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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2010.06.10 07:46:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 10/06/2010 07:49:00
Quote:

1. Request Mission.
2. Get offered a mission with the destination in low sec.
3. Decline Mission.
4. Request Mission.
5. Get offered a Mission with the destination in low sec.
6. Wait 4 hours.
7. Decline Mission
8. Go to Bed.

Isk earned running missions in a 4 hours period:

0. Nothing



Are you a robot programmed to sequence 1-8?

Because even the mediocre of me, would go across a pair of iterations, then do something about it instead of keeping cycling it.

Examples:

1) Easiest way: move further away from low sec.

2) Notice how having L4 faction standings, other nearby (or even same) systems agents are also available and try 3-4 of them.

3) In case despite 1 and 2 you unfortunately get low sec / faction enough that you have some 30 mins left before next try, do those L4 non combat agents that yield to those high LP / ISK ratio items.

4) All of the above not counting how EvE is not just about clicking 1 agent. I'd just go take a cov ops and go explore nearby low sec for plexes, you never know you could find something exploration worth to do in a T2 agile and PvP-ish ship.

The fun part is, I know those who know how to organize their sh!t didn't need this post, those thow don't know won't do anything but whine anyway.


Edit: "so, if you know those who knew, don't need it and those who should learn, won't, why post?"

Because:

5) If you only have 5 mins left before you can take the next mission, you can as well poast on the forum! Cool

CDLoon
Minmatar
Red Sky Morning
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2010.06.10 11:26:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Noran Ferah
Edited by: Noran Ferah on 10/06/2010 01:49:46
Originally by: Goose99
Originally by: Noran Ferah
2.4B in three to four days.

The right place, the right LP, the right item.

Can be done with level 4's, but not in high sec.


Made up on the spot. Even if you play all day it won't be that quick. Especially since you won't have access to multi-billion pimped gankboats. I've done deep lowsec lvl4s. The LP difference isn't nearly big enough to compensate for lost dps from using normal boat. You will get less LP in the same amount of time compared to highsec lvl4s.


You are not as all-knowing as you think you are.

There are things people will buy for billions, that only take a few days to earn. If I can earn 50K LP per undock (multiple missions/agents/toons), how long does it take me to get to a million LP if I don't give a hoot about looting and salvage?

Now just ask yourself what LP items, less than say 3/4 million LP, will people pay billions for.


Just because you think you know it all, doesn't mean you do.

Edit to add my lowsec gankboat does 800dps. That's one of them.


Confirming that Noran has too much isk. (From personal experience)

YeOldeScout934
Posted - 2010.06.10 14:13:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Viral Effect
1. Request Mission.
2. Get offered a mission with the destination in low sec.
3. Decline Mission.
4. Request Mission.
5. Get offered a Mission with the destination in low sec.
6. Wait 4 hours.
7. Decline Mission
8. Go to Bed.

Isk earned running missions in a 4 hours period:

0. Nothing.


You need to find a different agent. There plenty of systems ~.5 true sec that are not near low sec.

Khin'charin
Incidental Damage
Posted - 2010.06.10 14:21:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Khin''charin on 10/06/2010 14:21:17
Originally by: Noran Ferah
Edited by: Noran Ferah on 10/06/2010 01:49:46
Originally by: Goose99
Originally by: Noran Ferah
2.4B in three to four days.

The right place, the right LP, the right item.

Can be done with level 4's, but not in high sec.


Made up on the spot. Even if you play all day it won't be that quick. Especially since you won't have access to multi-billion pimped gankboats. I've done deep lowsec lvl4s. The LP difference isn't nearly big enough to compensate for lost dps from using normal boat. You will get less LP in the same amount of time compared to highsec lvl4s.


You are not as all-knowing as you think you are.

There are things people will buy for billions, that only take a few days to earn. If I can earn 50K LP per undock (multiple missions/agents/toons), how long does it take me to get to a million LP if I don't give a hoot about looting and salvage?

Now just ask yourself what LP items, less than say 3/4 million LP, will people pay billions for.


Just because you think you know it all, doesn't mean you do.

Edit to add my lowsec gankboat does 800dps. That's one of them.


