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CCP Zymurgist


Gallente
C C P
Posted - 2010.06.11 14:36:00 - [1]
 

CCP Molock and GM Nythanos provide an update on Level 5 missions and EVE Online: Tyrannis.

Greetings,

When level 5 missions were first introduced back in 2007, it was intended that these missions take place only in low- and null-sec systems. Because of a longstanding bug in our mission distribution system, however, some agents would occasionally offer these missions in high-security systems instead of low-sec or 0.0 only. This issue was corrected in Tyrannis as part of a larger fix to distribution, as listed in the patch notes here: http://www.eveonline.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?patchlogID=205#fixes — “The load balancing mechanism for missions in Dominion incorrectly prioritized high-load systems over low-load systems when selecting the location for mission objectives. Agents now prefer to send players to less loaded systems.”

However, while that particular distribution bug was fixed, agents may still occasionally send you to a 0.5 system for a level 5 mission. This quirk is being looked into; once it has been resolved, level 5 missions always occur in low- or null-sec systems.

Finally, we are aware of the problems players are currently facing with level 1-4 mission distribution as a result of the aforementioned load balancing fix. While all missions are intended to have a chance of occurring in a nearby low-/null-security system, we are aware of the disproportionate rate at which this is now occurring. The matter is being examined. This is a separate issue from that noted above, and it has no bearing on the intended low-/null-sec system restriction of level 5 missions.

CCP Molock and GM Nythanos

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.06.11 15:21:00 - [2]
 

Well I guess a lot of people will be unhappy by this "fix".

Jalas
Posted - 2010.06.11 15:24:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Well I guess a lot of people will be unhappy by this "fix".


People would have to actually do level five missions, first, for anybody to care.

Ehranavaar
Gallente
Posted - 2010.06.11 15:26:00 - [4]
 

definitely not one of the fixes i appreciate. as a mission runner i used to enjoy the odd level 5 despite the fact it was no more remunerative than 4's were given i did them with a single ship. perhaps the next quarterly report can illustrate just how much level 5's drop off once they are low sec only. i know i certainly won't be doing any more as i'm suicide averse. thank you ccp for limiting what the bulk of your players can do in favour of the minority.

Margaret Edmondson
Posted - 2010.06.11 15:29:00 - [5]
 

Argh, why would you change this. My T2 purger rigged ishtar is kind of useless now.

Genji Ancient
Posted - 2010.06.11 15:31:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Genji Ancient on 11/06/2010 15:43:01
Great use of programming time. Definitely want to priortize this fix before something important.

I'm guessing the logic will be just as absurd as the character, corp, alliance name check.

Also, your reference to the patch notes does not state anything with your 'Fix'. The english words would be: "Level 5 agents no longer send you to high sec". Your obscure reference is an excuse for someone at CCP to further their agenda.

Better yet, was this one of the items the CSMs mentinoed that is crucial the the enjoyment of the game which should be addressed?

This was never broken and never an exploit. Oh well, like every other activity you get into in game, you have to leave it sooner or later due to some dumb decision on CCP's part.

Agent 0017
Posted - 2010.06.11 15:35:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Agent 0017 on 11/06/2010 15:35:39
This has to be the most ******ed move CCP has done yet. Its already difficult enough to do the missions, with them taking close to an hour. Now you want to make it so players will get ganked while doing the mission.

You are going to make level 5 missions obsolete and a thing of the past. A proper move would be to move more of the missions to high sec.

Kindred Wolf
Posted - 2010.06.11 15:36:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Kindred Wolf on 11/06/2010 15:40:05
Excellent - about time as this problem seriously messed up my income Razz

and to all the ppl using the highsec lv5 exploit i hope you all get permabanned for it Twisted Evil

Originally by: Agent 0017
Edited by: Agent 0017 on 11/06/2010 15:35:39
Its already difficult enough to do the missions, with them taking close to an hour.


Seriously WTF ??? almost all the lv5s i run are complete within 20mins - that is if you know what your doing (which you don't apparently).

Gunnanmon
Gallente
PURPLE.
Posted - 2010.06.11 15:39:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Ehranavaar
...perhaps the next quarterly report can illustrate just how much level 5's drop off once they are low sec only. ..


That'll happen (with any amount of accuracy/honesty)

Rolling Eyes

Mr M
Posted - 2010.06.11 15:45:00 - [10]
 

Get some friends to fend off the evil piwates. Level 5 missions has always been supposed to be a group effort.

DuKackBoon
Posted - 2010.06.11 15:45:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Agent 0017
Edited by: Agent 0017 on 11/06/2010 15:35:39
This has to be the most ******ed move CCP has done yet.


No, removing ghost-training was more ******ed, as it was something they were advertising with :P

Miyamoto Isoruku
Caldari
Original Sin.
Posted - 2010.06.11 15:48:00 - [12]
 

ITT: Carebears whining about having to take a slight risk to do L5s.

