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blankseplocked CCP grow a pair and get rid of the alts already!
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Posted - 2010.06.08 12:14:00 - [1]

Edited by: Fikreta on 08/06/2010 12:15:40
So I've heard countless times how EVE is cruel cold hardcore unforgiving blah blah world. But it's all just cheap propaganda. Empty words. Why? Because CCP is not only tolerating THE MOST CAREBEARISH FEATURE of all - multiaccounting, they are actually encouraging it by designing their whole game in a way that everyone not having at least one additional account is automatically less competitive and efficient no matter what he does and how much time he invests in the game.

It doesn't really matter if you were missioner, miner, lowsec ganker, trader, industrialist, 0.0 drone... you WILL enter easy game mode the very minute you start your second account and it WILL become only more and more easier further along the line with every next account you might decide to opet later.

But even that is not the main problem here. It's the very basic concept of multi-character server (MCS) CCP is using, slowly but maliciously enticing their playerbase to sink into the hell hole of multiboxing. Unfortunately, what they apparently don't realize is that alt zergs are damaging every single aspect of this game, turning it into one ridiculously shallow carebear fluffy happy land where everyone is free to do whatever he wants easily evading REAL and long term consequences for their actions.

I think CCP should ban multiaccounting asap. Let me to quickly sum up why, without going into details which would take too much space.

1) EVE is MMO game, right? As such, it should promote interaction and cooperation between players instead of giving them opportunity to become more or less self-sufficient; MCS is not helping this, quite opposite.

2) Having multiple characters only translates to abuse, self reliance, and a innate sense of personal security as you can always be someone else at any given moment if things get rough. Carebearish enough? Sure but hold on, there's more.

3) Using multiple characters which can solve numerous market/trade tasks without having to resort to other people is effectively diminishing the economy.

4) Accountability which basically circles around the need for an personal identity for any character and accountability for their actions; this is almost non-existant in EVE because we can always create, or better: buy yet another fresh character and all our previos nefarious deeds are instantly erased.

5) Sec status, standings, flagging and such are on the brink of irrelevant: whatever you do with one character, you still have another one to jump into and do everything you otherwise could not. In other words, with multiple characters that have no immediate affiliation with one another you can easily roam the space doing whatever you want without suffering any consequences for your previus actions.

6) With multiple characters, or personalities, you can easily act as you wish with one person and drastically change this dependent on who you speak to. Now, while the argument that you can do this regardless is sound, without multiple characters certain traits have to be universally accepted. This transformation does not solely apply to market. By adding MCS to game no player can truly be trusted, and many players become *******s without accountability. Normal activities in the game become a chore, because while in a sandbox environment you shouldn’t trust others without foundation, in a sandbox game with MCS you’re unable to trust others, regardless of past interaction with them.

Posted - 2010.06.08 12:17:00 - [2]

7) Economic damage (see also my first point) - why ever bother to talk and work on contacts with dedicated manufacturers, when you can make/buy your own? Players need to depend on each other for an economy to really work. It won't if people are self-sufficient. MCS allows players to create countless industrial/mining alts which have detrimental effects on the player driven economy, ultimately increasing the number of manufacturers so those players who want to be full time crafters or even those that aren't interested in PvP but play to be a part of the economy will be severely undervalued. Industrial alts are flooding the market driving prices down, and hurting anyone.

8) Globalization: one of the most tragic things you can see in a game is when the massive huge world shaped around you is reduced to an insignificant size. The ability to log off of one character and immediately be thrown across the face of the map is doing just that.

9) Combat, either PvP or PvE: do I really need to talk how MCS is literally ruining it? Again, instead of encouraging cooperation between players, MCS is promoting one man armies roaming around whole New Eden. And yes, this includes even cap pilot and their now mandatory cyno alts. If you really want to pilot one of those you should first get to know trustworthy friends/corpies in game, not just to fire up another client and pick just another easy lame solution.

TL;DR Alts are evil and the worst carebearish game mechanics in EVE. They should be all lined up and shot.

Sol Mahon
State Protectorate
Posted - 2010.06.08 12:18:00 - [3]

Ok so you have outlined everything wrong with alt accounts. Now, how about a suggested fix?

Posted - 2010.06.08 12:21:00 - [4]

But if they grow a pair one of those will obviously be an alt Neutral

Dez Affinity
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.08 12:22:00 - [5]

Alts are not a complete replacement of real players. Any multiboxer will tell you that running even 2 accounts at once makes them play much worse on both accounts than if they were playing on just one.

Cat o'Ninetails
Rancer Defence League
Posted - 2010.06.08 12:22:00 - [6]

I think that a large portion of CCPs income is derived from these "alts" of which you speak. There aren't any official figures available, but rough estimates could place the average number of accounts per unique person at least at two or more.

By disallowing second accounts, there would probably be more negative fallout than you suspect. The indy alt corp that supplies your pvp main corp with ships and modules? Kiss that goodbye, as one example.

Capital ships would suck even more than they do already, imagine trying to move your carrier without alts. Just relying on a chain of your corp or alliance mates to move you along. They'd resent you for it, or maybe not even be online at the time you need to move.

