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blankseplocked CCP grow a pair and get rid of the alts already!
 
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Ramiera DaMorre
Posted - 2010.06.08 19:07:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Ana Vyr

Just like minerals that you mine yourself are free right?

Time is far more valuable to me than money. I prefer to actually play the game instead of working a second job inside the game to be able to log in.


Don't know about others, but with minimal effort I can get enough money for a plex fairly fast.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.06.08 19:08:00 - [62]
 

Quote:

1) EVE is MMO game, right? As such, it should promote interaction and cooperation between players instead of giving them opportunity to become more or less self-sufficient; MCS is not helping this, quite opposite.



I don't see how this is true. I have 4 accounts and still feel that I have to fleet up with other people to accomplish my goals. For instance, consider something as 'simple' as jumping a jf full of minerals into low sec:
- Entry cyno
- Exit cyno
- Jump freighter
- 2-4 carriers

I can maybe pull off the jump freighter and entry cyno - but I definitely cannot fulfill all of these roles myself.

Quote:

2) Having multiple characters only translates to abuse, self reliance, and a innate sense of personal security as you can always be someone else at any given moment if things get rough. Carebearish enough? Sure but hold on, there's more.



Pure speculation?

Quote:

3) Using multiple characters which can solve numerous market/trade tasks without having to resort to other people is effectively diminishing the economy.



Actually, ISK faucets don't parallelize well and ISK sinks do. Thus we end up with a linearly growing market with a fractionally (logrithmically?) growing income...

Quote:

4) Accountability which basically circles around the need for an personal identity for any character and accountability for their actions; this is almost non-existant in EVE because we can always create, or better: buy yet another fresh character and all our previos nefarious deeds are instantly erased.



i don't know that this being true is dependent upon having multiple accounts and alts.

Quote:

5) Sec status, standings, flagging and such are on the brink of irrelevant: whatever you do with one character, you still have another one to jump into and do everything you otherwise could not. In other words, with multiple characters that have no immediate affiliation with one another you can easily roam the space doing whatever you want without suffering any consequences for your previus actions.



Speaking as a 3 character/4 account pirate... sec status is a major pain in the ass - and that neglects the PVP disadvantage it gives you. See, you can go to Jita and buy a Bhaalgorn... I have to buy a BPC and put up buy orders for minerals, jump them into low sec, and build my Bhaalgorn there. Much much more work... all because I can't go into high sec.

Quote:

6) With multiple characters, or personalities, you can easily act as you wish with one person and drastically change this dependent on who you speak to. Now, while the argument that you can do this regardless is sound, without multiple characters certain traits have to be universally accepted. This transformation does not solely apply to market. By adding MCS to game no player can truly be trusted, and many players become *******s without accountability. Normal activities in the game become a chore, because while in a sandbox environment you shouldn’t trust others without foundation, in a sandbox game with MCS you’re unable to trust others, regardless of past interaction with them.


I underlined the interesting part here.

-Liang

Terrax Norik
Posted - 2010.06.08 19:11:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Fikreta

TL;DR Alts are evil and the worst carebearish game mechanics in EVE. They should be all lined up and shot.


While you idea may be a nice fantasy to some, it completely ignores the reality of business.
You might as well ask for all politicians to be completely honest. Rolling Eyes


simon perry
Hostile.
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
Posted - 2010.06.08 19:17:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Ovella
But if they grow a pair one of those will obviously be an alt Neutral


+1

Very Happy

Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
Posted - 2010.06.08 19:30:00 - [65]
 

theres no way for them to do this. As EVERY OTHER GAME IN EXISTANCE has pointed out, it is IMPOSSIBLE to prevent multiboxing/metagaming/etc.

Also, Who gives a ****? A player playing 4 accounts is actually at a disadvantage since he has to manage 4 different ships, compaired to you with 3 other friends all managing 1 ship each.

So, i say to you, GROW A PAIR, and stop posting this stupid with YOUR ALT of all things... lol...

Shawshanke
Posted - 2010.06.08 19:53:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Terminal Insanity
theres no way for them to do this. As EVERY OTHER GAME IN EXISTANCE has pointed out, it is IMPOSSIBLE to prevent multiboxing/metagaming/etc.