Forum Anonymity
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.06.11 15:49:00 - [13]
 

You guys whine line a bunch of old ladies who have just lost their favourite set of stockings. My goodness - grow a pair.

I was going to go into detail of why all your tears are unnecessary, but if you didn't get that from the first post, I doubt you would get it from anything I said, so I will just return to attending to my master's villa.

Cool

Actumarius
Caldari
No Compromise
Posted - 2010.06.11 15:51:00 - [14]
 

There's a risk to doing lowsec level 5s?

When?

:-)

Shaitan Wyndmere
Posted - 2010.06.11 15:54:00 - [15]
 

A "bug" that has been present in a game for three year, plus 1000s of individuals that use such a bug and are not warned, banned or otherwise told not to "exploit" such bug, typically raises such a "bug" to a "feature."

Quite often, it may not have been the intended effect, but left long enough, such that people grow accustomed to its effect and use, one should not change such behavior without great thought.

Whilst there always seems to be great animosity between "carebears" and "deathbears", it doesn't seem wise to throw fuel on the fire, and directly remove a "feature" for those players who only play in Empire and compose 90% or more of the player base.

Not that any comments I have every read have ever cause CCP to change their minds on anything . . .

In the end, it appers that forcing folks in Low-Sec is primarily to provide "Pirate" players with more targets . . .

LeadFarmer
Posted - 2010.06.11 15:57:00 - [16]
 

Well, i guess i'm a uber glitcher now, been running lvl 5's for atleast 6 months i'd say. i'm sorry for glitching can the ccp community ever forgive me?

Sutskop
PILSGESCHWADER
Monkey Circus
Posted - 2010.06.11 15:57:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Sutskop on 11/06/2010 15:58:07
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist

When level 5 missions were first introduced back in 2007, it was intended that these missions take place only in low- and null-sec systems. Because of a longstanding bug in our mission distribution system, however, some agents would occasionally offer these missions in high-security systems instead of low-sec or 0.0 only. This issue was corrected in Tyrannis as part of a larger fix to distribution, as listed in the patch notes here: http://www.eveonline.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?patchlogID=205#fixes — “The load balancing mechanism for missions in Dominion incorrectly prioritized high-load systems over low-load systems when selecting the location for mission objectives. Agents now prefer to send players to less loaded systems.”
[...] This is a separate issue from that noted above, and it has no bearing on the intended low-/null-sec system restriction of level 5 missions.



fixed it for you

Kinroi Alari
Gallente
Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2010.06.11 15:58:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Kinroi Alari on 11/06/2010 15:59:16
I tried a few level 5s in high sec, but then my logistics backup couldn't make it for a week and I failed a mission that I wasn't ready to solo. Recently I'd considered boosting my Fed Navy rep back up again to try a few more -- but with this change I won't. :D

I like null sec and low sec. But even though I've had fun with low level missions out in Syndicate, I'm not gonna focus on running higher level missions in it. Why use PVE ships outside high sec? If I am truly jonesing for extra-Empire PVE that badly, I'll just run anomalies in Providence on a ship that *does* mount a scram or disuptor!

I'm not criticizing those who hunt low sec mission runners or those who run low sec missions -- I'm merely noting that I'm not going to bother to pursue these missions as I'd rather fit for PVP if I am going to face PVP. ^_^

Victoria Ehr
Lonetrek Salvage and Scrap
Posted - 2010.06.11 16:03:00 - [19]
 

this is really an unfair thing to do after many players such as myself were basing their highsec lifestyle off doing l5's lowsec and 0.0 you are being scanned down constantly and its bad enough these missions are already difficult.. i dont see the problem with the highsec l5's personally

gavin gor
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.06.11 16:07:00 - [20]
 

the patch effected all lvls of missions so new players could and did find low sec missions and drop off missions and the pirates loved em
i know 2 people who have stopped playing the game both of them are on there umpteenth ship lost to low sec ganks its not fun to have no chance in any game you loose interest very fast and take your money elsewhere
thank you ccp for looking listening and doing some think

rofflesausage
Posted - 2010.06.11 16:11:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: rofflesausage on 11/06/2010 16:13:53
No issues with the change, but seriously, put a LOT more L5 mission agents in low sec.

More people head there to make their fortune (if you want to call it that), pirates are happy due to more people, and distribution of players in lowesec goes up.

A few other issues:
*The rewards given out for faction missions are not worth it. In almost no situation does it make sense to kill another faction in a L5 and take the hit as it's *huge*. Grinding back faction standing is disproportionately difficult compared to say security status, which is surprisingly easy.

*Many times L5 agents offer the same mission after rejecting one. I remember this being classed as a bug a while back and being fixed (IIRC), but it still happens for L5s occasionally.

