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Callib Gor'Karrithe
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.06.04 01:33:00 - [1]
 

Is there anywhere I might find any kind of history about the Talocan civilization? EVElopedia is rather vague about most of those ancient civilizations from EVE lore.

I'm curious and want to learn more about that sort of stuff.

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2010.06.04 09:36:00 - [2]
 

Talocan and Sleepers are either the same race or joined togather. You get Sleeper hulls from Talocan ships and there are lots of Sleeper loot and other refrence to sleepers on Talocan ships.

Talocan Tech Level: Around T2, some areas a little behind others further along then us.
Technology of Note: The Talocan were masters of Spatial manipulation and Hypereuclidean Mathematics.
Lore of Note: Have some sort of portal technology. (To be confirmed)

Talocan Static Gate
This standing structure shares many similar aspects with modern acceleration gates. Whispers among Talocan lore-keepers tell of the Talocanís firm grasp of astronautical engineering, and this gate may offer some insight into this ancient raceís knowledge.

Talocan Outpost
Narrow tubes and electrical wiring fill the outpost conduit. Equal parts electrical artery and linking structure, the interior of this connecting structure is in disrepair, but itís polyferrous hull keeps the ravages of space and time at bay.

Talocan weapons and modules tend to be worse then our T2 by a small amount but more efficient and better fittings if I recall correctly.

Dismus
Gallente
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
Posted - 2010.06.04 12:00:00 - [3]
 

Oh, okay! But essentially aside from that stuff, there's no real difinitive source of information?

Just reading about all this connection between the Talocan and the Sleepers made me wonder if maybe there was a little more background information for me to pour over in hopes of some sort of deeper understanding of what's going on.

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2010.06.04 12:52:00 - [4]
 

It's all little bits scattered all over Cosmos in K space and Wspace.
I am not aware of anyone that has put all the Talocan lore into one file/location.

CCP Jasonitas

Posted - 2010.06.04 15:51:00 - [5]
 

If you find two dinosaur fossils in the same spot, it's not always wise to assume the animals lived concurrently.

Myxx
Atropos Group
Posted - 2010.06.04 15:58:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: CCP Jasonitas
If you find two dinosaur fossils in the same spot, it's not always wise to assume the animals lived concurrently.


oooooooooooo. Thats telling.

Nathan Jameson
Talocan Vanguard
Talocan United
Posted - 2010.06.05 19:09:00 - [7]
 

Using evolution as an example, perhaps one even evolved into the other.

Kenpachi Viktor
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2010.06.06 16:15:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: CCP Jasonitas
If you find two dinosaur fossils in the same spot, it's not always wise to assume the animals lived concurrently.


This sounds strangely like the storyline for Mass Effect...

CCP Jasonitas

Posted - 2010.06.07 17:36:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Kenpachi Viktor
Originally by: CCP Jasonitas
If you find two dinosaur fossils in the same spot, it's not always wise to assume the animals lived concurrently.


This sounds strangely like the storyline for Mass Effect...


I don't know about Mass Effect, but the situation described is a basic question in archaeology. Discovering the ancient world requires thinking in at least four dimensions. Very Happy

Terokone
Posted - 2010.06.08 04:47:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: CCP Jasonitas

I don't know about Mass Effect, but the situation described is a basic question in archaeology. Discovering the ancient world requires thinking in at least four dimensions. Very Happy


That would mean thinking through time. So let's see... the current world is built upon the layers of the skeletons of the ancient world.

The ancient world is uncovered by digging through layers and layers of the current world.

I'm going to post a few CCP quotes I've collected while doing my own research, thinking, and theorizing about the Sleeper storyline.

"If you find two dinosaur fossils in the same spot, it's not always wise to assume the animals lived concurrently." - Jasonitas
This in reference to abandoned Talocan ships at Sleeper sites.