Also, if alts were removed from the game, I'd not be posting here. So, to some there may be a benefit.

4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.06.08 12:23:00 - [7]

The fact is this game is so heavily dependant on cooperation and not singleplayer that people are forced to use alts cause there are not always people around to assist you with every litle thing that need 2 people

Posted - 2010.06.08 12:24:00 - [8]

Originally by: Fikreta
I think CCP should ban multiaccounting asap.

Laughing yeah like CCP would do that and lose a huge % of it's income from subscriptions. People will always find ways to multi account even if a devoloper somewhere commited financial suicide by trying to ban it.

Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.06.08 12:24:00 - [9]

Can't be done.

The Unwanted.
Posted - 2010.06.08 12:28:00 - [10]

CCP is a business.

Anything they can do to increase subscriber count and generate revenue should be explored.

Why? Because the more revenue they generate equals more development on this game and any other games they want to deploy off the same IP, like Dust 514.

Without this revenue, New Eden would not look as it does today, and will not look the way it will in the future.

Besides, what someone does with their own money and how they decide to play this game is frankly, none of your business. And if the money they spend on playing this game so they can own a CNR and spin it in stations means we get things like planetary interaction and ambulation, then I'm for it.


James Tritanius
Posted - 2010.06.08 12:31:00 - [11]


CCP doesn't want to lose 80% of its income.

Paradox Collective
Posted - 2010.06.08 12:35:00 - [12]

Better question:

Why do you care what other people are doing?

I only have one Toon, not even an alt.

Some peopel multi-box or whatever. I don't care.
Why should that be my business what other people do with their Rl money?


Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.06.08 12:57:00 - [13]

Oh, it's this thread again.

Can't we just talk about how allowing people who advocate gun control teaching evolution makes abortion levels increase amongst homosexuals in the military in Iraq, or something equally productive?

The Knights Templar
Posted - 2010.06.08 12:59:00 - [14]

In my opinion miss Fikreta is wrong from point one to point nine.

For a long time I had only one account (almost two years I had only one account). I never felt that, it is a good thing to have two accounts, but at some point I realized that second character is a usefull feature. One do not need to have it to excell, but it's so usefull that if you are able to pay it, you may buy it.

So what I'm using this character for?

a) cynoing (when no corp mate is nearby)
b) scouting (when system is not covered by our alliance intel)
c) market trading
d) in the past for mining or hauling

You may say that when you have 2, 3, 4 or even 5 characters you dont need to cooperate with other people. But did you ever try to mine with 3 accounts? After an hour or two you are so exhusted that you preffer to mine with your corp mates, one guy is hauling, one is commpressing in rorqual and you and your alt are mining. Better fun, better yeld, better efficiency, and you have event time to drink your favorite beer or whatever you wish.

Have you ever handled trade orders with 300+ open orders at the same time? (One character of mine has ~160 orders, the other ~140 orders)

Or run missions with 2 characters or more?

Guess what. When you add another character you do not receive second pair of hands or eyes. You are unable to efficently use alts for anything except some slow and passive actions (like trading), and at some point there is so much you have to do, that you even cant use effectively your alts for passive actions (maybe with exception of datacores).

I believe the real issue is not that CCP is forcing usto play multiaccounts, but the lack of trust between pleayers. I prefered to mine, and manufacture on my own, not because I had two accounts, but I was afraid that the guy from my corp at some point will run away with twenty or more quite expensive blueprints. What is more two characters driven by two different people are more effective then two characters driven by one person. It's like cores in your CPU, two or four cores, does not mean that you are going to have two or four times better performance, but yet it's usefull to run an operating system without slowdowns.

My favorite lol part in the end:

3) Using multiple characters which can solve numerous market/trade tasks without having to resort to other people is effectively diminishing the economy.

Market is dimnishing because what? There is too many market orders total?


DeT Resprox
Posted - 2010.06.08 13:02:00 - [15]

Alts are needed - if/when i ever get a Mothership or Titan, i'm sure as hell not leaving it in a POS shield while i wander off and there's no way i'd buy another account just to log it in when i need to use said ship.

Alts are handy when you need to buy a char with isk for use of these ships.

Ayaska Shran
Posted - 2010.06.08 13:11:00 - [16]

Originally by: Sol Mahon
Ok so you have outlined everything wrong with alt accounts. Now, how about a suggested fix?

Regardless if alts are good or bad, the above quote is the key problem. There is no fix. There is no way to prevent someone from obtaining and running multiple accounts.

So the whole issue is mute.

There is no in-game balancing to fix this either as long as two players/characters are better than one (which it should be) then alts will always be an advantage.

Furb Killer
Posted - 2010.06.08 13:14:00 - [17]

Eve would be better without alts, no doubt. (Especially due to the accountebility (or however you write it) part, there would be consequences to actions). But it isnt possible to get completely rid of alts, too many ways to get around it. That said, doesnt need to stop them from making it a eula violation, kinda like account sharing, also not allowed even more not possible for ccp to do anything about it. However in the end CCP just earns too much due to alts to stop it.