If I can earn 50K LP per undock (multiple missions/agents/toons)
Just out of curiosity, how exactly do you get to the Deadspaces of those multiple missions held by multiple toons, with just one undock?
Devhax?


ED: borked Q

Greedies
Posted - 2010.06.10 15:15:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Noran Ferah
2.4B in three to four days.

The right place, the right LP, the right item.

Can be done with level 4's, but not in high sec.

Now just ask yourself what LP items, less than say 3/4 million LP, will people pay billions for.



Pirate faction ships are 800,000 LP
Faction ships are 600,000 LP
Prints for those ships are 400,000 - 500,000 LP

and then Hardwire start at 321,300 LP on down

Nothing there sells for a more then 800 million on average, you might get lucky and sell a pirate faction ship on contract for a billion. But on average they sell for 700-800 million each.

What is this "item" you speak of that sells for 2.4billion in the LP store from a low sec/null sec store???

http://www.ellatha.com/eve/lporder-LP-Cost

High sec LP store will earn you 700-1000 isk per LP.

Low sec/Null sec LP store items earn around 1000-1400 isk per LP

Faction War Agents will earn you around 2000-3000 isk per LP

YeOldeScout934
Posted - 2010.06.10 16:21:00 - [36]
 

Halo or snake implants would be my guess. A full set of high grade Halo implants would go for, I believe, 2 to 3 billion.

Noran Ferah
Red Sky Morning
Posted - 2010.06.10 16:44:00 - [37]
 

I will not just blindly give away my secrets.

Suffice it to say my corpmates can verify my claims, for whatever that is worth to you rabble.


nugget906
Posted - 2010.06.10 16:58:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Noran Ferah
I will not just blindly give away my secrets.

Suffice it to say my corpmates can verify my claims, for whatever that is worth to you rabble.




Proof or it didn't happen.Laughing

Greedies
Posted - 2010.06.10 17:22:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: YeOldeScout934
Halo or snake implants would be my guess. A full set of high grade Halo implants would go for, I believe, 2 to 3 billion.


Halo, nope, Snakes have a nice return, but it's a really tough faction to run for. Only 2 lvl 4 combat agents, one is admin lvl4 q11, the other internal sec lvl4 q2. Two different corps and about 50 jumps apart. So run 1 or the other. And both in deep null sec. You're not going to be running them in a CNR, Golem or any other faction fitted PvE ship, without risking losing it every undock.

And getting ganked just once will turn that LP to Isk ratio from 4k per lp to negative in a quick hurry.



Caldari Citizen20090217
Posted - 2010.06.11 03:03:00 - [40]
 

If I believe Norans claim, I'd go with nomad implants. Full sets go for around 5bil+ iirc. Needs just over 700k LP to get a full set, which works out to 7k isk/lp Shocked


Nice Buttocks
Posted - 2010.06.11 06:47:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Caldari Citizen20090217
If I believe Norans claim, I'd go with nomad implants. Full sets go for around 5bil+ iirc. Needs just over 700k LP to get a full set, which works out to 7k isk/lp Shocked




I think ur forgetting the isk costs of the implants too, with them included you only sell the full set for under 4 bill, still around 5000K isk/lp, but not quite 7

Plus that is for Thukker, hard to get missions in their space due to lottsa roaming gangs

Amanda Eidolo
The Python Cartel.
The Defenders of Pen Island
Posted - 2010.06.11 07:27:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Irdia Freelancer
...Myself I haven't dropped below 3500 isk/lp in several years...


I just looked up your contract history; you're turning your LP into Imperial Navy Adaptive Nano Membranes. So where do you get this 3500 ISK/LP figure from with that being the case?

Just curious.

Vitamin B12
Posted - 2010.06.11 07:47:00 - [43]
 

hi,

about the lp rate. a really good rate today is 1600 isk/lp. 2000-3000 LP was few months ago. they LP value droped. dont ask me why. about the mission running nerf. well the only problem i see here is the marauder tier. its totaly silly to skill on a marauder since tyrannis. the loot bonus does not beat the skill time. i dont know what ccp thought about marauders... but i guess they will get a kind of damage bonus soon.