"The pieces of this puzzle are scattered across a wide area, and [a wide] stretch of time...all of this--all of it-- is unfolding in real time." - Pottsey quote of Dropbear

"The overlap of design goals should become noticeable. The clue, if you can't quite figure it out, is in the name of the Sleepers, and in the question: If you're planning on not being around, as it were, what's your safest, most easily acquired, 100% guaranteed source of electricity?" - Dropbear

Many of these posts speak of time in some form.
Wormholes are theorized to not only travel great distances, but through time as well. Let's assume that the wormholes take us backward through time (running with a linear universe in this line of thinking), what if these wormhole systems are the ancient version of the Eve Galaxy before humans arrived from Earth?

Assuming these wormholes allow us to travel backward through time, and the Sleepers had done just that perhaps the Sleepers have actually colonized the space we currently know in the distant past and were sleeping, awaiting the reopening of the Eve Gate.
Unfortunately, information discovered while exploring the Oruze Osobnyk tell that the Sleepers were researching terran artifacts, so that might rule that idea as false.

Now, one question I have, do we know whether these systems are far from known space, or nearby? Anomalies are common in wormhole systems, such as black holes, wolf-rayets, pulsars, magnetars, etc. seem to suggest these systems would be near the galactic core, but I could be completely wrong here.

Oh, how I love storylines which make me think Very Happy

Terokone
Posted - 2010.06.08 05:50:00 - [11]
 

Now, another thing I noticed is that a lot of the Sleeper drone loot has strange things that don't seem like they'd be useful on a drone, not to mention also includes the concept of time. Also note a lot of Sleeper stuff, including the databases, were built to last a long, long time.

----------

Cartesian Temporal Coordinator
At first glance this coordinator appears to be a common enough piece of equipment, albeit an odd one to be found inside a drone. Designed to plot various points in time across a potentially infinite period, these devices are often used for scientific calculations.

For some unknown reason, this particular coordinator is configured to synchronize its processing speed in time with the distance travelled between two points. What purpose this serves remains a mystery, but the objectís basic functionality can be reconfigured. With the addition of a few other components, it would allow electronics systems to more easily withstand the interference from subspace distortion.

----------

Jump Drive Control Nexus
Barely salvageable from the wreck of a Sleeper drone, this device could have been something much more impressive when it was fully functional. In its current state it is almost unrecognizable, having been scratched, burned and even chemically melted. It looks like it was housed next to the drone's power core, which would explain the extreme heat damage it suffered when the drone exploded.

Stranger yet, it almost seems as if it was lined with some kind of triggered-release corrosive. The self-destruct mechanism Ė if thatís even what it was Ė only caused so much damage, and the acid didn't burn cleanly through the center of the drive.

Even as a shadow of its former self, it can be combined with other components to form a fully functional warp drive. Being capable of this, even in such a bad state, strongly suggests that the device was capable of other types of more advanced interstellar travel. Why a Sleeper drone was equipped with this level of technology remains a mystery.

----------

Resonance Calibration Matrix
RCM play an important role in stabilizing a shipís alignment prior to, and in the first moments of, interstellar warp. The Sleeper drone RCM system works in an entirely different manner to contemporary Empire-based technology and yet the angles of alignment produced by their final calculations are always identical. Even though their inner workings remain a mystery, the matrices operate in a predictable and reliable enough fashion to form the basis of a new, slightly more efficient jump drive.

-----------

Perhaps there is something about different timelines (in a nonlinear universe) resonating at different frequencies, and the RCM calculates this to keep Sleepers within the same timeline as the Eve galaxy as we know it.

Aynen
Posted - 2010.06.08 06:15:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Terokone
Cartesian Temporal Coordinator: Designed to plot various points in time across a potentially infinite period, these devices are often used for scientific calculations. For some unknown reason, this particular coordinator is configured to synchronize its processing speed in time with the distance travelled between two points.
I've been pondering this one myself, and figured, if you're going to be traveling through unstable wormholes that can lead anywhere, you'll need a way of figuring out where you are in relation to your point of origin. It seems that this device could do that.

