see people spread out than all bunched up together.

Reecei
Posted - 2010.06.12 06:56:00 - [317]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:

EDIT: If it ain't broke, don't fix it



It was, and it's been fixed.
CCP just takes 2-3 years per bug.


Quote:

Level 5ís should be brought into high sec. This type of mission should emphasise team work and be a rewarding task for a small group of players



Translated: "they should yield 500M per run to accomodate 10 players but in hi sec so I solo them in 3 ultra-pimped ships and buy my supercarrier within the next month".



But you can only use Supercarriers in low sec Razz

Rani Kena
Posted - 2010.06.12 07:05:00 - [318]
 

Good start in my opinion - now they just need to bump L5 missions so they're actually worth much more than L4.
CCP should also really consider moving all L4 missions to low-sec - instead of just sending a "disproportionate" amount of them there now.

Nata Asphyxia
Posted - 2010.06.12 07:08:00 - [319]
 

Dear carebears, can I haz ur stuff?

Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
draketrain
Posted - 2010.06.12 07:41:00 - [320]
 

why would anyone done level 5's or go to low sec anyway?

silly carebears acting like any pirate would care if they would bring their t1 fitted insured ravens in low sec. they are not even worth shooting for anything else than cheap killmail.

low sec as a place to do both pvp or pve is more "dangerous" than hi sec or 0.0 so it does not have logical entry level for inexperienced people. Just think about gate guns: lets put guns at gates which instapop petty frigates with one shot, it's great for newbies!

MrRobot
Amarr
Ship Trading Company
United Pod Service
Posted - 2010.06.12 07:46:00 - [321]
 

Originally by: Nata Asphyxia
Dear carebears, can I haz ur stuff?

their stuff won't help you... how's originality for a start?

Leandro Salazar
Quam Singulari
Posted - 2010.06.12 07:54:00 - [322]
 

Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 12/06/2010 08:00:23
The only negative side effect of this I can see is that with a higher percentage of L5s being done the right way rather than the wrong way, the rewards will go down as average completion times will be cut in half or more.
Then again, if all the hardcore carebears now emoragequit like they promise, the overall influx of LP might be reduced and thus LP value actually might go up a bit...

Oh and all the clueless people that think lowsewc L5s are worthless and not being done might want to do a reality check. Granted there is a small risk (oh noes!) but if you pay attention it is minimal and the rewards thus far beat any other activity short of trading by a significant margin. Of course that might change now, see above.

Bondeknold
Posted - 2010.06.12 08:30:00 - [323]
 

Im always amazed when i hear just how Old eve players are in general and Then Reading all these unmature crying hate mails ooh no now i cant sit in High sec making tons of isk solo in a game with 1.server with the purpose of people playing together (mmo) . You guys needs to grow up its just. A game no reason to cry or dare to cancel 90 accounts .

Taoth Taonas
Posted - 2010.06.12 08:33:00 - [324]
 

I am not very savvy when it comes to fitting ships properly but this enforced ''fix'' brings an issue in my mind,correct me if i am wrong.Since now L5 is only available in low sec [agents were always in low ,but the missions were in high],how are the players supposed to fit their ships,for pvp or pve ,because camping at the gates in systems were agents give u missions may be the new best thing for pirates.It seems to me that this is a one way ''fix'' that only pvp-ers can benefit from.Since to my knowledge ,and i may be wrong,a pve fitted ship is more or less worthless in pvp how are the carebears gonna tackle this issue.And since the mission runner players fit their ships whit expensive mods i dont see any reason why the pirate players wont be taking advantage by this new "bug fix".Forcing players into pvp areas using this concept reveals to me the incapacity of CCP in making low sec alluring other than just twisting your arms into it.To bad i was hoping for more from their part.I would like to start doing pvp and is on my to do list but in my own time and place , fitting the ship properly for it and not just because i have no choice.Maybe in the future will see L4 missions in low sec just like in the old days and then mining will become the best thing for carebears and we will be just were we start it.

Luminality
Caldari
Esco Trade
Posted - 2010.06.12 08:37:00 - [325]
 

Originally by: Genji Ancient
Great use of programming time. Definitely want to priortize this fix before something important.

I'm guessing the logic will be just as absurd as the character, corp, alliance name check.

Also, your reference to the patch notes does not state anything with your 'Fix'. The english words would be: "Level 5 agents no longer send you to high sec". Your obscure reference is an excuse for someone at CCP to further their agenda.

