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Durin Sarga
Posted - 2010.06.09 15:45:00 - [1]
 

Hey All,

Don't know how useful this is to you. But from what I've seen so far.. ALL P1 products export for a fee of 0.76 ISK per UNIT of item, not m^3 based as originally thought and reported on the eve-ivy guide.

P2 appear to export for a fee of 9.0 ISK per UNIT of item as well.

Import tax on P1 items appears to be half the export (0.38 ISK per UNIT of item).

I don't have my second colony set up yet, so I haven't tried to import P2, import/export P3 or higher.

Just an fyi.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.06.09 15:53:00 - [2]
 

Coincidentally, every P1 has a 0.38 m^3 volume, so that's 2 ISK/m^3 export and 1 ISK/m^3 import tax.
Are you sure P2 export fees are 9 ISK per unit, not 3 ISK per unit ?
Because that would make perfect sense since P2s have a 1.5 m^3 volume.

Durin Sarga
Posted - 2010.06.09 16:01:00 - [3]
 

Yeah, alliance mate did 1 unit of enriched uranium and got an export tax of 9 ISK

Korenti Rels
Posted - 2010.06.09 17:20:00 - [4]
 

Export taxes from spaceport last time I checked:

R0 0.10
P1 0.76
P2 9.00
P3 600.00
P4 50,000.00

all values are "per item".

Definitively not volume based.

iP0D
Posted - 2010.06.09 17:37:00 - [5]
 

It's by design. PI is not intended as an easy & cheap reservoir on the side for basic resources, so others can get to work with it. You are expected to go the extra mile, and complete the process towards tier 2 and higher product states. Look at the volumes of for example tier 1 items coming out of harvestors, and the output after the first factory run, etcetera.

It's not a get rich thing, unless massive amounts of people throw in the towel. It's an afk income thing on the side which because of the shorter cycles keeps people subscribed, unlike for example datacores.

Durin Sarga
Posted - 2010.06.09 17:38:00 - [6]
 

Sweet. Thanks. Do you have the import tax information at all?

Korenti Rels
Posted - 2010.06.09 18:16:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Durin Sarga
Sweet. Thanks. Do you have the import tax information at all?
1/2 the export.

Illectroculus Defined
No Bull Ships
Posted - 2010.06.09 18:53:00 - [8]
 

Just tried to launch some Robotics - 9 units, 56m^3 - 8,100 isk costs - so that's 900 per unit, 50% more than using a spaceport. So, if you want to use those unscannable launch cans to evade trouble in low-sec it looks like it's going to cost you.

Toldain
Gallente
Skyforger
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2010.06.09 19:16:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: iP0D
It's by design. PI is not intended as an easy & cheap reservoir on the side for basic resources, so others can get to work with it. You are expected to go the extra mile, and complete the process towards tier 2 and higher product states. Look at the volumes of for example tier 1 items coming out of harvestors, and the output after the first factory run, etcetera.




I would say this a little differently. It's designed to give you interesting tradeoffs. You are expected to follow economic incentives. There's one incentive for putting P2 production in place, namely a net 25% reduction in export fees. How important are those to you compared to the level of investment?

There are lots of P2 goods that can't be made on one planet type. Will nobody make these because of extra export cost, or extra messing around?

I think it's going to be very hard for a single character to keep a high-tech facility running 24/7 at the end of a vertical chain. In other words, they are going to have to buy from the market.

Going vertical, especially at first, is fun, and interesting. But if many players go vertical, then the P1 goods will be scarce on the market, and there will perhaps be more money to be made simply devoting all your resources and efforts to making the most-scarce P1 goods and selling them.

Or not. We'll just have to watch and see.

Durin Sarga
Posted - 2010.06.09 19:27:00 - [10]
 

Hey I'm sorta with you Toldain. There is a reason corporate structure involves the separation of tasks. By making a station a 'jack-of-all-trades', you become a 'master-of-nothing'. Hence why I think the interplanetary consolidation is needed. 4 'unique' resources, and the other ones can be covered by a variety of planets. That means for a single person to have access to all base resources they need a minimum 4 planets just for mining.

Throw in the fact that highest level production can only happen on barren/temperate and we can quickly see that an 'ideal' model might look something like... mining planets funneling P1 or P2 materials to a production barren/temperate planet for Advanced Production.

Since each character is only allowed one command center per planet, a single character player is gonna have a wild time, lol.

skye orionis
Posted - 2010.06.09 19:40:00 - [11]
 

However it takes very little training time for a player to get his two 'free' alts working in PI, disturbingly easy in fact....

Durin Sarga
Posted - 2010.06.09 20:03:00 - [12]
 

Excellent point. *rummage* *rummage* Where are those 'free' alts? lol

electrostatus
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2010.06.09 21:38:00 - [13]
 

This is how I figure it is:

BEHOLD

The tax is the volume of the unit times the set tax number, which is on the right. I studied the taxes on various products to figure this out. I broke the tax rate into two scale factors to try to find out this 1, 2, 3 scale in the taxes.

On the left is the tax on one unit of the product. To figure out your tax, it is the number of units times their volume times their tax.