*4 hours is too long for the mission rejection period, given how long these take (coupled with only a few L5 agents per corp, at best)

Edit - actually, I don't mind L5's in highsec, provided they have a nerfed LP + rewards. The bounties + drops should be enough considering its risk free in terms of being ganked.

Nikolae Varius
Amarr
Mongrel Squad
Posted - 2010.06.11 16:15:00 - [22]
 

considering it takes a minimum of 2 players to effectively complete a lvl 5 mission I believe the appearance in high sec is justified adn when you compute factors of capital and time and standing loss it seems reasonable. Of course ccp always has their little experiments with the economy, ill be checking out startrek online in the mean time.


Mealtrom
Posted - 2010.06.11 16:21:00 - [23]
 

I gotta say this seems like a silly and counterproductive use of time to me, albeit one that I don't care a lot about. When you consider that level 5s:

  • Take lots of people to run quickly and safely.

  • Take comparably longer than level 4s for profit earned.

  • Tend to murder your standings.

  • Dont generate storylines (to my knowledge).

  • Were already hard to pull in highsec.


... it just seems silly to raise the degree of risk. Most people take level 5s because they enjoy the diversity of missions, the new stories, and the added PVE challenge. Not for the thrill of risking their uber passive tanked rattlesnake in lowsec. The ones in it for the money tend to stick to speed grinding level 4s. The ones wanting PVP lite are in faction warfare or piracy. What purpose does this serve. What player gains enjoyment from it? There are much less arbitrary, and more effective, ways to generate traffic to lowsec. All you're doing is making a slightly worthless feature an incredibly worthless feature.

Morris Kane
Posted - 2010.06.11 16:27:00 - [24]
 

If this so called "fix" goes though and you cannot do any lv5's in high sec.. i will be canceling my 4 accounts.
the challenge of doing them and often doing them with friends is one of the main appealing aspects for me in this game.

If you end up taking it away.. why would i still pay to play?
Don;t nerf the cream of high sec missioning.. it will hurt a very large part of the player base.

Illectroculus Defined
No Bull Ships
Posted - 2010.06.11 16:27:00 - [25]
 

Glad to hear CCP taking the 'Fix Bugs' threads to heart, and moreover doing the 'Difficult and Unpopular' ones first. I believe Devs have stated on many occasions that Hi-Sec level 5s were considered bugs, so those who were regularly running them should be thankful for the opportunity, and be sad that it's now denied. But don't be ragequitting because your favourite borderline exploit has been removed from the game.

Now CCP there are many more 'bugs' that need addressing, I'd encourage your developers to continue on this path and make the necessary changes to improve the game, whether they **** players off or not.

Pegasus IX
Posted - 2010.06.11 16:34:00 - [26]
 

fix FAIL

Losec / null lvl 5s are suicide. With rewards only marginally better than L4 missions, it would be pointless to run these "with protection".

I would know too - my corp was very involved in L5 missioning, and more often than not we got popped as soon as we dared try one in losec.

One more thing to add... since I no longer need to run my own fleet, there is one account canceled for sure, and maybe my other two will follow as I am loosing interest very fast.Mad

Gunnanmon
Gallente
PURPLE.
Posted - 2010.06.11 16:34:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Mealtrom
  • Dont generate storylines (to my knowledge).



  • They do.

    Tarasina
    Posted - 2010.06.11 16:34:00 - [28]
     

    Originally by: Mr M
    Get some friends to fend off the evil piwates. Level 5 missions has always been supposed to be a group effort.


    Pirates have friends too, even though it sounds unbelievable.

    MindRanger
    Gallente
    FISKL GUARDS
    Posted - 2010.06.11 16:37:00 - [29]
     

    I'm about 80% of my time in nullsec pew-pewíng, ratting, etc. The rest of the time I'm in highsec, carebearing for what its worth.

    I did a few of those Level 5's in highsec (usually alone), and I found it a very welcome challenge, a diversion, from the regular Level 4's. I don't find them very rewarding, not at all. If I want to make money, I'll stay in nullsec or plow through Level 4's while making dinner. I did those Level 5's more because they are the best carebear challenge you can get in highsec.

    What I don't understand is why those Level 5's have to be in lowsec? Makes no sense to me at this point. 3 years ago, yes, the game was different. Now we have more expensive toys, more DPS, more Tank, a more mature and experienced player base. The game has moved on. Keep those Level 5's in empire highsec, and make some new Level 6's for lowsec. Thats my $0.02

    Cheers


    djadjahama
    Posted - 2010.06.11 16:40:00 - [30]
     

    "...particular distribution bug was fixed...."

    whaooooosssh, for fatsacks it takes only 3 years to fix it,,,, must be kinda importat bug


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