Better yet, was this one of the items the CSMs mentinoed that is crucial the the enjoyment of the game which should be addressed?

This was never broken and never an exploit. Oh well, like every other activity you get into in game, you have to leave it sooner or later due to some dumb decision on CCP's part.


quoted for truth! ugh

Hank de'Hammer
Posted - 2010.06.12 08:39:00 - [326]
 

Edited by: Hank de''Hammer on 12/06/2010 08:53:42
Originally by: RentableMuffin
Originally by: Merouk Baas
While you're at it, CCP, and differentiating between L 1-4 and L5, why don't you also change the NPC AI so they don't stay stuck on the initial target but switch to the pirates a little bit too, just to even out the playing field.



I'm shooting that guy, oh look new people, oh hey they are shooting that guy too, I want to shoot the new guy then!

hmm wouldn't put it past ccp to have logic like this in game.....


You are describing the Sleeper AI. When Wormholes were first introduced and CCP used the enhanced AI for Sleeper, there was talk of using the AI also for Null Sec rats, especially officers. Maybe would be better to use the Sleeper AI for the Level 5 rats.

Another idea is to move all Level 5 missions into Deadspace which can't be scanned.

In the last CSM election, many candidates ran on the platform of moving Level 5 missions into Low / Null Sec. The few candidates that did not support this idea were not elected. Maybe voting does mean things to CCP.

EDIT:
EVE is a sand box game where a player can choose their play style. Why do PvP players desire to make Carebears / Mission Runners play their way? I do not see Carebears / Mission Runners criticizing the play styles of PvP players, with the possible exception of griefers (but that is another story). CCP should be seeking ways to increase the number of play styles (like Exploration and PI), not decrease it.

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2010.06.12 08:46:00 - [327]
 

Edited by: Kerfira on 12/06/2010 08:47:35
Now, I notice many of the whiners talking about challenge and teamwork and saying reward is not an issue... Let's examine that a bit...

If the objective is that several people should work together and have a challenge, there's absolutely no reason why they can't run L4's in T1 cruisers!
Hell, for a real challenge they can run them in T1 frigates!
Another alternate is of.c. to run L5's on Sisi... as you're doing it for the challenge, not the ISK...

However, the underlying argument with ALL the L5 whines is exactly this:
"Wah! Don't take our ISK-printers away!"

You try to hide it by mentioning the words 'challenge' and 'teamwork' a few times, completely ignoring that there are already plenty of ways to provide that.
Some of you hide it slightly better than others, but it is blatantly obvious that you're just mentioning challenge and teamwork to not sound like you just want your ISK-printer back. However, you're not even close to hiding it well.

L5's need to go! They're simply way too profitable risk/reward-wise to be able to be run in high-sec.

Headerman
Minmatar
Quovis
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2010.06.12 08:48:00 - [328]
 

Hmm...

Why don't CCP keep L5's in low and high sec, but create L6 agents in Null sec, that only pay marginally more than L5's?

Ya still have to make it a group effort in either case.

Everyone wins.

Rip Minner
Gallente
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
Posted - 2010.06.12 08:54:00 - [329]
 

Edited by: Rip Minner on 12/06/2010 08:55:19
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
CCP Molock and GM Nythanos provide an update on Level 5 missions and EVE Online: Tyrannis.

Greetings,

When level 5 missions were first introduced back in 2007, it was intended that these missions take place only in High- and low-systems. But we changed the way missions were scaned down in this same patch and low sec emptyed out. So we in high speed back steped and moved the level 5 agents we placed in high sec one system over in low sec. But we never got around to hunting down this npc coding to stop them from giving the high sec missions in the high sec systems we first installed them in. Till Now!



There let me fix that for you CCP as I was here doing missions when there were only level 2's and did 3's and 4s and 5s as you placed them in. It's down right insutling to the older players when you open face lie.

This was a bad patch. Just own it as its your game man dont go and lie about it. Just like it was a bad ideal to change the scaning rules for low sec missions. Your never going to bring low sec back to were it was before till you change the low sec mission scaning system back to what it was.

You can place 100% of missions from 1-5 there and it will not matter. Well not true we can run pvp ships on 1-3's But will not change the fact that people that dont want to pvp will not no matter what you plac ein low sec and how little you place in high sec.

If its about the isk only High sec Trading is the highest Inc in the hole game and you never have to leave a station. So realy level 5's dont compare to that any ways.

Zelea Codreanu
Posted - 2010.06.12 08:57:00 - [330]
 

How about more lvl 5 agents in 0.0 npc space?


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