Caldari Citizen20090217
Posted - 2010.06.11 18:05:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Nice Buttocks
Originally by: Caldari Citizen20090217
If I believe Norans claim, I'd go with nomad implants. Full sets go for around 5bil+ iirc. Needs just over 700k LP to get a full set, which works out to 7k isk/lp Shocked




I think ur forgetting the isk costs of the implants too, with them included you only sell the full set for under 4 bill, still around 5000K isk/lp, but not quite 7

Plus that is for Thukker, hard to get missions in their space due to lottsa roaming gangs


Total isk given to thukker mix/trust partners = 472,500,000
Highest implant cost is the AY-1 @ 8mil in jita (cheaper elsewhere). All the others are "limited whatever - beta" chips. Assuming a generous 10mil ea then 60mil.

Total cost = <522,500,000 isk

Total LP=708,750

Assuming 5bil sell price, 5bil-total cost=4,477,500,000/total LP = 6,317 isk/LP

So over 6k per LP. You are right about the roaming gangs, and also thukker missions tend to screw your standings with other factions. Nothing an unprobable tengu and dedicated alt wouldn't fix tho, especially as the new mission changes mean you will mostly get missions in the current system. Theres even a hub of 3x Q20 agents at Katugumur.

Nice character name btw Laughing

RentableMuffin
Posted - 2010.06.11 20:00:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Amanda Eidolo
Originally by: Irdia Freelancer
...Myself I haven't dropped below 3500 isk/lp in several years...


I just looked up your contract history; you're turning your LP into Imperial Navy Adaptive Nano Membranes. So where do you get this 3500 ISK/LP figure from with that being the case?

Just curious.


Irdia has walked people through the process on the forums more than once in the past....

on that note I just dumped 50 over the last week or so.

Irdia Freelancer
Posted - 2010.06.11 20:34:00 - [46]
 

So to recover the old main points on lp conversion:

- buy low
- sell high

If your buying tags from buy orders, worst place to buy is jita as this has typically the highest buy order prices in eve. Even then I've picked up a good number of fleet captain tags for 100,000 each there not long ago, so are exceptions. buy from sell orders is over priced.

If selling by sell orders, worst place to sell is Jita as this has the lowest prices mostly. Similar in contracts. Selling to buy orders is wasting your own isk.

If use remote contracting, can do this while warping between gates in whatever mission your in. ie not time spent.

Now if you do all that there are some will claim its not lp income and is trade income. Buy tags but at cheaper prices - same effort there. Sell at high prices - same effort there. If your suffering from a split personality and need to hide isk from yourself, sure, go ahead, split it off as trade vs lp income. Either way isk is isk. And it is generated by buying tags, converting lp, selling modules. Its the same number of tags, same number of modules and same amount of lp converted - just I'll buy low (tags) and sell high (modules). Some even argue Jita is the place to buy from, ie I should travel up to 17 jumps to get there to buy over priced tags and sell underpriced modules when I can pick up tags cheaper near where I am and sell for more than Jita!

Amanda Eidolo
The Python Cartel.
The Defenders of Pen Island
Posted - 2010.06.12 03:57:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Irdia Freelancer
...concise explanation...


Fair enough then.

My usual agent only gives out 1 mission that lets me grab RF tags gratis; that's Enemies Abound 5/5 and it's not often I get it.

Aside from that I've always had to set up buy orders to obtain the ones I am short on/need, which gives me a much worse ISK/LP return on the IN EANMs than you are getting.

One question though: Are you pricing the tags you're collecting from drops as being worth their market rate, or free?

Irdia Freelancer
Posted - 2010.06.12 07:51:00 - [48]
 

I'm buying the tags on the market, just mostly not jita.

I found EA5/5 not great for tags either. I ran it 4x with a min of 4 tags and max of 6. Is something like 79 tags needed of the fleet captain tags so thats a lot of farming EA5/5. I expect there is another mission with better drops than this. Typically I just reject EA1-5 so dont have the standing loss. Think 2 of the missions have officers so those 2.75% standing losses to officers add up. Dont care much about the rest as 0.04 for battleship kills, need a lot of missions to drop your standings much.

My reserves of fleet high cap still good.