Elanae Thron
Gallente
Posted - 2010.06.16 02:04:00 - [14]
 

Does anyone know if any of the trade skills useful in reducing this tax?

Also, the way I've been running PI is this:

Definitely use your alts. It takes about 6 days to get each up and running with 5 Advanced command centers each (Command Center Upgrades=IV and Interplanetary Consolidation=IV).

Run multiple accounts, and you double that amount. A player running 3 accounts can colonize 45 planets.

And to keep from having to deal with P1, P2 and P3 taxes, I load most planets up with extractors only, grabbing P0 materials, then create "processing planets" that have no extractors whatsoever, but can process from P1 through P4. Then, you only have to export the P4 items.

Yes, I have to actually leave my station and grab the materials, and then drop them off, but it keeps me logging in, and interested in the game.

By loading up the spaceports with enough P0 materials, and then using some creative routing, you can let a processing planet run unattended for long periods of time.

Also, remember to keep your links short. Take advantage of routing. Links cost CPU & powergrid!

Boogie Bobby
Posted - 2010.06.16 05:33:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Boogie Bobby on 16/06/2010 05:46:31
Wouldn't exporting massive amounts of P0/P1 to a production planet eat your profits vice pushing it to P3 and exporting to make P4 on a Barren?

Edit: I've been doing it all wrong. If I got the numbers right it's substantially cheaper to make P1 and export?

Jagga Spikes
Minmatar
Spikes Chop Shop
Posted - 2010.06.16 08:25:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Boogie Bobby
Edited by: Boogie Bobby on 16/06/2010 05:46:31
Wouldn't exporting massive amounts of P0/P1 to a production planet eat your profits vice pushing it to P3 and exporting to make P4 on a Barren?

Edit: I've been doing it all wrong. If I got the numbers right it's substantially cheaper to make P1 and export?


way i see it...
for extraction planets: extract P0, process to P1/P2, export
for process planets: import P1/P2, process to P3/P4, export

RaTTuS
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2010.06.16 09:42:00 - [17]
 

exporting P0 is pffft
convert it to P1 then export

H3llHound
Nex Exercitus
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.06.16 10:24:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Illectroculus Defined
Just tried to launch some Robotics - 9 units, 56m^3 - 8,100 isk costs - so that's 900 per unit, 50% more than using a spaceport. So, if you want to use those unscannable launch cans to evade trouble in low-sec it looks like it's going to cost you.


I got the same amount of tax but I was using a spaceport. This tax really cuts away ones profitMad

Fubar
Posted - 2010.06.16 10:44:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Fubar on 16/06/2010 10:49:44
The import and export multipliers for each planetary product are located in the dgmTypeAttributes table.

(Launch pad/cc fee) * volume * multiplier

+--------+------------------------------------+------------------+------------------+
| typeID | typeName | ExportMultiplier | ImportMultiplier |
+--------+------------------------------------+------------------+------------------+
| 2268 | Aqueous Liquids | 5 | 5 |
| 2305 | Autotrophs | 5 | 5 |
| 2267 | Base Metals | 5 | 5 |
| 2329 | Biocells | 3 | 3 |
| 2358 | Biotech Research Reports | 50 | 50 |
| 2867 | Broadcast Node | 250 | 250 |
| 2375 | Broken Broadcast Node | 250 | 250 |
| 2376 | Broken Integrity Response Drones | 250 | 250 |
| 2371 | Broken Nano-Factory | 250 | 250 |
| 2368 | Broken Organic Mortar Applicators | 250 | 250 |
| 2374 | Broken Recursive Computing Module | 250 | 250 |
| 2373 | Broken Self-Harmonizing Power Core | 250 | 250 |
| 2369 | Broken Sterile Conduits | 250 | 250 |
| 2377 | Broken Wetware Mainframe | 250 | 250 |
| 2345 | Camera Drones | 50 | 50 |
| 2288 | Carbon Compounds | 5 | 5 |
| 2287 | Complex Organisms | 5 | 5 |
| 2344 | Condensates | 50 | 50 |
| 3828 | Construction Blocks | 3 | 3 |
| 9836 | Consumer Electronics | 3 | 3 |
| 9832 | Coolant | 3 | 3 |
| 2367 | Cryoprotectant Solution | 50 | 50 |
| 17392 | Data Chips | 50 | 50 |
| 44 | Enriched Uranium | 3 | 3 |
| 2307 | Felsic Magma | 5 | 5 |
| 3693 | Fertilizer | 3 | 3 |
| 2348 | Gel-Matrix Biopaste | 50 | 50 |
| 15317 | Genetically Enhanced Livestock | 3 | 3 |
| 9834 | Guidance Systems | 50 | 50 |
| 2366 | Hazmat Detection Systems | 50 | 50 |
| 2272 | Heavy Metals | 5 | 5 |
| 2361 | Hermetic Membranes | 50 | 50 |
| 17898 | High-Tech Transmitters | 50 | 50 |
| 2360 | Industrial Explosives | 50 | 50 |
| 2868 | Integrity Response Drones | 250 | 250 |
| 2309 | Ionic Solutions | 5 | 5 |
| 3725 | Livestock | 3 | 3 |