Also, Who gives a ****? A player playing 4 accounts is actually at a disadvantage since he has to manage 4 different ships, compaired to you with 3 other friends all managing 1 ship each.

So, i say to you, GROW A PAIR, and stop posting this stupid with YOUR ALT of all things... lol...


As far as missioning goes unless you can instapop battleships you're spending a lot of time watching your screen. In the time that you are waiting to switch targets I'm quickly and easily flipped between my dps ship and salvaging ship. Click click wait is just to slow a boring for me so I need to run 2 alts and can do it just as efficiently as 3 people.

Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Navigators of the Abyss
Posted - 2010.06.08 20:03:00 - [67]
 

I played this game for 3 years without any alts. Great fun.

Then I decided to get into Capital ships.

All I can say is good freakin luck flying a capital ship without an alt. You'll run into skillpoint issues, timezone issues, and overall lazy corp mate issues.

The game was playable before I got a carrier with a single accout.....
Not anymore.

Sorry but completely putting the trust in other players with a ship over a billion isk is not my cup of tea thank you.

Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
Posted - 2010.06.08 20:12:00 - [68]
 

i just utterly fail to see what you would expect ccp to do about it. you can hate metagaming/multiboxing all you like, but unless CCP wants to lose a quarter of its income and ban legitimate players who arnt multiboxing, you'll have to deal with it.

Why cant you stop multiboxing? What if my brother wants to play? Both clients appear to be coming from the same IP address, therefore same household.

Further, some ISPs tunnel their users through the SAME ip, so even if you have no relation to the guy down the street, he is still sharing the same IP address you are using, and therefore you're banned for 'multiboxing' as well.

You see now why this is something that cant ever be solved, and therefore why this thread is pointless.

Quit, or man up.

Nomad Storm
The Wandering Path
Posted - 2010.06.08 20:14:00 - [69]
 

Best part of this thread is all the people the OP seems to have scared.

Kohana Chayton
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.06.08 20:18:00 - [70]
 

This is not limited to eve, it is a problem with all MMO's. When I played EQ and EQII, I never had less than 4 active accounts at any one time. When I went on to play Vanguard, I had 3 accounts running at the same time. I switched over to Guild Wars for a while and I ran 6 accounts.

I talked with a lot of people and very few of them only had 1 account. Most had 2 or more.

OP just needs to get a better computer and get with the game.

JC Anderson
Caldari
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2010.06.08 20:24:00 - [71]
 

Edited by: JC Anderson on 08/06/2010 20:28:23
Edited by: JC Anderson on 08/06/2010 20:26:39
And again, beyond all of the other reasons you have to look at the fact that CCP encourages it.

Hence, the power of 2 promo's they run every so often which allows you to have a second account for a reduced monthly subscription rate.

They are not going to turn around and ban multi boxing after they have encouraged and made it easier to do in the first place through the reduced cost 2nd subscription promo's.

Ekrid
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2010.06.08 20:25:00 - [72]
 

Edited by: Ekrid on 08/06/2010 20:32:38
/signed in favor of OP.

just biomass all alts and give the ISK from the liquidation of skill/train time, total ISK value of character, and other stuff to their choice of main.

here's the problem: if you have alts, you have less need of other people to do things for you, so there is less REAL commerce, and more alt slaving. That makes it actually more difficult for people with only 1 account and 1 character, because they are playing as if they are a part of the eve world, and as such cant compete with randombasementdweller193812 with his 40 yr old neckbeard and 10 alt accounts. The value of this person with a single account and character is immeasurably lessened because of the alt slave.

Think about it. Look at real life world. Slaves were a way to get labor for dirt cheap. The owner of slaves wants to get as much surplus value out of the slaves as possible. But slaves in real life have constant upkeep requirements. Once you get your alt slaves to where you want them in the game, they basically work for free, or another way, the cost to have them per day becomes cheaper the longer they are around and doing work for free for randombasementdweller's main.

This makes labor value exceedingly cheap, therefor any individual with 1 account/character will have the labor value directly relative to all the alt slaves, which is a very low value indeed. That makes the 1 account/character individual less able to make money, less competitive, and less able to gain their own surplus value in terms of their labor.

Thats what makes it a GRIND (!!) for them, while for people paying for multiple accounts, they GRIND (!!) just the same to keep on top with their capitalist function of ISK making.