War Kitten
Panda McLegion
Posted - 2010.06.08 13:26:00 - [18]

Originally by: Ayaska Shran


So the whole issue is mute.


I believe the word you're looking for is 'moot'.

OP - get over it. The "game" you've described with one forced personality is called "life" and we all play it daily. The market there sucks too, so find a different argument. :)

MatrixSkye Mk2
Posted - 2010.06.08 13:29:00 - [19]

The OP makes a very good argument. But asking CCP to get rid of alts is asking it to commit suicide. It just won't (and shouldn't) happen.

Posted - 2010.06.08 13:34:00 - [20]

I am in firm agreement that in an ideal world alts dilute the game expierence and it would be nice to remove them completely.

But the problem is with the way eve is structured as a 'sandbox' some people NEED to have alts because they cannot do the things they need to do on their main account. So removing alts in eve would be a complete disaster.

Syn Callibri
21st Eridani Lighthorse
Posted - 2010.06.08 13:40:00 - [21]

Edited by: Syn Callibri on 08/06/2010 13:40:58

Alts will not go away...I say this as a single account player and you know what, I dont care that other people have 2-3-4-5-6 whatever accounts t/b/h. Its thier money...thier time...thier playstyle. "EvE is a sandbox", even if other players don't build sandcastles the way you think they should. You want inter-dependance? Join a Corp and an alliance, and depend on them.

/puts soapbox away/

Lady Ayeipsia
Posted - 2010.06.08 13:44:00 - [22]

Originally by: Sellmewarez
I am in firm agreement that in an ideal world alts dilute the game expierence and it would be nice to remove them completely.

But the problem is with the way eve is structured as a 'sandbox' some people NEED to have alts because they cannot do the things they need to do on their main account. So removing alts in eve would be a complete disaster.

Additionally, alts allow newer players to experience more aspects of EVE. I know I could not have both a PVP player which I enjoy, and an industrialist without alts. I have been playing for only 6 months. Yet with 2 characters, I can enjoy different aspects of EVE which would otherwise take me another 6 months to train for.

Posted - 2010.06.08 13:47:00 - [23]

Can anyone suggest an appropriately strong hemorrhoid cream for the OP? He obviously needs something more soothing than the phallus he's currently using!

Posted - 2010.06.08 13:48:00 - [24]

Never. Going. To. Happen.

Natalie Caladan
Posted - 2010.06.08 13:52:00 - [25]

Edited by: Natalie Caladan on 08/06/2010 13:56:47
Originally by: James Tritanius
CCP doesn't want to lose 80% of its income.


1. Money is a main reason for CCP not to do it (imo) and I honestly don't think 80% is an overstimation.
2. With 30 years of training in the game I can imagine that people want to split the training between multiple accounts, especially as there's very little overlap between for instance a combat character and an industrial. It's nice to have insight into and experience with more aspects of the game - and just one account really doesn't allow that.
3. Semi-afk mining makes mult-acconting very easy to do. Almost as if it's designed to enable multi-accounting.
4. Traveling times: it's often a 30 minutes trip if a corp member wants to help you which doesn't really encourage teaming up. People rather do their thing with 2 accounts. Same for timezones: I'ma euro player and more often than not there's just a few corp members on-line.

- If you don't want multi-accounts I suggest making the game so intensive and requiring so much attention that running 2 accounts isn't really an option. Make NPCs smart and unpredictable, forcing you to respond within a few seconds. It's for a reason people don't play shooters or racing games with 2 accounts.
- Also, if you could train more characters on one account like any regular mmorpg you could still experience more aspects of the game without being able to actually play those characters at the same time. But again: loss of income for CCP.

Neo Spartans
Laconian Syndicate
Posted - 2010.06.08 14:30:00 - [26]

Rofl, 80% not an over-estimation?

It was round about 18-20% last time they gave out figures. The only reason people ***** 'n' whine about it is because they don't have the £££ to do it.

Posted - 2010.06.08 14:35:00 - [27]

The OP obviously didn't watch the butterfly effect video.

See if you would have watched it you would have learned that there are no alts in this game, its a game of 300,000 "people". 300,000 who care about what happens in 0.0 and that Atlas is a friendly alliance that doesn't shoot neutrals with a recruiting policy of "save a miner, join our fleet".

Posted - 2010.06.08 14:38:00 - [28]

Originally by: Grez
Rofl, 80% not an over-estimation?

It was round about 18-20% last time they gave out figures. The only reason people ***** 'n' whine about it is because they don't have the £££ to do it.

imo 80% is an exaggeration, but I bet it's closer to 50% than 20%.

Ana Vyr
Posted - 2010.06.08 14:39:00 - [29]

I agree with the OP.

I refuse to buy a second account despite the self-nerfing it causes, just on principle.

To me, you should be able to be as effective as anyone else in the game with only a single personal account. My industry corp mates laugh their asses off at me for this stance as they merrily run two Hulks and a Orca per player.

45 bucks a month to play a MMO seems way over the top to me. Shrug.

Ramiera DaMorre
Posted - 2010.06.08 14:44:00 - [30]

Dear Op!
Ultimately this is a game.
Stop taking it too seriously.

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