Aynen
Posted - 2010.06.08 06:22:00 - [13]
 

My previous post gives me an idea: If the sleepers where designed to be able to calculate their position when traveling through unstable wormholes, then it would be evidence that this is also the technology they used in ancient times to get to where they are now. Sleepers didn't have the technology to create time-space distortions, but the Talocan did. It's evidence that they where either working together or that the sleepers covertly followed the Talocan through the wormholes they left behind.
Also, when we travel through the wormholes, we generally don't care where exactly this new system is that we're in. We are there for the riches. So why would they want to know the exact position or atleast the distance between the new system and the original cluster unless they where looking for something specific?

Kenpachi Viktor
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2010.06.08 21:33:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Kenpachi Viktor on 08/06/2010 21:40:57

Originally by: Terokone

For some unknown reason, this particular coordinator is configured to synchronize its processing speed in time with the distance travelled between two points.


There are some birds that navigate using a fixed internal clock, and local time differentiation.

http://www.eveonline.com/background/jump/jump_02.asp also

Quote:
By studying the remains, which were more or less intact, the Amarrians were able to garner enough information to build a jump gate of their own. The jump gate was operational but obviously it lacked connections to other jump gates, as it was the only one of its kind. Thus the Amarrians were forced to physically send ships capable of building jump gates between solar systems before a stable wormhole could be formed into the system to connect the two gates. These gate construction ships often took decades to arrive, the crew suspended in cryo-tanks for the duration of the voyage. Only in recent years with the coming of jump drives capable of jumping between systems with no jump gates in them is it possible to overcome this time-consuming prelude to inter-stellar traveling via jump gates and still today dozens of gate construction ships are enroute to a distant system.


If you have a fixed speed, you can calculate a time/distance ratio. You can then set stuff to happen after a certain amount of time. But if your speed is variable, than you need to be able to accommodate that. These devices would allow for a variable speed as well.

DmD666
Interwebs Cooter Explosion
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.06.09 23:51:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Terokone

Jump Drive Control Nexus
Barely salvageable from the wreck of a Sleeper drone, this device could have been something much more impressive when it was fully functional. In its current state it is almost unrecognizable, having been scratched, burned and even chemically melted. It looks like it was housed next to the drone's power core, which would explain the extreme heat damage it suffered when the drone exploded.

Stranger yet, it almost seems as if it was lined with some kind of triggered-release corrosive. The self-destruct mechanism Ė if thatís even what it was Ė only caused so much damage, and the acid didn't burn cleanly through the center of the drive.

Even as a shadow of its former self, it can be combined with other components to form a fully functional warp drive. Being capable of this, even in such a bad state, strongly suggests that the device was capable of other types of more advanced interstellar travel. Why a Sleeper drone was equipped with this level of technology remains a mystery.



The Sleepers only almost-destroyed this? I'm sure the Sleepers could invent a better self-destruct. The Sleepers are hiding technology they don't want others to know about, but they knew whoever got there would already have warp technology. If it's more advanced forms of interstellar travel they're hiding, it could probably lead us to the creators of the Sleepers...or wherever the thing that caused all this quarantining came from.

Terokone
Posted - 2010.06.10 00:24:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: DmD666

The Sleepers only almost-destroyed this? I'm sure the Sleepers could invent a better self-destruct. The Sleepers are hiding technology they don't want others to know about, but they knew whoever got there would already have warp technology. If it's more advanced forms of interstellar travel they're hiding, it could probably lead us to the creators of the Sleepers...or wherever the thing that caused all this quarantining came from.


Now that you mention this, it appears that the Sleepers tried to protect most, if not all, their technology from outsiders. Going with an idea that was already posted, if the Sleepers "aren't going to be around, as it were", it would be logical for them to protect their technology so they could keep their advantage when they returned. Ultimately, they would have succeeded if they fully understood their own technology. It appears that the Sleepers have underestimated the resilience of their own technology, assuming it was their own in the first place.