Sol Lethe
Gallente
Ghost-Busters
Posted - 2010.06.08 21:07:00 - [73]
 

The solution isn't to stop people from having alts. The solution is to allow a person with a single account to also have (usable) alts. Your wallet in real life shouldn't translate into an in game advantage.

This means being able to train and use all 3 characters on the account at the same time. Problem solved. Probably won't happen though.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.06.08 21:10:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Sol Lethe
The solution isn't to stop people from having alts. The solution is to allow a person with a single account to also have (usable) alts. Your wallet in real life shouldn't translate into an in game advantage.

This means being able to train and use all 3 characters on the account at the same time. Problem solved. Probably won't happen though.
How does that change the fact that RL-wallets will translate into game advantages? So now everyone has 3 alts, and those with larger wallets will have 9…

Ryhss
Caldari
The Excecutorans
Posted - 2010.06.08 21:20:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Fikreta
Edited by: Fikreta on 08/06/2010 12:15:40
So I've heard countless times how EVE is cruel cold hardcore unforgiving blah blah world. But it's all just cheap propaganda. Empty words. Why? Because CCP is not only tolerating THE MOST CAREBEARISH FEATURE of all - multiaccounting, they are actually encouraging it by designing their whole game in a way that everyone not having at least one additional account is automatically less competitive and efficient no matter what he does and how much time he invests in the game.

It doesn't really matter if you were missioner, miner, lowsec ganker, trader, industrialist, 0.0 drone... you WILL enter easy game mode the very minute you start your second account and it WILL become only more and more easier further along the line with every next account you might decide to opet later.

But even that is not the main problem here. It's the very basic concept of multi-character server (MCS) CCP is using, slowly but maliciously enticing their playerbase to sink into the hell hole of multiboxing. Unfortunately, what they apparently don't realize is that alt zergs are damaging every single aspect of this game, turning it into one ridiculously shallow carebear fluffy happy land where everyone is free to do whatever he wants easily evading REAL and long term consequences for their actions.

I think CCP should ban multiaccounting asap. Let me to quickly sum up why, without going into details which would take too much space.

1) EVE is MMO game, right? As such, it should promote interaction and cooperation between players instead of giving them opportunity to become more or less self-sufficient; MCS is not helping this, quite opposite.

2) Having multiple characters only translates to abuse, self reliance, and a innate sense of personal security as you can always be someone else at any given moment if things get rough. Carebearish enough? Sure but hold on, there's more.

3) Using multiple characters which can solve numerous market/trade tasks without having to resort to other people is effectively diminishing the economy.

4) Accountability which basically circles around the need for an personal identity for any character and accountability for their actions; this is almost non-existant in EVE because we can always create, or better: buy yet another fresh character and all our previos nefarious deeds are instantly erased.

5) Sec status, standings, flagging and such are on the brink of irrelevant: whatever you do with one character, you still have another one to jump into and do everything you otherwise could not. In other words, with multiple characters that have no immediate affiliation with one another you can easily roam the space doing whatever you want without suffering any consequences for your previus actions.

6) With multiple characters, or personalities, you can easily act as you wish with one person and drastically change this dependent on who you speak to. Now, while the argument that you can do this regardless is sound, without multiple characters certain traits have to be universally accepted. This transformation does not solely apply to market. By adding MCS to game no player can truly be trusted, and many players become *******s without accountability. Normal activities in the game become a chore, because while in a sandbox environment you shouldn’t trust others without foundation, in a sandbox game with MCS you’re unable to trust others, regardless of past interaction with them.
I concur with the above statement.

Sol Lethe
Gallente
Ghost-Busters
Posted - 2010.06.08 21:24:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Tippia
How does that change the fact that RL-wallets will translate into game advantages? So now everyone has 3 alts, and those with larger wallets will have 9…


3 characters is a reasonable (albeit arbitrary) amount. Most people won't ever use more than the 3 characters.

The advantage gained in the current format is that of being able to do more than one thing at once (cyno alt, etc). This advantage is nullified by allowing all 3 characters to be used (and trained) at once. Sure, someone could buy 2 more accounts, but then they are only gaining additional concurrency and not the ability to do so in the first place.

