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blankseplocked PI Revamp
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AlastarB Frost
Posted - 2010.06.03 22:54:00 - [1]

Yes, i know it is a bit early to talk about PI as only a few have tested it yet on Singularity, but what i have seen there doesnt look like much fun. There have to be changes in the future, and i start this thread to get some input how it may look like.

First of all: The PI System as it is requires a lot of stupid clicking and being online a lot at times that working people can not manage. Dont know what im speaking of? Here an Example:
If you start from basic extracting, you have about 14 extractors and 7 factorys at one planet (for high sec). This times 6 (maximum planet count) means 84 extractors you have to manage. Extractors have uninteruptable cycles of 30min, 5h, 23h or 96h with most efficiency at the shorter cycles. if you want most efficiency, you have to start the 84 extractors every half hour until you collapse. starting them every 5 hours means getting up in the night to do so. even 23 hours mean you have to be online every day at the same time with only a small timeframe to keep the window at this time. Starting the cycles all over every half hour while you play, means a lot of clicking while you could have fun. going up at night to start 5h cycles isnt really what i consider fun. So there has to be a change in my opinion.

What we need is a system that runs even if you dont click it much and that allows you to mange it when you want it. Therefore, i would suggest a system of efficiency factors that you can tune over a longer period. If you dont care, your overall efficency has to go down until you pay some attention. but the management intervals for a carfully set PI has to be something in the range of some days or a week.

What do i mean with efficiency factors? Imagine a theoretical maximum yield of an extractor. For the first factor you could split the capacity of the extractor between harvesting the ressource and hatching it. (For Lifeforms like cattle this would be the balance of just going there and killing some cows and building fences and breeding new ones. killing them gives some output, breeding them and holding them together means that you have some cows to kill tomorrow. For Lava harvesting this would mean extracting the material and using some forcefields to control the magma streams to refill the cavern you extract from. For Heavy Metal Mines this would mean pulling Metal out of the earth or really building tunnels deeper to get to more ressources. You could imagine something for each ressource how investing energy will deplete them slower.) This factor means, for example, if you go 50% Harvesting and 50% hatching, the ressource will deplete very slowly or even grow with the time. (Lets say you start with a ressource that is filled 50% by default, regeneration is based on how much is left. 50% is the natural state. If you grow it, you have more yield in long term as the reg is higher, if you deplete it, you have to buy a new extractor soon, but can go full havest). You can derive 3 basic strategies from this: deplete and look for new spot, use it as it is without depleting it, investing in the spot and going for long term output.

The same can be done with personell, you could derive to factors from it: How long you personell works and how good they are at their job. The personell quality factor is easy: cheap people, less efficiency; better workers, more efficiency. the worktime factor could be divided into three aspects: Work time, education, rest time. Work time is the part that gives you efficency, education means that your personell gets better over time, rest time makes them stay at your factory. You can derive different strategies from this: Slaves work, cheap workers with almost no rest. Exploitation, good workers with no sleep (putting isk in to replace the workers regularly). Building a Paradise, start with cheap workers and educate them with enough rest to make them stay for a long time. Economical, invest in good workers but let them enough rest to make them stay.

AlastarB Frost
Posted - 2010.06.03 23:02:00 - [2]

With this, you could choose a strategy that fits you and then slowly adjust the parameters to get the maximum out of it. As this all is a dynamic system, not caring will waste some of your efficency (there is no need to grow a 100% ressource or educate top skilled workers. If you loose some workers or have harvested too much, you may need to adjust it to grow the thing once again. if you deplete your ressources, either workforce or extraction spot, you have to invest into a new one.)

This is what i expected to see when i saw the tyrannis trailer in the first time. "will you be a tyrant and rule by force or do you want to build a paradise?"

The strategies may also vary for high or nullsec: I would go for long-term strategies in highsec, an maximum yield in nullsec. In high sec you have the time, in nullsec you never know.

What do you think of this?

Jessica Verne
Minute to Midnight
Posted - 2010.06.06 02:56:00 - [3]

Let me get this right. You are complaining because doing the most PI activity that you are allowed to do is "too much work"?

How bout not doing so much?

AlastarB Frost
Posted - 2010.06.09 11:14:00 - [4]

im not complaining about "too much work". I complain about the stupid clicking. What i want is strategy over clicking.

Once the Network is set up, the strategy ends with the current system. its just clicking the stuff over and over. i have 3 planets now, thats about 30 extractors. i know what they do, they do the same thing all the time, but i have to click them.