Leandro Salazar
Quam Singulari
Posted - 2010.06.12 08:26:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Amanda Eidolo
Originally by: Irdia Freelancer
...Myself I haven't dropped below 3500 isk/lp in several years...


I just looked up your contract history; you're turning your LP into Imperial Navy Adaptive Nano Membranes. So where do you get this 3500 ISK/LP figure from with that being the case?

Just curious.


Just to add, you get the good isk/LP by getting the Blueprints for those EANMs, not the module itself.
And the prints are offered only by certain corporations that are not usually first choice for combat mission runners.

Irdia Freelancer
Posted - 2010.06.12 11:54:00 - [50]
 

Which is like most lp conversion. If you can get a 5 run bpc its much better than coverting singular modules.

Typically the more combat orientated corps like the faction navies dont have good lp stores with good bpc selection. What is available in 5 run bpc's and worth having in faction navies?

But we have experienced players recommend combat corps for their poor lp stores.

It doesn't take much up top to work out that a small gain in lp value in conversion adds up to more than a small gain in isk/time spent. ie bounties while useful aren't the most useful in making isk.

eg say isk/lp is 500 and you can make 20,000 lp/hr - this is 10 mil an hour. Now if your making 2000 isk/lp then thats 40 mil/hr and 3500 isk/lp is 70 mil/hr. You just can't get the high isk/hr without getting some value from lp. If someone claims a low isk/lp they haven't looked very hard for better.

So some will claim some of my 3500 is 'trade' for the same effort in buying tags and selling modules. I view it as lp conversion. Blitzing I average around 20,000 lp/hr/char with 1/2 that when I loot/salv everything. If its too much isk, just need for the mission farmers to stop farming the missions and padding completion times which pad my lp earnings. Yes some increase in competition will also decrease lp earnings but the main lp earner for me is the mission farmers padding completion times.

Currently I'm looking at planetary interaction, and think I found some isk making in that. Isk can be made in many places if one but looks.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2010.06.12 12:13:00 - [51]
 

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 12/06/2010 12:15:07
Quote:

But we have experienced players recommend combat corps for their poor lp stores.



I'll tell you why experienced players reccommend poor LP stores corps.

They don't want 10000000 morons who just freeload knowledge (instead of doing their homeworks like the others) and then jump to the fat cash cow awaiting to be assaulted.

Result: suddenly the good LP items become crap, the lemmings train jumped on them.
Same as when the datacore web site came up: as soon as a new datacore goes up, it's flooded till it becomes garbage.

Leave'em whine at how LP / ISK is sooooo bad, they don't research it. They diss YOU for trading: "lol he cheats, he trades to claim high LP / ISK". And you provide them with welfare knowledge?

So why are you spoonfeeding them what you learned and earned? Have them boil in their brood of ignorance @500 ISK / LP.

Here's why people tell them to farm the navy. If they did their homeworks they'd not need to have someone tell what is meant to do or not.

Lottan
Shadow Kingdom
Best Alliance
Posted - 2010.06.12 12:45:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Lottan on 12/06/2010 12:45:23
How would you guys estimate a gain of LP when doing The Blockade in high sec?
For one mission

Edit: q20 agent is being done

Greedies
Posted - 2010.06.12 19:45:00 - [53]
 

I see, the claim of 3500 isk per LP is along the same lines as the people that say they solo lvl 5's and then you see the video and they have 2-3 ships running the mission...

So 50% of that 3500 or so is from trading, you'd make that isk wither you used it for converting your LP or not. Those same tags you could bring to Jita and sell for a profit directly, or use them to turn in for LP Store items and then sell in Jita and make the claim of this high LP to isk ratio.

Irdia Freelancer
Posted - 2010.06.12 20:53:00 - [54]
 

If you mean I could sell to buy orders in Jita and chose to setup sell orders instead.

If you mean I put up buy orders and buy an item vs buy from sell orders instead.

But thats just common sense not trading. I'm buying the same number of tags as someone your claiming isn't trading. I'm selling the same number of modules as someone you claim isn't trading.