Fubar
Posted - 2010.06.16 10:50:00 - [20]
 

|   3689 | Mechanical Parts                   |                3 |                3 |
| 2073 | Micro Organisms | 5 | 5 |
| 2327 | Microfiber Shielding | 3 | 3 |
| 9842 | Miniature Electronics | 3 | 3 |
| 2463 | Nanites | 3 | 3 |
| 2869 | Nano-Factory | 250 | 250 |
| 2354 | Neocoms | 50 | 50 |
| 2310 | Noble Gas | 5 | 5 |
| 2270 | Noble Metals | 5 | 5 |
| 2306 | Non-CS Crystals | 5 | 5 |
| 2352 | Nuclear Reactors | 50 | 50 |
| 2870 | Organic Mortar Applicators | 250 | 250 |
| 2317 | Oxides | 3 | 3 |
| 9846 | Planetary Vehicles | 50 | 50 |
| 2286 | Planktic Colonies | 5 | 5 |
| 2321 | Polyaramids | 3 | 3 |
| 3695 | Polytextiles | 3 | 3 |
| 2311 | Reactive Gas | 5 | 5 |
| 2871 | Recursive Computing Module | 250 | 250 |
| 9848 | Robotics | 50 | 50 |
| 9830 | Rocket Fuel | 3 | 3 |
| 2872 | Self-Harmonizing Power Core | 250 | 250 |
| 3697 | Silicate Glass | 3 | 3 |
| 2351 | Smartfab Units | 50 | 50 |
| 2875 | Sterile Conduits | 250 | 250 |
| 2349 | Supercomputers | 50 | 50 |
| 9838 | Superconductors | 3 | 3 |
| 2312 | Supertensile Plastics | 3 | 3 |
| 2308 | Suspended Plasma | 5 | 5 |
| 3691 | Synthetic Oil | 3 | 3 |
| 2346 | Synthetic Synapses | 50 | 50 |
| 2319 | Test Cultures | 3 | 3 |
| 12836 | Transcranial Microcontrollers | 50 | 50 |
| 9840 | Transmitter | 3 | 3 |
| 17136 | Ukomi Super Conductors | 50 | 50 |
| 28974 | Vaccines | 50 | 50 |
| 3775 | Viral Agent | 3 | 3 |
| 2328 | Water-Cooled CPU | 3 | 3 |
| 2876 | Wetware Mainframe | 250 | 250 |
+--------+------------------------------------+------------------+------------------+
SELECT invTypes.typeID, invTypes.typeName, exp.valueFloat as ExportMultiplier,
imp.valueFloat as ImportMultiplier FROM invTypes JOIN (SELECT d.typeID,
d.attributeID, d.valueFloat FROM dgmTypeAttributes
d WHERE d.attributeID = 1641) as exp ON invTypes.typeID = exp.typeID JOIN
(SELECT d.typeID, d.attributeID, d.valueFloat FROM dgmTypeAttributes
d WHERE d.attributeID = 1641) as imp ON invTypes.typeID = imp.typeID
ORDER BY invTypes.typeName;

Jagga Spikes
Minmatar
Spikes Chop Shop
Posted - 2010.06.16 11:10:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Fubar
Edited by: Fubar on 16/06/2010 10:49:44
The import and export multipliers for each planetary product are located in the dgmTypeAttributes table.

(Launch pad/cc fee) * volume * multiplier
...




nice table. just for sake of completeness, P1 have export/import multiplier 1.

H3llHound
Nex Exercitus
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.06.16 12:26:00 - [22]
 

sweet table Fubar thx for that. Your formula also works correctly :D

Lutz Major
Posted - 2010.06.16 12:33:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Lutz Major on 16/06/2010 12:34:35
Originally by: Fubar
SELECT invTypes.typeID, invTypes.typeName, exp.valueFloat as ExportMultiplier,
imp.valueFloat as ImportMultiplier FROM invTypes JOIN (SELECT d.typeID,
d.attributeID, d.valueFloat FROM dgmTypeAttributes
d WHERE d.attributeID = 1641) as exp ON invTypes.typeID = exp.typeID JOIN
(SELECT d.typeID, d.attributeID, d.valueFloat FROM dgmTypeAttributes
d WHERE d.attributeID = 1641) as imp ON invTypes.typeID = imp.typeID
ORDER BY invTypes.typeName;

The last attributeID should read 1640 for the importTaxMultiplier :-)

P.S: I hate you too, copy & paste error!!! Very Happy

Fubar
Posted - 2010.06.16 21:48:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Jagga Spikes
just for sake of completeness, P1 have export/import multiplier 1.
Thanks for pointing that out Jagga!

Originally by: Lutz Major
The last attributeID should read 1640 for the importTaxMultiplier :-)
:-) I should know by now not to rush posts or query creation.

For those that are curious.
+-------------+---------------------+
| attributeID | attributeName |
+-------------+---------------------+
| 1638 | importTax |
| 1639 | exportTax |
| 1640 | importTaxMultiplier |
| 1641 | exportTaxMultiplier |
+-------------+---------------------+




 

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