There's also another thing, empire warp technology is old. The faster-than-light warp might allow us to go 9.0 AU/s, but it's limited significantly compared to the tech of the stargates and even the Sleepers. The stargates use artifical wormholes for interstellar space travel, not FTL acceleration, which would normally be fuel-intensive, as indicated by current empire jump drive tech. Stargates use gravitic anomalies present in a star system to generate the artifical wormholes.

The Minmatar were very close to achieving fuel-less interstellar FTL acceleration that would have rivaled the current stargate tech, but they were enslaved before they could finish. That FTL warp drive tech was lost forever to the empires because stargate tech was already the norm. Why bother researching something that could be done with tech that already exists?

In my limited experience with wormhole systems (my corp is playing in a C3 at the moment), I haven't encountered any Sleeper jump/stargates, but I think I remember a post about a Sleeper acceleration gate of some sort. With protecting their technology, it's logical that the Sleepers disassembled almost all of their stargates, if they even had them. The Sleeper drones could possibly use these jump drives to get to other Sleeper sites in other star systems, or even known space, without the use of wormholes.

Considering all this, I don't think wormholes are even natural in Sleeper systems, or had ever been considered by the Sleepers as a form of interstellar transportation.

DmD666
Interwebs Cooter Explosion
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.06.10 06:22:00 - [17]
 

I was reading over all the salvage descriptions. A lot of them amount to "Just like our stuff, but it somehow does it a thousand times better."

Why is it all so similar?

Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
Posted - 2010.06.10 13:22:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: DmD666
I was reading over all the salvage descriptions. A lot of them amount to "Just like our stuff, but it somehow does it a thousand times better."

Why is it all so similar?

Perhaps we're advancing along the same paths as the Sleepers, just a bit behind. We're almost to the state they were... right before they disappeared. Shocked

Terokone
Posted - 2010.06.10 21:08:00 - [19]
 

Just realized my post on Sleeper acceleration gates might be wrong. But anyway...

My corp and I were in a Talocan site a little bit ago and we found a Talocan acceleration gate as well as a neat little structure:
Disrupted Talocan Polestar
The central piece of this Talocan station is the Polestar, the nerve center of the complex and the heart of Talocan survival. Though dilapidated and unusable, the Polestarís outer hull is breached in many parts. Its propulsion jets and mini-generators are destroyed and decaying. From the burn marks around the propulsion thrusters, this Polestar has been jettisoned many times as a necessary structure for a migrant culture, but in this condition the Polestarís current location will remain its last.

Neat little thing in the description. "...necessary structure for a migrant culture,..."
So, the Talocan were/are migrants. If the Talocan were around when the Sleepers were, then the Talocan could have just been passing through, as it were. With the Sleeper quarantine structures, it could then be assumed (and has been assumed) that the Talocan spread a disease within the Sleeper civilization.

I should go through all the old posts and see about collecting more pieces, since this may have already been posted already.

Citizen Yang
Posted - 2010.06.11 01:37:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Citizen Yang on 11/06/2010 02:06:12
Edited by: Citizen Yang on 11/06/2010 01:45:15
Edited by: Citizen Yang on 11/06/2010 01:44:11
Anoikis is a natural form of programmed cell death; the cell strays too far from its cell-matrix (home) it dies, essentialy because the matrix communicates the cells' purpose. Cancerous cells seem adept at surviving such programming upon dislocation; even to the point of thriving in, and subverting new cell-matrices, for its own independent purpose. Call it a magnificent local adaptation to hostile conditions if you are a bioligist, call it a mutation if you are a host. It seems like capsuleer technology would be an ideal way to circumvent a plague that destroyed its host for roaming.

Is this a general description of, or connected to the Jovian disease?


 

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