What i want is a system that consists of a number o variables that need to be adjusted. a system that makes different strategies possible, even after you set up the PI. And i want a system where my clicks really make a difference. Now its the same as "click the red dot a hundret times for your PI to work".

Shir Akeena
Butterfly Effect Alliance
Posted - 2010.06.10 19:48:00 - [5]

Edited by: Shir Akeena on 10/06/2010 19:49:36
Full ack!
The depletion intervals are really weird for people who have a real life. I'm missing depletion intervals of 2h and 8h and 12h.
Or even better: Let us set the depletion timer ourselves from 1h to 96h. Then we can plan the production conviniently as we need it.
Or isn't EVE supposed to be convinient?

Spy Gamer
Posted - 2010.06.10 21:43:00 - [6]

Eve isnt supposed to be convient eve just simply IS

Posted - 2010.06.10 22:55:00 - [7]

Obviously CCP has thought about this and they are counting on people using fewer resources so everyone can get a shot at PI.

But you bring up a good point which is maintenance. with 40+ extractors you will give yourself carpal tunnel. A better mechanic would be AUTO repeat or some form of industrial battery that you need to install to power the extractors. I don't understand why the resource runs out and is available again without moving. It would make more sense if the factories had some form of fuel associated with them which runs out and needs to be replenished IN THE COMMAND center. Right now the command center is pretty useless for storage since the launch pad can hold 10k m3 why bother with command center routing.

Sylas Modean
Posted - 2010.06.10 23:58:00 - [8]

One improvement on PI that I would like to see is the option to upgrade command centers, extractors, processors and storage facilities. We can currently upgrade links to handle a greater volume of goods, so naturally, why not the ability to upgrade your buildings so that the link upgrades aren't just required for umteen million storage-processor transfers?

AlastarB Frost
Posted - 2010.06.12 10:27:00 - [9]

just an auto-repeat for the cycles would make the whole system useless. everyone would set an auto-repeat for the best cycle and thats it. even a queue for the cycles would render the whole system useless, as everyone would set some of the best cycles and one waiting cycle at the end. the whole cycle reclicking mechanic needs to be replaced. and i suggest some sort of adjustment system for this wich needs more or less regular caring.

The upgrade for command centers and extractors are a valid point. for extractors this would be nice to adjust them to have similar outputs for all ressources in more complex networks. now its just a whole extractor or no extractor. giving them levels would give a bit more control. i also would suggest build-times. Now it is just set and cycle. if you introduce upgrades to buildings, wich i like for the long term strategies, i would give build times to the buildings and upgrades. the you have to choose: install and use or invest some time for upgrades and then use with even better results.

Posted - 2010.06.12 10:41:00 - [10]

that pointless clicking is really stupid, monkey can do it, doubleclick for 10 minutes straight how dumb is that...

Instead have the extractors just keep on extracting for a month... first day gives good rate and then the site slowly depletes untill at the end of the month you only gain 1% of the original extract rate. You could update the extractors anytime you wanted to get them back to full efficiency.

Another way to remove the dumbness would be to require players to constantly adjust the position of the extractors. 4 days of extracting 1 spot would dry it and you'd have to move the extractor 50km away. They'd have to be movable tho or return some isk when you destroy but anyway.

Lex Striker
Posted - 2010.06.12 11:38:00 - [11]

I would like to agree with two things here. The first is the ability to upgrade the PI Command Centers instead of having to tear down your whole complex to build from scratch as one has to do now. The second is the ability to set all Extractors to extract at the same speed for the whole planet or by mineral type with one action.

Party Scout
Posted - 2010.06.12 13:07:00 - [12]

OP is right... Mindless and pointless clicking is stupid for a modern game.

Extractors should have adjustable cycles. You can set the time you want, and it calculates the yield based on that (shorter cycles, more yield). It's just a mathematical formula, I'm sure EVE can handle that.

Also, you should be able to set all your extractors at the same time, and be able to cancel current cycles as well and change the cycle time. People will setup cycles depending on their available playtime, not the yield, so fixed times is kind of stupid. Not being able to cancel cycles is also stupid. PI should be strategic, calculating, not a farmville clickfest.

God... CCP can come out with some good ideas (PI base setup and all that is interesting), and then mess it up with craptastic UI and mechanics (extractor cycles and functionality sucks balls).


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