In the current system the two slots are probably reserved for a forum ***** and a low sp hauler alt for most single account players. They rarely become more than that unless you're a veteran player and don't mind pausing training on your main.

SamGromoff
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2010.06.08 21:25:00 - [77]
 

I, too, would like to fly a supercapital ship with one account per player

Gladys Pank
Amarr
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
Posted - 2010.06.08 21:40:00 - [78]
 

I will be opening a sixth account in honour of this thread.

JC Anderson
Caldari
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2010.06.08 21:43:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Gladys Pank
I will be opening a sixth account in honour of this thread.


ROFL

Selene D'Celeste
Caldari
The D'Celeste Trading Company
ISK Six
Posted - 2010.06.08 22:26:00 - [80]
 

With regards to accounts and subbing, CCP is among the most progressive of all MMOs to date. The combination of encouraging multiple accounts, character selling, and GTC/PLEX purchases is really a powerful combo in terms of their income, increasing the player population (actual humans not accounts), hurting ISK sellers, and allowing a mechanism to get around the SP barrier for newer players.

Making such things EULA violations is ineffective and bad business. This is one of the areas where CCP excels, so no, they should change nothing.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.06.08 22:46:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Selene D'Celeste
With regards to accounts and subbing, CCP is among the most progressive of all MMOs to date. The combination of encouraging multiple accounts, character selling, and GTC/PLEX purchases is really a powerful combo in terms of their income, increasing the player population (actual humans not accounts), hurting ISK sellers, and allowing a mechanism to get around the SP barrier for newer players.

Making such things EULA violations is ineffective and bad business. This is one of the areas where CCP excels, so no, they should change nothing.


Oooooooh.... very nice post. My compliments. :)

-Liang

Digital Solaris
Posted - 2010.06.08 23:04:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Fikreta
WAAH~!


To be honest, I am happy that I can afford multiple accounts so I won't have to rely on a bunch of madly jealous neurotic asshats for stuff to be done. It is just not worth the time or the headache I'd get from dealing with one of you. As matter of fact, the next time CCP has another Power of Two deal, I plan to get my fifth account.

A harsh, cruel, cold and bitter truth for you right there. Suck on that fact along your whine and cheese whilst I will have more of your absolutely divine tears, like a fine wine, as they roll down your cheeks until they flow down into my empty glass.

Kyusoath Orillian
Haters Gonna Hate
Posted - 2010.06.08 23:22:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Fikreta
Edited by: Fikreta on 08/06/2010 12:15:40...complete ****..



one of the worst trolling attempts i have ever seen.


did no one ever tell you that trolling is a art ?

empire hauler
Posted - 2010.06.08 23:49:00 - [84]
 

while op is correct in some points the thread is overall fail...

1 alts do not lessen interaction, they give more ways of interaction.

2 ''innate sense of personnal security'' wtf its a game lol

3 more character=more commerce(=more offer=more demand=bigger market), ur statment is horribly against logic

4 ''need for an personal identity for any character and accountability for their actions'' dude its a game, u sound like ure running a state ministry of justice...

5 ''Sec status, standings, flagging and such are on the brink of irrelevant'' oh really? fake edit: i just tried avoided flagging, i told concord: ''fear mah ship i haz alts'' man concord blew me up in mah face. so i bring that other alt, u know to teach those concord suckers a lesson they need... again they killed my alt even thou my alts were confirmin in local im telling truth to concord officer. I raged and raged and little tought, hrm concord dumb ****s dont know yet that flagging is ''on the brink of irrelevant''

6 the ''easily act'' part is called role playing: Massive Multiplayer Online ROLE PLAYING: MMORPG, ever heard of it yet?
about the trust part: if u cant trust a guy with multiaccs u cant trust him on one account neither.

Kohana Chayton
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.06.08 23:53:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Selene D'Celeste
With regards to accounts and subbing, CCP is among the most progressive of all MMOs to date. The combination of encouraging multiple accounts, character selling, and GTC/PLEX purchases is really a powerful combo in terms of their income, increasing the player population (actual humans not accounts), hurting ISK sellers, and allowing a mechanism to get around the SP barrier for newer players.

Making such things EULA violations is ineffective and bad business. This is one of the areas where CCP excels, so no, they should change nothing.