Now if I was in the business of buying an item just to sell the same item at a profit - thats trading. I also do some of that too. Eg I picked up books at a fraction of their cost from npc's, sell them to players at near the cost from npc's. I've also done this for some tags which I picked up for 5,000-50,000 each to sell for 750,000-1,000,000 each. Now thats trading, but this buying exactly the same number of tags to use, but getting a good price isn't trading.

RentableMuffin
Posted - 2010.06.12 21:18:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Lottan
Edited by: Lottan on 12/06/2010 12:45:23
How would you guys estimate a gain of LP when doing The Blockade in high sec?
For one mission

Edit: q20 agent is being done


errm the mission window tells you a number, you complete the mission and you get that number of lp.

Iamid Ichabod
Posted - 2010.06.12 21:34:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Irdia Freelancer
If you mean I could sell to buy orders in Jita and chose to setup sell orders instead.

If you mean I put up buy orders and buy an item vs buy from sell orders instead.

But thats just common sense not trading. I'm buying the same number of tags as someone your claiming isn't trading. I'm selling the same number of modules as someone you claim isn't trading.

Now if I was in the business of buying an item just to sell the same item at a profit - thats trading. I also do some of that too. Eg I picked up books at a fraction of their cost from npc's, sell them to players at near the cost from npc's. I've also done this for some tags which I picked up for 5,000-50,000 each to sell for 750,000-1,000,000 each. Now thats trading, but this buying exactly the same number of tags to use, but getting a good price isn't trading.


This is a similar argument to the minerals a player mines mine are free to that player. In other words if you mined and used the minerals to build, then declared the gross sale of the manufactured item only manufacturing profits you would be ignoring the fact minerals have value and time (among other things) was spent to obtain the minerals.

In your case it would be like buying the minerals off the market (a trade skill), building an item (manufacturing), selling item (trade again). Then declaring all profits from manufacturing.

So you buy tags (trade), collect bpcs (mission and trade by converting assets acquired by both into another asset), build items (manufacturing), and sell items (trade). Do you honestly believe this effort is only LP profit because I truley do not understand how one could?

On another note, I've missioned a bit since the patch and anecdotally haven't noticed a signficant change in reprocessed loot. If anything the lack of some T1 drops makes it feel there are more named meta level 4s dropping in terms of rolled tungsten, ABs, shield extenders etc then in a long while (previous patches had lowered a lot of named drop rates in high sec while boosting them in low sec). I was never 1 to min max, but as a casual missioner I don't see any reason to complain (I've rarely been offered low sec level 4 missions from high sec).

Seareus Teleid
Posted - 2010.06.12 22:13:00 - [57]
 

I'm really surprised more people haven't figured out how to get around this like I have.

It's relatively simple: Find a L4 agent in a "closed" constellation.

By closed, I mean, there's one way in, and one way out through only one system. Make sure of course that none of the systems either in the constellation your agent is in, or in the direct system adjacent is in low sec.

That way, when it procs a mission that forces you to go into another constellation, it will invariably only send you to that safe system, because its the only constellation it can send you to.

Using this method, since the patch I have run 20-30 combat missions, and ZERO of them have sent me to low sec, and I do not anticipate that changing anytime soon.

Capita List
Posted - 2010.06.13 00:23:00 - [58]
 

Lots of big-fish stories in the isk/lp catergory. And yes, if you spend enough time working the market you can break 3k/lp, but if anyone is doing that consistantly they're a) in a deal with a big-time buyer, b) spending their eating, sleeping, and showering time watching the market and compiling data between misisons, or c) lucky as hell.

I've blitzed what few missions i've done since Tyr (screw the planetary ant-farm), but it's just as boring as it always has been and i'll stick to making money trading. Market pvp is still the most lucrative profession.

Yiggi
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.06.13 01:22:00 - [59]
 

the FW LP store lets me manage about 6.5k/lp currently, though since people have caught on, I don't sell as quickly or for as much. I estimate When the FW LP stores first came out, I was making about 9.5k/lp

Nuthyn
Posted - 2010.06.13 02:43:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: J Shaft
For comparison i am using a 850 DPS Dominix and i am never looting, and only salvaging missions against angels/sansha/blood raiders (if there are a lot of wrecks in the mission)...


Would you care to share your fit???


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