+1

I agree 100% with this. EVE, while it does have it's problems, is easily the most liberal MMO going in this aspect.

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.06.09 00:05:00 - [86]
 

Sounds like the OP is having a hard time getting anyone to play with him. Since his answer to that problem is to force others to play with him, perhaps we can see why others do not wish to play with him.

Couple that with the completely delusional suggestion that CCP give up over half their subscribers? I'm calling this a nut case. Fun to laugh at, but other than that a waste of time.

Windjammer

empire hauler
Posted - 2010.06.09 00:06:00 - [87]
 

Edited by: empire hauler on 09/06/2010 00:08:51
Originally by: Fikreta
7) Economic damage (see also my first point) - why ever bother to talk and work on contacts with dedicated manufacturers, when you can make/buy your own? Players need to depend on each other for an economy to really work. It won't if people are self-sufficient. MCS allows players to create countless industrial/mining alts which have detrimental effects on the player driven economy, ultimately increasing the number of manufacturers so those players who want to be full time crafters or even those that aren't interested in PvP but play to be a part of the economy will be severely undervalued. Industrial alts are flooding the market driving prices down, and hurting anyone.

8) Globalization: one of the most tragic things you can see in a game is when the massive huge world shaped around you is reduced to an insignificant size. The ability to log off of one character and immediately be thrown across the face of the map is doing just that.

9) Combat, either PvP or PvE: do I really need to talk how MCS is literally ruining it? Again, instead of encouraging cooperation between players, MCS is promoting one man armies roaming around whole New Eden. And yes, this includes even cap pilot and their now mandatory cyno alts. If you really want to pilot one of those you should first get to know trustworthy friends/corpies in game, not just to fire up another client and pick just another easy lame solution.

TL;DR Alts are evil and the worst carebearish game mechanics in EVE. They should be all lined up and shot.


7 if u wanna buy your own u will need to get it from manufacturers, if u wanna make ur own u will still probably need something from market. many things cant be made so depend on marker regardles of number of alts u have. actualy the more alts the more stuff they will need/produce the more they will drive market.

8 u can clone jump or suicide jump even on one char, argument invalid

9 one man armies roamin across new eden... hey can i have some of the stuff ure smoking... if now u can maybe get a cyno in yr corp chat its mainly bcs corpies have alts, remove alts and u will see how many ppl will move ther main to make a cyno for you (hint: its a low number)

actualy the single problem there is that i see is that multiboxing (specially mining) in combination with macros is making work of otherplayer not using macros and multiple accounts worth lot less. its funny op didnt mention the only real issue that lowers the quality of the game...

tl;dr op is just going whiny emo kid. i wonder what happened is he a trader that cant make profit and hes blaming alts, did he die cos of the falcon alt, must be something but im 2 lazy to research who touched him where and why is he so butthurt now.


not so fake edit: yesss im an alt Laughing

beautyispain
Posted - 2010.06.09 00:43:00 - [88]
 

I'd like to point out that having two accounts makes it extremely easy to make enough isk to run the second account for free with PLEX. But limiting how many accounts one can have is just plain stupid, people should be able to play this game however they please, if they want to play alone with a couple of alts, fine.

Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
Posted - 2010.06.09 00:50:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: Terminal Insanity
i just utterly fail to see what you would expect ccp to do about it. you can hate metagaming/multiboxing all you like, but unless CCP wants to lose a quarter of its income and ban legitimate players who arnt multiboxing, you'll have to deal with it.

Why cant you stop multiboxing? What if my brother wants to play? Both clients appear to be coming from the same IP address, therefore same household.

Further, some ISPs tunnel their users through the SAME ip, so even if you have no relation to the guy down the street, he is still sharing the same IP address you are using, and therefore you're banned for 'multiboxing' as well.

You see now why this is something that cant ever be solved, and therefore why this thread is pointless.

Quit, or man up.


You can never put too many nails into a coffin.

GoGo Rens
Posted - 2010.06.09 02:23:00 - [90]
 

Why would you waste so much time posting about something that will never change.
Obviously ccp are not going to suddenly wipe out 50% of their income by banning half the accounts that people pay for and therefore their income.. Not including all the others who would then quit their main character as well.


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